Chabad Lubavitch global network
Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc announced today that Guma L. Aguiar co-founder of Leor Energy, an oil exploration and production company based in East Texas, contributed an additional half million dollars to Chabad Lubavitch of Fort Lauderdale. The center will be renamed “The Guma Aguiar Family Campus.
Guma has a heart of gold,” said Rabbi Lipszyc.In recent years, he's funded much of Chabad of Ft. Lauderdale's dynamic growth. "He's now agreed to make his most recent contribution public because he wants to show the world that this is how Chabad responds to the oppressive darkness of terrorism, by taking action and growing.”Aguiar, 31, told Lubavitch.com that, like the rest of the world, he was stunned by the news of the terror attacks in India. Groping for answers, Aguiar considered Chabad’s place in the world. [...]
=====================Guma has a heart of gold,” said Rabbi Lipszyc.In recent years, he's funded much of Chabad of Ft. Lauderdale's dynamic growth. "He's now agreed to make his most recent contribution public because he wants to show the world that this is how Chabad responds to the oppressive darkness of terrorism, by taking action and growing.”Aguiar, 31, told Lubavitch.com that, like the rest of the world, he was stunned by the news of the terror attacks in India. Groping for answers, Aguiar considered Chabad’s place in the world. [...]
Haaretz reports
An American businessman and philanthropist has recently donated $8 million to Nefesh B'Nefesh, the organization announced on Sunday. Guma L. Aguiar, who joined the Nefesh B'Nefesh board this June, made the gift to support the organization's work in helping Western Jews immigrate to Israel and integrate into Israeli society.
The money, which was donated in several installments during the second half of 2008, is "being used to help meet the needs of thousands of recent newcomers," Nefesh B'Nefesh explained in a statement.
The money, which was donated in several installments during the second half of 2008, is "being used to help meet the needs of thousands of recent newcomers," Nefesh B'Nefesh explained in a statement.
Guma is still on EJF board according to their web site (even Pinchus Rabinovitz is still there)
ReplyDeleteBy facilitating and streamlining the conversion process in intermarriage throughout the world, we are meeting the challenge - and opportunity - of maintaining a Jewish future for those who wish to preserve it for future generations," said Thomas Kaplan who, with his nephew Guma Kaplan Aguiar, co-chairs the Eternal Jewish Family ("EJF") under whose banner this initiative is being held. He continued:
http://www.eternaljewishfamily.org/site/programs/rabbiconferences/
B"H
ReplyDeleteI will tell you firsthand that Lipszc's shul is full of Hispanic goyim he treats like they are Jewish.
Guma Aguiar has a Jewish mother, but he is the exception over there.
Rabbis from Israel should take a tour of Chabads and ask like "so where is your mother's family from??".
Can't Israeli Rabbis tell the difference between a Hispanic goy and a Sephardic Jew???? Chabad is full of the former.
Do you realize what is going on in Chabad with the goyim? And why not assur them?
Here's an interesting article about Guma Aguiar.
ReplyDeleteUncle's suit claims nephew misspent foundation money to promote claim he is 'the Messiah'
Monsey T,
ReplyDeleteHis "Crime" (of having him in the EJF board) does not come to the heels of the ouright crime and travesty and sell of yiddiishkeyt by your buddy bomzer when he converted his wife who did not intend to keep shabbat kashrut and taharat hamishpacha for a "gift" of 50,000$$$ and a building for the anablers and partners!! that is the real selloff of yiddishkeyt and the dangers fo a fake covnersion as thgese ones is what legitimzes tropper to create a standard where he would not sell his soul for a gift of 50,000$ to MAKE A FAKE CONVERSION!!
Guma (Gamliel?) Aquiar seems like a nice guy and if rony/tropper hates him al achat kama vekama.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like the kaplan family became another family destroyed by r' tropper
Nice guy = his wife Jewess?
ReplyDeleteThe end of the day, your hated tropper did not sell his soul to money!; bomzer and the enablers did! No amount of money and "nice guy" can transform a non jew into a jew! only a kosher conversion with intenntions to keep torah (which Guma's wife did NOT) can transform her into a Jewish person!
