Perhaps the most pressing issue at present is when is R' Tropper going to publicly acknowledge and apoligze for this disgusting state of affairs? Is there anyone who can persuade him of the urgency of making a public statement? If he is reading this blog - please, please bite the bullet and start the process of cure.
It is important to note that when I offered my services today to R' Tropper in minimizing the damage he responded with a thank you. He clearly is functioning. But he needs to act soon - as do the gedolim who were associated with him. This gigantic train wreck is not going to disappear by ignorning it.
The silence is deafening.
I do not think a public statement would help him...
ReplyDeleteWhat do you want him to say: "I confess I did it, I promise not to do it any more" and everything will be forgotten and forgiven?
So I think he should loose his "Rabbi license" or whatever this is called, and I think no statement, no apology should be able to change this.
Rabbi Eidenson ,well said , lets hope he heeds your advise, you are truly guiding this in the right direction in light of the lack of leadership from all the old supporters rabbis and friends of LT
ReplyDeleteTropper's rebbe is Rav Scheinberg who covered up the Kolko scandal ad keday kach that he told the molested children that Kolko was not oyver issurim when he touched them.
ReplyDeleteAnd at the behest of Margolies, Rav Scheinberg interfered with batei din of the Debriciner Rov and others, pressuring them to close down the Kolko dinei Torah before they finished.
All these things can be verified with whoever was involved with the batei din in the 1980s, the talmidim of R' Avigdor Miller who were given a tzavoah to never stop fighting Kolko and the askan R' Eli Greenwald who tried to convene a new beis din a few years ago until he was threatened by Margulies and Rabbi Belsky.
Tropper's associates in the rabbonus meanwhile may be too ashamed to come clean, fearing they will be exposed for the large sums of money they took to be machshir devorim assurim. And yes they did do that. Rav Bloch has said so publicly, a tape of which was sold in the Lakewood yeshiva.
While i do not know exactly what should be accompanied with his tesvhua, how he can do some correction to what he did (like gezela of rabim), but otoh, there is a level of mitzva of teshuva that is requested from every jew, i do not know how to go about. But yes, maybe a public statement of remorse with his demand that the organization be disbanded immediately may be a small teshuvat hamishkal where he would an instrument to the destruction of the organization that he created.
ReplyDeleteAnd at the same time (or maybe more important - because Lt is a yochid albeit an important on this matter-) it might even more important to ALL AND EVERY RABBI who had an official capacity at ejf to renounce his membership and demand that the organization be disbanded (and maybe at another time time with some of the same or better different leadership and with new precautions, and with great caution and with transparency and with gedoyley haposkeim and soney betza on top, maybe they should make a new one. but NOW it is time to say GOOD RIDDANCE TO THIS ORGANIZATION, TO BE MEKAYEM UVIARTA HARAH MIKIRBECHA!
His crocodile toygt gornisht. To say he is sorry he created a chillul hashem toygt gornisht. Now if he truly confesses everythying, except the names of his victims who were yechidim, that would impress me. Since he his many sins include bullying rabbonim into compromising themselves, his must speak to that. Otherwise it will be like all those molester confessions, "I am sorry I was misunderstood that one time, and besides the kid set me up and their family is not so frum."
ReplyDeleteRabbi Eidensohn. When you call for an apology do you mean lite or real?
Choshuver Rabbonim and Roshey Yeshivot1
ReplyDeleteDo you really think that you can function on a very basic level to provide gerut for those who need at this juncture?
Think for a second: will any serious prospect who wants a "universal" standard and acceptance by all, go tou?
And even if he does: then you should think, why would he be/she be going to you, is it because you will cut more corners to attract more candidates?
And what good will you be doing to them anyway: After all you already know that most people will look down at theconverts performed under your services and they will view them as the converts of the "pimp" (i'm sorry for using such crude language, but we need to call a spade a spade) organization?
And how do you think that the press the yiddishe, frum and non frume and lehavdil the non jewish press will look at this when they write about your organization?
