The Sun-Sentinel reported: [Jersey Girl forwarded]
Fort Lauderdale, FL - In the legal annals of Broward County and the often furious back-and-forth between people suing one another for supposed lying, swindling, cheating and other misdeeds, this may be a first. The director of one of South Florida's most generous foundations, the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, believes he is the Messiah and has been spending the foundation's millions to bolster his image, a lawsuit filed by his uncle claims.
The alleged Messiah wannabe, Guma Aguiar, dismisses his uncle's assertions as nonsense. If he truly believed he was the savior, he said, he would belong in a mental institution. Aguiar's rabbi says the businessman is exceptionally giving, donating millions to improve the world. "He is a person who has a heart that is not matched by anybody," said Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc of Chabad Lubavitch of Fort Lauderdale. But Aguiar's uncle, Thomas Kaplan, wants a Broward County judge to remove his nephew as director of the foundation created to honor Kaplan's mother, and to which Kaplan says he has contributed more than $40 million. The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, in existence for seven years, handed out nearly $4.9 million in 2006 to causes ranging from Jewish charities to the digging of water wells in Africa, according to the last federal tax return available online.
It's not those gifts Kaplan is objecting to, but to the more than $7 million he says his nephew, 31, doled out last year to advance what the lawsuit calls his "claim that he is the Messiah and to promote his messianic mission."
Kaplan's attorney, Harley Tropin, declined to comment on the case, saying the Jan. 9 lawsuit speaks for itself.
At the root of this unique court action may be a family falling-out over a business deal. Aguiar and Kaplan have dueling lawsuits involving a company they founded, Leor Exploration & Production LLC, which was sold for $2.55 billion after discovering huge natural gas reserves in East Texas. The nephew is demanding an accounting of where the money from the 2007 sale went, saying he is owed at least an additional $17.6 million. The uncle is accusing Aguiar of misappropriating Leor's assets for personal expenses and demanding his nephew pay back nearly $200 million. In an interview, Aguiar said that since the sale of the energy company, he's been dedicated to using his newfound wealth to promote good deeds. Last year alone, he gave more than $30 million to charitable causes, one of his attorneys, Greg Miarecki, said.
As for the Messiah business, Aguiar said he's never told anyone he's the Messiah. He does say, though, that he feels very blessed. "People have said what an amazing accomplishment it was that I started a company at 26 from nothing and built it up to be so successful," Aguiar said. "When I sold the company I gave credit to God."
Aguiar says he was largely responsible for Leor's success, having moved to Houston from Florida at age 26 and immersing himself in the world of oil and gas exploration. Leor ended up tapping into what turned out to a multi-trillion-cubic-foot field of natural gas. In 2007, he was named Executive of the Year by Oil and Gas Investor magazine. While Aguiar portrays his uncle as having a minimal role in the company, Kaplan maintains he guided the business every step of the way. Before Leor, Kaplan already had made millions in the mineral and energy industries. [...]
The alleged Messiah wannabe, Guma Aguiar, dismisses his uncle's assertions as nonsense. If he truly believed he was the savior, he said, he would belong in a mental institution. Aguiar's rabbi says the businessman is exceptionally giving, donating millions to improve the world. "He is a person who has a heart that is not matched by anybody," said Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc of Chabad Lubavitch of Fort Lauderdale. But Aguiar's uncle, Thomas Kaplan, wants a Broward County judge to remove his nephew as director of the foundation created to honor Kaplan's mother, and to which Kaplan says he has contributed more than $40 million. The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, in existence for seven years, handed out nearly $4.9 million in 2006 to causes ranging from Jewish charities to the digging of water wells in Africa, according to the last federal tax return available online.
It's not those gifts Kaplan is objecting to, but to the more than $7 million he says his nephew, 31, doled out last year to advance what the lawsuit calls his "claim that he is the Messiah and to promote his messianic mission."
Kaplan's attorney, Harley Tropin, declined to comment on the case, saying the Jan. 9 lawsuit speaks for itself.
At the root of this unique court action may be a family falling-out over a business deal. Aguiar and Kaplan have dueling lawsuits involving a company they founded, Leor Exploration & Production LLC, which was sold for $2.55 billion after discovering huge natural gas reserves in East Texas. The nephew is demanding an accounting of where the money from the 2007 sale went, saying he is owed at least an additional $17.6 million. The uncle is accusing Aguiar of misappropriating Leor's assets for personal expenses and demanding his nephew pay back nearly $200 million. In an interview, Aguiar said that since the sale of the energy company, he's been dedicated to using his newfound wealth to promote good deeds. Last year alone, he gave more than $30 million to charitable causes, one of his attorneys, Greg Miarecki, said.
As for the Messiah business, Aguiar said he's never told anyone he's the Messiah. He does say, though, that he feels very blessed. "People have said what an amazing accomplishment it was that I started a company at 26 from nothing and built it up to be so successful," Aguiar said. "When I sold the company I gave credit to God."
Aguiar says he was largely responsible for Leor's success, having moved to Houston from Florida at age 26 and immersing himself in the world of oil and gas exploration. Leor ended up tapping into what turned out to a multi-trillion-cubic-foot field of natural gas. In 2007, he was named Executive of the Year by Oil and Gas Investor magazine. While Aguiar portrays his uncle as having a minimal role in the company, Kaplan maintains he guided the business every step of the way. Before Leor, Kaplan already had made millions in the mineral and energy industries. [...]
It's the influence of Chabad.
ReplyDeleteEJF: Relationship between Chairman (Tom Kaplan) and Co-Chairman (Guma Aguiar) of EJF crashes in flames in full public view in massive family feud over money and allegations of false messianism!
ReplyDeleteThis is a watershed event that should prove as a WARNING to the Torah world and to rabbis associated with EJF, and to those who may have attended its conferences or have received money from it, and to Rabbi Tropper and his backer Dr. Tom Kaplan, and to anyone who doubted that their dangerous missionizing to gentiles will only lead to more outright disasters, mass Chillul Hashem, and make a mockery of Jews and Judaism in the eyes of the world as Tropper, Kaplan and EJF proceed full force with their plans to missionize and prosletyze to Billions of gentiles and in that wake there will be millions more cases more that must r"l backfire.
What follows is the full article with comments starting with "RaP":
"Uncle's suit claims nephew misspent foundation money to promote claim he is 'the Messiah'
Suit: Director misspent money of foundation
By Jon Burstein
South Florida Sun-Sentinel
January 25, 2009
In the legal annals of Broward County Click here for restaurant inspection reports, and the often furious back-and-forth between people suing one another for supposed lying, swindling, cheating, sleeping around and other misdeeds, this may be a first."
RaP: The subject matter of this story is but a spiritual version of "lying, swindling, cheating, sleeping around and other misdeeds".
"The director of one of South Florida's most generous foundations, the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, believes he is the Messiah and has been spending the foundation's millions to bolster his image, a lawsuit filed by his uncle claims."
RaP: Weird! Accusations of false messianism associated with Rabbi Tropper and EJF, that gets its money from the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, have been made on this blog, and it seems that it's all riddled with this disease. That not only can the main rabbinic benefeciery of Tom Kaplan be afflicted by this noxious abhorant virus, but now even the head of the foundation has caught it, and Tom Kaplan himself is crying foul.
The real root of the problem is Tropper, not poor Guma Aguiar (such an unlikely name) who until now was but a golem in Tropper's and Kaplan's hands, but now the golem is imitating his rebbes, and it's not funny to behold.
"The alleged Messiah wannabe, Guma Aguiar, dismisses his uncle's assertions as nonsense. If he truly believed he was the savior, he said, he would belong in a mental institution."
RaP: Such nonsense. Successful false messiahs do not land up in hospitals, they become leaders of movements (like newly crowned Barack Obama unfortunately and the masses that follow him including most liberal Jews) and win their way to head organizations as Guma Aguiar found his way to head up the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation and Tropper has found ways to head up and run its creature creation, the EJF organization.
Looks like Tom Kaplan is starting to see the light, but only barely half of it so far.
He is going to have to look and dig a lot deeper and see that Tropper is no different than nephew Guma Aguiar and that they are both afflicted by the same false messianic megalomaniacal viral virus and that just like Kaplan has now summoned the courage to renounce and take legal action against his own nephew whom he had loved so much to go help his father Otto get a conversion, he will now also have to face the hard task of renouncing and ridding himself of the proselytizationary false messianism of Tropper and his EJF fake dream to convert billions of gentiles r"l.
"Aguiar's rabbi says the businessman is exceptionally giving, donating millions to improve the world."
RaP: Rabbis, especially Chabad and Aish rabbis, who get big donations, will say anything to flatter the egos of their donors. Such "endorsements" count for zilch.
"He is a person who has a heart that is not matched by anybody," said Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc of Chabad Lubavitch of Fort Lauderdale"
RaP: Ok, so now we know who one of the enablers of Guma Aguiar is now. Yet another person belonging to a false messianism cult no doubt. Min matza es mino, or "birds of a feather flock together."
"But Aguiar's uncle, Thomas Kaplan, wants a Broward County judge to remove his nephew as director of the foundation created to honor Kaplan's mother, and to which Kaplan says he has contributed more than $40 million."
RaP: $40 million is a lot of money at stake, and as we know Rabbi Tropper and EJF have been receiving a healthy chunk of that. All of poster Roni's/Tropper's recent hypocritical screaming against Rabbi Bomzer's lust for money is so scary. $40 million behind Tropper that puts in the shade anything Bomzer is involved with. Bomzer may be bad (getting $$$ for doing his thing with conversions), but Tropper is far, far worse (getting lots more $$$$$$$$$ for doing his frum thing with conversions).
"The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, in existence for seven years, handed out nearly $4.9 million in 2006 to causes ranging from Jewish charities to the digging of water wells in Africa, according to the last federal tax return available online."
RaP: Much of it has gone to setting up EJF over the years and to its all-expenses-paid retreats at the fanciest hotels and spas for gentiles hitched to Jews to lure them to convert, and also to get rabbis to other types of conventions and get them talking about higher standards for conversions, while the flip side of the Tropper/EJF coin has been to hypocritically go all-out to advertize and proselytize to gentiles, something that Judaism and Jewish Law has forbidden for 2,000 years and longer.
"It's not those gifts Kaplan is objecting to, but to the more than $7 million he says his nephew, 31, doled out last year to advance what the lawsuit calls his "claim that he is the Messiah and to promote his messianic mission."
RaP: Kaplan is no fool, and he MAYBE has seen through his nephew's ruse. It is yet possible Kaplan is lying and is doing a dirty number of his nephew as Tropper pulls the strings in yet another "hit job" against an enemy of Tropper/Kaplan. Who knows, anything is possible in this cazy world.
Nevertheless, it is now time for Kaplan to use the same brilliance and perspicacity and see through Tropper's ruses designed to ensconse Tropper as the ultimate false messiah of modern times through EJF's "hechsher" to proselytize to billions of gentiles aided and enabled by Tom Kaplan's plentifull, and it seems loosely monitored, big money.
"Kaplan's attorney, Harley Tropin, declined to comment on the case, saying the Jan. 9 lawsuit speaks for itself."
RaP: Harley "Tropin"? Sounds a lot like "Tropper" doesn't it? He is a sucker for that kind of sounding name. Hope he gets a better and more honest deal from "Tropin" than he got from the formerly faithful Guma Aguiar who seemed to be under the spell of "Tropper's Toirah" but has now gone his own way!
"At the root of this unique court action may be a family falling-out over a business deal. Aguiar and Kaplan have dueling lawsuits involving a company they founded, Leor Exploration & Production LLC, which was sold for $2.55 billion after discovering huge natural gas reserves in East Texas."
RaP: No wonder the "Leor" website went offline. But some of what it said was discussed last year in Who is behind Eternal Jewish Family? (February 21, 2008) when Tom Kaplan, Guma Aguiar, Rabbi Tropper and EJF were all still lovey-dovey with each other:
"Anonymous said...Guma Kaplan Aguiar is the son of Ellen Kaplan.
From Leor's website:
"Mr. Aguiar is committed to numerous philanthropic causes and organizations. He is the Chairman of the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, a private family foundation, he serves as Co-Chairman of EJF, the Eternal Jewish Family. Additionally, Mr. Aguiar serves on the boards of: Electrum Resources LLC, a private precious metals exploration company; Panthera, an organization focused on global wild cat conservation; Mount Sinai Medical Center Foundation, an organization committed to the advancement of the art and science of medicine through clinical excellence; and, Nefesh B’Nefesh, an organization dedicated to facilitating and revitalizing the Aliyah process and increasing its awareness.
Mr. Aguiar and his wife Jamie have two children. February 22, 2008 2:28 PM"
And Is Eternal Jewish Family the center of the universe? (February 24, 2008):
"Anonymous said...Guma (or Gome) is not an unusual name among Spanish and Portuguese families especially in Brazil. The word "guma" means "man". The common Spanish surname "Gomez" comes from the word "guma".
The Aguiars are a Brazilian Portuguese family. Ellen Kaplan is married to Otto Aguiar and Guma is Ellen Kaplan's son.
If EJF did indeed facilitate a "conversion" for Otto Aguiar, would Mr. Aguiar be accepted as a Jew in Israel if the purpose of the "conversion" was to permit Ms. Kaplan to marry a non Jew?
Such a question might best be addressed to Rabbi Moshe Nidam who has been appointed by the Office of the Chief Rabbinute to oversee Diaspora conversions.
If Guma Aguiar is the natural born son of Ms. Ellen Kaplan and she is Jewish he is also Jewish according to Jewish law...An anonymous poster has already stated here that "The Aguiars are a Brazilian Portuguese family. Ellen Kaplan is married to Otto Aguiar and Guma is Ellen Kaplan's son...the involvement of "The Otto Aguiar Family Project" in projects together with the "Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation" (and probably a few other such entities not fully known to the public yet) makes the EJF opening claim on its website that it is "an independent organization..." very hard to be believed because not everyone looking at it is a person desperate for its services..."
"The nephew is demanding an accounting of where the money from the 2007 sale went, saying he is owed at least an additional $17.6 million. The uncle is accusing Aguiar of misappropriating Leor's assets for personal expenses and demanding his nephew pay back nearly $200 million."
RaP: $200? Come again? No wonder the Chabad rabbi is very ecstatic with Guma Aguiar! He is getting mountains of dough! Tropper can't be happy about this either that someone who was involved with founding EJF together with Tom Kaplan, has now become a turncoat to them and is not just supporting a local faceless generic Chabad rabbi and his shull but is intimating somehow that he is also "very blessed" to be a pseuo-messiah aspirant that somehow rival Tropper's dreams of glory for himself. Who needs to back Tropper with his strictures when one can crown oneself "the messiah" just as easily. What a farce this all is!
"In an interview, Aguiar said that since the sale of the energy company, he's been dedicated to using his newfound wealth to promote good deeds. Last year alone, he gave more than $30 million to charitable causes, one of his attorneys, Greg Miarecki, said."
RaP: And would you know, just as Kaplan's attorney's name "Tropin" chimes with his rabbi's name of "Tropper" but now also the name of Guma Aguiar's attorney "Miarecki" is in Slavic sync with "Lipszyc" such poets they all are, without even trying? Or do the false messiahs know things that mere mortals do not?
"As for the Messiah business, Aguiar said he's never told anyone he's the Messiah."
RaP: He "never told anyone"? What kind of excuse is that? Obviously his uncle knows enough to make it a public matter so that this noble family of hybrid gentiles/supposed annusim/conversos/holier-than-thou converts and just plain old megalomaniacs filled with arrogance think that the world will be impressed with them now that they are having such public airing of family dirty laundry?
"He does say, though, that he feels very blessed."
RaP: Sure he's blessed with lots of chutzpah and enough stupidity to have been influenced by Tropper's false creeds and screeds via his uncle, who will hopefully recant soon too from his faith in the false Tropper-ubber-messiah.
"People have said what an amazing accomplishment it was that I started a company at 26 from nothing and built it up to be so successful," Aguiar said. "When I sold the company I gave credit to God."
RaP: Ok, this is good. But what happened next he does not tell us. How this has obviously all gone to his head and filled him with more hot air and gas than in God's gas fields that he exploited for himself and his uncle eventually enabling Tropper globally by helping Tropper set up EJF and fooling more rabbis than can fill an opening night Aguda convention dais at times.
"Aguiar says he was largely responsible for Leor's success, having moved to Houston from Florida at age 26 and immersing himself in the world of oil and gas exploration. Leor ended up tapping into what turned out to a multi-trillion-cubic-foot field of natural gas. In 2007, he was named Executive of the Year by Oil and Gas Investor magazine."
RaP: This could well be true, but then again it could be half true or not true at all. It just shows that power will corrupt a young person very quickly and induce delusions of granduer on a truly grand scale. And to think that these people are Tropper's backers and the founders of EJF, it's disgusting!
"While Aguiar portrays his uncle as having a minimal role in the company, Kaplan maintains he guided the business every step of the way. Before Leor, Kaplan already had made millions in the mineral and energy industries."
RaP: Two nothings with lots of money debating who is the bigger nothing.
"Kaplan alleges in a Fort Lauderdale federal suit — filed the same day as the Broward complaint involving the foundation — that his nephew stole Leor's office equipment, filtered money to other family members without authorization and charged personal expenses on a Leor credit card."
RaP: One case is not enough. Tom Kaplan goes all the way with two. This family will never be united again, if it ever truly was, so this accusation that he "filtered money to other family members" is not in keeping with what they held before. Your beloved nephew of yesterday, that was your official co-chairman at EJF and partner in planning of converting billions of people to Judaism via EJF machinations, is now the worst person on Earth today.
"Aguiar said he's done nothing wrong and hasn't stolen a penny. He said he will ask for Broward Circuit Court Judge Robert Rosenberg to dismiss the Messiah lawsuit."
RaP: And may the most delusional man win!
"They are trying to distract and intimidate me from going on with my life," he said.
RaP: Intriguing question pops up: Is Tropper behind these lawsuits? Could be, he is paranoid, a very angry man, and thinks big and would go all out like this to encourage Kaplan. Supposedly Kaplan consults Tropper about all major decisons like this especially involving family, so one can assume that Tropper is not just on board with Kaplan 100% on this, but in fact may be either the co-pilot or the Captain Hook himself steering this ugly Chillul Hashen ship of fools!
"Jon Burstein can be reached at jburstein@ SunSentinel.com or 954-356-4491."
RaP: Good job Jon, and thanks for the report!
Who made the conversion of Guma's Wife? NOT tropper! but Bomzer with enablers and nice $$$$ (giving money to helpers for buildings). While she does NOT keep torah and mitzvot.
ReplyDeleteRaP
ReplyDeleteYour CHUTZPAH knows no bounds! Stop LYING to cover up your false pretenses! For all your hysteria: TROPPER DID NOT COVNERT AGUIAR'S WIFE! YOUR COORRUPTED BOMZER CONVEERTED HIM! with the aid of the anblers! Put in your head tha tTropper was HONEST and could not come (after years of their support to the organization) to "CONVERT" Guma's wife. They resorted to Bomzer WITH THE AID OF ENABLERS WHO GOT 50,000$ FOR THE FAKE CONVERSION AND ENABLED TO BUILD BUILDIONGS! Tropper DID NOT CONVERT THAT lady! All your hysteria are baseless in reality, and when push comes to sove you have the false messiah's wife being covnerted by the false dayan and NOT TROPPER, even though Tom Kaplan and Guma were top supporters, but he did BNOT SELL HIS SOUL TO MAKE A FAKE CONVERSION! YOUR BUDDIES DID with BOMZER ON THEIR HEAD (AND THEY MADE THE BRIS OF THEIR CHILD FEW MONTHS AGO WITH THE APPORVAL OF THE "CONVERSION" BY YOUR FAKE DAYAN BOMZER!
Roni said...
ReplyDeleteWho made the conversion of Guma's Wife? NOT tropper! but Bomzer with enablers and nice $$$$ (giving money to helpers for buildings). While she does NOT keep torah and mitzvot.
==============================
I asked you earlier if you , the EJF added another conversion to Guma’s father and you refused to answer.
You do not have hakaras toda! you are bad mouthing Guma’s wife after he fed you for such a long time.
I did talk this shabbos with couples who got converted by Rabbi Bomzer and the EJF and I asked them for the rates do it is the couple got converted in 2005 and 2006 and those are the rates:
ReplyDeleteRabbi Bomzer: $1200 - Beis Din + mikvah only (no classes)
EJF (Rabinovitz): $1300 Beis Din + mikvah only (no classes)
Also, I forgot to add. using the EJF you can write a check to Kol Yaakov/Horizons/EJF get a donation receipt and deduct it on your income tax. The couple who went with rabbi Bomzer was not able to do so for some reason.
ReplyDeleteConsumer Reports, how did you get Bomzer down to $1200???
ReplyDeleteHe charged my neighbor 10k to dunk his WASP wife. Is there a discount for being Hispanic??
My neighbor took the tax deduction because he made out the check to Rabbi Bomzer.
And by the way RaP - 50k donation is a "mentsch".