Israel Newsletter.com reports:
ReplyDelete"Guma Aguiar: Leading the New Wave of Jewish Philanthropists
Written by: Aaron Katsman | January 26, 2009
There is no question that the world of Jewish philanthropy has taken a huge hit. From the stock market crash, to a real estate washout to Bernie Madoff’s ponzi scheme, Jewish organizations are scrambling to find new donors. It appears that a name to watch for is Guma Aguiar. Aguiar, a philanthropist and founder of Leor Energy, gave $8 million to Nefesh B’Nefesh.
NBN has created a new approach to Aliyah and streamlined the entire process since it was founded six years ago to assist Western Jews who choose to move to Israel. The success of the organization has been phenomenal, facilitating Aliyah out of choice. Instead of Jews turning to Israel as a sanctuary from persecution, NBN has created a BUZZ for people to come to Israel because they want to. That’s huge! The Aguiar funds are being used to help meet the needs of thousands of recent newcomers.
According to the press release: “This substantial donation demonstrates how the remarkable commitment of Jews who choose to make Israel their home even in these challenging times, is echoed and fortified by the support of generous individuals like Guma,” said Tony Gelbart, Co-Founder and Chairman of Nefesh B’Nefesh, “these vital funds strengthen Israel’s human resources and ensure its future. The gift has already played a major role in helping Nefesh B’Nefesh bring a record number of newcomers to Israel in 2008.”
With so many worthy charities to pick from, the fact that Aguiar picked Aliyah is noteworthy. People have spoken about brining 100,000 western olim, and until now, it’s been a pipe dream. Now, due to the generosity of Aguiar, it may turn into a reality.
Kudos to Guma Aguiar on stepping in to fill the Jewish philanthropic void."
Bizzywomen.com reports:
ReplyDelete"Philanthropy Is Alive and Well
Posted on 26 January 2009
With all the bad economic news, layoffs, Bernie Madoff’s ponzi scheme, and a general depressing feeling taking hold all around America, it’s interesting to note that philanthropists are still busy doing God’s work and donating large sums of money to worthy charities.
Johns Hopkins University has announced the end of an eight-year fundraising effort that raised more than $3.7 billion. Nice. According to the Philanthropy News Digest, ” The original goal of the campaign — to raise $2 billion by the end of 2007 — was surpassed two years ahead of schedule, thanks in part to some of the largest gifts ever received by the university. They include four commitments totaling $157 million from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation for reproductive health initiatives and research on childhood pneumonia and tuberculosis in AIDS patients in developing countries. Of the total raised by the campaign, $2.2 billion — or 58 percent — was designated for Johns Hopkins Medicine, while about $1 billion was awarded for program support. Nearly $3.1 billion — or 82 percent — of the funds raised came from sources outside Maryland. ”
Leor Energy founder Guma Aguiar, has announced an $8 million gift to an organization dedicated to bring North American Jews to live in Israel. Nefesh B’Nefesh, whose goal is to revitalize Western Aliyah and expand it for generations to come, by removing the financial, professional and bureaucratic obstacles that are preventing many potential Olim from fulfilling their dreams. In the process, we hope to send an unmistakable signal of Jewish solidarity linking Israel and the Diaspora. The generous gift by Aguiar, comes at a time when Jewish philanthropy in particular has taken a big hit due to the Bernie Madoff affair.
Trying to help the world of pediatric cancer research, the The St. Baldrick’s Foundation in Pasadena, California, has announced grants totaling more than $2.4 million.
Obviously these are just a few examples, but it seems that worthy causes still have generous donors looking to help fund their projects."
From PR newswire.com:
ReplyDelete"$8 Million Gift to Nefesh B'Nefesh Helps Bring Newcomers to Israel
Guma Aguiar Gift Bolsters Aliyah* In Time of Conflict
JERUSALEM,
January 26 /PRNewswire/ --
Nefesh B'Nefesh today announced the receipt of a major gift to support the organization's work in bringing Jews from the West to live in Israel. The donor Guma Aguiar, a philanthropist and founder of Leor Energy, gave $8 million to Nefesh B'Nefesh during the period ending December 31, 2008. The organization appointed Aguiar, a board member, to the position of Chairman of Finance.
"This substantial donation demonstrates how the remarkable commitment of Jews who choose to make Israel their home even in these challenging times, is echoed and fortified by the support of generous individuals like Guma," said Tony Gelbart, Co-Founder and Chairman of Nefesh B'Nefesh, "these vital funds strengthen Israel's human resources and ensure its future. The gift has already played a major role in helping Nefesh B'Nefesh bring a record number of newcomers to Israel in 2008."
