Wednesday, December 30, 2009

Chofetz Chaim accused of lashon harah

13 comments :

  1. As a child I grew up learning that the Chafetz Chayim was an angle among monkeys. It came as a shock to me years later that the Chofetz Chayim referred to the Yevsektsia (Jewish Communists) as descendants of Amalek and called rav Kook Kook-Shmok.

    The moderator of frumteens.com has all those nibbul peh quotes from the chofetz Chayim. (all against communists and Mizrachi). the FrumTeen moderator hats Modern orthodoxy as much as Tropper does.

    While the latter above obviously refers to the Yevsektsia , he does not curse them

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  2. Monsey,
    I just don't know what to do with you. When you were a kid, you thought that the Chafetz was a tzaddik. Meaning that he would never call anti-religious communists, (the fine people that turned in their coreligionists for Siberian exile and sometimes worse), decedents of Amalek. And that is a terrible aveira because... why? Someone's feelings might be hurt, chas v'shalom? If you heard that he said some bad things about say, JC, would you also be so disallusioned? And you are the paragon of sensitivity who would never say anything bad about another, Jew or group of Jews (like baalei t'shuvah)?

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  3. On Issue of the Chofetz Chaim and Rav Kook, please see these posts:

    http://www.emet.blog-city.com/letter_from_the_son_in_law_of_the_chofetz_chaim_to_rav_kook_.htm

    http://www.emet.blog-city.com/the_relationship_between_rkook_and_the_chofetz_chaim__part_2.htm

    Also see:

    http://www.emet.blog-city.com/the_view_of_the_chazon_ish_on_rav_kook_another_perspective.htm

    http://www.emet.blog-city.com/kooksonnenfeld1.htm

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  4. Will the Real Monsey "Tzadik" please stand upNovember 9, 2009 at 10:19 AM

    Are you only anti-Tropper because of a larger anti-frum agenda where Tropper is one of the chess pieces? The bloggers that are anti-Torah umitzvos do this and you frequent their blogs which over there you take a more anti-religious tone than you do here, coupled with your crude and pruste jokes that this blog would never tolerate.

    The Chofetz Chaim only said the Communists are Amalek in the name of Rishonim who say that anyone who fights against Torah it is because they are from Amalek. The Chofetz Chaim held that they descended from Amalekim mamash who snuck into the Jewish nation from the Erev Rav. R' Elchonon Wasserman disagreed and understands the Rishonim that they are gilgulim from Amalek.

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  5. ...The bloggers that are anti-Torah umitzvos do this and you frequent their blogs...

    So what are YOU doing there ?

    I do not think Miley is anti-Torah umitzvos, but it is probably bitul zman for you as well

    I know the Chofetz Chayim has sources to back him up saying it, it just something that is surprising coming from someone who dedicated his whole life to shmiras halason. However, nothing will surprise me about rabbi Yaakov Emeden who could write the way drunkard sailor speaks…. His autobiography Megillat Sefer ( which was never published) is XXX rated and if it will be published one day I can see another ban.

    This is when Tropper gets into the picture, when someone trys to portray a godol as human being he gets into his Roni persona and tries to create another ban.

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  6. Will the Real Monsey "Tzadik" please stand upDecember 30, 2009 at 3:44 PM

    You know exactly which blogs I mean. The two biggest sonei Yisroel around, Shmarya & Kelsey.

    And you have some nerve using "drunken sailor" in the same sentence as R' Yaakov Emden.

    Be very careful about being mevazeh the Achronim.

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  7. Will the Real Monsey "Tzadik" please stand upDecember 30, 2009 at 3:48 PM

    "I know the Chofetz Chayim has sources to back him up saying it, it just something that is surprising coming from someone who dedicated his whole life to shmiras halason."

    Monsey Hedyot has no idea of when lashon harah is appropriate?

    I think not. I think his criticism of the Chofetz Chaim for quoting Rishonim is staged.

    His hero, the apikoros blogger Shmarya, pulls this stunt all the time where he twists around hilchos lashon harah to make frum Jews and Chofetz Chaim himself look bad.

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  8. Ah, the games people play.

    What constitutes loshon harah is well known and understood. Most people instinctively know when it is or isn't appropriate to engage in conversations that need to be had. We know what is gossip and we know when to warn others of possible harm of all kinds. That has never been the issues.

    The real issue is a culture of pilpul, where we seek to justify a particular point of view to satisfy our own needs. It really is that simple.

    For example, this discussion about the Chofetz Chaim is most illuminating.

    Do any of us understand the culture and society the CC lived in? How many of us understand the dangers of communism in the same way he did? To whom were his remarks directed and why? The same questions apply to his other conversations. What can be said for certain is that his remarks did not come from his being a kannoi. We cannot know the circumstances and context of his words because we cannot know the circumstances and context of his time.

    Was the Chofetz Chaim always right in everything he did on this earth? Was he perfect? How do you think he would answer that question? Are any of us perfect?

    As long as we idealize gdolim and so on, we enable our own shortcomings. Torah and bina are tools with which we must lean to make our own decisions- that is the whole point. 'I'm just following so and so' is not what a healthy person says.

    We are SUPPOSED to struggle. We are SUPPOSED to agonize and even at times second guess ourselves. The Rebbono Shel Olam takes pride in our successes to be sure. He treasures our failures along the way even more, because in facing and overcoming our failures, we have shown that we are indeed worthy to be BeTzelem Elokim. We are not meant to become perfect in our struggle and search for emunah, bitachon and meaning - we are meant to try and overcome the limitations, imperfections and obstacles we face along the way.

    That applies to all of us. ALL.

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  9. The Chofetz Chaim was certainly correct in his apt description of communists and zionists.

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  10. It's interesting that when people address pathologies in the frum world, they are told that discussing Kolko, Tropper et al is LH. Yet when the icon of the LH fetishists, the Chofetz Chaim, has bad stuff to say about Zionists, well then, we're told that LH is permissible in some cases.

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  11. The last comment could only have been made by someone knowledgeable of Hilchos Loshon Hora

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  12. ...someone knowledgeable of Hilchos Loshon Hora, better than the Chofetz Chaim.

    Which obviously means not.

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  13. If you know anything about Ronnie Schreiber from Detroit, it is not surprising.

    He was the guy behind the scam with UOJ's baseball caps, taking people's money without delivering the hats.

    And he is the same guy who posts his krum boych sevoros all over the internet criticizing gedolim who he often refers to as "gedoyoyolim" and characterizing R' Tovya Singer as an unsavory character.

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