100k is a "real mentsch". 250k is an "uber mentsch".
For the kind of $$$ that Guma gave, Chabad would have no problem declaring him the messiah.
"...Consumer Reports, how did you get Bomzer down to $1200??? "
ReplyDeleteWhy don’t you call him and ask him? It is no secret, most beis dins charge between 1000-2000 and I think rabbi Bomzer is on the lower scale. I am sure you can do your own research.
You can start from the beis dins on the EJF web site or get phone numbers from the RCA
Consumer Reports,
ReplyDeleteI know for a fact that Bomzer's fee six years ago, from a poor guy(who was sincere) was not LESS THAN 1800$
For a break to allow marriage and the like the price goes higher and higher and higher and in Guma's case he received a "gist" of 50,000$
Monsey T,
ReplyDelete"You do not have hakaras toda! you are bad mouthing Guma’s wife after he fed you for such a long time".
1) Put in your head, I'M NOT TROPPER!
2) "eyn chochomoh veyn tevunah neged Hashem..." (if you need a tutor ...). What is hakoras hatov got to do with the CRIME of converting a goya and saying that she is jewess?! Is "money that feed you" reason for one to SELL THE TORAH! She does not and did not want to keep torah and mitzvot at the time of her "conversion"! Tropper could not make that conversion! But the FAKE AND FRAUD BOMZER (RAP'S AND mMONSEY T'S BUDDY) MADE THE CONVERSION WITH THE PARTNERSHIP OF THEIR ENABLERS AND BOMZER GOT A GIFT OF 50,000$ AND THE ENABLERS GOT A BUILDING , THIS IS CORRUPTION AND SELL OF OF YIDIDSHKEYT AND ESNAN ZONAH BEIS HASHEM ELOKECHA,
I understand that you and RAP will attack tropper for whatever he does and will bomzer for whatever he does....but it will not help you, that tropper had the honesty and decency not to convert this lady; and bomzer had the audacaity of $$$lling the torah G-d to grab $$$$ and take a hold of a big fish as Kaplan and to take him out of his rival tropper!!! how many fishes in one scoop!! And what about TOra,h Chillul Hashem (bringing such a person as a Jew when she is a goy and short selling yiddishkeyt for the nezid adashim) for a public figure....and then RAP has the audacity to use this as example of how Tropper's malpractice??? when he had the decency of doing the right thing and not selling the torah as your buddy fake dayan bomzer did. That takes a huge amount of chutzpah and embodiment of sheker in you!
Roni, I am not quite sure who you are, altho you do seem a lot like Rabbi Tropper himself when you carry on so, but it is really tiresome to have to deal with your repatative rants that are nothing but primal screams from the gut lacking any sechel or chochma. In this post for some reason you disclose personal information about Guma and his family not known before that reveals that you have yet another red-herring agenda than just screaming at me as usual. So here goes. See my responses below starting with "RaP""
ReplyDelete"Who made the conversion of Guma's Wife?"
RaP: Who was even discussing this? Noone, on this blog, so far who even knew that Guma had a legal wife (many people have kids with partners) or that Guma's wife wasn't even Jewish. All we have known is that Guma's father Otto wasn't Jewish once, and in earlier posts it was alleged that EJF had nothing to do with Otto's conversion, but nothing was even mentioned about Guma's wife until now. There was a mention that Tom Kaplan's wife is also a convert and in that one EJF may have been involved. Could you or anyone clarify that please? Thank you.
"NOT tropper! but Bomzer with enablers and nice $$$$ (giving money to helpers for buildings). While she does NOT keep torah and mitzvot."
RaP: Aside from the old "Tropper is a 'tzadik' versus Bomzer is 'rasha' mantra" and drivel, the rest is all new information on this blog. What "helpers"? Which "buildings"? And why are you feeling so free to stoop to speak evil of a lady who "does NOT keep torah and mitzvot" that we are reading about for the first time? What is you beef with her? Have you been following her around to know what she does every day? have you read her heart and mind? Maybe she is the next "Ruth the Moabite" who knows?
By now it's clear that you are not objective and that have an agenda and many axes to grind so it is impossible to know anything about this new mystery lady you now hate with a passion. One thing we know, is that wives have big power over their husbands and it seems this wife of Guma's is not getting in the way of Guma's giving the way that Tom Kaplan wants him to stop. One more thing, it's pretty obvious that Tropper comes across as an outright misogynist ("woman hater") and the way you are now spouting irrational hatred at this unknwon woman/wife of Guma's who we are now just hearing about proves it.
"Your CHUTZPAH knows no bounds!"
RaP: The pot calling the kettle black! Tropper is one of the biggest chutzpanyak's you'll ever meet.
"Stop LYING to cover up your false pretenses!"
RaP: Such as? What "pretenses" and what is "false"? -- Be specific please and not generalize.
We know you can launch into a Poilishe pilpul on the drop of a hat, Tropper was always famous for being brilliant at that, now he is being shown up to be a "brilliant idiot" a "talmid chochem shoiteh", indeed EJF's and Tropper's self-defensive counter-productive deviousness have been questioned and pointed out many times: The Emperor has no clothes - Eternal Jewish Family & Daas Torah (December 31, 2007) and The mountain produced a mouse or you call this a defense of EJF!? II (February 28, 2008) and Why is EJF refusing to have open for-the-record dialogue? (March 4, 2008) and maore like these posts that refute all your claims and screams. Try being rational and normal for a change and not just a bullying stean-engine spouting Shas to get your way, not everyone buys into that type of stuff you know.
"For all your hysteria:"
RaP: Right now I am as cool as a cucumber and you are clearly the hysteric, and understandably so, the Kaplan-Tropper duo have been caught with their pants down, literally, as Guma runs off the with the store and hands it over lock stock and barrel to Tropper's arch foes the "Chabadskers"! What a shock and humiliation it is to them! And they deserve it for all their arrogance and thinking that only they truly perceive what ails the Jews today and in their hubris they assumed to start a project called "EJF" that's more rotten than anything ever was in the state of Denmark.
"TROPPER DID NOT COVNERT AGUIAR'S WIFE!"
RaP: Who was even talking about this? You are using this forum to introduce another stealth topic and in fact another red herring (like you did at Roni's red herring defense of EJF /RaP (January 6, 2009)) because noone was even aware or discussing Guma's wife, of all people.
The subject here is how Tropper and Kaplan have been taken for the ride of their lives by the young Guma upstart who is now even outspending them (maybe he is manic, it's ofetn wahat ails aspiurant false messiahs), who is Halachically Jewish since we were told his mother is Jewish (Tom Kaplan's sister who married the gentile Otto, and what is their take on all this by the way, will you spill the beans on that too to dirty them at all costs?), to Tropper-Kaplans' eternal shame an humiliation.
One clear lesson for everyone is that if Tropper and Kaplan can't keep tabs on their own Co-Chairman of EJF and in fact they have been hiding the fact that Guma's wife is not a Jew and to add insult to injury they have been grand-scale hypocrites that right under everyone's noses, including all those choshuve rabbonim who were fooled come to EJF events and, well, let's call them concerts now because they made for good theater, that right in the belly of beast, the co-leader of EJF, Guma himself was married to a shiksa and then got a conversion not via EJF (another act of calumny to EJF and hypocrisy to the outside world) but from Tropper's self-appointed arch-enemy, the "wicked" Bomzer himself, all while Guma was co-dispensing funds with Kaplan to Tropper and the NAIVE and GULLIBLE and CASH-STARVED rabbis coming feed from the EJF money troughs like mindless numbed and dazzled hungry cattle.
And to think that you/Tropper have the chutzpa to run around and get signatures fromn a few out-of-town roshei kollel and rabbis with no following to sign on to a letter against Bomzer, when you should have gotten them to sign a letter of warning against Guma himself sitting right on top of you at EJF world headquarters.
It now becomes VERY clear and logical why Rav Nochum Eisenstein of the Va'ad HaOlami LeInyanei Giur is running as quick as he can AWAY from you/Tropper and anything to do with EJF! Any self-respecting Rov worth his salt should be!
Yasher Koach to Rav Nochum Eisenstein for finally seeing the light, waking up and smelling the coffee and dumping the Tropper/Kaplan/Guma&Otto/EJF/Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation/proseltyizing false messianic aparatus and gang!
Fare thee well and enjoy your disgrace, you deserve it for all the cotempt and insults you have hurled at anyone who disagreed with you and after what you have done to so many others!
"YOUR COORRUPTED BOMZER CONVEERTED HIM! with the aid of the anblers!"
RaP: Bomzer is not "mine" it is clear that Tropper has an irrational fixation on him. Maybe it has a psychologal interpretation that Tropper is playing out all his "father figure hatred" against the "Bomzer-father figure" slef-contsructed idol, almost like an avoda zora that Tropper uses to vent his hatred and spleen at in worshipful fashion since one who is constantly angry is as if he had worshipped idols:
"The Sages tell us (Talmud, Shabbat 115) regarding a person who gets angry that it is as if he worshipped idols. What idol is he worshipping? Himself." (from Aish.com).
But one thing is for sure, I have never seen nor met Bomzeer and could care less about him, just that I am sickened when I see a man chopped up by the Tropper character assassination and killing machine without the chance to defend himself given a chance to express his side of the picture. It's just about a little fairness, something that you/Tropper don't grasp. That's all.
You are living proof of what the Kotzker reputedly said that "a frummer iz a rotezeiach"!
"Put in your head tha tTropper was HONEST and could not come (after years of their support to the organization) to "CONVERT" Guma's wife. They resorted to Bomzer WITH THE AID OF ENABLERS WHO GOT 50,000$ FOR THE FAKE CONVERSION AND ENABLED TO BUILD BUILDIONGS! Tropper DID NOT CONVERT THAT lady!"
RaP: Again, until this very post of yours nothing has been said or mentioned about "THAT lady" in clearly Clintonesque language ("I did not have _ _ _ with that woman, Miss Lewinsky) as if intimating Guma's wife is some kind of sly "Monica" (yet a new enemy in the Tropper pantheon of people to hate), but to us she is unknown whoever she may be.
And all the other details that you are spouting now about building "BUILDINGS" this is all new stuff and you are free to spill as much of the beans as you like, but please do not assume that we are all stupid here just because we can't pass your/Tropper's farher's. Just a pure misuse of the power of Torah if there ever was one, to think you can make people feel stupid because they can't say over sevoras and krumme terutzim to justify bringing in Billions of goyim. Good thing Hakadosh Boruch Hu, spoke most of the Aseres HaDibros in TWO WORDS only, like LO TIN'AF, -- just two words with no terutzim needed -- heard of that one Roni/Tropper??????!!!!!!
But, the main subject of this post and thread is how the Tropper-Kaplan duo were hoodwinked by Guma their own chosid/nephew who has now gone on to join up with his local dinky Chabad rabbi in Florida who now thinks that Guma is the greatest invention since cream cheese, and no wonder, Guma is shmeering him with gelt as if it was the smoothest and creamiest and yummiest cream cheese by the ton, something that Tropper wants only for himself but now has to watch as all the Kaplan billions goes down the Chabad drain. Oy what Divine Justice all this is!
"All your hysteria"
RaP: What hysteria? You look like the hysterical one now for sure!
"are baseless in reality,"
RaP: What nonsense are you saying? Are you accusing the writer of the article of "baseless reality" as well? Which part did I make up? That Tropper does not have delusions of grandeur? Anyone who meets him knows after five minutes of hearing him talk that Tropper is a pure megalomaniac who needs help and medication to calm down.
"and when push comes to sove you have the false messiah's wife being covnerted by the false dayan and NOT TROPPER,"
RaP: Wait, the "fales messiah" has a "false dayan" -- who says? This is sounding alot like Shabtai Tzvi. A fales messiah with a weird wife and a false prophet who empoers him to boot? This is just melodrama it's too good to be true! Has anyone contacted Bomzer himself and found out for a fact that he (Bomzer) is now persoannly responsible for Guma's megalomania? And what does it have to do with Guma's wife? Did Bomzer know that she would be involved with her husband's future escapades? You insist on tying Bomzer to his (Bomzer's) failures but you never connect the dotted lines to see how Tropper is responsible for his own failures and blunders.
In fact not once have you ever conceded that Tropper even makes mistakes and has failures. Like the Popes, Tropper is infallible. Only people opposed to him or who disagree with him make mistakes. How cute (not)!
Funny, even Moshe Rabbeinu made mistakes and paid for it. Also with geirim, the eruv rav that he took out of Egypt on his own volition, so why does Tropper feel that he is safer or better than Moshe Rabbeinu himself?
"even though Tom Kaplan and Guma were top supporters, but he did BNOT SELL HIS SOUL TO MAKE A FAKE CONVERSION!"
RaP: Now you are coming with defenses and self-righteous excuses. What's the matter, can't you take the heat and the shame of this horrible and wild family feud that will rip Tropper/s dream baby, EJF apart?
Be a man and take it instead of crying and making excuses like a two year old (usually Tropper's true emotional age) by having public tantrums online here on this blog for the world to see how immature you really are.
"YOUR BUDDIES DID with BOMZER ON THEIR HEAD"
RaP: I don't have buddies. Certainly not people like Bomzer or Tropper who love to stick their hands into the muck of conversions controversies issues. You should have figured that out long ago.
"(AND THEY MADE THE BRIS OF THEIR CHILD FEW MONTHS AGO WITH THE APPORVAL OF THE "CONVERSION" BY YOUR FAKE DAYAN BOMZER!"
RaP: These are more personal revelations by you. Noone is that up-to-date to even know these things about new babies and their curcumcisions. Unfortunately, this type of thing happens in America and Israel ane everywhere every day. Many baby boys are circumcised by their parents who think they are doing a mitzva when their is a doubt about the Halachik status of the mother and child. What are you getting hysterical about? What is Bomzer supposed to do after he has converted the mother years ago and she does not keep up her observances? Not everyone is as brutal and as controlling as Tropper to annul conversions on a whim and be over on destroying a life by humiliation which is just another form of retzicha. Some things cannot be controlled, it's just too complex and ultimately almost impossible to control if people wish to exercise their freedom of religion and do whatever pleases them. That's why we need the true Mashiach, and not Tropper and Guma who are shrouded in hypocrisy and failure of the public trust.
I do not know about Guma messiahanic inspirations but Troppeer definitely have some. He likes to tell people that he get answered in his dreams and learn with a spirit ( a maggid ?). He also tells (at least to his talmidim) that he went to a fortune teller who told him he will be leader and will lead his people or something to that extent.
ReplyDeleteRaP
ReplyDeleteI'll show later how all your words are zilch nada !! but just in short, you and others wanted to capitalize on Guma's revelation that tropper is the bad evil! you went back about it from over a year ago!
I show you: 1) Tropper did not saell his soul to convert the nnon jewish wife of Guma. Anyone who knowns about this case knows that this is a huge chillul Hashem. She was converted knowing that she does not intend to keep shabbat.
2) On this very story Bomzer converted her and got a gift for 50,000$.
to show you and everyone: how important EJf ios to take away the bad $$$$ covnersions Bomzer is does with the help of his enablers and those who later get a gift "a building" for kashering the false covnersion.
This iis the real truth about this Guma's story! proving that tropper has standards and does not sell conversion and bomzer takes a ride and tomake covnersion a business$$$$
Guma did not go to the EJF to convert his wife. By that time he and his uncle had a failing and Tropper obviously took Tom Kaplan side and he is now turning him against his nephew. He is furious that Guma went to his arch enemy to get his wife converted.
ReplyDeleteRonny/Tropper refused to answer if he also converted Otto Aguiar.
Laharbos chet al avon he is now getting his yiddishkeit from Chabbad.
If Guma will give money to Aish (rabbi Noach Weinberg who Tropper hates way more than he hates rabbi Bomzer) Rony/Tropper for sure will get heart attack.
No one I know of could get any of the Rabbis on the list down below 5k. Bomzer was the most expensive.
ReplyDeleteDo you think it is because all of the men I know who converted the Latina goyas are Sephardic that it was so expensive??? Maybe there are two price scales?
RAP,
ReplyDeleteYou and otherswanted to implicate tropper and EJf for the Kaplabn family and you cast aspersions at tropper for this article about guma's messiahship and you somehow wanted to assoicate as all your sour chollents in this story with tropper as if tropper is responsible for this fight betweren tom and guma.
I found it that is corresponds to your irrational hatred of tropper and you "Ax to grind" is to destroy troppe and whatver ejf represents.
I feel it ppropitious to reveal to you and others that this story beghind this mand and his goyishe wife (Who is NO ruth) is the story that vindicates him and the existence of the eJf!
IT is a story that tell us that there is need for an organization that will keep fake covnerters and shikssah bringers to klal yisroel out of commission in their dangerous canceorus job.
It is therefore pertinent to tell you and your fake buddies: that While they wanted and dremaed that ultimately EJF would covnert Guma's wife; he could not becuase she is and was not ready to keep torah and mtizvot.
SO what they Guma do? He summoned some of the enableers and got hold of Bomzer and he covnerted her knowing that she never intended to keep shabbat! And then he gave him a 50,000$ gift and now as it is reported in the news he promised Rabbi L money for a building and the rabbi vouches for this fellow while he gave a stamp of approval for the non jewish lady to be considered jewish.
It shows how xcorrupt bomzer nad his fellow are to to sell yidishkeyt down the river and shows the heroism of tropper not to allow his soul to be sold for the $$$ that you buddies live for even at the expense of making a mockery and chillul hashem o this magnitude.
There is no real yiddishkeyt when you seell jewish principles for $$$$ and giving an approval to call a goya a yid is a HUGE CHILLUL HASEHM.
sINCE YOU ARE A BIG KRUMMER AM HOORRETS AND A FIRST CLASS DISTORTER, you drey and drey and drey with shtussim and havolim. Firsrt you useed the aritcle of the false messiah Guma to attack Tropper and now you krummer defend guma and make sound like a nebechel because his uncle who sides with tropper sides withi him. Typicla of shotehh flip flop in all issues.
But I will tgell you one thing: don't farkrum Rav Eisenstein'spositions: Ask him and he will give an earfull about the huge chillul hashem that this fake covnersion is and what a sham this is and was. Rav Eisenstein letter about Bomzer and his non hllachik conversions spring forth from these kinds of fake conversions that bnomzer and his buddies (whom in another article you bemoaned them when you thought they were associated with tropper but when you find out that they used this fake conversion to shlep out money from guma and thought that they would destroy ejf (two birds with one stone( you somehow shy away from your previous critisim. You know what:? You ax to grind is KNOWN you have some vendetta against tropper and you want to get back at himn by hook ort by crook. Whether you aligned with bomzer to begin with (and come with avengeance becuase tropper revealed the crook) or some other vendetta it does matter.
But I have to tell you "Ax to grind": FIGHT FALSE GERUS! Those that you defend...you will drey and fardrey about thwe billions that tropper did bnot covnert but you will cover up for the essnan zonanh umchir kelev $$$$that your buddies amass.
Yuor false and fake insiniations as if Bomzer did not realize that she would not keep torah and mtizvot and it is not his fault that she does not keep now are o\part of your SHEKER EMBODIEMENT! He knew ahead and was told taht she DOES NOT WANT TO KEEP SHABBAT AND SHE IS MECHALEL SHABBOS BEFARHESSYA!
All your false and venomous attacks for years round against tropper, i can assure you that you did not make a dent wn stopping him. Because you are not leshem shomayim it will not work. PEople like Rav Eisenstein will never trade tropper for bomzer. Rabbonim of itnegrity and yirass shomayim will never TODAY associate with him. You can try as much as you can but ehrliche yidden will not buy it.
Stop marching for the $$$$ fake conversion money fresser! (and get a tuor to know pirush hamiloss for what you call "polisher pilpul". Start learning mishnayot and then gemoroh and then talk about pilpuyl.
Roni's tiresome verbal rampages are so robotic and predictable.
ReplyDeleteTropper can do no wrong, when right under his nose he has Guma running EJF and the he accuses Guma's wife of being a gentile without a good conversion, so how come Roni/Tropper didn't make that known and write letters against Guma but it was an American news-reporter relying on freedom of the press that had to tell Klal Yisroel all this bad news.
So stop carrying on please and just reacting withknee-jerk stupid insults instead of your shoddy technique of creating one red herring distraction after another. Below are responses starting with "RaP":
"You and otherswanted to implicate tropper and EJf for the Kaplabn family"
RaP: Um, isn't Kapaln Tropper's chosid and presumably Guma was a close second until something happened, not just about Guma's wife which is a nice excuse. I would take an educated guess and say that Guma had enough of Tropper's ego-mania and bullying methods and told him and Kaplan to go fly a kite.
It's understandable that a guy who can make billions in "gasses" won't be fooled by the false "hot air" from the likes of Tropper and many of the rabbis that came to EJF concerts.
"and you cast aspersions at tropper for this article about guma's messiahship and you somehow wanted to assoicate as all your sour chollents in this story with tropper as if tropper is responsible for this fight betweren tom and guma."
