Friday, November 21, 2014

Practical question: Should I not present the Torah viewpoint because of threats of violence?


Update:see How Debbie Gross "saved" me from being abused at the Convention

I just received this letter from the organizer of the Conference on Abuse where I will be speaking at the beginning of December in Jerusalem. I replied that I still plan to show up. My view on these matters is  the mainstream view of the majority of poskim - no chumros.  Any thoughts?


Rabbi Eidensohn
Shalom u’vracha.
I am writing you concerning your email of a few weeks ago as to whether we will have some form of bodyguards at the conference to protect the speakers against “hecklers”.  Unfortunately, we do not have any funds or way to provide any form of protection to the speaker.  In these difficult security times in Jerusalem, we are hoping just to stay safe from the arab terrorists who seem to be everywhere. 

I would like to alert you to the fact that we have been receiving numerous emails over the past week, from agunot and their families concerning your views and blogs about agunot and the use of the internet.  These emails have been very aggressive and threatening.  I would like to alert you to this fact so that you can reevaluate whether you are prepared both emotionally and physically to deal with what seems to be a large amount of angry participants who are specifically coming to the conference to denounce you and your views.  I am taking their anger quite seriously and relaying such to you.  I hope that you are prepared to deal with their anger and aggression.  I would like you to take all of this into consideration prior to coming to the conference.  I will certainly understand should you decide that this is not the right platform for you at this time.

12 comments :

  1. Agunot are right in confronting you, though not in threatening bodily harm (if they did). They are also right in pointing out your hypocrisy when you speak at conference about abuse, since you stance (no possibility for a wife to leave a marriage, unlimited possiblities for the husband to extort her) promotes domestic abuse.

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  2. Torah and Daas Torah rules! Viva Torah! Those Epsteins and their Kalgasim
    have failed, and will fail all over again together with their mamzer factories.
    Ayin tachas ayin, as they change tactics from koach hazroa to cherev pifiyos,
    v'ein kochom ela befeh, so shall we. We can recruit all those that are concerned
    against the mechablim bakromim, and spit them out from amongst us! Torah MiSinai
    is for free and for all, you cannot buy it out for no money, not even for a
    hundred thou$. Vezos hatotorah lo tehei mechulefes! If they want to voice their
    opinion, let them get their own forum, there won't be any stom piyot.
    Umidechotzuf kulay hay, shma minah demamzer hu. Horachaman hu yokim lanu et
    Sukat Dovid, Dovid Melech Yisrael chai vekayam! Viva Melech Yisrael. Velo yirbu
    mamzerim beYisrael od. He is the voice for the broken and abused husbands,
    broken and abused children. Inflicting such pain on umshildige neshomos is
    EXTORTION!



    And now to viva. Al tomar i efshi be'chazir, efshi, ela sheHatorah osro,
    kein hadovor hahi. Not all people are created equal, some are more equal. Not
    all gittin are equal, just because she woke up one day and decided to leave and
    break up a family, e.g. the grass is greener on the other side, nosno eineho
    beachar, now that is ABUSE! Making lebedige yesoimim from her own children, that
    is EXTORTION! Yes, there are legit cases, legit ways and means when a get is
    called for, bederech haTorah, and YOU do NOT make up the rules, nor the
    epsteins, nor their strong men, nor Karate chops, nor their Electric
    prods, Fershteist! Viva yimshol bah, Viva Torah, Viva rules! V'ein lehoshiv
    oleho, Kappish!

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  3. Is the conference about abuse rather than agunot? And are the threats coming from those connected with agunot, rather than abuse?

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  4. fedupwithcorruptrabbisNovember 21, 2014 at 2:51 PM

    DT, you must stand strong against these feminists. I fully sympathize with true Agunot, but the matter today is spun so out of control that every woman who tortures her ex in civil court or makes problems with child visitations and later wants her GET ,HAS BROUGHT HER OWN FATE ON HER HEAD! You must understand that the feminist movement today works in the shadows. They keep alive the old stereotype that THE WOMAN IS THE WEAK VICTIM, but make no mistake , in many cases today, their recalcitrant and aggressive behaviors made it difficult for them to receive a GET. This is a generation where the Torah has been trampeled upon and the truth has been securely hidden. Vicious anti-man propaganda is everywhere to be found. My opinion is stay strong! The poskim say that a true Chilul Hashem is when a Jew doesnt stand up to uphold the Torah and Halocho. Chazak Veemotz, dont be afraid! This is exactly the same ORA tactics that are used against men! They call up the man before their rallies to notify them of the upcoming rallies to instill fear inside them. Whoever emailed you or wrote to you is likely an ORA representative as their fingerprints appear all over this. Good Luck and dont let the sheker intimidate the EMES!!!!