Aguiar firmly believes in creating facts on the ground and views his commitment to Nefesh B'Nefesh as a vital strategic investment in Israel. "There is no greater priority for the Jewish people or Israel than strengthening immigration (Aliyah) from the US, Canada and the UK" stated Aguiar, who was named "Top Industry Executive of 2008" by Oil & Gas Investor Magazine, " Our goal of enabling 100,000 individuals to realize their Aliyah dream seems more realistic with every passing day, in light of the 18,000 who have moved to Israel with Nefesh B'Nefesh's assistance thus far, and another 12,000 already 'in the pipeline.' My family is deeply moved to be a part of this incredible historic process."
Nefesh B'Nefesh has created a new approach to Aliyah and streamlined the entire process since it was founded six years ago to assist Western Jews who choose to move to Israel. The Aguiar funds are being used to help meet the needs of thousands of recent newcomers.
"Our tradition teaches us that when economic times are tough, giving to others for important causes is the most helpful thing to do," Aguiar added, "It is a profound honor for me to help fulfill what I consider a truly sacred task."
*Aliyah: literally "ascending" in Hebrew, refers to Jews returning to their ancient homeland in Israel
Founded in 2002, Nefesh B'Nefesh in cooperation with the Israeli government and the Jewish Agency for Israel, is dedicated to revitalizing Aliyah from North America and the UK by removing or minimizing the financial, professional, logistical and social obstacles of Aliyah. Through the support and comprehensive social services provided to its 18,000 newcomers, Nefesh B'Nefesh has ensured that 98% of its Olim have remained in Israel. http://www.nbn.org.il.
For more information please contact: CHARLEY J. LEVINE, clc@netvision.net.il, +972-52-574-0179
SOURCE Nefesh B`Nefesh"
EJF Co-Chairmen Founders and Funders Tom Kaplan & Guma Aguiar Split.
ReplyDeleteBitter Family Feud Over Control of Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation: Accusations of Fraud Abound in Legal Actions.
Guma Aguiar Is Revealed as a Major Chabad Backer Accused of Messianism By Kaplan.
Guma Aguiar's Chabad Rabbi May be Stealth Co-Leader of EJF's plans to Proselytize to Billions of Gentiles.
Hundreds of Non-Chabad Charedi Rabbis Have Been Fooled and Misled by this Unfolding Scandal
A copy of the news report that is the basis of this Blog posting also appears on Shmais.com (Bs"d Keeping Lubavitchers Informed: Shmais New Service). Comments begin with "RaP" below:
"31-year-old makes $500K donation to Chabad Lubavitch of Fort Lauderdale
Tuesday, Dec 09, 2008
Young Energy Magnate Promises 'Taking Care of Chabad A Priority'"
RaP: No wonder that in recent questions addressed to poster Roni who has been speaking in Rabbi Tropper's behalf, any questions relating to the financial goings-on behind the scenes at EJF and its mother foundation, the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation and as to what and how Tom Kaplan has been funding EJF and Rabbi Tropper have been met with stony silence and accusations that such questions were motivated by "jealousy" --
Well now it seems that a lot has been going on behind the scenes. mostly conflictual and negative, at EJF and the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation that also funds Rabbi Tropper's Kol Yaakov yeshiva, and that it is Rabbi Tropper who is jealous of some heretofore unknown Chabad rabbi in Florida frustrating Tom Kaplan and driving him to launch not one but two lawsuits against his nephew Guma Aguiar see Tom Kaplan wants director of Kaplan Foundation removed (January 26, 2009), son of his sister Ellen. These are not a group of happy campers.
"FT. LAUDERDALE, FL -- (December 9, 2008)"
RaP: It's also where the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation is based and where Guma incorporated it, see:
"The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc. Incorporated by Guma Aguiar and Ellen Aguiar, The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc. is located at 3130 NE 55th Ct Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308. The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc. was incorporated on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 in the State of FL and is currently active. Elliot P. Borkson represents The Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation, Inc. as their registered agent. Source: Public Record data from Florida Department of State - Division of Corporations."