RaP: Oh, sure, Tropper is never responsible for anything that he doesn't like. All of a sudden Tropper is an innocent bystander when he has been the biggest and most public Orthodox Jewish beneficiary of the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation that Guma and his Mom founded and run: See The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc.
Incorporated by Guma Aguiar and Ellen Aguiar, The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc. is located at 3130 NE 55th Ct Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308. The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc. was incorporated on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 in the State of FL and is currently active. Elliot P. Borkson represents The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc. as their registered agent. Source: Public Record data from Florida Department of State - Division of Corporations"
"I found it that is corresponds to your irrational hatred of tropper and you "Ax to grind" is to destroy troppe and whatver ejf represents."
RaP: Chas Vesholom! All that "I" and many others in the Torah world would like to see is Tropper get uninvolved with reaching out to gentiles hitched to Jews. This is what the wise call of the Bais Din of the Eidah HaChareids (BADATS) to Rabbi Tropper was all about. It's not "me" it's a far more serious matter tha concerns Klal Yisroel, see:
1) Bedatz Letter regarding EJF signed by Gaavad (February 14, 2008), and the original document.
2) Bedatz letter regarding conversion (November 18, 2007), and the original document.
3) Rav Moshe Sternbuch - [Kiruv to Non Jews] Authorized Translation (August 10, 2007), and the original document.
Are you also going to accuse the seven dayanim of the BADATS of having an "irrational hatred" of Tropper? Feel free, you have already shown that you/Tropper have little honesty in not just ignoring the THREE official letters from real addresses (not from unknown "P.O. Boxes"), but that you also have the temerity to tzushmetter them and shlog them op because naturally, you/Tropper feel that you are a velt's gaon and can twist Halacha and poskim any which way you like.
Forget it buddy.
The game's up and your goose is cooked.
Noone is going to respect EJF and Tom Kaplan's Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation machlokes with Guma and his side. With all the Chabad elements thrown in, it is Kaplan and Tropper who made up this bitter chollent according to their own recepies, and don't try to twist even that by saying that people here can't read simple plain English when it's put in black and white by a newspaper reporter that any moron with a 5th grade English education can read for himself and draw the obvious and logical conclusions, that if the mother foundation (the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation) is rotten then all her misbegotten kids stink, like EJF, Horizons and Kol Yaakov that got their money from it with Guma as the mashgiach ruchani and kaspi calling all the shots, till now when he's giving his money away to Chabad and Nefesh BeNefesh.
Don't be a yotz and don't try to paint others as stupid. It doesn't suit someone as smart as you, ok?
"I feel it ppropitious to reveal to you and others that this story beghind this mand and his goyishe wife (Who is NO ruth) is the story that vindicates him and the existence of the eJf!"
RaP: Sure, and what will be the next "revelation" that Tropper is the real hero, the real "Messiah" r"l, och und vei! The way you say it , makes me laugh, so here goes, ahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
"IT is a story that tell us that there is need for an organization that will keep fake covnerters and shikssah bringers to klal yisroel out of commission in their dangerous canceorus job."
RaP: Such a brainwashed robot it's unbelievable. What do you think, people still want to buy the EJF detergent to kasher goyim when it can't even keep it's own house in order and hides from the world that it's Co-Chairman is cohabiiting with a shiksa wife (according to you) and you expect people to be impressed with your childish immature "revelations" here?
You know, it's scary, you really are starting to sound like a real Moonie.("Moon has said that he is "the Messiah" and the Second Coming of Christ and is fulfilling Jesus's unfinished mission.")
"It is therefore pertinent to tell you and your fake buddies:"
RaP: I don't have any buddies. Sorry.
"that While they wanted and dremaed that ultimately EJF would covnert Guma's wife; he could not becuase she is and was not ready to keep torah and mtizvot."
RaP: This is nice news. So for how long was this going on? Was Guma also maybe sleeping with other women since as you claim he is not religious and his wife is a shiksa and usually those who sleep with one shiksa like to sleep with other shiksa at the same time (to them it's not a stira) since there is no morality guiding them just "the power of love" and all this while rabbonim were coming to EJF conventions, eating glatt kosher meat, drinking chalav Yisroel, sipping yayin mevushal, learning Daf Yomi and learning the latest terutzim how to mekarev goyim from Tropper's Talmid Chochem Shoitte kop and right above or below them, Guma was having a great time and laughing at them, even as he wrote the checks as head of the Kaplan foundation and Co-Chair of EJF while uncle Tom kept quiet (or was he acting dumb?) and Tropper sang to the choir and macht zich nisht vissendik.
You know, you must really think that people are stupid to think that this is a nice little morality tale about how great Tropper is (he's always great by you, like Rev. Moon he is "perfect" in all ways) and everyone else just whistles in the dark. Dream on. It's now a nightmare for you.
"SO what they Guma do? He summoned some of the enableers and got hold of Bomzer and he covnerted her knowing that she never intended to keep shabbat! And then he gave him a 50,000$ gift and now as it is reported in the news he promised Rabbi L money for a building and the rabbi vouches for this fellow while he gave a stamp of approval for the non jewish lady to be considered jewish."
RaP: Ok, this is interesting, but you notice in all this that Tropper is not taking responsiblity for his MASSIVE failure here, he failed to mekarev Guma, WHY? What went massively wrong?
And you are just using that old trick of the red herring distraction to take the spotlight off of Tropper and his aims through EJF by now talking about some lady with a doubtful conversion, when there are tens of thousands (even millions perhaps?) like her walking the streets of the world.
And Tropper's solution is worse, to give those kinds of people ultra-frum conversions so that the problems with them will be even more complicated Halachically and in the real world. i HAVE SAID AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT THE ONE AND ONLY SOLUTION IS TO CREATE AND RUN A SFER YUCHSIN FOR THE WORLD'S 13-14 MILLION JEWS AS TOLD BY RAV ELIASHIV.
Stop blaming Bomzer and now Guma's wife for all your problems and hangups and let Tropper face up to what damage he is doing by running around trying to create a tidal wave of super-kosher geirim that will bring a catastrophe to Klala Yisroel.
"It shows how xcorrupt bomzer nad his fellow are to to sell yidishkeyt down the river and shows the heroism of tropper not to allow his soul to be sold for the $$$ that you buddies live for even at the expense of making a mockery and chillul hashem o this magnitude."
RaP: Back to that old mantra "Bomzer is 'evil' vs Tropper is a 'tsadik'" when I say that: BOMZER MAY BE BAD, BUT TROPPER IS DEFINITELY WORSE!!!
"There is no real yiddishkeyt when you seell jewish principles for $$$$ and giving an approval to call a goya a yid is a HUGE CHILLUL HASEHM."
RaP: We knows this already. Calm down. Don't you get tired of repeating yourself so many times? Say something original for a change already. You are getting boring.
"sINCE YOU ARE A BIG KRUMMER AM HOORRETS AND A FIRST CLASS DISTORTER, you drey and drey and drey with shtussim and havolim. Firsrt you useed the aritcle of the false messiah Guma to attack Tropper and now you krummer defend guma and make sound like a nebechel because his uncle who sides with tropper sides withi him. Typicla of shotehh flip flop in all issues."
RaP: Ever heard of that expression "sticks and stones..." what are you saying, that you can't follow my reasoning? Go back and read everything I wrote and tell me exactly which points don't make sense to you instead of calling me a million and one names that won't make Tropper's big problems and EJF's and uncle Tom shande go away when it is now out in the open and staring you/Tropper and everyone in the eyes.
"But I will tgell you one thing: don't farkrum Rav Eisenstein'spositions: Ask him and he will give an earfull about the huge chillul hashem that this fake covnersion is and what a sham this is and was. Rav Eisenstein letter about Bomzer and his non hllachik conversions spring forth from these kinds of fake conversions that bnomzer and his buddies (whom in another article you bemoaned them when you thought they were associated with tropper but when you find out that they used this fake conversion to shlep out money from guma and thought that they would destroy ejf (two birds with one stone( you somehow shy away from your previous critisim. You know what:? You ax to grind is KNOWN you have some vendetta against tropper and you want to get back at himn by hook ort by crook. Whether you aligned with bomzer to begin with (and come with avengeance becuase tropper revealed the crook) or some other vendetta it does matter."
RaP: This is such a long convoluted slew of words, hope you enjoyed it. You just thrash hither and thither trying to take the focus away from Tropper and his wrong decision to start EJF with uncle Tom by talking about Bomzer, Guma, Guma's wife, me, anything under the sun, but always making Tropper into the "hero" and now saying that Rav Eisenstein is proud of Tropper in spite of the Kaplan/Guma fight that is bringing out so much unflattering information and dirt by uncle Tom himself.
Rav Eisenstein does not need Tropper's help or encouragement or proof that Bomzer is bad. Rav Eisenstein hates Modern Orthodox rabbis, and he thinks all rabbis like Bomzer especially YU RCA rabbis are no good and he said that at the EJF conventions, and now he is stuck with Tropper around his neck, all the embarrasing information that EJF's mother institution, the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation is corrupt and that it's head (Guma) is married to shiksa (according to you) and that EJF Co-Chair Guma has now thrown in his lot with Chabad. This will give any self-respecting rov a huge headache and Rav Eisenstien will run even further from Tropper and EJF once he digests all this very bad news from the Tropper/Kaplan/Guma/EJF/Foundation.
"But I have to tell you "Ax to grind": FIGHT FALSE GERUS!"
RaP: I do. More than you know.
"Those that you defend...you will drey and fardrey about thwe billions that tropper did bnot covnert but you will cover up for the essnan zonanh umchir kelev $$$$that your buddies amass."
RaP: I don't have buddies. Sorry.
"Yuor false and fake insiniations as if Bomzer did not realize that she would not keep torah and mtizvot and it is not his fault that she does not keep now are o\part of your SHEKER EMBODIEMENT! He knew ahead and was told taht she DOES NOT WANT TO KEEP SHABBAT AND SHE IS MECHALEL SHABBOS BEFARHESSYA!"
RaP: Why do you want to be involved with such shmutz? This conversion business is so ugly, like a sewer, yet Tropper, like that muppet on Sesame Street that lives in the sewers loves this kind of sewage, seems false messiahs can't get enough of tzo'a rosachas. Kekelev chozer el kio.
"All your false and venomous attacks for years round against tropper, i can assure you that you did not make a dent wn stopping him. Because you are not leshem shomayim it will not work. PEople like Rav Eisenstein will never trade tropper for bomzer."
Rap: Who said any of this? You are now being delusional and again twisting words and being an outright liar.
"Rabbonim of itnegrity and yirass shomayim will never TODAY associate with him. You can try as much as you can but ehrliche yidden will not buy it."
RaP: Ok, fine, he is old he doesn't need anyone's haskomas. I am still sure he would be able to say something in his own defense instead of your/Tropper's constant butchering of him.
"Stop marching for the $$$$ fake conversion money fresser! (and get a tuor to know pirush hamiloss for what you call "polisher pilpul". Start learning mishnayot and then gemoroh and then talk about pilpuyl."
RaP: Money is not my motivation and insults are not a substiture for rational, logical, refined, intelligent and cultured discussions.
Can someone point me to some concrete documentary evidence - either in the form of investigative reporting about Guma Aguiar's messianism ?
ReplyDeleteClarification - either investigative reporting or direct documentary evidence that this guy thinks he is Moshiach - which could of course be problematic for Chabad, since most of them think that the Rebbe is Moshiach.
ReplyDelete"Not everyone is as brutal and as controlling as Tropper to annul conversions on a whim and be over on destroying a life by humiliation which is just another form of retzicha."
ReplyDeleteWe should never forget the evil inflicted by Tropper on klal Israel.
The Fmily of Gideon Busch who had a dream to have a doctor in family now they only have a grave.
The parents who cannot see their children because Tropper told the childen not have any connection with their parent unless the parents become observant as well.
The children who do not have a family because Tropper told one of the parent to divorce the other because the other refused to follow Tropper chumras.
Can someone point me to some concrete documentary evidence - either in the form of investigative reporting about Guma
ReplyDeleteAguiar's messianism ?
It is part of initial lawsuit (there is a legal name for it) where they can say whatever they want to. They obviously use the messianic thing in order to taint him before the court hearing ( a Tropper idea?)
They just as well could say that Guma killed Tupac but we all know from Roni that it was rabbi Bomzer who killed Tupac.
I am not sure this story involved rabbi Tropper because it happened before I moved into the community and I am not a personal friend of the woman involved but from what I read it does sound like him.
ReplyDeleteA couple with two children was mekarev by the local chabbad, after a while they got involved with a rabbi out of town who had a former student in the community. They were not in the same level of observance and while the husband become observant the wife lagged behind, she refused to cover her hair and to stop wearing pants (sounds familiar…).
The rabbi arranged for the guy to divorce his wife, leave the children with her and go to a yeshiva in Israel.
The woman left a single mother of two kids with no child support and because she quit her job to be a full time mother she missed on her career and could not find a great job. She moved out of the community and she is on section 8 now and fully supported by state services.
Guma's father is a Gentile. Guma's wife is a Gentile.
ReplyDeleteTom Kaplan's wife is a Gentile (converted??)
Leib Tropper's wife was makarev by him.
Why are the Rabbonim in Israel and the US allowing Gentiles and newly relgious Jews to redefine our most sacred halachot as to Who is a Jew??
This is a case of American Rabbis allowing Gentiles with good marketing to tell them how to follow the halacha.
Its really messed up.
EJF and Torah World In Shock as Its Co-Chairman Guma Aguiar Admits He is a Chabad Baal Teshuva
ReplyDeleteEJF Co-Chairman Guma Aguiar Accused by Kaplan-Tropper of Marriage to Gentile Woman, Obtaining Invalid Conversion As Slap at EJF
EJF Co-Chairman Guma Aguiar's Firm Support For Chabad Kept Secret From Non-Chabad Rabbis Attending All EJF Events for Years
EJF at War With Itself as Tropper-Kaplan Faction Fights Guma Aguiar and Chabad Influences.
EJF's Controlling Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation Firmly in Hands of Guma Aguiar-Chabad as Kaplan-Tropper Sruggle to Stop Them In Court
Guma Aguiar Launches Own PR Drive and Rejoices With New Found Public Honors from Chabad and Nefesh BeNefesh While Kaplan-Tropper Launch Smear Attacks and Legal Action
Such are the horrific headlines based on articles and they are true, unless Roni/Tropper can come up with concrete proof.
Another very important question for Roni/Tropper: Who is really the lay power running BOTH EJF and its mother foundation the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation AT THE PRESENT TIME?
From official sources cited in posts above, it would seem that Guma and his mother Ellen (Tom Kaplan's sister) are in control of the foundation, why else would uncle Tom be resorting to legal action if he could just simply legally fire them which he obviously CANNOT do.
And what about EJF that is basically exclusively funded by the Kaplan Foundation, so far there has been no official statement that specifically says officially in the name of EJF that Guma is no longer its Co-Chairman with uncle Tom.
One would need to see the actual incorporation papers of EJF to see who the controlling trustees are, and one must assume that as in the case of the mother Kaplan Foundation, so too its EJF offspring are conrolled by Guma and uncle Tom with sister Ellen and maybe even uncle Otto, Guma's father and Ellen's husband.
All this means that Guma has at least 50% controlling power and interest in both the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation and in EJF, and perhaps even more power if one adds in that his mother Ellen is presumably siding with her son Guma (mother's almost always favor their successful sons) against the brother Tom (aligned with the misogynist Tropper, never a draw with mature women, which is why Tropper is better with adoring clueless hormonally pumped young college students when he travels to speak on campuses for his Horizons program.)
Usually USA non-profit organizations require a minimum of THREE trustees, with two acting as President and Treasurer and the third trustess forming the required minimal quorum of three Trustees.
So in this case, since it's all the Kaplan family's money (uncle Tom's, Guma's and Ellen the mother of Guma and sister of Tom) until there is proof to the contrary, one can assume that they have all the corporate, legal, fiscal and spending power and authority in both the EJF (which a legal USA non-profit organization and entity) as in its sponsoring family foundation, the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation.
So now, with uncle Tom firmly under Tropper's spell and Guma under the Chabad spell and presumably Ellen siding with Guma, having gone their separate ways, in one corner there is uncle Tom under the thumb of Tropper's magnetic false messianism as an absolute spiritual leader, and in the other corner is Guma with his Chabad rabbi waving his magic wand over him, connected to its own versions of false messianism.
And from what Guma has been saying openly now, he was always in the Chabad corner (Wow!) and by implication he was NEVER in the Tropper corner, and if that is so it means that both the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation AND EJF have ALWAYS been Chabad-connected by virtue of Guma's self-admissions of being a Chabad Baal teshuva (let us call a spade a spade) and like many Baalei Teshuva today he is married to a gentile woman, because as I have clearly written, Kiruv of today is not what it was forty years ago, see Kiruv I - The end of kiruv as we know it! (July 18, 2008), because symbolically starting with the Reform's acceptance of patrilineal descent (if Guma was Reform, his kids would be "Jewish" even if their mother was gentile) and therefore, added to the rise in general intermarriage, Orthodox Kiruv workers in their outreach to such people came face to face with having to deal with the gentiles married to Jews in their programs. And in effect it has brought about a radical sgift in what Kiruv work enatisl, a confrontaion with conversion issues that goes way beyond just making people "more frum" or observant. It is when reality hits the fan, when an Orthodox, nay Haredi rabbi bumps into the reality of Jews married to or living with gentiles, one of the worst possible sins as far as the Torah, Judaism, Jewish Law and God are concerned. See, Kiruv II - Paradigm change for outreach workers (July 18, 2008)
And in this case we can see various approaches according to Orthodox Judaism (the Reform and Conservative movements, and many secular Jews as well as the Israeli government, have other solutions not recognized by any branches of Orthodoxy):
1) Be tough on the couples and insist that the Jewish partner must become very religious, like a Haredi Jew, and the gentile spouse must convert according to strict Jewish Law (part of the Tropper school of thought, although he takes it a step further and preaches a doctrine of mass reachinbg out and proselytizations to such people.)
2) Reject the couple as has been the tradition in classical Judaism according for millenia. A Jew who willingly, opnly, lovingly, freely, of his/her own free will and volition, is a living in sin as far as the Torah and Classical Judaism is concerened and the Jewish partner cannot come crying to Jewish courts to help him/her correct his mistake when he/she had blundred in the first place. As was the case in the times of Ezra the Prophet, the intermarried Jew could/should be told to divorce his gentile wife/husband and confront Jewish Courts with choices they do wish to make and with leniencies they shall not grant.
3) Try a controversial pragmatic approach with more lenient conversion standards all around. In the context of Israel this was tried by Rabbi Drukman but was shot down by Rav Sherman who is connected to Rav Eliashiv. In the American context where there is freedom of religion and the state of Israel has no say or control, there are some Orthodox rabbis willing to be lenient and even though the couples are not committed to practicing a full Jewish life ab initio, nevertheless, there are those, evidently like Rabbi Bomzer who will grant a conversion based their assessments. It will not be accepted by the Israeli Chief rabbinate and by many Haredi rabbis but according to the lenient rabbis granting such conversions it is a conversion nevertheless by the most lenient religious standards possible, stretching the limits of Jewish Law to the maximum.
So the question now is, what was Guma's role and game plan all along? Was he loyal to the Rav Eliashiv version of EJF that the Haredi public was told and sold to believe, or was he really naive a fifth columnist puppet for Lubavitch since he admits that his rabbi all along was the Chabad rabbi that has its messianist aspirations for the world and not devotee of Rabbi Tropper who hates Chabad, as was the impression that was created but is now proven to be a false illusion?
One can only go with Guma's self-admission and public statements and on that basis Guma can only be described as a true-blue Chabad Baal Teshuva and like many such people, he is one of thousands, maybe even tens of thousands, the numbers are growing,
And all the non-Haredi rabbis who were duped into taking millions of philanthropic dollars and all sorts of funny-money from the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation RUN BY GUMA and went to EJF sponsored concerts RUN BY GUMA deserve to know the TRUTH now that the cat is out of the bag, of how instrumental was Guma in formulating EJF policies, the EJF image and the EJF message? Was he the one behind the fancy-shmansy PR when it came to pushing EJF hype on the Internet as being a new "messianic program", in the sense that it wanted to reach out and proselytize to BILLIONS of gentiles, something that no normal Torah Jew would even dare think let alone espouse, but paid EJF PR hype trumpted that kind of drivel proudly?
How far did and does Guma's reach go into EJF altogether? The Tropper-Kaplan duo owe it to all those rabbis who attended their concerts to tell the truth.
Does Rav Reuven Feinstein know about the Guma-Kaplan split, what did he know and when did he know it, and why didn't he warn others that all was not well with EJF and its mother foundation in Halachic and Hashkfic terms?
Answers are necessary because EJF's 50% lay Co-Leader was a Chabad devotee with the zeal of the converted pushing him all the way and married to a gentile woman who even EJF would not accept, but is now denounced by Ronni/Tropper-Kaplan in an attempt to deflect from their own gross failues of oversight After all wher was Tom Kaplan when Guma was supposedly minding the EJF and Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation store?