Please all of you: Get REAL! It might be difficult for the convenience the organization gave to some organizations (i will not be choshed you for getting money for "personal" uses), but at the end YOU WILL BE NO DOING NO FAVOR FOR THE ORGANIZATION AND NEITHER FOR YOU! FOR EVERYONE WILL POINT FINGERS AT YOU AND SAY: YOU SEE THAT "YESHIVA", YOU KNOW WHERE THEY GET THE MONEY FROM? FROM THE "PIMPS"! (SORRY AGAIN FOR THE CRUDE LANGUAGE) AND WILL YOUR TALMIDIM SAY AND THINK ABOUT YOU? AND IMPACT WILL IT HAVE FOR THEIR YIRAS HASHEM?
SO MANY QUESTIONS AND MUCH MUCH MORE: PLEASE FOR YOUR'S AND EVERYONE'S SAKE MAKE A KIDDUSH HASHEM BORABIM! AND SAY BYE BYE TO THIS ORGANIZATION AND WITH G-D'S HELP, HASHEM WILL HELP ALL OUR NEEDS (PERSONAL AND OUR YESHIVOT AND ISTITUIONS) AND ALSO THE CONVERSION PROBLEM WITH TRUE AND KOSHER MEANS.
AND AS RAV EIDENSOHN, WHO WAS RIGHT FOR SO LONG ON THIS ISSUE Says, ACT SOON!
And perhaps,maybe someone has some connections iwth Mr. Tom Kaplan and explains to him the dire need to disband this organization and find some new ways, kosher ways, to make something else that will help jewish continuity. He is someone who seems really to be sincere and should have no motive other than to help, somaybe he can help us all in this.
ReplyDeleteRav Eidensohn, I fear that you might not know what you are getting into. The Ramban explains the purpose of onshim that the chotay will really want to do teshuva. But I don't believe the Ramban was speaking about dangerous sociopaths. If the rumors are correct, Tropper was pushed out of Ohr Sameach for acting improperly with the opposite sex. This would not sound like someone who is capable of learning a lesson.
ReplyDeleteYou could wind up being used by this degenerate who has a long history of manipulating others.
It's such a shame that everything has come to this point of such a great chillul Hashem.
ReplyDeleteYou guys are missing the issue! the issue is not Tropper ! the issue is how the so called godols of the litvish branch of ultra-orthodoxy got fooled by him. I would not say corrupted by him!
ReplyDeleteAll those people who received money from him, appeared in his conferences, show up in his simcha and kept quiet when Tropper was abusing converts, yesomim and alamanos and other rabbis.
They are even worst than the people who sat and kept quiet when Bar-Kamtza was humiliated.
They are the ones who should do teshuva
How's this for a start as a statement by Tropper:
ReplyDeleteAs we say on Yom Kippur, my sins are too great to list. I did many things wrong and have caused many people to suffer. I have now been shocked into realizing just how far off the proper track I have gone. I am devastated by my actions and my current state and will be dedicating the next stage of my life to changing myself and trying to heal the wounds I have caused. I pray that Hashem have mercy on all the people I have impacted negatively including those who trusted me but faced betrayal of that trust, my family, and me.
http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Conversion+controversy+pits+against/2363665/story.html
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Rabbi Bulka is on the Rabbanut's black list. He does have some rather controversial hashkofos and it could explain why he is dropping out of doing gerus himself.
Rabbi Barry Freundel, the RCA's head rabbi for conversions, was on Zev Brenner's show last night.
ReplyDeleteBrenner and Freundel managed to mention Eternal Jewish Family without mentioning much of anything about the scandal.
Freundel also downplayed the Israeli chief rabbis role in American conversions.
A large number of callers challenged Freundel over the RCA's policy that declares Chabad messianism non-kosher. Freundel explained the RCA's policy but also said it did not reflect his personal view – whatever that view may be.