So the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation is (a) Only 6 years old, yet it has come on so strong and enabled Rabbi Tropper to make so much noise all over the world and bought a lot of PR hype. (b) Incorporated by Guma Aguiar and his mother Ellen Aguiar, and presumably they have a controlling interest in the corporation as trustees so no wonder Tom Kaplan has had to go to court to wrest control of it from them. It will not be easy for him and it is already an ugly public fight for a foundation that has funded EJF concerts for rabbis to preach to them, as if they didn't know this already, that the world now needs ONLY EJF approved super-deluxe holier-than-thou conversions to Judaism that only they can approve of, other rabbis be damned. (c) The fact that Tom Kaplan has accused his nephew Guma Aguiar of wroingdoing in Guma's capacity as the head of the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation and proceeded with legal action against him, means that there is a very real possibility that the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation will be forced to shut down by the tax authorities in Florida, which may well be Tom Kaplan's aim, and that it will never again be seen in a positive light by all the non-Chabad, actually anti-Chabad rabbis that have benefited from the foundation and from its off-spring the EJF.
"By EJ Tansky
(lubavitch.com) Shattered by the murders in Mumbai, one energy magnate is picking up the pieces by making a significant contribution to a Florida Chabad center."
RaP: Mumbai? Nowadays that seems to have become the mantra of Chabad people whenever anything good or bad happens. Do they really think that there's a tangible provable and rational connection between the murders in India and what happens in Florida? This is a weird belief system but that is how they function and now it's revealed in full glory that EJF's own Guma Aguiar has fallen in with this crowd, and noch besser that he claims that he was always part of it, even when he was/is the lay Co-Chairman of EJF.
In fact it's not clear if Tom Kaplan has or can dislodge Guma Aguiar as the official Co-Chairman of EJF because nothing has been revealed or made public by the normally paranoid and secretive Tropper-Kaplan duo.
Now we know that they struck out and they are attacking Guma Aguiar and his wife full force. (That's how you treat family? What does it teach the millions of intermarrieds? To shame them in court and in the media? Using blunt axes? Will it even be moshe them to come to EJF events?).
So not to be outdone, Guma is launching his own PR counter-offensive and it's already causing a huge splash with all the tens of millions he's distributing with the promise of lots more to come. This must all be making Tropper and Kaplan not just crazy with rage by apopleptic with seizures. They sure are taking it out on me on this blog, but that comes with the terrain.
"Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc announced today that Guma L. Aguiar, co-founder of Leor Energy, an oil exploration and production company based in East Texas, contributed an additional half million dollars to Chabad Lubavitch of Fort Lauderdale. The center will be renamed “The Guma Aguiar Family Campus.”
RaP: So now Guma Aguiar's Chabad rabbi and connection is fully revealed and it opnens up many questions. What role has Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc played behind the scenes when Guma was at the EJF? Rabbis do like to play with people's heads and to act like manipulators and control freaks to get their aims. Was Tropper duped just as Guma duped his uncle Tom in business and philanthropy? It's possible, after all Guma knows how to play the business game and he has made billions (he and Kaplan are the real money fressers in this entire discussion, the rabbis are just pigeons eating crumbs that they feed them.)
“Guma has a heart of gold,” said Rabbi Lipszyc. In recent years, he's funded much of Chabad of Ft. Lauderdale's dynamic growth. "He's now agreed to make his most recent contribution public because he wants to show the world that this is how Chabad responds to the oppressive darkness of terrorism, by taking action and growing.”
RaP: Exactly how many years has this been going on? Why weren't all the ehrliche and choshuve rabbonim at EJF told that right at the very top of EJF, that the man (Guma) who was writing the checks is actually beholden to a Chabad rabbi not just recently but for quite a few years.
If Tropper knew all this why didn't he and Kaplan scream earlier to warn rabbonim that they are receiving gelt with the taint of Chabad manipulation to it (as they would see it)?
"Aguiar, 31, told Lubavitch.com that, like the rest of the world, he was stunned by the news of the terror attacks in India. Groping for answers, Aguiar considered Chabad’s place in the world. “Chabad, by definition, is right there, on the front lines, helping Jews.”
RaP: An epiphany. Ok, he's allowed to have one. But he was already giving away money to other Jewish and Zionist causes way before Mumbai, when questions were asked on this blog: Who is behind Eternal Jewish Family? (February 21, 2008) and Why is EJF refusing to have open for-the-record dialogue? (March 4, 2008) and more like that that weremet with indignant stonewalling at best and outright insults most of the time.
"Just five years ago, Aguiar encountered Chabad’s kindness personally."
RaP: Well, that's about when he also got EJF started with Tom Kaplan, so the question is what was their original motivation and did it come from Chabad and and at what point did Rabbi Tropper step in?