It is imperative that all the rabbinic attendees and people at EJF concerts must now become the RECIPIENTS of the full inforamtion and maximum PUBLICITY must be made to expose the EJF frauds. Sadly it was the controversial UOJ blog who first called "EJF" the "Eternal Jewish FRAUD" and we can see why that is so as the horrific Tom Kaplan vs Guma Aguiar family feud erupts into full public view, and it's going to be very ugly causing a major Chillul Hashem no doubt, r"l. But we will all come out the better for it as the truth comes out and the EJF monster is deflated.
Thank you to the host of this blog, Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn/da'as torah for performing a big part of this public service for the safety and welfare of Klal Yisroel in this regard.
Who would have thought that EJF was such a huge fake of an organization with its very lay founders, leaders and guides symbolic of the worst things going on in the Jewish world today: Fallout from assimilation and intermarriage; Conflict over conversions standards; Religious splits; False messianism accusations and more.
RAp's robotic respoonses with his chollent associating anything and everything to tropper and he will associate a snow storm to tropper shows how he has a ax to grind. What is more perplexing is that these issues actualy speak well of tropper and speak ill of his beloved crooks.
ReplyDelete"Tropper can do no wrong, when right under his nose he has Guma running EJF"
bobbeh maysses hysteria! THe RAbbis run Ejf and people l
are in the board as are many people like him in many boards of many institutions.
"Strike guma and the he accuses Guma's wife of being a gentile without a good conversion,"
This is a well known phenomonom by those who know the truth.
"so how come Roni/Tropper didn't make that known and write letters against Guma"
How silly, because there are hundreds of fake conversions by bomzer and there is no point in attacking each one (ki rabim hem vee efshar leportom) but the fight has to waged aganst bomzer and his enablers.
"but it was an American news-reporter relying on freedom of the press that had to tell Klal Yisroel all this bad news".
like a huge stira by this krummer kop! Yuor buddies have hundreds of fake converts and they are not publicized. But they exist and sometimes like when you stupidly use guma to attack troper I call your bluff for what it is.
"So stop carrying on please and just reacting withknee-jerk stupid insults instead of your shoddy technique of creating one red herring distraction after another"
they are not distractions; they show how distorted your hatred has become and how evil becomes virtue and virtue becomes evil by peole like RAP.
. Below are responses starting with "RaP":
"You and otherswanted to implicate tropper and EJf for the Kaplabn family"
"RaP: Um, isn't Kapaln Tropper's chosid and presumably Guma was a close second until something happened, not just about Guma's wife which is a nice excuse. I would take an educated guess and say that Guma had enough of Tropper's ego-mania and bullying methods and told him and Kaplan to go fly a kite".
What does have anything to do with Tropper;s organization being legitimate or not? And the fact is that tropper told guma to fly a kite and did not convert his goyishe wife. and Lypszyc and Bomzer did not tell him to fly a ike; but they sold themselves for his $$$.
"It's understandable that a guy who can make billions in "gasses" won't be fooled by the false "hot air" from the likes of Tropper and many of the rabbis that came to EJF concerts".
zilch nada. What are you trying to say about hundreds of rabbis ?
"and you cast aspersions at tropper for this article about guma's messiahship and you somehow wanted to assoicate as all your sour chollents in this story with tropper as if tropper is responsible for this fight betweren tom and guma."
"RaP: Oh, sure, Tropper is never responsible for anything that he doesn't like."
like he is reponsible for today's sonwstorm. You are an irrational hater of tropper. Whatis the disagreement of escapades betwen the kaplan's put trooper on your crinme list?
" All of a sudden Tropper is an innocent bystander when he has been the biggest and most public Orthodox Jewish beneficiary of the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation that Guma and his Mom founded and run: See The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc.
Incorporated by Guma Aguiar and Ellen Aguiar, The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc. is located at 3130 NE 55th Ct Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308. The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc. was incorporated on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 in the State of FL and is currently active. Elliot P. Borkson represents The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc. as their registered agent. Source: Public Record data from Florida Department of State - Division of Corporations"
Roni: What is this show anything about the organization or tropper's activiies being shady? or about tropper liastening to guma telling him to violate torah or the like that is natural to your buddies like bomzer and co?
"I found it that is corresponds to your irrational hatred of tropper and you "Ax to grind" is to destroy troppe and whatver ejf represents."
"RaP: Chas Vesholom! All that "I" and many others in the Torah world would like to see is Tropper get uninvolved with reaching out to gentiles hitched to Jews."
ROni: What is your call got anything to do with Guma's and TOm disagreement? besides your krummer kop? That is not you real ax to grind. For if you were concerned with that, you would be concerned with real goyim assimilating with jews; that does not bother you; in fact you cover up for those whjo actually bring goyim and assimilate into klal yisroel.
"" This is what the wise call of the Bais Din of the Eidah HaChareids (BADATS) to Rabbi Tropper was all about."
Would this be your concern you would politely ak RAv REuven Feinstein why he supports and is aa partner to this organization? And so many oter choshuver rabbis who were not concerned by his overreacihng to intermarried couples, where there is a jewish partner and they are reaching to those jewish partners etc. Were you cocerned about the gentiles coming to be part of the jewish peopple we would see you railing about the people who bring goyim into klal yisroel. But we see here that you protect them and defend them. So you do not care about the gentiles becoming mixed with the jews. You have some other motive here.
"It's not "me" it's a far more serious matter tha concerns Klal Yisroel, see:
1) Bedatz Letter regarding EJF signed by Gaavad (February 14, 2008), and the original document.
2) Bedatz letter regarding conversion (November 18, 2007), and the original document.
3) Rav Moshe Sternbuch - [Kiruv to Non Jews] Authorized Translation (August 10, 2007), and the original document".
Roni: It is all *one * organization that you could not care abbout other of their calls; you take a hitch and use them to attack your enemy for another reason. For many other leading rabbis from a diverse background are not concered by the fact that he reaches intermarried couples.
"Are you also going to accuse the seven dayanim of the BADATS of having an "irrational hatred" of Tropper?"
Roni:'They follow their pattern in other matters. They are consistent with their worldview by taking such a stance. You however, are inconsistent and a phony, as you protect and defend the influx of goyim and the person who brings many of those goyim. It is clear that your motives stem from the irrational hatred for tropper..
RaP: "Feel free, you have already shown that you/Tropper have little honesty in not just ignoring the THREE official letters from real addresses (not from unknown "P.O. Boxes"), but that you also have the temerity to tzushmetter them and shlog them op"
Roni: How farkrumpt and stupid.
He says "temerity"! Like athe vastmajority who disagree with their stance have the "temerity' to disagree with them. I just pointed out the clear sources from RMF and RCOG how it is consistent and legitiamte. But, you who fakely claim that one cannot have the temerity to argue with BaDAtz and Rav Sternbuch: HOw do you have the temerity to defend bomzer when Rav Sternbuch ruled that the conversions by someone who takes exorbitant fees are null and void?
"because naturally, you/Tropper feel that you are a velt's gaon and can twist Halacha and poskim any which way you like".
before you talk about "twisting" get a tutor to teach you pirush hamilos!
"Noone is going to respect EJF and Tom Kaplan's Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation machlokes with Guma and his side."
Roni: Like the first organization where membders of the board have macghlokess between them and the organization vanishes!! Continue dreming a making a chollent.
RaP:"With all the Chabad elements thrown in, it is Kaplan and Tropper who made up this bitter chollent according to their own recepies,"
Roni: SO stupid, like this fight is some result of tropper's machinations! And if anything, we have a foreign body (Lypscyc) to this issue, getting involved to protect the false messiah which shows more about the sour chollent conconcted by some of your buddies who helped and were part of the fake conversion to guma's wife to milk money from him and to take him away from tropper!
"and don't try to twist even that by saying that people here can't read simple plain English when it's put in black and white by a newspaper reporter that any moron with a 5th grade English education can read for himself and draw the obvious and logical conclusions, that if the mother foundation (the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation) is rotten then all her misbegotten kids stink,"
like any organization that has gotten money in the past from someone who later was proven to a crook shows that all those organizations are rotten! You can close and say that hundreds of organizations who get money from people mechaleley shabbos, ochely trefos, boel niddos, later found to been crooks, all those organiozations stink!
And most importantly: the money that is given to bomzer and lypscyc for his building by this guma shows more on how their organization stinks and is rotten that tropper's taking money from him in THE PAST before he "converted" falsely his goya. Because they got money directly to commit a fraud! They got money for the purpose of kashring a goya to be mixed in klal yisroel!
" like EJF, Horizons and Kol Yaakov that got their money from it with Guma as the mashgiach ruchani and kaspi calling all the shots, till now"
TILL HE DID NOT SUCCEED TO CONVERT HIS GOYA WITH TROPPER! which makes tropper's orgaizatuion NOT rotten; while he gave money to bomzer and lypsyc FOR THE FAKE CONVERSION AND BECAUSE OF THIS FAKE CONVERSION WHICH MAKE *THEIR* ORGANIZATION ROTTEN AND STINKy
"I feel it ppropitious to reveal to you and others that this story beghind this mand and his goyishe wife (Who is NO ruth) is the story that vindicates him and the existence of the eJf!"
"IT is a story that tell us that there is need for an organization that will keep fake covnerters and shikssah bringers to klal yisroel out of commission in their dangerous canceorus job."
"RaP: Such a brainwashed robot it's unbelievable. What do you think, people still want to buy the EJF detergent to kasher goyim when it can't even keep it's own house in order and hides from the world that it's Co-Chairman is cohabiiting with a shiksa wife (according to you) and you expect people to be impressed with your childish immature "revelations" here?"
bnO, KRUMMER KOP AND DISTORTER of fact: People will buy their converts and respect them when they will know that the rabbis on the head of the organization did NOT SELL THEIR SOUL FOR MONEY AND DID NOT ACCEPT A GOYA IN KLAL YISROEL! AND ACTUALLY NO RABBI STATED THAT HIS CONVERTS ARE GOYIM; WHWEREAS YOUR RABBIS HAVE GOTTEN A STAMP OF DISSAPROVAL STATING HOW THEIR CONVERSIONS IS NULL AND VOID and this story where they took guma's to convert after knowing that tropper did not want to convert and after knowing that she does not want to keep shabbos, and they wanted to get a double portion by creating this stonger rift with tropper and taking away his money (the taanug from taking money from someoone else is greater than the taanug of getting 50,000$ and a building) so people who know what happens in real life (and those who read false distortions in the blogs) will not buy the detergengt and fake converts made by bomzer and will not respect rabbis L and the like who commit this fraudulent avera of bringing a goy into klal yisroel for money and power!
"It is therefore pertinent to tell you and your fake buddies:"
RaP: I don't have any buddies. Sorry.
You do!Roni: You are a fake and phony and a fraud
!
"that While they wanted and dremaed that ultimately EJF would covnert Guma's wife; he could not becuase she is and was not ready to keep torah and mtizvot."
"RaP: This is nice news. So for how long was this going on?"
It was probably on his mind foer a long time. But since his wife did not want to commit to keep shabbos, tropper did not convert her!
"Was Guma also maybe sleeping with other women since as you claim he is not religious and his wife is a shiksa and usually those who sleep with one shiksa like to sleep with other shiksa at the same time (to them it's not a stira) since there is no morality guiding them just "the power of love" and all this while rabbonim ":
Roni: like bomzer and lypcyc CONVERTED HIS SHIKSSAH!
rONI:"SO what they Guma do? He summoned some of the enableers and got hold of Bomzer and he covnerted her knowing that she never intended to keep shabbat! And then he gave him a 50,000$ gift and now as it is reported in the news he promised Rabbi L money for a building and the rabbi vouches for this fellow while he gave a stamp of approval for the non jewish lady to be considered jewish."
RaP: Ok, this is interesting, but you notice in all this that Tropper is not taking responsiblity for his MASSIVE failure here, he failed to mekarev Guma, WHY? What went massively wrong?
Roni: shoteh, he DID NOT CONVERT HER. SHOTEH, THIS IS HIS SUCCESS THAT IF THE CONVERT DOES NOT WANT TO KEEP TORAH HE DOES NOT CONVERT HER! THIS IS SUCESS! WHILE BOMZER'S "SUCCESS" AND LYPSYC IS TO BRING ANOTHER SHIKSSAH TO KLAL YISROEL!
"And you are just using that old trick of the red herring distraction to take the spotlight off of Tropper and his aims through EJF by now talking about some lady with a doubtful conversion,"
No, just bringing truth to the lioes and distortions that you spread.
"when there are tens of thousands (even millions perhaps?) like her walking the streets of the world".
Roni: EXactly! and she being the wife of guma and being the "convwert" of bomzer and being rejected by tropper shows that tropper is moral and bomzer and lypsc and RAP and immoral fakers who use their own crimes to attack the one who witheld from commititng their crime!
RAP:"And Tropper's solution is worse, to give those kinds of people ultra-frum conversions so that the problems with them will be even more complicated Halachically and in the real world".
The last thing from you is when you start talking about "halacha". You are am hooretz and bor! His conversions will be valid for there was kabbalat hamitzvot; Bomzer's are goyim!
"i HAVE SAID AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT THRAPE ONE AND ONLY SOLUTION IS TO CREATE AND RUN A SFER YUCHSIN FOR THE WORLD'S 13-14 MILLION JEWS AS TOLD BY RAV ELIASHIV."
RONI:Shtussim vehavolim; it will not stop the conversions of bomzer and will not stop people marrying of their sons to covnerts of bomzer!
RAP:"Stop blaming Bomzer and now Guma's wife for all your problems and hangups and let Tropper face up to what damage he is doing by running around trying to create a tidal wave of super-kosher geirim that will bring a catastrophe to Klala Yisroel."
I'll put the blmae squarely where it belongs! Tropper had to sacrifice himself not to convert guma's wife; Bomzer the false dayan converted this goya!
"It shows how xcorrupt bomzer nad his fellow are to to sell yidishkeyt down the river and shows the heroism of tropper not to allow his soul to be sold for the $$$ that you buddies live for even at the expense of making a mockery and chillul hashem o this magnitude."
RaP: Back to that old mantra "Bomzer is 'evil' vs Tropper is a 'tsadik'" when I say that: BOMZER MAY BE BAD, BUT TROPPER IS DEFINITELY WORSE!!!
Roni: better than your krummer mantra "tropper is evil" and bomzer is the tzadik hador". When Bomzer brings goyim to klal yisroel (as an example guma's wife) and for money and has enablers who take ESSNAN ZONAH MONEY FOR THIS CRIME; while trooper prevents goyim from being part of klal yisroel by doing things that excludes the fake corrupted conversions of bomzer!
"There is no real yiddishkeyt when you seell jewish principles for $$$$ and giving an approval to call a goya a yid is a HUGE CHILLUL HASEHM."
"RaP: We knows this already. Calm down. Don't you get tired of repeating yourself so many times? Say something original for a change already. You are getting boring".
Roni: As long as you put your broken record with your irrational hatred filled with lies i'll put the repetitive record that removes your lies and corruption.
"sINCE YOU ARE A BIG KRUMMER AM HOORRETS AND A FIRST CLASS DISTORTER, you drey and drey and drey with shtussim and havolim. Firsrt you useed the aritcle of the false messiah Guma to attack Tropper and now you krummer defend guma and make sound like a nebechel because his uncle who sides with tropper sides withi him. Typicla of shotehh flip flop in all issues."
RaP: Ever heard of that expression "sticks and stones..." what are you saying, that you can't follow my reasoning? Go back and read everything I wrote and tell me exactly which points don't make sense to you instead of calling me a million and one names that won't make Tropper's big problems and EJF's and uncle Tom shande go away when it is now out in the open and staring you/Tropper and everyone in the eyes."
Roni: Nothing that you write makes sense to attack tropper they way you attack. NOTHING. No maount of long krummer treatises can link tropper with the snowstorm. No amount of distotrtions can allow your krumkeyt to be used to atack tropper in an issue that he is to be commended! you cannot use guma's fight with his uncle to attack tropper when guma's scenario put's tropper in a positive light and put's your heoes as real villains. your long treatises filled with NADA will not change thyose facts.
"But I will tgell you one thing: don't farkrum Rav Eisenstein'spositions: Ask him and he will give an earfull about the huge chillul hashem that this fake covnersion is and what a sham this is and was. Rav Eisenstein letter about Bomzer and his non hllachik conversions spring forth from these kinds of fake conversions that bnomzer and his buddies (whom in another article you bemoaned them when you thought they were associated with tropper but when you find out that they used this fake conversion to shlep out money from guma and thought that they would destroy ejf (two birds with one stone( you somehow shy away from your previous critisim. You know what:? You ax to grind is KNOWN you have some vendetta against tropper and you want to get back at himn by hook ort by crook. Whether you aligned with bomzer to begin with (and come with avengeance becuase tropper revealed the crook) or some other vendetta it does matter."
RaP: This is such a long convoluted slew of words, hope you enjoyed it. You just thrash hither and thither trying to take the focus away from Tropper and his wrong decision to start EJF with uncle Tom by talking about Bomzer, Guma, Guma's wife, me, anything under the sun, but always making Tropper into the "hero" and now saying that Rav Eisenstein is proud of Tropper in spite of the Kaplan/Guma fight that is bringing out so much unflattering information and dirt by uncle Tom himself."
Rav Eisenstein knows and knew about Guma all along! From the begginng. He was not worried about this. Because he knew that tropper would not convert her if she did not want to commit to shabbos. But he will speak the worse of bomzer for making this conversion. He and all rabbis who signed on the condemnation letter and many others who did not know that tropper is commended for not converting the goya and know that bomzer is possul legeruss for converting this woman. You can try to fool those who do not know here in DT but those that are familiar with this (and other cases) know this case is typical of the corruption that bomzer embodies and tropper who rejected the lure of $$$ by the person who gave his organization themoney is commended for his actions!
But I have to tell you "Ax to grind": FIGHT FALSE GERUS!"
RaP: I do. More than you know.
"Those that you defend...you will drey and fardrey about thwe billions that tropper did bnot covnert but you will cover up for the essnan zonanh umchir kelev $$$$that your buddies amass."
RaP: I don't have buddies. Sorry.
"Yuor false and fake insiniations as if Bomzer did not realize that she would not keep torah and mtizvot and it is not his fault that she does not keep now are o\part of your SHEKER EMBODIEMENT! He knew ahead and was told taht she DOES NOT WANT TO KEEP SHABBAT AND SHE IS MECHALEL SHABBOS BEFARHESSYA!"
"RaP: Why do you want to be involved with such shmutz? This conversion business is so ugly, like a sewer,"
yet, you the fake, defend the sewer made by bomzer!
"yet Tropper, like that muppet on Sesame Street that lives in the sewers loves this kind of sewage, "
he engages in a smaller degree of shmutz gto remove and prevent the shmutz perpetrated by your buddies! by those who you protect. It is like making an amptutation toprevent death! But you, the distorter will blame him for clean up of the mess that your friends and collaborators have created!
"All your false and venomous attacks for years round against tropper, i can assure you that you did not make a dent wn stopping him. Because you are not leshem shomayim it will not work. PEople like Rav Eisenstein will never trade tropper for bomzer."
Rap: Who said any of this? You are now being delusional and again twisting words and being an outright liar.
"Rabbonim of itnegrity and yirass shomayim will never TODAY associate with him. You can try as much as you can but ehrliche yidden will not buy it."
"RaP: Ok, fine, he is old he doesn't need anyone's haskomas."
Roni: The krummer in action! Look he defends the guy! He has condemnations!!! about him from all directions, charedi and MO alike!!! and he doesa not need "haskomoss" from the fake gerussen that he makes??? He that the Rabbanut does not accept his gerus, does not need haskonmoss, but tropper and any other serious rabbinical organiation but tropper needs haskomos?
"Stop marching for the $$$$ fake "conversion money fresser! (and get a tuor to know pirush hamiloss for what you call "polisher pilpul". Start learning mishnayot and then gemoroh and then talk about pilpuyl."
RaP: Money is not my motivation and insults are not a substiture for rational, logical, refined, intelligent and cultured discussions.
Roni: Which motivation, whether money or power or both, it is clear from your hysteria and irrational outbursts to link the snowstorms to trooper that you are motivated by one of the two or both!
The new chollent treatise by RAP about conversions attempting to legitimze the conversion of types like bomzer is the most scary thing. He will divert everything and will come to a conclusion that bomzer's approach is a solution.
ReplyDeleteRaP:" nevertheless, there are those, evidently like Rabbi Bomzer who will grant a conversion based their assessments. It will not be accepted by the Israeli Chief rabbinate and by many Haredi rabbis but according to the lenient rabbis granting such conversions it is a conversion nevertheless by the most lenient religious standards possible, stretching the limits of Jewish Law to the maximum."
NO, it is NOT a conversion by the most leninent standards possible! This is the grave danger in the false and deceitful approaches odf RAP and buddies!