The irony is, Chabad converts who believe the late Menachem Mendel Schneerson is the messiah (and/or divine) are accepted by Israel's chief rabbis, but Modern Orthodox converts whose conversions were done before the RCA surrendered to the Israeli chief rabbis demands had their conversions challenged.
Leib Tropper's conversions were automatically valid. Is that still the case?
http://www.jewishideas.org/min-hamuvhar/conversion-judaism-halakha-hashkafa-and-histori
ReplyDeleteMarc Angel (and Avi Weiss) dropped out of the RCA when they agreed with the Rabbanut that his conversions did not follow halacha.
http://www.jewishideas.org/min-hamuvhar/welcoming-chueta-back-his-jewishness
ReplyDeleteAnd if you needed any more proof that Shavei Yisrael is improperly doing outreach to convert Marranos, Marc Angel gives them a krumma "psak" that they are wasting effort since in his view that are already Jewish without needing even gerus lechumrah.
Morai veRabosi , a shvach vtoidoh to the Borai Kol Ailomim that we have witnessed amazing miricles before our own eyes. Hashem is ruling his world and wants the Jewish people to remain holy. If tropper wants to do tchuvah than Hashem will help him, if not he will have to be megalgel,or find his own tikunim , ultimately its all for the best, and Haskocha Protis , we do our hishtadlus, daven and stay pure and all will be well. Ashrenu
ReplyDeleteRav Eidensohn, if the tapes would not have been released on the net, and would only have been heard in Chadrei Chaderim, would you have asked for the same Cheshbon Nefesh? In other words, do you ask this on behalf of the truth, or are you seeking damage control for the system?
ReplyDeleteLeave it to Hakodesh Baruch Hu as to his tchuvah- in the meantime continue fighting on. When is the Bedatz steping in
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nydailynews.com/archives/gossip/1999/01/06/1999-01-06_publishers_open_vault_for_to.html
ReplyDeleteJust what we gossip columnists needed, a bunch of prominent New Yorkers sitting in a weekly class that teaches them how not to gossip.
Think I'm kidding? For the last few years on Tuesday nights, Rabbi Leib Tropper of the Rockland County yeshiva Kol Yaakov, has been leading a class in Loshon Hora, the laws pertaining to gossip.
The classes are held in the midtown Manhattan offices of Tropper's sister-in-law, music business publicist Susan Blond. Others who regularly take part include author Lillian Glass, opera singer Steven Goldstein, socialite Carol Roaman, attorneys Michael Feiner and Joseph Rokacz, investment banker David Pullman, antique dealer Sheila Britz and music publisher Evan Lamberg.
"We are taught to shut our ears to gossip and never to embarrass anyone," says Blond, who tells me that gossip in the Torah "is compared to killing.
"Even if it's good gossip, it's evil," says Blond, who admits that following these teachings can be especially difficult for someone in her line of work.
"I'm not even supposed to use superlatives," she says.
Rav Eidensohn, I 110% agree with Archie Bunker, do not be fooled by Tropper and become his enabler!! I did this many years ago and fell for his ACTING, yes ACTING, he is a professional actor worthy of an Oscar. He can tell you one thing to your face and the next second, stab you in the back. DO not be fooled, Tropper knows a lot of Torah, he is very famous for his Dovid Hamelech speeches, about How Dovid Hamelech came forward and cried "Chotosi" Now that tropper has "sunk in the mire of the shadowy depths" (Tehillim 69:3)." He will play the chess game, If it suits him, he will apologize, but not because he is truly sorry, I saw tropper over many years manipulate and pay female baal tshuva's (I know for a fact that the woman from Houston is not the 1st, in fact she is the 3rd that I know of, she is the 1st though to tape him) who he took under his wing, do not for a moment think that the woman from Houston is the first, his 1st wife left him for a reason. This whole episode can show you how SELFISH tropper is, he didn't care about his Yeshiva which he disgraced, he didnt care about his 2nd family (HE WAS PLANNING SEXCPADES during his sons wedding plans!! as can be heard on the tape) He didn't care about his friends and most of all he didn't care for the Torah. Do not get me wrong, many people deserve a 2nd chance, not tropper. You are dealing with a 100% sociopath here, and he will use you and play you like a violin just to try and resurrect the tiny morsels left of his name. If you would like more information as to how manipulative this menuval is feel free to e-mail me at TropperStoppers@gmail.com
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bethshalomnj.org/gpage5.html
ReplyDeleteOur Rabbi, Rabbi David Senter is guided by the standards and practices of the Conservative Movement
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/entertainment/1998/08/01/1998-08-01_a_glatt_to_cheer_about___dog.html
Senter, 37, is an ordained rabbi who runs the kosher concession stands at Shea and Yankee stadiums.