A lot has not been said and remains unknown, but for an organization like EJF that has spent so much on PR and getting it's message out, it comes as a total shock to learn that it all had Lubavitch roots, as far as this version being told here by Guma and his Chabad rabbi is concerned. Very worrisome indeed for the misnagdim among the rabbonim.
"Born Jewish and raised by parents who accepted a different faith,"
RaP: What? Does that mean that Tom Kaplan's sister was a meshumedes (apostate) married to Otto the non-Jew? And these people created and controlled the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation that funded Rabbi Tropper and many other holy Torah mosdos to the tune of millions? Everything Tropper has done in the last few years, his Kol Yaakov yeshiva, the Horizons outreach and then EJF itself have all carried the name and imprint of the Lillina Jean Kaplan Foundation where, now we hear from Guma's mouth confirmed by his Chabad rabbi, that at the center and head office sat Guma and his mother (presumably Otto the father was also their, he must have been according to Kaplan's law suit) and they were actually people who had "accepted another faith" presumably meaning Christianity?
How can any thinking and caring Torah Jew believe that such a thing is kosher in any way? Why was Kaplan oblivious only until now when he comes screaming at Guma so publicly, and where was Tropper when all this was gurgling around? He is smart, he can tell when a lady starts taking off her sheitel and putting on pants hundreds of miles away and destroys her by negating a conversion, yet right under his very nose, his own "chasidimlach" are not even Jews and even worse, they are probably practcing Christians. This is so troubling, it makes EJF seem like it's riddled with the taint of Jewish Christians r"l.
"Aguiar knew little of his Jewish heritage until he and a few friends stepped into Chabad of Fort Lauderdale one Friday evening."
RaP: Big questions here. Almost all BTs bump into Chabad and benefit from it on their journey to becoming more observant, but where was Tropper if, after all, Guma and his uncle Tom Kaplan also became chasidim of Tropper along the way? What happened? How did it happen? Whey and when did it happen? Just basic questions that need answers that will come to light sooner or later.
"Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc, executive director of Chabad of Fort Lauderdale, welcomed Aguiar and his buddies to share Sabbath dinner at the Lipszyc family home. Aguiar was surprised by the invitation."
RaP: Again, where's Tom Kaplan at this time and how did Guma make the leap from eating chollent at the Chabad rabbi's house to becoming the Co-Chief Honcho at EJF lording it over hundreds of choshuve rabbonim? How did Klal Yisroel sink so low to fall into such a tricky trap?
“This was before my success. I had never been to an orthodox synagogue before, and yet Rabbi Moshe Meir went out of his way to be there for me, with warmth, never being pushy,” Aguiar said.
RaP: That's honest. Chabad are NOT pushy while Tropper is famous for being super-pushy. Now he can see the results for himself writ large. It must be sheer agony for him to see Guma talk this way and be totally in the clutches of this small-time Chabad rabbi who probably Tropper/Roni would say is an "am haaratez and boor who doesn't know how to learn" but take note Tropper/Roni, this itty-bitty Chabad rabbi knows 100% how to do Kiruv, even when the circumstances are not perfect, and don't shout about bringing in goyim when you/Tropper spend all your working hours dreaming how to recruit goyim who don't even want to come to you, you force them to come with false advertising and stupid inducements like freeby stays in posh-o hotels with sweet-talking lecturers who are naive enough to come along for the ride.
"Aguiar and his family have since grown in their commitment to Judaism."
RaP: No understatement, he is putting his money where his mouth is big time.
"Aguiar studies Torah regularly, and has keen interest in Chabad Chasidic texts that explore the mystical aspects of Judaism."
RaP: Was this maybe the source for EJF's chalomes to mekarev and reach out to lost souls out there because a lot of what Tropper started doing with the establishment of EJF is absolutely out of character with Tropper's lifelong Yeshvish Litvish roots where such things, like the Chabad dreams of "tikkunim" are frowned upon.