No respected Rabbi neither charedi or MO will accept Bomzer's approach of taking money to kasherize a convert who does NOT keep shabbos, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha. And i have other news to tell you: Those who are spouses with such people are also not "baaley teshuva"! as RaP flasely and deceitfully wants to brainwash people! Either the do the approach of Ezra or they at least attempt their spouses to keep torah and mitzvot. As Rav Moshe Feinstein wrote said, the jewish spouses who live the goyishe partner who does not keep torah and Mitzvot are thesmselves most probably and in the majorityo f situations not shomer torah and mitzvot.
It is surprising that the krummer calls this false messiah "baaley teshuva".
And is also surpising how this krummer ferdreys everyone with distorting facts; The facts are that Guma was with Tropper from the begginingof the founding of EJF and hoped that tropper would convert his wife. Maybe tropper thought that with time the wife would be ready to keep torah and mitvot. tghat did not happen. He resorted to other groups and got their rabbis to make this false conversion and now with the aid of the "Rabbi" calls him in the tabloids a "baal teshuva"!
Whatever asnd whichever way one slices this: This story shows how tropper did not sell his soul; did not change the rules of torah; did not bend halacha to be able to fundraise more money! Probably Guma dropped his support as a result of EJF converting this shikssah! If anything it shows that EJf has morals. As opposed to those rabbis in other organizations who use this as a tool to fundraise and to claim that they made "baaley teshuva" of such people are people who endanger klal yisroel by briging goyim into it's midst and bty selling yiddishkeyt for money and power!
The new chollent treatise by RAP about conversions attempting to legitimze the conversion of types like bomzer is the most scary thing. He will divert everything and will come to a conclusion that bomzer's approach is a solution.
ReplyDeleteRaP:" nevertheless, there are those, evidently like Rabbi Bomzer who will grant a conversion based their assessments. It will not be accepted by the Israeli Chief rabbinate and by many Haredi rabbis but according to the lenient rabbis granting such conversions it is a conversion nevertheless by the most lenient religious standards possible, stretching the limits of Jewish Law to the maximum."
NO, it is NOT a conversion by the most leninent standards possible! This is the grave danger in the false and deceitful approaches odf RAP and buddies!
No respected Rabbi neither charedi or MO will accept Bomzer's approach of taking money to kasherize a convert who does NOT keep shabbos, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha. And i have other news to tell you: Those who are spouses with such people are also not "baaley teshuva"! as RaP flasely and deceitfully wants to brainwash people! Either the do the approach of Ezra or they at least attempt their spouses to keep torah and mitzvot. As Rav Moshe Feinstein wrote said, the jewish spouses who live the goyishe partner who does not keep torah and Mitzvot are thesmselves most probably and in the majorityo f situations not shomer torah and mitzvot.
It is surprising that the krummer calls this false messiah "baaley teshuva".
And is also surpising how this krummer ferdreys everyone with distorting facts; The facts are that Guma was with Tropper from the begginingof the founding of EJF and hoped that tropper would convert his wife. Maybe tropper thought that with time the wife would be ready to keep torah and mitvot. tghat did not happen. He resorted to other groups and got their rabbis to make this false conversion and now with the aid of the "Rabbi" calls him in the tabloids a "baal teshuva"!
Whatever asnd whichever way one slices this: This story shows how tropper did not sell his soul; did not change the rules of torah; did not bend halacha to be able to fundraise more money! Probably Guma dropped his support as a result of EJF converting this shikssah! If anything it shows that EJf has morals. As opposed to those rabbis in other organizations who use this as a tool to fundraise and to claim that they made "baaley teshuva" of such people are people who endanger klal yisroel by briging goyim into it's midst and bty selling yiddishkeyt for money and power!
In response to poster Roni/Tropper, my responses start below with "RaP":
ReplyDelete"RAp's robotic respoonses"
RaP: You stole my phrase ("robotic") right there, that's plagiarism!
"with his chollent associating anything and everything to tropper and he will associate a snow storm to tropper"
RaP: No I will not. Now you are getting silly as a result of your desperation.
"shows how he has a ax to grind."
RaP: That is another phrase of mine ("axe to grind") you have stolen. Nothing original in your head, just orders to defend Tropper at all costs, like an automaton.
"What is more perplexing is that these issues actualy speak well of tropper and speak ill of his beloved crooks."
RaP: Nothing "perplexing" here when Tom Kaplan, attached at the hip to Tropper as always, is caught with his pants down that their nephew/talmid Guma the Golem refused to follow their way and rebelled. Is that something to be proud off, so they yell against "crooks" just like Nixon wailed "I am not a crook."
"bobbeh maysses hysteria! THe RAbbis run Ejf and people l
are in the board as are many people like him in many boards of many institutions."
RaP: Oh yeah? But the rabbis don't cut the philanthropic checks and the rabbis are the ones who got the money from Kaplan and Guma, and now it turns out behind the scenes Guma and his wife were refusing to go along with EJF's own mission-statement all while EJF was gathering rabbis to preach the new forbidden proseltyizing gospel of converting the gentile spouses and partners, the very proselytising that EJF/Tropper/Kaplan/Guma promoted, look who is really fardreying now, and it's not me.
"Strike guma and the he accuses Guma's wife of being a gentile without a good conversion,"
This is a well known phenomonom by those who know the truth."
RaP: What "truth"? You gotta be kidding, it took two lawsuits that noone even heard about and a newspaper reporter to make the truth come into the open, that EJF was a hypocritical organization, preaching one thing for the world while accepting and staying silent for years that Guma its Co-Chairman (and who is still officially is Co-Chairman) was married to a gentile who REFUSED to get converted. What a total sham and hypocrisy, they don't come bigger, and this is not "hysteria" it's just the facts.
"so how come Roni/Tropper didn't make that known and write letters against Guma"
How silly,"
RaP: Oh, it's "silly" now is it? What is "silly" that hundreds of rabbonim were duped at EJF concerts by Kaplan/Tropper/Guma when their own EJF house was corrupt that one of their own at the top was refusing to go along with the standards and guidelines of the holier-than-thou-conversions organization even while he was Co-Chairman and writing the checks to sponsor the rabbis. It is not "silly" to point this sheer madness out to the world, to see how morally duplicitous Tropper/Kaplan/Guma are and it's clear in the way Kaplan is accusing Guma now of being an underhanded double-dealer and crook. Tropper was in the company of crooks and took their money as long as he was getting famous from it, now that he is getting infamous from it he claims he had nothing to do with it. Now that is a neat trick, don't you think?
"because there are hundreds of fake conversions by bomzer and there is no point in attacking each one (ki rabim hem vee efshar leportom) but the fight has to waged aganst bomzer and his enablers."
RaP: This discussion is how Tropper/Kaplan/Guma/EJf kept their mouths tightly shut for years while they preached a gospel of proselytizing to gentiles hitched to Jews. Stop bringing everything back to Bomzer in red-herring style. Bomzer performs problematic boderline conversions at best and passul ones at worst, but way before Guma&Wife&Kids got to Bomzer they were with Tropper and Kaplan and EJF in a LEADERSHIP position yet and nothing was said to anyone about this hypocratic situation. Imagine if you went to a yeshiva and attended the shiurim and trusted the Rosh Yeshiva and one day it turns out that the Co-Chairman of the Board was found to be living with a goy who refused to get a Halachic conversion for years. How many talmidim would trust that Rosh Yeshiva and his mossad for hashkofa and halacha yet this is just what Tropper the Rosh Yeshiva of Kol Yaakov yeshiva is asking, that people should believe that his Co-Chairman giving him tens of millions for his yeshiva, outreach programs and EJF that DID receive HUGE funding from Guma's Lillian Jean Kaplan foundation said nothing while people thought everyone was truly above board and ehrlich. Disgusting!
"but it was an American news-reporter relying on freedom of the press that had to tell Klal Yisroel all this bad news".
like a huge stira by this krummer kop!"
RaP: What's krum, when you are the one that mocks the fact that in America people have freedom of religion and freedom of the press which I just point out makes it impossible to crush people like Bomzer in the absolute because the laws of Israel do not guide America.
"Yuor buddies have hundreds of fake converts and they are not publicized."
RaP: Who is even talking about that? Can't you stick to one subject? The subject is Guma and EJF and Kaplan's actions against Guma and where Tropper fits into this and it's not about a universal discussion about all fake geirus which is a connected but separate topic. Do I have to teach you about Venn Diagrams again so that you should not make chollents out of subjects that make you squirm?
"But they exist and sometimes like when you stupidly use guma to attack troper I call your bluff for what it is."
RaP: What stupidity? Is it stupid to ask what was going on when Guma was writing the checks from the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation to Tropper and to EJF and then in his capacity as Co-Chairman at EJF Guma empowers Tropper to be the big macher on the dais getting all the rabbis to come to the concerts. It's a straight line, or one tight closed circle, from Kaplan to Guma to Tropper to EJF to the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation and back. Don't hack in kop, we are not stupid.
"So stop carrying on please and just reacting withknee-jerk stupid insults instead of your shoddy technique of creating one red herring distraction after another"
they are not distractions; they show how distorted your hatred has become and how evil becomes virtue and virtue becomes evil by peole like RAP."
RaP: What "hatred" what "evil" such hypebole, don't you know how to deal with simple straightforward questions? Grow up!
"Below are responses starting with "RaP":
"You and otherswanted to implicate tropper and EJf for the Kaplabn family"
RaP: Baloney! Tropper did this to himself! He did not tell people that the leadership of EJF was at war with itself and a huge fraud because Guma it's Co-Chairman writing the checks was married to a shiksa who refused to convert. That Guma went to Bomzer was later.
"RaP: Um, isn't Kapaln Tropper's chosid and presumably Guma was a close second until something happened, not just about Guma's wife which is a nice excuse. I would take an educated guess and say that Guma had enough of Tropper's ego-mania and bullying methods and told him and Kaplan to go fly a kite".
What does have anything to do with Tropper;s organization being legitimate or not?"
RaP: If you don't get it, or are acting deliberately dumb, you are to be pitied. It is takke a rachmonnes on you that you are so morally bankrupt and functionally stupid.
"And the fact is that tropper told guma to fly a kite and did not convert his goyishe wife. and Lypszyc and Bomzer did not tell him to fly a ike; but they sold themselves for his $$$."
RaP: Whoa. One step at a time. Why was such a person like Guma allowed to be the lay co-head of EJF with as much power (or maybe more, since Guma ran the Kaplan Foundation) as Kaplan? Don't you think that the rabbonim who went there deserve to be told, how they were manipulated for other means, such as plans to proselytise to billions of gentiles.
"It's understandable that a guy who can make billions in "gasses" won't be fooled by the false "hot air" from the likes of Tropper and many of the rabbis that came to EJF concerts".
zilch nada. What are you trying to say about hundreds of rabbis ?"
RaP: That they were hoodwinked and fooled by Tropper/Kaplan/Guma/EJF. It's that simple
"like he is reponsible for today's sonwstorm. You are an irrational hater of tropper."
RaP: Sure, according to you only Tropper is rational, it's the world that's crazy, right? This is a sure sign of delusions/illusions of grandeur.
"Whatis the disagreement of escapades betwen the kaplan's put trooper on your crinme list?"
RaP: You gotta be kidding right? Tropper is Kaplan's super-rebbe. Guma is Kaplan's super nephew. Super rebbe meet super nephew, but super nephew is married to super shiksa, and super shiksa thinks that super rebbe stinks, she doesn't want a super frum conversion, super rebbe fails to convince super shiksa to convert the super religious ejf way, so super nephew and his super shiksa wife go to the other super conversion rebbe and everyone lives happily ever after except super rebbe who hates the super conversion rebbe, while super nephew runs off with super uncle's riches and with his super shiksa somewhat converted wife they move to Israel for more adventures as super nephew hands out more super money to the Jewish masses as super uncle and super rebbe hit the roof and go to court as this becomes a supre stink in the papers and online as well as a super Chillul Hashem.
"Roni: What is this show anything about the organization or tropper's activiies being shady? or about tropper liastening to guma telling him to violate torah or the like that is natural to your buddies like bomzer and co?"
RaP: Noone said that Guma told Tropper anything. What is being said is that Tropper was hiding the fact the EJF was headed by someone like Guma who, while generously funding it with tens of millions of dollars, was living a life that contradicted its very mission. That is called a split-personality and of being liars to the public by giving the impression that gevaldigge lay people were at the head of EJF when it was the opposite, as Kaplan says himself as he sues Guma. This puts Tropper in a horrible situation, and you are just painting him as an "innocent bystander" when he knew all along what the story was and kept it to himself -- until now -- when he is caught with his mass conversions of the goyim pants all the way down to the ground.
"ROni: What is your call got anything to do with Guma's and TOm disagreement? besides your krummer kop? That is not you real ax to grind. For if you were concerned with that, you would be concerned with real goyim assimilating with jews; that does not bother you; in fact you cover up for those whjo actually bring goyim and assimilate into klal yisroel."
RaP: I am concerned with all of the above, but unlike you I try to keep a discussion logical and focused and on one subject without trying to derail it as if by saying that "the world stinks, so Tropper is not bad by trying to save a few souls", which is not an argument, except for a devious twister like you.
"Would this be your concern you would politely ak RAv REuven Feinstein why he supports and is aa partner to this organization?"
RaP: What's he saying and thinking about Guma and uncle Tom now that it's out in the news? That he took money from Guma and now thinks he is no good? It won't be pleasant.
"And so many oter choshuver rabbis who were not concerned by his overreacihng to intermarried couples, where there is a jewish partner and they are reaching to those jewish partners etc."
RaP: this is your truly krummer "heter" of converting goyim by the fistful to "save" the Jewish partners. It's one of the worst ideas to hit Judaism since the Sabbateans (Shabtai Tzvi was also a big lamden and illui, a real talmid chochem shoiteh like Tropper) and it will suffer the same fate and go down in flames, as it already now has.
"Were you cocerned about the gentiles coming to be part of the jewish peopple we would see you railing about the people who bring goyim into klal yisroel."
RaP: I do, and Tropper is one of the worst, because he is bringing in "glat kosher goyim with his falshe contrived EJF non-hechsher"!
"But we see here that you protect them and defend them. So you do not care about the gentiles becoming mixed with the jews. You have some other motive here."
RaP: You are so tiresome, I wonder why I even bother discussing with you. Tropper runs to bring goyim to Klal Yisroel and then says that others are doing it the "wrong" way, now that is what is called chutzpa.
"Roni: It is all *one * organization that you could not care abbout other of their calls; you take a hitch and use them to attack your enemy for another reason. For many other leading rabbis from a diverse background are not concered by the fact that he reaches intermarried couples."
RaP: Now that the attacks by Kaplan against Guma are out in the open, and Guma is running around with his own delusions of grandeur while he has wife with a doubtful conversion, and these two are still the Co-Heads of both EJF and the Kaplan Foundation you/Tropper have lost all credibility and you can count on many more rabbis seeing the wisdom of the BADATS's and Rav Shterbuch's stand against Tropper and EJF all the way back!
"Are you also going to accuse the seven dayanim of the BADATS of having an "irrational hatred" of Tropper?"
Roni:'They follow their pattern in other matters. They are consistent with their worldview by taking such a stance. You however, are inconsistent and a phony, as you protect and defend the influx of goyim and the person who brings many of those goyim. It is clear that your motives stem from the irrational hatred for tropper.."
RaP: The reverse is true, it is Tropper's problem not mine, Tropper himself is an ultra-Charedi rabbi and then sets the example that it is OK to brush off what the holy Eidah HaChareidis says and paskens a heter shel shtus that contradicts all his values and what he stands for and sets the worst possible example to his disciples, that it's ok to ignore and make light of a Charedi Bais Din. While Bomzer is from YU so would anyone think that he should follow Charedi points of view, if RCA rabbis have a problem with him, it's for them to act, not for Tropper to twist their arms. That is all I am saying. I do not support or condone Bomzer. Tropper is a greater danger to the CHAREDI and a hypocrite to boot who will take money from a man married to a shiksa as he tells the world that EJF will save the world from people married to shiksas.
RaP: "Feel free, you have already shown that you/Tropper have little honesty in not just ignoring the THREE official letters from real addresses (not from unknown "P.O. Boxes"), but that you also have the temerity to tzushmetter them and shlog them op"
Roni: How farkrumpt and stupid.
He says "temerity"! Like athe vastmajority who disagree with their stance have the "temerity' to disagree with them. I just pointed out the clear sources from RMF and RCOG how it is consistent and legitiamte. But, you who fakely claim that one cannot have the temerity to argue with BaDAtz and Rav Sternbuch: HOw do you have the temerity to defend bomzer when Rav Sternbuch ruled that the conversions by someone who takes exorbitant fees are null and void?"
RaP: You are so twisted it's not funny. I do not speak for anyone. The BADATS speaks for itself and Tropper should be taking note of it. Bomzer also acts for himself and it behooves a person to see what the merits or demerits are of what he does. He is not just a money grabber and Tropper is some saint who has taken the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. Before Tropper can come to destroy Bomzer, a very serious matter, he needs to come up with more than just a letter signed by a few out of town rabbis with not even a street address on it, just two "P.O. Boxes" while when the BADATS and Rav Shternbuch came with its declarations against Tropper and the EJF they did so in their capacity as a fully recognized and functional Bais Din of the Eidah HaChareidis sitting at a known place with a proper address. This is just an objective overview of some of the sides in this dispute, so stop attributing to me things that have nothing to do with my personal views or positions. Two sides of a machlokes involving Orthodox rabbonim means that there are two sides, not just one side and the other side is "criminal" or "evil" or "crooked" as if it's war between two totally equal sides on the up and up when it's not, simply because both Tropper AND Bomzer carry a lot of baggage and controversy with them. That is why Tropper needs to get out of this conversions business and let more rational, less tainted and honest people deal with the issues without his hot-headed and twisted agendas interfering every step of the way.
"because naturally, you/Tropper feel that you are a velt's gaon and can twist Halacha and poskim any which way you like".
before you talk about "twisting" get a tutor to teach you pirush hamilos!"
RaP: More sticks and stones instead of rational discussions.
"Noone is going to respect EJF and Tom Kaplan's Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation machlokes with Guma and his side."
Roni: Like the first organization where membders of the board have macghlokess between them and the organization vanishes!! Continue dreming a making a chollent."
RaP: It's not a dream. The news just broke, it's gonna work itself through the rabbonishe community and they will not be happy campers when they hear what has happened between the heretofore vaunted Co-Chairmen of EJF and the Kaplan Foundation.
"Roni: SO stupid, like this fight is some result of tropper's machinations! And if anything, we have a foreign body (Lypscyc) to this issue, getting involved to protect the false messiah"
RaP: So now it's you/Tropper saying that Guma is "the false messiah" -- you/Tropper should know, since you suffer from the same syndrome and Guma may have caught it from you/Tropper in the first place.
"which shows more about the sour chollent conconcted by some of your buddies who helped and were part of the fake conversion to guma's wife to milk money from him and to take him away from tropper!"
RaP: So here we see Tropper crying at full speed. Tough to see your/Tropper's/Kaplan's money go that way, isn't it? Hashem sure knows how to hit you midda keneged midda where it hurts most!
"like any organization that has gotten money in the past from someone who later was proven to a crook shows that all those organizations are rotten! You can close and say that hundreds of organizations who get money from people mechaleley shabbos, ochely trefos, boel niddos, later found to been crooks, all those organiozations stink!"
RaP: You know, not too long ago when I tried to make a similar argument that EJF Batei Din were not guaranteed to be great because Batei Din in general have problms with Dayanim taking payments from husbands in get cases or in other dinei Torah, you just poo-pood it(to use one of your phrases) but when it comes to defend EJF you use the exact same argument to "defend" EJF. This is not just about crooks, it's about the very mission of EJF that it was promoting an idea of converting gentile spouses when its Co-Chairman was not just married to a gentile but a gentile who refused to go by EJF guidelines. That's the real shande, and you can't deny it or run away from it no matter how you will try to twist and turn.
"And most importantly: the money that is given to bomzer and lypscyc for his building by this guma shows more on how their organization stinks and is rotten that tropper's taking money from him in THE PAST before he "converted" falsely his goya. Because they got money directly to commit a fraud! They got money for the purpose of kashring a goya to be mixed in klal yisroel!"
RaP: You're always putting the focus of the camera back to Bomzer when lechatchila it was Tropper and Kaplan by hiding the truth about Guma and his wife who were the frauds and betrayed its mission statement at the very time they were selling their sour chollents of converting goying to rabbonim. Not just a shande, but a shanda and a charpa!
"TILL HE DID NOT SUCCEED TO CONVERT HIS GOYA WITH TROPPER! which makes tropper's orgaizatuion NOT rotten; while he gave money to bomzer and lypsyc FOR THE FAKE CONVERSION AND BECAUSE OF THIS FAKE CONVERSION WHICH MAKE *THEIR* ORGANIZATION ROTTEN AND STINKy"
RaP: But my dear Roni/Tropper, all this time, before during and after, while Guma is the Co-Chairman of both EJF and its mother the Kaplan Foundation that is bringing rabbonim to free concerts and doing PR on the Internet to bring in intermarried goyim, a real hypocrisy and it is YOU/TROPPER who created the Guma the Golem Frankenstein that is now coming to haunt you all and make the world nervous. It's not going to be a pretty story, no matter what happens from now on.