Though strangers often quiz Senter about his career choice, those who knew him as a student at the Kol Yakkov Torah Center in Monsey, Rockland County, said he was bitten by the entrepreneurial bug at an early age.
"I saw him really wanting to be creative in business," said Rabbi Leib Tropper, one of Senter's teachers.
Star-K seal of approval (Heinemann is also an EJF-affiliated dayan)
you are realy obssesed with this tropper guy,i wonder why?
ReplyDeletewhy you? and by the way who are you?why should this tropper pimp listen to you?
unless you have something in common with him
I don't think there's anything Tropper could possibly do that would make up for all the lives he's personally ruined - there's blood, metaphorically speaking, on his hands, both of sincere men and women who wanted an orthodox conversion that he claimed only his "Chief Rabbinate Approved" program could provide, and of sincere people born Jewish who were turned off by his powermongering and treatment of their relatives and friends who wanted a "universally recognized" conversion. What a joke - now everyone associated with his program will be suspected of having traded sexual favors for their conversion (if female) or of receiving them (if male). He claimed their "other" conversions were not valid, and in turn gave them...another invalid conversion. The cost to Judaism and to the individuals is simply too high - Tropper can NEVER adequately atone for the damage he has done.
ReplyDeleteChazal frown on public confession of sin as brazen (Berakhot 34b).
ReplyDelete"Judaism does not recognize confession of personal sin to a religious figure as part of the process of sin and repentance. There is no designated authority to whom one can confess sins; sins are confessed privately, in prayer, before God.
Nor does Judaism recognize penance as a necessary part of the process of sin and repentance. Although the practice of penances did exist in Jewish life for part of the Middle Ages, largely under Christian influence, this was never formalized into classic rabbinic theology and practice. Further, there is no Rabbinic authority who can prescribe penances, either of a therapeutic or a ritual kind; rather, spiritual discipline in the presence of sin is undertaken voluntarily, by individuals so inclined, sometimes after consultation with a Rabbi."
Dr. David R. Blumenthal, Emory University.
See:
* M. Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, "Hilkhos Teshuva," trans. and comm., E. Touger (New York and Jerusalem, Moznaim Publishing: 1987). The text of Maimonides' "Laws of Repentance" needs to be read with a commentary.
* J. Soloveitchik, On Repentance, ed. P. Peli (New York: Paulist Press, 1984).
* A. Steinsaltz, Teshuva (New York: Free Press, 1987).
* Y. Abramowitz, Hechal ha-Teshuva (Hebrew), (Bnai Brak: Netsah Press, 5721).
Rav Eidensohn, I saw this comment at another blog. I think it makes an important point about how EJF was discussed not just recently (since the scandal), but over the past couple of years:
ReplyDelete"Others in the blogosphere have for years now been saying similar things about Tropper's character, but about different incidents. And yet this is the man with whom some of the most eminent Talmidei Chachamim of our generation chose to ally themselves, and if they had a complaint about him it was over promoting gerut, not over the cruelty and abuse of power."
I too feel this way, though I am not the author of the comment. The nature and focus of the conversation has bothered me for a very long time. The scandal to me is nearly pointless, an evil that is relatively small when compared to the vast cruelty that has been perpetrated over the course of so many years, with the explicit support of some great men who are considered gedolim, while other gedolim never saw fit to confront that cruelty directly or explicitly.