Did Guma's koiches hanefesh and hashpa'ah, that you/Tropper ate chollent and all sorts of things bought with Guma's gelt that entered into your/Tropper's inner self and made you/Tropper blind to your/Tropper's own mistakes of trying to reach out to goyim hitched to Jews that somehow penetrated into Tropper's soul and he began to view the world in a different more "Chabadsker"/ proselytization light of dreaming forbidden dreams about reaching out to billion of lost souls in Lubavitcher Rebbe-like fashion? The nightmare that the BADATS warned about twice, see Bedatz letter regarding conversion (November 18, 2007) and Bedatz Letter regarding EJF signed by Gaavad (February 14, 2008) (copy of original):
"Distinguished Rabbi shlita, I am requesting from you - with every expression of entreaty - to stop and break off association with this organization (Eternal Jewish Family) which is a danger to the future of the Jewish people. Even isolated cases of this type of conversion (of intermarried couples) are extremely problematic. This is explicitly stated by the Achiezer (3:28) that “no kosher beis din should deal with this (the conversion of intermarried couples).” Also look in the Igros Moshe (E.H. 1:27) where he states “this whole issue of conversion of intermarried couples is personally totally distasteful even in isolated cases.” It is simply not acceptable to deal with the issue of intermarried couples in this manner and to openly reinforce their activities with public announcements and notices in newspapers and internet and other such means. They are in effect inviting non‑Jews to participate in a program of conversion through this publicity. It is a really damaging approach which unfortunately will bring about even more intermarriages and invalid conversions. Distinguished Rabbi shlita, please act according to your understanding and wisdom and desist from participating in this program (of the Eternal Jewish Family). It is a public danger. G‑d should assist you."
Anything is possible in this netherworld of millions of dollars pumping up delusions of grandeur and of converting the world to your false messianist views, right?
"Last month, he and wife Jamie Aguiar celebrated the circumcision of their newborn son at Chabad."
RaP: Why would a few Chabad sites say this if the kid was absolutely not Jewish? Tzarich iyun gadol, but in this day and age one truly needs an Eliyahu HaNovi to know right from wrong.
“I am proud to say that I consider a great deal of my financial success a by-product of my relationship with Chabad and an outgrowth of my religious journey,” said Aguiar. Shortly before the market went into a tailspin, EnCana Corp. purchased Leor Energy’s natural gas and land holdings in East Texas for $2.5 billion. “I feel G-d was looking out for me,” said Aguiar, who felt compelled to give back."
RaP: God, Chabad, his religious journey, and his success in business all made into one chollent, isn't that the way all megalomaniacs, including Tropper think? So no wonder he is being accused of some false messianism by his uncle Tom, but how would his uncle Tom know a false messiah from a true one since he is so attached to a false messiah of his own in the form of Tropper?
"Chabad of Fort Lauderdale plans to utilize the funds to expand its popular programs for children and adults. In Fort Lauderdale, Chabad runs additional three satellite branches in Las Olas, Lauderdale by the Sea and Harbor Beach, as well as the Filstein-Martin Torah Academy, and Sasson-Ovadia Hebrew School. A Friendship Circle Program will be opening in Harbor Beach this year. This September, Chabad extended its Mommy and Me and Bagel Babies programs into a preschool, Ganeinu. The center also hosts a branch of the Rohr Family Jewish Learning Institute and operates a mikvah and café."
RaP: What? And not one penny for EJF conferences to reach out to even more gentiles hitched to Jews? At least something good seems seems to be coming out of the money with concrete programs to help Jews in Florida rather than giving free meals to rabbis and to prospective converts to have anice time, hear hot air speecehs with nothing coming from it. And Guma's help with Nefesh BeNefesh is also interesting altho some may think it's also tainted by a secret malevolent Christian missionizing agenda. I'll let other posters deal with that pet horse of theirs.
"Aguiar, a pacesetter in the oil and energy world would like others to follow him in this philanthropic venture. “I encourage everyone to get involved in supporting their local Chabad center and the worldwide Lubavitch Headquarters. The Jewish people need to understand that taking care of Chabad should be a priority.”
RaP: Very strong words. Noone ever said he ever spoke like this about EJF and Tropper's projects or about any of the many rabbonim and their organizations at EJF concerts.
Guma Aguiar moves to Israel, now known as Yehudah David, his unrelenting PR Blitz continues, and enter Rabbi Tovia Singer into the story, he reveals that he was once "an Evangelical Christian, encouraged to participate in Christian youth groups and church events throughout his young life" and talks alot about "the Final Redemption". He also wants to help Christians "worship the G-d of Israel, "without any son or intermediary." Compares himself to "Queen Esther and wants to see the 3rd Temple Rebuilt. Is he genuine or his just another Christian Evangelical r"l? Time will tell!:
ReplyDeleteFrom Arutz Sheva.com:
Oil Tycoon Guma Aguiar Speaks about His Past
(IsraelNN.com) Israel National Radio's Yishai Fleisher spoke on Wednesday with oil magnate and philanthropist Guma Aguiar, the chairman of this year's Jerusalem Conference, about using his personal gain in order to transform the Jewish dream into a reality, and using discoveries which changed his life and the lives of thousands of Jews throughout Israel.