"bnO, KRUMMER KOP AND DISTORTER of fact: People will buy their converts and respect them when they will know that the rabbis on the head of the organization did NOT SELL THEIR SOUL FOR MONEY AND DID NOT ACCEPT A GOYA IN KLAL YISROEL! AND ACTUALLY NO RABBI STATED THAT HIS CONVERTS ARE GOYIM; WHWEREAS YOUR RABBIS HAVE GOTTEN A STAMP OF DISSAPROVAL STATING HOW THEIR CONVERSIONS IS NULL AND VOID and this story where they took guma's to convert after knowing that tropper did not want to convert and after knowing that she does not want to keep shabbos, and they wanted to get a double portion by creating this stonger rift with tropper and taking away his money (the taanug from taking money from someoone else is greater than the taanug of getting 50,000$ and a building) so people who know what happens in real life (and those who read false distortions in the blogs) will not buy the detergengt and fake converts made by bomzer and will not respect rabbis L and the like who commit this fraudulent avera of bringing a goy into klal yisroel for money and power!"
RaP: This is a good chunk of news for the world. It would have more credibility if you could explain how you let such a man like Guma be YOUR and EJF's lay co-leader and why you took tens of millions of dollars from him if you hated him and his wife????? Shotteh and Roshe and Ganef!
"It is therefore pertinent to tell you and your fake buddies:"
RaP: I don't have any buddies. Sorry.
You do!Roni: You are a fake and phony and a fraud"
RaP: Blah, bla, bla, stop screaming and say intelligent things instead of acting like trapped rabbit.
"RaP: This is nice news. So for how long was this going on?"
It was probably on his mind foer a long time. But since his wife did not want to commit to keep shabbos, tropper did not convert her!"
RaP: And to think it took two legal cases in court and one lone newspaper report in Florida to make this known to the world when it is a matter of grave importance to all thos rabbis who came to EJF concerts. Shame on you/Tropper for hiding this from them and for waiting till it came to court cases and newspaper reports for the world to learn the truth what EJF and the Kaplan-Guma team are all about! Curruption, deception and fraud wrapped into one!
"Was Guma also maybe sleeping with other women since as you claim he is not religious and his wife is a shiksa and usually those who sleep with one shiksa like to sleep with other shiksa at the same time (to them it's not a stira) since there is no morality guiding them just "the power of love" and all this while rabbonim ":
Roni: like bomzer and lypcyc CONVERTED HIS SHIKSSAH!"
RaP: Robot, why are all your responses coming out with the words "Bomzer" in them as if he has imprinted himself on your brain? You are sounding totally fixated and unreasonabale when you carry on like this.
"RaP: Ok, this is interesting, but you notice in all this that Tropper is not taking responsiblity for his MASSIVE failure here, he failed to mekarev Guma, WHY? What went massively wrong?
Roni: shoteh, he DID NOT CONVERT HER. SHOTEH, THIS IS HIS SUCCESS THAT IF THE CONVERT DOES NOT WANT TO KEEP TORAH HE DOES NOT CONVERT HER! THIS IS SUCESS! WHILE BOMZER'S "SUCCESS" AND LYPSYC IS TO BRING ANOTHER SHIKSSAH TO KLAL YISROEL!"
RaP: In spite of your red-herring name calling, you still have not answered the question of what went wrong and why was Tropper not able to MEKAREV Guma himself? Why couldn't Tropper persuade Mrs. Guma to follow him and convert the EJF way? It is this failure that's caused the public disgrace of EJF/Tropper/Kaplan as Guma went South and to Israel to find a solution that worked for him. The issue of the conversion is secondary to the issue of why Tropper couln't mekarev Guma enough to even force him to divorce his goyisha wife as Tropper has succeeded with other of his disciples. This is a true story of what went wrong and all the throwing of insults at people will not stop the questions from being asked and good answers to be forthcoming.
"No, just bringing truth to the lioes and distortions that you spread."
RaP: Truth? Sure, the only "truth" you/Tropper know is that Tropper can do no wrong and anyone who questions him is "evil" or "criminal" or "greedy" all very poor arguments.
"when there are tens of thousands (even millions perhaps?) like her walking the streets of the world".
Roni: EXactly! and she being the wife of guma and being the "convwert" of bomzer and being rejected by tropper shows that tropper is moral and bomzer and lypsc and RAP and immoral fakers who use their own crimes to attack the one who witheld from commititng their crime!"
RaP: But Tropper is the ONLY one who had the chance to mekarev Guma right and persuade his Mrs. Guma to get the right EJF conversion, and he failed, with now disastrous consequences, so to cover up Tropper's failure the whole universe is blamed instead.
"The last thing from you is when you start talking about "halacha". You are am hooretz and bor! His conversions will be valid for there was kabbalat hamitzvot; Bomzer's are goyim!"
RaP: Does the State of Israel fully accept Tropper's converts yet? Last anyone has heard they don't. So it means that EJF's conversions, for all their hype, are not halachically valid by Israel's standards.
"i HAVE SAID AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT THRAPE ONE AND ONLY SOLUTION IS TO CREATE AND RUN A SFER YUCHSIN FOR THE WORLD'S 13-14 MILLION JEWS AS TOLD BY RAV ELIASHIV."
RONI:Shtussim vehavolim; it will not stop the conversions of bomzer and will not stop people marrying of their sons to covnerts of bomzer!"
RaP: Noone can stop people from doing anything in the modern world, get that through your head, excepet in Iran, people are not living under Mullas and theocracies. The only way you can get results from people is by getting them to be motivated voluntarily to do the right thing, and not by frightening the heck out of people in the Tropper my-way-or-the-highway style. A registery for Sefer Yuchsin was proposed by none other than Rav Eliashiv, where all Jews would voluntarily put their names in a data base, do not disgrace the idea.
"I'll put the blmae squarely where it belongs!"
RaP: Put the blame on Tropper for failing to mekarev Guma, for failing to get Mrs. Guma to convert right, and for failing to inform the major rabbonim at EJF concerts of what going on and that they had to find out in very ugly ways from news online. Tropper is the chief rabbi of EJF, as he never tires of reminding the world, and as such the buck stops with him. That Guma then left him and went away is not something Tropper can blame as being a retrocatice self-recommendation and a fake vindication for what was actually a huge blunder.
"Tropper had to sacrifice himself not to convert guma's wife; Bomzer the false dayan converted this goya!"
RaP: Always this crazy justaposition between Tropper and Bomzer as if that is the only way the world must look at this. Tropper is responsible for pushing Guma and his wife away when as their rabbi he should have mekareved Guma more (obviously he failed), Tropper also persuage Mrs. guma to convert (another failure for Tropper), all while Tropper was taking Guma's millions, and then Tropper added insult to injury and failed to inform the rabbonim coming to EJF concerts that the EJF Co-Chair Guma is s fraud and a traitor to the EJF cause.
"Roni: better than your krummer mantra "tropper is evil"
RaP: No, Tropper is not an evil man, he is just very troubled! Hee needs chill-pills badly.
"and bomzer is the tzadik hador"
RaP: No, Bomzer is just a retired Young Israel rabbi, an old time Talmud professor at YU and a person who claims to have a mandate to be involved with conversions from the last Lubavitcher Rebbe. Not a gadol of anything by any means. Basically a controversial elderly Modern Orthodox retired congregational rabbi still performing conversions disputed by some other rabbis.
"When Bomzer brings goyim to klal yisroel (as an example guma's wife) and for money and has enablers who take ESSNAN ZONAH MONEY FOR THIS CRIME; while trooper prevents goyim from being part of klal yisroel by doing things that excludes the fake corrupted conversions of bomzer!"
RaP: I feel like I am having a discussion with a brainwashed communist who spouts slogans instead of making rational points.
"Roni: As long as you put your broken record with your irrational hatred filled with lies i'll put the repetitive record that removes your lies and corruption."
RaP: That we can see.
"Roni: Nothing that you write makes sense to attack tropper they way you attack. NOTHING. No maount of long krummer treatises can link tropper with the snowstorm. No amount of distotrtions can allow your krumkeyt to be used to atack tropper in an issue that he is to be commended!"
RaP: Let the readers decide all that, ok? You are too one-sided with your knee-jerk defenses of Tropper.
"you cannot use guma's fight with his uncle to attack tropper"
RaP: Not to "attack" Tropper, but to ask question, like where was Tropper when all this was going on? Not unreasonable. Tropper can't publish photos of Kaplan following him like a puppy and then claim that Kaplan is on his own especially when it's part of the EJF mission.
"when guma's scenario put's tropper in a positive light"
RaP: Only in your brain.
"and put's your heoes as real villains. your long treatises filled with NADA will not change thyose facts."
RaP: You are the last one who appreciates facts when to you people not on your/Troppper's team are "villians" and "criminals" and "evil" something that no sane or reasoinable person says in civilized, rational and cultured sicussions. That's the way Hamas and the Ayatolas talk. Shame on you.
"Rav Eisenstein knows and knew about Guma all along! From the begginng. He was not worried about this. Because he knew that tropper would not convert her if she did not want to commit to shabbos. But he will speak the worse of bomzer for making this conversion. He and all rabbis who signed on the condemnation letter and many others who did not know that tropper is commended for not converting the goya and know that bomzer is possul legeruss for converting this woman. You can try to fool those who do not know here in DT but those that are familiar with this (and other cases) know this case is typical of the corruption that bomzer embodies and tropper who rejected the lure of $$$ by the person who gave his organization themoney is commended for his actions!"
RaP: Rav Eisenstein is making it known by the OFFICIAL distance he keeps from EJF that he is not happy with it, and we can see why now with the Guma-Kaplan Chillul Hashem on the go. But wait, am I missing something here, isn't Guma the head of the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation that was giving tens of millions of dollars to Tropper's Kol Yaakov yeshiva, to his outreach Horizons programs, to EJF and to the EJF concerts for rabbis and to gentiles hitched to Jews at hotels all TO DO FORBIDDEN PROSELYTIZATION, all in the tens of millions of dollars to the DIRECT benefit of Tropper and from which he got salaries, free trips and much PR, and you have the chutzpa of accusing Bomzer of taking a few crumbs from Guma when Guma gave tens of millions to Tropper and to Tropper's programs. You really must think people are stupid and are not paying attention as while you accuse others of chollents you come up with super king size geneivishe chollents of your own. Shame on you.
"Yuor false and fake insiniations as if Bomzer did not realize that she would not keep torah and mtizvot and it is not his fault that she does not keep now are o\part of your SHEKER EMBODIEMENT! He knew ahead and was told taht she DOES NOT WANT TO KEEP SHABBAT AND SHE IS MECHALEL SHABBOS BEFARHESSYA!"
RaP: Bomzer's wrongs do not forgive Tropper's blunders!
"RaP: Why do you want to be involved with such shmutz? This conversion business is so ugly, like a sewer,"
yet, you the fake, defend the sewer made by bomzer!"
RaP: You are the one that introduces the topic of Bomzer and if someone asks you some questions about it, you get hysterical and curse and lash out. That is really funny. A logician you are not!
"yet Tropper, like that muppet on Sesame Street that lives in the sewers loves this kind of sewage, "
he engages in a smaller degree of shmutz gto remove and prevent the shmutz perpetrated by your buddies! by those who you protect. It is like making an amptutation toprevent death! But you, the distorter will blame him for clean up of the mess that your friends and collaborators have created!"
RaP: Sure back to that "chet kal is better than a chet chamur" farkrumte philosophy that should be burned with your falshe and apikursishe sefer Torah that in the name of saving "millions" of Jews hitched to gentiles you will invite the gentiles to become glatt-kosher-holier-than-thou converts when you can't even persuade your main supporter who gave you millions to come up with this cockamamy project to start with. Shame on you.
"Rabbonim of itnegrity and yirass shomayim will never TODAY associate with him. You can try as much as you can but ehrliche yidden will not buy it."
RaP: Sure, and you think that people are going to be crowning Tropper as the next moshiach as well, don't you? For all the damage he has done and plans to do. Look at how Tropper has already fardreyed Kaplan and Guma and how the world is already suffering from it and the Chillul Hashem that now arises like a monster with the Kaplan Foundation in tatters with uncle Tom accusing Guma of false messianism, of Guma not getting a good conversion for his wife and moving to Israel with his grandiose Golem plans. This is all Tropper's fault because he could have stopped it, and like when there is a fire you alert the people and call the fire brigade and you do not keep it a secret that there is a fire in the heart of Klal Yisroel. Bomzer everybody knows about, but now Tropper will be seen for the real trouble make and fake usurper that he is! Shame on you.
"RaP: Ok, fine, he is old he doesn't need anyone's haskomas."
Roni: The krummer in action! Look he defends the guy! He has condemnations!!! about him from all directions, charedi and MO alike!!! and he doesa not need "haskomoss" from the fake gerussen that he makes??? He that the Rabbanut does not accept his gerus, does not need haskonmoss, but tropper and any other serious rabbinical organiation but tropper needs haskomos?"
RaP: Right, everybody needs haskomas, but while Bomzer is not looking for them, Tropper has NOT EVEN PRODUCED them in writing in any way for either himself or EJF (besides a shvache strashe the vantsen letter against Bomzer but not for Tropper or EJF), just the rabbis who came to the fake Guma sponsored EJF concerts!
"Roni: Which motivation, whether money or power or both, it is clear from your hysteria and irrational outbursts to link the snowstorms to trooper that you are motivated by one of the two or both!"
RaP: Oh, so now, the Guma-Kaplan scandal is like an innocent "snowstorm" -- this is just more silly red-herrings from you and noone will buy it, as the EJF/Kaplan Foundation/Rome burn and you/Tropper fiddle.
"Roni said...
The new chollent treatise by RAP about conversions attempting to legitimze the conversion of types like bomzer is the most scary thing. He will divert everything and will come to a conclusion that bomzer's approach is a solution."
RaP: Bomzer exists, get over that, I did not invent him. He also needs to be understood. Everyone deserves a fair hearing, even the top Nazis were tried fairly at Nuremburg, not Tropper-style back alley bullying (in)justice. Bomzer may be wrong, but Tropper is brutal, no wonder he lost Guma and Guma's wife Jamie, and now look at the consequences (as you/Tropper twist and turn like a trapped shark biting the net and not realizing you/Tropper only have yourself to blame for running after and enjoying the tainted goyishe forbidden bait of the Guma-Kaplan riches.)
"RaP:" nevertheless, there are those, evidently like Rabbi Bomzer who will grant a conversion based their assessments. It will not be accepted by the Israeli Chief rabbinate and by many Haredi rabbis but according to the lenient rabbis granting such conversions it is a conversion nevertheless by the most lenient religious standards possible, stretching the limits of Jewish Law to the maximum."
NO, it is NOT a conversion by the most leninent standards possible! This is the grave danger in the false and deceitful approaches odf RAP and buddies!"
RaP: You can't seem to halt kop, I cited three current-day approaches, your's/Tropper's included. There is not only one way that this is being dealt with and I am not making that up. Whether you or I like it or not there is also a Modern Orthodox way that is out there in the world. You may hate it, but they are doing it. It is not a crime to describe that and to try to understand what their view is. To talk about something and try to understand it does not mean you agree with it. You have obviously never taken an academic class in anything in your life, just screaming and shouting as if you wanted to destroy one chavrusa after another. Sorry, not everthing in the world works that way.
"No respected Rabbi neither charedi or MO will accept Bomzer's approach of taking money to kasherize a convert who does NOT keep shabbos, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha. And i have other news to tell you: Those who are spouses with such people are also not "baaley teshuva"! as RaP flasely and deceitfully wants to brainwash people! Either the do the approach of Ezra or they at least attempt their spouses to keep torah and mitzvot. As Rav Moshe Feinstein wrote said, the jewish spouses who live the goyishe partner who does not keep torah and Mitzvot are thesmselves most probably and in the majorityo f situations not shomer torah and mitzvot."
RaP: That is just one view, yours, it is not every last Orthodox rov's point of view. I know you would like to crush such people, but it's unlikely that you'll be able to, only the real mashiach will solve that. If you don't like them stay away from them, sur mera, but it's not a mitsva to destroy every last Modern Orthodox rabbi on the planet just because you hate Modern Orthodoxy.
"It is surprising that the krummer calls this false messiah "baaley teshuva"."
RaP: And it is surprising that Tropper couldn't mekarev Guma, nor convince Mrs. Guma to get an EJF conversion, nor let the rabbonim coming to EJF concerts know that the Co-Chairman of EJF Guma was married to a shiksa who was refsuing to get a kosher conversion all while Tropper was bilking Guma for his money and pouring out millions of dollars from Guma's Kaplan Foundation to fool the rabbis and the world when in fact EJF was just a corrupt, fraudulent and hypocrictal house divided against itself with family feuds, allegations of false messianism and public Chillul Hashem about to break forth at any moment. Shame on you!
"And is also surpising how this krummer ferdreys everyone with distorting facts; The facts are that Guma was with Tropper from the begginingof the founding of EJF and hoped that tropper would convert his wife."
RaP: Now we are learning something maybe. And it confirms that Guma is/was a chosid of Tropper from the start!
"Maybe tropper thought that with time the wife would be ready to keep torah and mitvot."
RaP: This is Tropper's greed, he will take someone's millions even though he hates them for who they are!
"tghat did not happen."
RaP: Because Tropper failed to truly mekarev Guma and to win over Mrs. Guma proving that Tropper is a failure as a kiruv worker and as a converter of gentiles when it counts most, since if he can't convince his own biggest chosid and his wife who are giving you/Tropper TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM THEIR KAPLAN FOUNDATION how are you/Tropper going to convince anyone else like this??? You are a total dismal failue by your own admissions. Shame on you!
"He resorted to other groups and got their rabbis to make this false conversion and now with the aid of the "Rabbi" calls him in the tabloids a "baal teshuva"!"
RaP: The assumption here is false. Any kiruv worker knows that tons of BTs become frum while they are still dating or married to goyim. What is Roni saying? Is he denying what is going on the world today? He is out of touch with reality and with people and wishes to terrorize them into accepting his one dimensional way like a crazed Ayatolla or hell-bent Imam of Hezbola.
"Whatever asnd whichever way one slices this: This story shows how tropper did not sell his soul; did not change the rules of torah; did not bend halacha to be able to fundraise more money!"
RaP: Sure, it's that old story of yours, Tropper can do no wrong. He is a tzadik and he must be defended at all costs.
"Probably Guma dropped his support as a result of EJF converting this shikssah! If anything it shows that EJf has morals."
RaP: What "morals" does EJF have when it will take millions of dollars from a man who was recently a Chritisn missionary like Guma, who is barely religious, who is hitched to a shiksa and having kid after kid with her, who is giving them tens of millions as this goes on, and not a word is said to the rabbis who come to EJF concerts about this hypocrisy and evil and corruption and you have the chutzpa to say EJF has "morals"? Shame on you!
"As opposed to those rabbis in other organizations who use this as a tool to fundraise and to claim that they made "baaley teshuva" of such people are people who endanger klal yisroel by briging goyim into it's midst and bty selling yiddishkeyt for money and power!"
RaP: What a joke, only other rabbis and organizations want fame, money and power but never Tropper and EJF? What an "Eternal Jewish FRAUD" you really are! Shame on you!
In response to the meatless chollent of RAP:
ReplyDeleteROni: "What is more perplexing is that these issues actualy speak well of tropper and speak ill of his beloved crooks."
RaP: Nothing "perplexing" here when Tom Kaplan, attached at the hip to Tropper as always, is caught with his pants down that their nephew/talmid Guma the Golem refused to follow their way and rebelled. "
No, shoteh: IT is tropper refusing to convert a goya! instead! which shows he does not sell himself for money!
RAP:" Is that something to be proud off,"
OF course, as Bomzer and your other buddy L sold themselves for money and converted the goya fo $$$$
"bobbeh maysses hysteria! THe RAbbis run Ejf and people l
are in the board as are many people like him in many boards of many institutions."
RaP: Oh yeah? But the rabbis don't cut the philanthropic checks and the rabbis are the ones who got the money from Kaplan and Guma, "
Just as Rabbi lypscyc does not cut his check and Bomzer does not cut his check, but the difference is: At EJf thel not echange the checks for fake conversions; while R HB and L will get the checks cut for doing essnan zonah services!
RaP:"and now it turns out behind the scenes Guma and his wife were refusing to go along with EJF's own mission-statement all while "
Not true at all! They were going along and gavve them checks hoping that EJF will exchange those checks for the "fake conversion"! when that did not happen: THey said NO MORE CHECKS, then trhey went to bomzer who told them: a gift of 50,000$ would do the job, and Rabbi Lypcyc said: a building would do the trick!