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  5. please give details where & when [& will there be a live hookup to to your blogspot]

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  6. I am furious about this. No, not because people are angry at my brother, but why are they angry at him and not me? He is not the only one in the world who believes the Shulchan Aruch when it says that a coerced GET is invalid. Let the other people also get some attention. If they think I am not worthy of their attention, let them go to my blog www.torahhalacha.blogspot.com. My blog is almost exclusively about coerced Gittin and the halacha of Gittin. So why give my brother all of the attention? And if they also like attention, well, if they do show up and make trouble, I will make sure to give them some attention in my blog bli neder.

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  7. Tofedupwithcorruptrabbis - you are quite right - A true Chilul Hashem is when a Jew doesnot stand up to uphold the Torah and Holocho. Chazak Veemotz dont be afraid. This includes women such as Beth Alexander and other victims of abuse domestic and otherwise who stand up to their abusers and fight for their rights and their children. After all isn't it even more abuse is to take a woman's chidlren off her and make a mess of them and then try to shut her up when she fights for them as a true mother.

    “If you do not tell the truth about yourself you cannot tell
    it about other people”

    Virginia Woolf

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  8. Thank you for not acceding this vicious and horrendous threat made by those who are afraid of a person who sees abuse for what it is - abuse. And by the same token, due to the seriousness you give to abuse, you will not allow the term "abuse" to be hijacked and really just be used as a tool for "social change" or any other cause some thug may have thought up.


    When we use "abuse" for other proposes, the people who really suffer are those who are abused and those who are on their way to be abused. How dare people be so selfish and vicious in their attempt to make themselves "meaningful" and push their perverted agenda?!

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  9. "Viva Agunot" - Your blogging name actually expresses the true methodology of the "agunot" feminists and their organizations such as the YU based ORA group:

    1. Encourage Jewish women to rebel against their husbands, causing divorces and family destruction.
    2. Create as many fake "agunot" as possible by falsely defining any woman who demands a GET as an "agunah".
    3. Create a whole feminist political movement around these fake "agunot" .
    4. Brainwash and manipulate the fake "agunot" so that they believe they are victims of their husbands and misogynist rabbis, and convince them they are being rescued by the "agunot" movement.
    5. Encourage divorcing Jewish women to engage in all manner of legal warfare in civil courts, including denying fathers parenting time.
    6. Engage in massive PR campaigns to viciously ostracize all Jewish husbands with Torah values (who seek to maintain their families) as evil, recalcitrant men.
    7. Harass, threaten, and intimidate any men or rabbis who oppose the feminist "agunot" movement.

    Good job! Viva Agunot!

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  10. I think there are several issues here. I will offer my perspective on each one, and give you some background:

    1. Is anything really brewing or is this merely an effort to silence you?
    I think it’s unlikely that there will be any groundswell of support for these loonies, and no much will happen. I guess it’s primarily an attempt by a few people, writing under assumed names, to intimidate. If that’s the case, backing down will empower them.

    2. Will it distract from the event, its purpose, and your message?
    If it you are really concerned that it will, perhaps it is unfair to the sponsors and participants to undermine the event. I’m not sure that this will be anything more that a small sideshow, at best, and it will not seriously derail the event or your presentation.

    3. Is your personal safety at risk?
    Only you can decide this. If you have any concern, don’t go. But I would issue a statement stating something like “I regret that due to professional ‘agunah’ making direct personal threats to my safety, I have been compelled to withdraw from this conference. My long record of standing up for victims of every age and gender speaks for itself, it is unfortunate that people with personal agendas unrelated to truth, justice, or halachah have stooped to this low level.”

    4. Is your reputation at risk?
    If anything, it can only gain from any confrontation. “There’s no such thing as bad publicity” and “Nothing sells like controversy” may be hackneyed clichés, but they are true.

    Some background:

    Close to 30 years ago, the “Agunah goons” threatened to storm the Agudah Convention. The decision was made not to confront them and simply allow them to pass in through one door of the convention hall and out another – both on the same side of the room about 20 feet apart – and simply resume the session. 15 ladies showed up, did their little thing and left. It was a disaster for them. I would note that the woman at the head of the marchers was someone I knew. She was as much an agunah as I’m an astronaut. She was a giyores who hadn’t liked like the beis din’s psak regarding the terms of settlement, so she refused to accept the get and sued the beis din in secular court (where she lost hands down).

    More recently, I believe it was two years ago that the professional “abuse” advocates hit the blogs and had an email campaign to picket and hand out flyers outside the Agudah dinner. About 5 dimwits showed up.

    Same thing happened at the the MTJ dinner last year, where ORA and Dodelson & Co. went to town trying to stage a picket outside. 5 or 10 people, generally ignored.

    Bottom line: My experience has been that the protestors usually end up living aveilim v’chafu’yei rosh, ignored or largely shouted down by the rest of the participants. They then regroup and pat each other on the back for having done such a wonderful job and sit back down in the doorway with their bootle of cheap vodka.

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  11. When you think back at Beth at the time where she had the children (before the court gave the father custody): Michael told her he would withhold a get.

    In this situation, Rav Eidensohn would have supported Michael and helped him to extort custody or more visitation against a get.

    Do you think this is a good idea?

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