For consideration by all.
how do you let people say such geferlicheh stuff about r chaim pinchos????!!??
ReplyDeleteRight under the announcement from R' Reuvein Feinstein on the EJF website that he is taking over, the public is told to call a woman at a 917 cellphone number if they have any questions.
ReplyDeleteThe woman is another blonde shiksa from Texas (and evidently not the one that Tropper derides on the recording as being short & ugly with a "moustache"). Does R' Reuvein have any idea how long she & Tropper might go back?
This is a very sophisticated firm that must cost a lot of money. They are stacked with the likes of senior correspondents from CBS News, Washington Post, etc.
http://www.pstrategies.com/index.php/bios/consulting/erin-hickman-gentry.htm
Erin Hickman Gentry
Director 512.474.8848
512.474.0120
98 San Jacinto Blvd
Suite 1200
Austin, Texas 78701
Her work with Public Strategies
Erin Hickman Gentry brings a decade of experience in messaging, media relations and campaign coordination for a variety of Public Strategies’ clients. Her work for the firm has encompassed a variety of sectors including investment banking, conservation, public company auditing, healthcare and energy and natural resources.
Gentry’s work spans from local campaigns designed to influence members of a state legislature to managing million-dollar clients engaged in national image enhancement campaigns.
Her earlier work
Before joining Public Strategies, Gentry was spokeswoman for the Office of Thrift Supervision at the U.S. Treasury Department, the primary regulator of the $7 trillion thrift industry. She communicated agency policies and enforcement actions to media, trade groups, and industry, and provided strategic media counsel to senior agency officials.
Before joining the Treasury Department, Gentry worked as an account manager at Stevens Reed Curcio & Potholm, a media-consulting firm that produced winning television and radio advertisements for political candidates. Gentry wrote and produced campaign advertisements for political candidates and referendums, winning a “Pollie” award in 2002 for her work on a congressional race in New Hampshire.
Kudos to Rav Eidensohn for his leadership and hard work, as well as to some of the Vaadim/rabbonim who sniffed this out and formed a coalition even in advance of the infamous Mayflower Hotel (line up for your money) convention in Washington DC. In particular, the Washington Vaad refused to participate in the convention,and led the way against participation by contacting gedolim and asking them not to come. Let geurus stay with responsible rabbonim, where it has always been for centuries....
ReplyDeleteI would like to hear the Gedolim say Yishar Koach to those who helped expose the evil.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you still calling this guy "Rabbi" Tropper? Surely anan saadi that whoever gave him smicha has already cancelled it?
ReplyDeleteWhile talking about rehabilitation tropper, it is also important to pressure the EJF, from the juniors there to the seniors there, the first thing they have to do is to condemn the actions of tropper and distance themselves as much as they can from any connection to him. Only like this will the public gain any confidence in a future reorganization of the institution. Even Rabbi Blum could voice himself, unless he is also scared of losing his position. If this is the case then the institution will carry the stain of tropper for ever. It also has to be crystal clear to the public that tropper is not going to make any type of comeback.( I wonder if anyone else there can sign the checks at present, I very much doubt it, knowing his like of total control)
ReplyDeleteYiyashre kochecha to commentator Yerachmiel Kahn. I agree 100%.
ReplyDeleteThe larger issue is that not only have our leaders not been disturbed by aligning themsleves with someone who abuses his power, but they flock to him.
Therefore, even with Tropper gone, the culture of using power abusively remains.
Have you seen how Vosizneias handels the story? They never mention even once what it is all about...
ReplyDeleteAt least, the poster "tze menuval" was short and to the point, without giving unnecessary details about the woman involved.
http://www.vosizneias.com/44907/2009/12/14/suffern-ny-noted-rabbi-abruptly-resigns-from-ejf-famous-organization-for-conversions/