While the: "EJF was gathering rabbis" rejected the call to convert the old halachik issur of converting the gentile when they are not jewish as explained in the teshuvot of RMF and RCOG and the letter of Bazatz!
"Strike guma and the he accuses Guma's wife of being a gentile without a good conversion,"
This is a well known phenomonom by those who know the truth."
" RaP: What "truth"? You gotta be kidding, it took two lawsuits that noone even heard about and a newspaper reporter to make the truth come into the open,"
Just beause *your* buddies did not disseminate their crimes does not mean that they do not exist! Rabbi Tropper probably did not feel a need to spread the bad news about Guma in the internet as you and other atempt to them about them! But this is the eral truth. The fact is that until two years ago Guma associated heavily with Tropper because he hoped he would offer him the serivces. He refused because the wife was not ready to keep torah and mtizvot.
" that EJF was a hypocritical organization, preaching one thing for the world while accepting and staying silent for years that Guma its Co-Chairman (and who is still officially is Co-Chairman) was married to a gentile who REFUSED to get converted"
Roni: RaP I though you only need a tutor to read mishnayoss! Lsiten and don't distort: He was there hoping to covnert his wife through EJF. EJf wwould probably convert her if she would be like otgher ejf candidates that keep torah and mitzvot. That did not happen because she was not ready to keep the basics.
" RaP: Oh, it's "silly" now is it? What is "silly" that hundreds of rabbonim were duped at EJF concerts by Kaplan/Tropper/Guma when their own EJF house "
Roni : was NOT corrupt, for the one on top would be eligible to convert his wife had his wife been ready for conversion! She was not and that shows that they were well served and that they partake in a good cause.
" at the top was refusing to go along with the standards and guidelines of the holier-than-thou-conversions organization"
ROni: Because his wife was not ready to keep shabbat and basic yiddishkeyt!
" even while he was Co-Chairman and writing the checks to sponsor the rabbis."
Roni: and precisely for that, he is to commanded for he did not cave in to the demands of the one who wrote checks to fraudulently "convert" his wife.
"because there are hundreds of fake conversions by bomzer and there is no point in attacking each one (ki rabim hem vee efshar leportom) but the fight has to waged aganst bomzer and his enablers."
" RaP: This discussion is how Tropper/Kaplan/Guma/EJf kept their mouths tightly shut for years ":
You are not the one how to control you false and hysterical atacks at tropper. The discussion goes whereever it is relevant. They had no reason to divulge to the world their desire to convert his wife; as bomzer does not go arouund and annonces to you all the goyim he brings. The distinction though is: that Here we are talknig about trying to test if it suitable and this is how the procedure should work. THe rabbi trasins and sees if the candidate is ready! If everything goes well he converts them; if not he refuses to convert them.
RAP:"Stop bringing everything back to Bomzer in red-herring style. Bomzer performs problematic boderline conversions at best and passul ones at worst,"
Roni: They are part of this very same discussion. I point out to you that the Badatz call go directly to bomzer style conversion! He makes (not borderline conversions); but passul ones! THey are condemned by the Badatz in theirletter, by RMf, by RCOg! But tropper's conversions are sanctioned by RMF and RCOG!
" but way before Guma&Wife&Kids got to Bomzer they were with Tropper and Kaplan and EJF in a LEADERSHIP position yet and nothing was said to anyone about this hypocratic situation. ":
Roni: agian the shoteh cannot get sometyhinhg simple: He was there as a trial to see ifre would be place to make the real gerut. He would see what needs to be done and so Tropper would see if the candidate is suitable like all good gerus are done!
RAP": "Imagine if you went to a yeshiva and attended the shiurim and trusted the Rosh Yeshiva and one day it turns out that the Co-Chairman of the Board was found to be living with a goy who refused to get a Halachic conversion for years."
ROPni: Such a shoteh i didn't know! I?n a yeshiva we have people who are jewish ALREADY! Here we are talking about a CANDIDATE to see if they are suitable for conversion. This is exactly the role of the Rabbis in conversion!!!
RAP:" How many talmidim would trust that Rosh Yeshiva and his mossad for hashkofa and halacha yet this is just what Tropper the Rosh Yeshiva of Kol Yaakov yeshiva is asking, that people should believe that his Co-Chairman giving him tens of millions for his yeshiva, outreach programs and EJF that DID receive HUGE funding from Guma's Lillian Jean Kaplan foundation said nothing while people thought everyone was truly above board and ehrlich. Disgusting!"
ROni: Such hevel shtussdike words: THey were getting money for a project and organization that does NOT acknolwedge goyim as yidden, and their job is to see if the candidate for conversion is up to it! and this is exactly what they did and what any normal dayan should do!
"Yuor buddies have hundreds of fake converts and they are not publicized."
RaP: Who is even talking about that? Can't you stick to one subject?
RONi; No the subject is fake geruss! this is the subject that is condemned by the letter of the Badatz!
RaP: The subject is Guma and EJF and Kaplan's actions against Guma and where Tropper fits into this and it's not about a universal discussion about all fake geirus which is a connected but separate topic."
And the actions of the eJf are clearly within the norms of any rabbinical organziation that tests their candidates if they are suitable for conversion, and that was thir association. And while EJf took money from Guma to serve the same needs he had to other people; yet the organization did not betray it's principles and ddid not convert the wife of guma when it was proven that she was notr ready.
And no, Bomzer is relevant in this discussion, to illustrate how your Badatz Letters of condemnation go directly to him and in this very story proves that all the possible concerns tha tBadatz might hjave towards EJf exist in a REAL way toweardfs bomzer.
"But they exist and sometimes like when you stupidly use guma to attack troper I call your bluff for what it is."
" RaP: What stupidity? Is it stupid to ask what was going on when Guma was writing the checks"
Roni: it is stupid to attack tropper for something proper he did! It is stupid to atak him on a issue that he is to commended. IT is stupid to attack him in issue where your buddy is shown to farce!
"So stop carrying on please and just reacting withknee-jerk stupid insults instead of your shoddy technique of creating one red herring distraction after another"
they are not distractions; they show how distorted your hatred has become and how evil becomes virtue and virtue becomes evil by peole like RAP."
RaP: What "hatred" what "evil" such hypebole, don't you know how to deal with simple straightforward questions? Grow up!
Roni: Yes, your irrational venomous hatred to tropper is obvious to any objective reader in any issue that you write about him.
"Below are responses starting with "RaP":
"You and otherswanted to implicate tropper and EJf for the Kaplabn family"
RaP: Baloney! Tropper did this to himself! He did not tell people that the leadership of EJF was at war with itself and a huge fraud because Guma it's Co-Chairman writing the checks was married to a shiksa who refused to convert. That Guma went to Bomzer was later.
Roni: the liar shoteh again with his distortions: He did not get checks from a intermarried couple just like that; he got his money because guma was interested in getting EJf to convert his wife. He went through the trial as all other rabbis do. And he failed the test. And then Bomzer took over and did what he usually does: convert anyone anybody especially if he has $$$$$$
"And the fact is that tropper told guma to fly a kite and did not convert his goyishe wife. and Lypszyc and Bomzer did not tell him to fly a ike; but they sold themselves for his $$$."
RaP: Whoa. One step at a time. Why was such a person like Guma allowed to be the lay co-head of EJF with as much power (or maybe more, since Guma ran the Kaplan Foundation) as Kaplan?"
ecause he was interested in converting his wife from day one! He thought EJf would that which it does to other legitimate candiates. He failed the test. Tropper refused the essnan zonah and he should be commended for that! plain and simple! and your buddy bomzer is condemned by the Badatz letter for converting shikssah for essnan zonah!
"Don't you think that the rabbonim who went there deserve to be told, how they were manipulated for other means, such as plans to proselytise to billions of gentiles".
They are told and are aware of the candidates that come to the EJF. They also see the results and the good conversions being performed and those bad ones being rejected. They therefore continue tosupport that organization.
"It's understandable that a guy who can make billions in "gasses" won't be fooled by the false "hot air" from the likes of Tropper and many of the rabbis that came to EJF concerts".
zilch nada. What are you trying to say about hundreds of rabbis ?"
RaP: That they were hoodwinked and fooled by Tropper/Kaplan/Guma/EJF. It's that simple
Roni: And thwe fact that Tropper refued aat the point when Guma;s wife was not ready shows that the rabbis were not hookwinked!
"like he is reponsible for today's sonwstorm. You are an irrational hater of tropper."
RaP: Sure, according to you only Tropper is rational, it's the world that's crazy, right? This is a sure sign of delusions/illusions of grandeur.
Roni: again words of nada and zilch!
RAP:" Guma is Kaplan's super nephew. Super rebbe meet super nephew, but super nephew is married to super shiksa,"
Roni: who would like to convert her and EJF converts other such candidates.
RAP:" and super shiksa thinks that super rebbe stinks, she doesn't want a super frum conversion, "
Roni: RAP THE LIAR again. Super shiksah does not ANY REBBE, SHE DOES NOT want olain shabbos kashrut and taharat hamishpcha. sUPER LIAR HIDESW HIS REAL OPINIONS. hE SANCTIONS FAKE CONVERSIONS THAT CONTAIN CHILLU SHABBOS BEFARHESSYA!
RAP:super rebbe fails to convince super shiksa to convert the super religious ejf way,
Roni: actually, does not manage to convince her to keep shabbos; she chooses to clearly state that she would be mechalel shabbos befarhessya!
RAP: so super nephew and his super shiksa wife go to the other super conversion rebbe"
Roni: No, they go to the super fraudulent conversion rabbi who tells that she can be mechalel shabbos as long as 50,000$ gift is at his poccket!
"Roni: What is this show anything about the organization or tropper's activiies being shady? or about tropper liastening to guma telling him to violate torah or the like that is natural to your buddies like bomzer and co?"
RaP: Noone said that Guma told Tropper anything. What is being said is that Tropper was hiding the fact the EJF was headed by someone like Guma who,"
Roni": Morelike many organizations do not announce to the world who helps them out, but their name was on thel ist and they could ask tofind out the turth. And the truth was there that he wanted to convert his wife and tropper said fine: IF she would meet the criteria. She failed the test!.
RAP:" was living a life that contradicted its very mission.
Roni: no, it is part of the mission: to test candidates. Some succeed and some fail. They are true to their mission that if a candidate fails they do not covnert them! They are to be commended and your buddy who overtook someone who was not ready to keep shabbos should be condemned.
"Would this be your concern you would politely ak RAv REuven Feinstein why he supports and is aa partner to this organization?"
RaP: What's he saying and thinking about Guma and uncle Tom now that it's out in the news? That he took money from Guma and now thinks he is no good? It won't be pleasant.
Roni: I didn'tr speak to him. Butprobably, he is saying that he is happy to making gthe right choice not to convert his wife when she did not pass the tesgt, as it is done to every other candidatet of such conversion. And he is happy that he did no succumb to essnan zonah that bomzer and l did.
"And so many oter choshuver rabbis who were not concerned by his overreacihng to intermarried couples, where there is a jewish partner and they are reaching to those jewish partners etc."
RaP: this is your truly krummer "heter" of converting goyim by the fistful to "save" the Jewish partners.
Roni: No, read pirush hamiloss of RMf and RCOG where they are matir to convert in such cases. REad also how they forbid to convert in cases where the cnadidate does not keep shabbos; does not intend to keep shabbos in the first place! IT is pirush hamilot. If you do not get it; get a tutor!
"Were you cocerned about the gentiles coming to be part of the jewish peopple we would see you railing about the people who bring goyim into klal yisroel."
RaP: I do, and Tropper is one of the worst, because he is bringing in "glat kosher goyim with his falshe contrived EJF non-hechsher"!
Roni: you do not and are a liar and distortionist. Tropper does not bring goyim! He refuse sto convert them as he refused to do so in Guma's wife's case.
"But we see here that you protect them and defend them. So you do not care about the gentiles becoming mixed with the jews. You have some other motive here."
RaP: You are so tiresome, I wonder why I even bother discussing with you. Tropper runs to bring goyim to Klal Yisroel and then says that others are doing it the "wrong" way, now that is what is called chutzpa.
ROni: When they keep torah and mitzvot and commit to keep shabbos and not mechalel befarhessya trhey are yidden!when they do not commit to keep mitzvot they are GOYIM Tropper does the first; bomzer the later.
RAP:" has wife with a doubtful conversion,"
ROni: Lie a clear goya that is condemned by Badatz!
"Are you also going to accuse the seven dayanim of the BADATS of having an "irrational hatred" of Tropper?"
Roni:'They follow their pattern in other matters. They are consistent with their worldview by taking such a stance. You however, are inconsistent and a phony, as you protect and defend the influx of goyim and the person who brings many of those goyim. It is clear that your motives stem from the irrational hatred for tropper.."
RaP: The reverse is true, it is Tropper's problem not mine,
Roni: talk about tiresome boring discussion.s Tropper has his own rabbonim. Rav REuven is just a legitimate Gaon and valid possek for these issues as Rav Sternbuch.
They back with pssokim of RMF and RCOG and many other haredi leaders, while BOmzer does not do the minimal standards of keeping shabbos kasrut and tahrat hamishpacha! RMF and RCOG would not say that becasue bomzer is Yu that the converts are less non jewish! As long as there is no kabbolas hamitzvot they are NOT JEWISH!
RaP: "Feel free, you have already shown that you/Tropper have little honesty in not just ignoring the THREE official letters from real addresses (not from unknown "P.O. Boxes"), but that you also have the temerity to tzushmetter them and shlog them op"
Roni: How farkrumpt and stupid.
He says "temerity"! Like athe vastmajority who disagree with their stance have the "temerity' to disagree with them. I just pointed out the clear sources from RMF and RCOG how it is consistent and legitiamte. But, you who fakely claim that one cannot have the temerity to argue with BaDAtz and Rav Sternbuch: HOw do you have the temerity to defend bomzer when Rav Sternbuch ruled that the conversions by someone who takes exorbitant fees are null and void?"
RaP: You are so twisted it's not funny. I do not speak for anyone. The BADATS speaks for itself and Tropper should be taking note of it".
ROni: and they condemn bomzer's conversions!
RA:" Bomzer also acts for himself and it behooves a person to see what the merits or demerits are of what he does. He is not just a money grabber "
Roni: He is the bigger money grabber for fake and fruadulent services.
"because naturally, you/Tropper feel that you are a velt's gaon and can twist Halacha and poskim any which way you like".
"like any organization that has gotten money in the past from someone who later was proven to a crook shows that all those organizations are rotten! You can close and say that hundreds of organizations who get money from people mechaleley shabbos, ochely trefos, boel niddos, later found to been crooks, all those organiozations stink!"
RaP: You know, not too long ago when I tried to make a similar argument that EJF Batei Din were not guaranteed to be great because Batei Din in general have problms with Dayanim taking payments from husbands in get cases or in other dinei Torah, you just poo-pood it(to use one of your phrases) but when it comes to defend EJF you use the exact same argument to "defend" EJF. This is not just about crooks, it's about the very mission of EJF that it was promoting an idea of converting gentile spouses when its Co-Chairman was not just married to a gentile but a gentile who refused to go by EJF guidelines. That's the real shande, and you can't deny it or run away from it no matter how you will try to twist and turn".
Roni: The shoteh does not get it! His wife was a *candidate* for conversion as all intermarried couples; as all those who go to the fake bomzer. There is nothing sinister about it. She failed the test. Hwe is to be commended when he refused to convert her when she failed the test andher husband stopped the money!
"And most importantly: the money that is given to bomzer and lypscyc for his building by this guma shows more on how their organization stinks and is rotten that tropper's taking money from him in THE PAST before he "converted" falsely his goya. Because they got money directly to commit a fraud! They got money for the purpose of kashring a goya to be mixed in klal yisroel!"
RaP: You're always putting the focus of the camera back to Bomzer when lechatchila it was Tropper and Kaplan by hiding the truth about Guma and his wife who were the frauds and betrayed its mission statement"
ROni: Not hiding any truth, as they were doing what they do to other legitiamte cnadidates! She did not pass the tests.
"TILL HE DID NOT SUCCEED TO CONVERT HIS GOYA WITH TROPPER! which makes tropper's orgaizatuion NOT rotten; while he gave money to bomzer and lypsyc FOR THE FAKE CONVERSION AND BECAUSE OF THIS FAKE CONVERSION WHICH MAKE *THEIR* ORGANIZATION ROTTEN AND STINKy"
RaP: But my dear Roni/Tropper, all this time, before during and after, while Guma is the Co-Chairman of both EJF and its mother the Kaplan Foundation that is bringing rabbonim to free concerts and doing PR on the Internet to bring in intermarried goyim, a real hypocrisy and it is YOU/TROPPER who created the Guma the Golem Frankenstein "
Roni: Shoteh get it! He was the same candidate as other candidates. He is entitled to attempt to get his wife converted through the organization; the organization is entitled to try to convert her if she is legitimate. Had they converted her, i would agree you that they are there for the money; but since they refused to covnert her when she was not ready they are commdned to what their mission statement is all about.
"bnO, KRUMMER KOP AND DISTORTER of fact: People will buy their converts and respect them when they will know that the rabbis on the head of the organization did NOT SELL THEIR SOUL FOR MONEY AND DID NOT ACCEPT A GOYA IN KLAL YISROEL! AND ACTUALLY NO RABBI STATED THAT HIS CONVERTS ARE GOYIM; WHWEREAS YOUR RABBIS HAVE GOTTEN A STAMP OF DISSAPROVAL STATING HOW THEIR CONVERSIONS IS NULL AND VOID and this story where they took guma's to convert after knowing that tropper did not want to convert and after knowing that she does not want to keep shabbos, and they wanted to get a double portion by creating this stonger rift with tropper and taking away his money (the taanug from taking money from someoone else is greater than the taanug of getting 50,000$ and a building) so people who know what happens in real life (and those who read false distortions in the blogs) will not buy the detergengt and fake converts made by bomzer and will not respect rabbis L and the like who commit this fraudulent avera of bringing a goy into klal yisroel for money and power!"
" RaP: This is a good chunk of news for the world. It would have more credibility if you could explain how you let such a man like Guma be YOUR and EJF's lay co-leader and why you took tens of millions of dollars from him if you hated him and his wife????? Shotteh and Roshe and Ganef!
Roni: He is the tzadik for he acted in good faith attempting to see if the candidate would fit the description of a possible giyoret tzdek. She did not fit the bill. Tropper did the tzidkuss of refusing the essnan zonah money which your buddy bomzer and lypsyc ran quick to grab$$$
RaP: Robot, why are all your responses coming out with the words "Bomzer" in them as if he has imprinted himself on your brain? You are sounding totally fixated and unreasonabale when you carry on like this.
Roni: Because he is the culprit in this discussion. Because you are convering up for him. Because tropper stop andminimzied his business that gt's you mad. Because It is bomzer's crimes that legitimzies tropperr's organization. and on and on. But the rosho shoteh vegas ruach chollent maker liar thinks that oloom golam will buy his lies.
RAP:"why was Tropper not able to MEKAREV Guma himself? Why couldn't Tropper persuade Mrs. Guma to follow him and convert the EJF way?"
Roni: an eyzerner kasha from der krummer! Because she was not ready to keep torah and mtizvot. She did not want to stop being mechalel shabbos befarhessya as many other people. What's so difficult for der krumer to understand? Why hasn't bomzer managed to convince her to stop beingmechalel shabbos??
\
\
RAP:"ssue of why Tropper couln't mekarev Guma enough to even force him to divorce his goyisha wife as Tropper has succeeded with other of his disciples"
ROni: shoteh verosoh and liar. He tries to keep them together as he suceeded in cases where BOTH parties keep torah and mitzvot. He dissuades them when they do not keep torah and mitvot. He follows halacha that a jew cannot stay together with a goya. You and bomzer follow the #$$$ and allow them to live together against torah.
"when there are tens of thousands (even millions perhaps?) like her walking the streets of the world".
Roni: EXactly! and she being the wife of guma and being the "convwert" of bomzer and being rejected by tropper shows that tropper is moral and bomzer and lypsc and RAP and immoral fakers who use their own crimes to attack the one who witheld from commititng their crime!"
RaP: But Tropper is the ONLY one who had the chance to mekarev Guma right and persuade his Mrs. Guma to get the right EJF conversion, and he failed, with now disastrous consequences, so to cover up Tropper's failure the whole universe is blamed instead.
ROni: der krummer again! Good rabbis try that all the time. They attempt to conert only when they persuade the candidate to keep torah. Sometimes they asucceed; sometimes they fail. Many/most times the fail (when the person does not want to keep). Then it is real "succeed" for they do not covnert fake gerim.
"The last thing from you is when you start talking about "halacha". You are am hooretz and bor! His conversions will be valid for there was kabbalat hamitzvot; Bomzer's are goyim!"
RaP: Does the State of Israel fully accept Tropper's converts yet? Last anyone has heard they don't. So it means that EJF's conversions, for all their hype, are not halachically valid by Israel's standards.
Roni: I think that they ultimately do. But what matters is what Shulchan Oruch says: TI says that tropper's gerim are valid; while bomzer's are invalid!
"i HAVE SAID AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT THRAPE ONE AND ONLY SOLUTION IS TO CREATE AND RUN A SFER YUCHSIN FOR THE WORLD'S 13-14 MILLION JEWS AS TOLD BY RAV ELIASHIV."
RONI:Shtussim vehavolim; it will not stop the conversions of bomzer and will not stop people marrying of their sons to covnerts of bomzer!"
RaP: Noone can stop people from doing anything in the modern world,
Roni: you can do to bomzer what you do with tropper and call him to stop his sheninaigans.
"Tropper had to sacrifice himself not to convert guma's wife; Bomzer the false dayan converted this goya!"
RaP: Always this crazy justaposition between Tropper and Bomzer as if that is the only way the world must look at this. Tropper is responsible for pushing Guma and his wife away"
RAP: the krummer shoteh does not whichposition to take. anythingg to attack tropper: it is his fault that he wanted them to be megayer; it is his fault that he was not mekrev them...and stupid and stupid as the farkrumte shoteh is...
He does with them what any ehrlciche rabbi does to the cnadidates: he sess if they are ready. If they fit the bill he converts them. If not he refuses!
"When Bomzer brings goyim to klal yisroel (as an example guma's wife) and for money and has enablers who take ESSNAN ZONAH MONEY FOR THIS CRIME; while trooper prevents goyim from being part of klal yisroel by doing things that excludes the fake corrupted conversions of bomzer!"
RaP: I feel like I am having a discussion with a brainwashed communist who spouts slogans instead of making rational points.
RAP: der kerummer shoteh with his krummer slogans.
"Rav Eisenstein knows and knew about Guma all along! From the begginng. He was not worried about this. Because he knew that tropper would not convert her if she did not want to commit to shabbos. But he will speak the worse of bomzer for making this conversion. He and all rabbis who signed on the condemnation letter and many others who did not know that tropper is commended for not converting the goya and know that bomzer is possul legeruss for converting this woman. You can try to fool those who do not know here in DT but those that are familiar with this (and other cases) know this case is typical of the corruption that bomzer embodies and tropper who rejected the lure of $$$ by the person who gave his organization themoney is commended for his actions!"
" RaP: Rav Eisenstein is making it known by the OFFICIAL distance he keeps from EJF that he is not happy with it,"
Roni: bobbeh maysses! he attended the last conventions even whjil he knew the story and he rails against bomzer for doing this fake conversion.
Roni:" he engages in a smaller degree of shmutz gto remove and prevent the shmutz perpetrated by your buddies! by those who you protect. It is like making an amptutation toprevent death! But you, the distorter will blame him for clean up of the mess that your friends and collaborators have created!"
RaP: Sure back to that "chet kal is better than a chet chamur" farkrumte philosophy that should be burned with your falshe and apikursishe sefer Torah "
You asre the shoteh apikoross gomur who defmaes ehrliche yidden (like Rav Reuven FEinstein) and a krummer kop. Read the pirush hamiloss of RMF and RCOG who allow gerut lechem isshut if it prevents chet chamur (whne they keep torah and mtizvot!).
RaP: Bomzer exists, get over that, I did not invent him. He also needs to be understood.
Roni: the krumer shoteh. BNomze needs to understood. Tropper not! Bomzer is alreadhy understood that is a danger for klal yisroel.!
RaP: You can't seem to halt kop, I cited three current-day approaches, your's/Tropper's included.
There is not only one way that this is being dealt with and I am not making that up.
Roni: and get it shoteh your approaches are rejected by RMF and RCOG and the Badatz.! Tropper's is accepted by RaMf andn RCOG and other geoyley haposskim!
\RAP: Whether you or I like it or not there is also a Modern Orthodox way that is out there in the world.
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Roni: der krummer again. MAny MO fellow will repudiate bvomzer's appraoch. RHS repidiates that approach!
"No respected Rabbi neither charedi or MO will accept Bomzer's approach of taking money to kasherize a convert who does NOT keep shabbos, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha. And i have other news to tell you: Those who are spouses with such people are also not "baaley teshuva"! as RaP flasely and deceitfully wants to brainwash people! Either the do the approach of Ezra or they at least attempt their spouses to keep torah and mitzvot. As Rav Moshe Feinstein wrote said, the jewish spouses who live the goyishe partner who does not keep torah and Mitzvot are thesmselves most probably and in the majorityo f situations not shomer torah and mitzvot."
RaP: That is just one view, yours, it is not every last Orthodox rov's point of view.
ROni: that is the view of GEdolyey haposskim. No respected possek (except Rav uziel) legitimizes bomzer's and your aproach!
"And is also surpising how this krummer ferdreys everyone with distorting facts; The facts are that Guma was with Tropper from the begginingof the founding of EJF and hoped that tropper would convert his wife."
RaP: Now we are learning something maybe. And it confirms that Guma is/was a chosid of Tropper from the start!
Roni: shoteh, he was a candidate to have his converted as all other cnadidates!
"tghat did not happen."
RaP: Because Tropper failed to truly mekarev Guma and to win over Mrs.
Roni: because she was not interested in megayer as all other legitimate candidates. When a goya is not interesteed then it is not the job of a kosher rabbi to "mekarev" her to make fake gerus as bomzer does.
"He resorted to other groups and got their rabbis to make this false conversion and now with the aid of the "Rabbi" calls him in the tabloids a "baal teshuva"!"
RaP: The assumption here is false. Any kiruv worker knows that tons of BTs become frum while they are still dating or married to goyim.
Roni: the krummer shoteh. he twists and twists. Tropper was wrong in his eyes to atempt to be mekarev; he was wrond for being mekarev. ....But der krummer defends making gerus and declaring someopne jewish when she is not jewish yet. This idiot and shameful liar states that it is "kiruv' to be megayer a fake giyoret??? a real am hooretz and apikoress! what actually happeened was they shopped for the $$$ guma is opffering and for der krummer that is called kiruv!
"Probably Guma dropped his support as a result of EJF converting this shikssah! If anything it shows that EJf has morals."
RaP: What "morals" does EJF have when it will take millions of dollars from a man who was recently a Chritisn missionary like Guma,"
And they tried being meklarev and they actaully were mekarev him to encounter his yiddishkeyt; but he asked to convert his wife when she was not ready he did not bend torah prinicples as bomzer and your buddies did!
Bottom line: der krummer defends goyim to be called yidden ion the name of "kiruv" and he attcks tropper for failing to be "mekarev" him/her to accept gerut when she is an open mechaleless shabbos when Badatz actaully condemnds this kuind of behavuiour. it only proves that der krummer shoteh has ulterior mitoves in atacking tropper. That is is his life!
Rap, You are a genius and probably a gilgul of Sherlock Holmes. How did you make the connection ?
ReplyDeleteWhen I first read the Pashkevil Roni/Tropper sent to rabbi Eidensohn
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2009/01/r-bomzer-censured-by-vaad-for.html
I wondered, after all these years the vaad was complaining about rabbi Bomzer and Rabbi Bomzer just ignoring them, why out of sudden they decided to go publicly after rabbi Bomzer ?
The pashkevil also mentions a Brazilian woman and I was wondering who is that mysterious Brazilian woman who got all those choshuv rabbonim all stirred up? Did rabbi Bomzer really convert Fernanda Motta who obviously needs chizuk in her tznius practices?
But now the enigma was solved, the mysterious Brazilian girl who got all those choshuv rabbis excited is Guma’s wife! Apparently Roni/Tropper who saw his goose with the golden eggs going to his arch-enemy rabbi Bomzer got so worked up and got some gelt from his master Tom Kaplan to get all those rabbis issue an edict against Rabbi Bomzer for converting a Brazilian woman who the pashkevil does not say is the wife of the EJF co-chair.
We actually can get a glimpse into Roni/Tropper’s psyche where are some of the roots to his fixation with rabbi Bomzer are coming from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixation_(psychology)
Important post at Guma Aguiar of EJF - raised as Christian (January 29, 2009):
ReplyDeleteA PUBLIC CALL TO RABBI TROPPER TO OPENLY AND PUBLICLY RENOUNCE GUMA AND JAMIE AND TO OPENLY AND PUBLICLY DO TESHUVA FOR HIS FAILURE WITH THEM THAT HAS NOW BROUGHT ABOUT A CALAMITY ON ISRAEL AND KLAL YISRAEL AS GUMA LAUNCHES A NEW SELF-AGGRANDIZING CAREER BASED ON THE EJF MODEL HE HAD LEARNED FROM HIS UNCLE TOM KAPLAN AND RABBI TROPPER AS THEIR MUTUAL RABBI!
Roni says: "2) tropper did not convert her, DESPITE LOSING HIS MONEY!"
Does that mean that now that Tropper has gotten burned big time, that Tropper has learned his lesson and will finally cease and desist TOTALLY from continuing with EJF's cockamamy scheme to try to lure and convert the gentile spouses of Jews hitched to non-Jews?
Guma and his wife Jamie going down in flames so spectularly, now in the open, according to Roni/Tropper's own account, should be an abject lesson of how NOT to do kiruv and of how NOT to try to solve intermarriage situations, and how NOT to haughtily rely on one's own powers of persuasion or position as spiritual leader in any way.
The world awaits to know if anything will be heard, and Rabbi Tropper owes it to Klal Yisroel that NEVER AGAIN will he tamper with trying, through conventions, hotel retreats, advertising, publci meetinsg or any type of recruitment and luring that amounts to forbidden proselytizing, to in any way attempt to convert the goyishe spouses of his disciples or those that seek him out, that can and must only lead to greater numbers of the Guma-Jamie type fiascos!
Message to Rabbi Tropper: Let this serve as a great warning and sign to you, that your were misguided in your assumptions and that not only were your efforts futile, but they bore poisonous and dangerous fruits, and you cannot come up with the lame excuse, like Eve, that "it's all Momzer's fault" or that "Bomzer made them do it" because you were the one that got the ball rolling by taking Guma and Jamie under your controlling wings, obviously something went horribly wrong and they rebelled against you, when noone asked you to go in over your head and cause such crazy damage as you sought every means to defend your obvious (excepet to you) stance and rationale, but now you must do public penance for launching the fierce Guma Golem who will now trump his perverted cause from Israel across the world (having learned a thing or two from his days launching and spreading EJF propaganda), and that you, Rabbi Tropper, by failing to fully MEKAREV him and failing to fully MEGAYER his wife with your "EJF standards" and having learned the lessosns of what happens when you fail in your self-appoined cockamamy mission, have brought a catastrophe upon yourself and on Klal Yisroel, r"l.
You cannot hide behind Tom Kaplan's two lawsuits against Guma and play innocent on the sidelines saying it's "just a private family feud" when it's far worse than that.
Like Rabbeinu Yonah who opposed the RAMBAM and later repented for that and wrote the Shaarei Teshuva you must PUBLICLY and preferably IN WRITING renounce Guma and Jamie because, as you/Roni continuosly admit on this blog, Tropper was the first and the longest rabbi to to try to (a) MEKAREV Guma, but failed and (b) MEGAYER Jamie, but failed so miserably and now so spectacularly out in the open.
And as you/Roni have pointed out on this blog a few times, it was only after Tropper failed to both MEKAREV Guma and MEGAYER Jamie that it was your/Tropper failues as both Kiruv rabbi and Geirus worker that drove Guma and his wife Jamie and their kids into the arms of your/Tropper's arch-enemy, Rabbi Bomzer and the Chabad rabbi in Florida who did the unthinkable according to you. It was you/Tropper who drove Guma and Jamie into Bomzer's arms, so you cannot cry fould when Bomzer did what he always does, perform lenient conversions that you hate and fight so much, and have the last laugh with the Chabad rabbi at you his rodef who has no clue in diplomacy 101.
Like Rabbeinu Yona you must take the lead in OPENLY renouncing Guma and Jamie, and it is not enough that you won't "take their money" because guess what, they are not giving it you in any acse, so you must stop hiding under fake identities online or faking neutrality converning the Kaplan-Guma family feud, but like a person who must not only face up to his failures and mistakes but must now also try to undo them and warn others of not getting involved with Guma and how you have anandoned the misbegotten EJF cockamamy experiment to convert the non-Jewish partners hitched to Jews.
You must do this forcefully, in writing and consistantly and clearly, so that the world will know not to repeat the mistakes you/Tropper have made.
You also owe a huge apology to all the rabbonim who came to EJF events and whom you fooled into thinking that all was above board at EJF metchila ad sof, when you knew full-well the fact that Guma, the guy heading up the Kaplan Foundation and writing the checks not just for EJF and various mosdos but also to your/Tropper's own Kol Yaakov yeshiva and its "Horizons" outreach program, brought about a great Chillul Hashem and Bizayon to all, Hashem Yerachem.
Hoping to hear Besuros Tovos from you soon and that we can put our past differences behind us and unite together as Torah Jews!
rAP,
ReplyDeleteI THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTON OF MY HEART [...]
IF YOU CAN MAKE YOUR TREATISES SHORT YOU WILL BE AWARDED WITH GREAT SCHAR TO SAVE ANOTHER YID'S TIME!
BEST REGARDS,
RONI
Daat Torah,
ReplyDeleteYou are faker and liar and dishonest like RAP and BOmzer and Lypcsyc!
Why did you cut off the message and left the last part? Because tyou are the distorter and spinmaster that all of them are!
ION short: 1) tropper succeeded in not accepting essnan zonah, 2) bomzer and lypcsc received the essnan zonah money? 3) you the faker preach to tropper only because yoyu have a past vendetta against him (slifkin affair), not BECAUSE YOU ARE LESHEM SHOMAYIM FOR YOU ARE THE SAME DISHONEST PERSON AS THEY ARE! 4) for if you have been serious you would devote you energy to fight the GOYIM AND ESSNAN ZONAH'S but you do not care because all you care is to take revenge at tropper, 5) at the end you have not managed after over two weeks to show how RMF holds that one cannot convert leshem ishut to prevent issur kal, something you claimed to be reofrm and "cafetteria style'; you misread and misunderstood RMF, 6) but most importantly you did not want to read the parts where he states that without kabbalas hamitzvot it is null and void something sdone by BOzmer Rap and lypscyc and more...
but the worse is that you cut off parts of my message for you are a fake adn fraud like all of them!
Have the courage to put back the entire message! or else you can stay with your fake board filled with sheker and essna zoinah money!!
Controversy over Guma Aguiar reported by the Jewish Telegraphic Agency. JTA.ORG says that "the blog Daas Torah spills a lot of e-ink on him.
ReplyDelete(Looks like they took a lot of the stuff from this blog to write up their own blog report.)
As noted at Tom Kaplan wants director of Kaplan Foundation removed (January 26, 2009) and Guma Aguiar - philanthropic activity (January 26, 2009) and Guma Aguiar of EJF - raised as Christian (January 29, 2009) and more, the mainstream secular Jewish media is beginning to ask big and serious questions that are surely gowing to come back to haunt not just Guma Aguiar, but also his uncle Tom Kaplan and his first and most notable rabbinic patron Leib Tropper who with Guma and uncle Tom hatched the EJF scheme and sold it to the world in spite of Guma being hitched to a gentile woman from Brazil who refused to convert via their own EJF all while they were enticing rabbis to join with EJF to come up with higher standards for conversions while Guma was writing the checks to the tune of tens of millions from the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation that went to EJF and to "Horzons" the pet outreach project of Rabbi Tropper.
Anyhow, here is the latest report from jta.org, and note the comment that "the blog Daas Torah spills a lot of e-ink on him.":
Is Guma Aguiar a philanthropic savior or the Messiah?
By Jacob Berkman · February 10, 2009
While the rest of the philanthropy world seems to be in the tank, it appears that the Jewish world has found a new benefactor -- and perhaps Messiah.
Guma Aguiar, a 30-something oil man, has announced two major gifts to Jewish non-profits over the past several weeks.
First came the announcement that he had given some $8 million to the pro-alliyah group Nefesh B’Nefesh over the past year. Then, last week, the March of the Living, which takes high school-aged Jews to Poland to see the sites of the Holocaust, announced that Aguiar had given it $500,000.
The announcements came with the standard fanfare that arrives with most similar announcements.
From Nefesh b’Nefesh::
"This substantial donation demonstrates how the remarkable commitment of Jews who choose to make Israel their home even in these challenging times, is echoed and fortified by the support of generous individuals like Guma," said Tony Gelbart, Co-Founder and Chairman of Nefesh B'Nefesh, "these vital funds strengthen Israel's human resources and ensure its future. The gift has already played a major role in helping Nefesh B'Nefesh bring a record number of newcomers to Israel in 2008."
Aguiar firmly believes in creating facts on the ground and views his commitment to Nefesh B'Nefesh as a vital strategic investment in Israel. "There is no greater priority for the Jewish people or Israel than strengthening immigration (Aliyah) from the US, Canada and the UK" stated Aguiar, who was named "Top Industry Executive of 2008" by Oil & Gas Investor Magazine, " Our goal of enabling 100,000 individuals to realize their Aliyah dream seems more realistic with every passing day, in light of the 18,000 who have moved to Israel with Nefesh B'Nefesh's assistance thus far, and another 12,000 already 'in the pipeline.' My family is deeply moved to be a part of this incredible historic process."
"Our tradition teaches us that when economic times are tough, giving to others for important causes is the most helpful thing to do," Aguiar added, "It is a profound honor for me to help fulfill what I consider a truly sacred task."
And from the March of the Living:
“On behalf of the thousands of people who will benefit from Mr. Aguiar’s generosity, we sincerely thank him,” said Dr. Shmuel Rosenman, Chairman of the International MOL. “This support will enable us to forge ahead with our work of educating the next generation about the horrific realities of the Holocaust while effectively combating anti-Semitism and hate.”
The gift will support the organization’s scholarship funds and its educational opportunities. It will enable students without sufficient financial means to take part in this invaluable, life changing experience represented by participation in the March of the Living.
“It is urgent and vital for our youth to witness and understand the magnitude of the Holocaust firsthand and grasp the astonishing miracle of the rebirth of the State of Israel from the ashes of the Shoah,” said Aguiar. “I am extremely moved to be a part of the 2009 International March of the Living. This outstanding organization is on the forefront in enlightening the next generation both about our people’s history and heritage.”
“With the rising wave of anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial spreading worldwide,” he continued, “the three kilometer March from Auschwitz to Birkenau will act as a powerful unifying experience helping to inspire the future leaders of the Jewish people.”
This could be the start of big things from Aguiar, the CEO of Leor Energy.
Aguiar apparently had never spoken with Nefesh officials before giving them his first gift. He simply walked into their Jerusalem offices last year and handed them a check for $5 million, according to Charley Levine, a spokesman acting on Aguiar’s behalf. That was followed by two more gifts, of $2 million and $1 million each, Levine told the Fundermentalist. (“Everyone looked around the room and said, ‘Let’s see if that check cashes,’” said one person close with the situation.)
Aguiar discovered huge natural gas reserves in Texas and made a fortune, Levine said, and now he wants to give back significantly to the Jewish people.
“He retired at 31 and is now actively exploring ways to put his money to work,” Levine said. “Parenthetically, I see this as a new model of post-financial crisis. Post Madoff. A new model of the Adelson type. Only he came through totally unscathed of anything over the past six months.”
Aguiar, who apparently didn’t come from much of a Jewish background but started learning about Judaism several years ago, could be an interesting character to watch.
The Orlando Sun Sentinel ran a story a few weeks ago in which Aguiar’s uncle, with whom he founded Leor Energy, accused his nephew of wanting to become the messaiah.
And he has become something of a star in the Orthodox world since his Nefesh gift was announced. The right-wing Israel National News has a video interview with Aguiar and the blog Daas Torah spills a lot of e-ink on him.
Those close to Aguiar insist that he does not think that he is the messiah and that his uncle was merely trying to slander his nephew over a business disagreement.
Rabbi Moishe Meir Lipszyc, the director of Chabad Lubavitch of Fort Lauderdale, has known Aguiar for five years, since Aguiar was just a 26-year-old tennis instructer. Aguiar has given Lipszyc's organization about $1 million in gifts so far.
Aguiar came to Lipzyc after Aguiar’s grandmother died, and knew nothing about Judaism at the time.
“He gives tzedaka to no end. He attributes his whole success to God. He did not grow up frum, did not grow up religious,” Lipzyc said. “The man is a person that loves other human beings. This talk about the mashiach is so ludicrous. He wants to make the world a better place to help bring the mashiach"."
As of Monday night 23 February, 2009, the link to the original The Sun-Sentinel article [Jersey Girl forwarded] is now dead and there is no trace of it on Google News either.
ReplyDeleteEither the paper no longer exists (it does, I just checked), yet the page seems to redirect to a Chicago paper, or someone has managed to pull it in entirely. Whatever the reason, we do have full copies of the original article in this thread.
Therefore it is always a good practice when quoting an importnan article to not just link to it but to also copy and paste as much of it into the body of the thread when commenting about it so that it be preserved for future reference.
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