"The dream that our parents, grandparents, and great-great grandparents had… it begins with a profound trust in G-d and is accomplished by gathering the Jewish people from the Diaspora to their homeland," Aguiar told Fleisher, in a joint interview broadcast on Israel National News TV and Israel National Radio.
Aguiar has come a long way toward these understandings. Despite having been born Jewish, Aguiar was raised as an Evangelical Christian, encouraged to participate in Christian youth groups and church events throughout his young life. At the age of 26, Aguiar moved to Houston, Texas with the determination to find oil beneath the soil. Seeking out a Christian congregation to join, he encountered Rabbi Tovia Singer who has devoted his life to helping Jews in the church return back to the truth and beauty of the Jewish faith. Rabbi Singer is the founder of Outreach Judaism and popular talk show host on Israel National Radio.
Full Story:
Published: 01/28/09, 6:46 PM
[Photo: Fleisher, Guma, Gelbart
Israel News Photo: (file)]
Oil Tycoon Cashes In on Spiritual Dividends in Jerusalem
[NOTE: THERE IS ALSO A VIDEO INTERVIEW WITH GUMA AT THIS ARTICLE ON ARUTZ SHEVA.]
by Israel National News staff
(IsraelNN.com) Amongst the famous names in Israel rubbing elbows at a cocktail reception launching the 6th annual Jerusalem Conference on January 26, Israel National Radio's Yishai Fleisher spoke with oil magnate and philanthropist Guma Aguiar, the chairman of this year's conference, about using his personal gain in order to transform the Jewish dream into a reality, and using discoveries which changed his life and the lives of thousands of Jews throughout Israel.
"The dream that our parents, grandparents, and great-great grandparents had… it begins with a profound trust in G-d and is accomplished by gathering the Jewish people from the Diaspora to their homeland," Aguiar told Fleisher, in a joint interview broadcast on Israel National News TV and Israel National Radio. "Unless we have the dream of having a Temple that we would be able to serve our G-d with all of the [commandments], then ultimately, what are we doing here in Israel? That's the reason why my family came to the Holy Land. That's the reason why all our forefathers longed set foot in Israel. Based on my studying of our Hebrew scriptures, it is clear to me that our focus must be focused on sacred matters here in Israel. This inspiring endeavor will strengthen the Jewish state and, please G-d, hasten the redemption."
Aguiar has come a long way toward these understandings. Despite having been born Jewish, Aguiar was raised as an Evangelical Christian, encouraged to participate in Christian youth groups and church events throughout his young life. At the age of 26, Aguiar moved to Houston, Texas with the determination to find oil beneath the soil. Seeking out a Christian congregation to join, he encountered Rabbi Tovia Singer who has devoted his life to helping Jews in the church return back to the truth and beauty of the Jewish faith. Rabbi Singer is the founder of Outreach Judaism and popular talk show host on Israel National Radio.
"Initially, when I first heard about Rabbi Singer's efforts I thought that he must be some sort of anti-Christ, and I was really upset about his mission. So I decided to call him and argue with him. As a devout Christian, I couldn't fathom why he was doing this work! I asked him "What are you doing? You're trying to pull Jews out of the church? That's the worst thing you could possibly do," I argued. "Within 5 minutes of talking to Tovia, he entirely disassembled my entire belief system, and all the pieces of the puzzle came together within that first conversation. I repented during that first conversation, and I retuned immediately to my true heritage, the Jewish faith."
His revelation came at a price, however. Soon, his relationship with his family and friends began to crumble. "It was a disaster. My whole life went up in flames," Aguiar said. Yet after some time and discussion, things miraculously began to turn around. "Little by little, I was able to talk to them, and we started to build up a relationship," Aguiar said. "After asking certain questions…. My whole family did teshuva (repented), they've all made aliyah; and they're all living in Jerusalem now. It's a miracle, it's an absolute miracle, so I've dedicated my life to helping other people also find the truth." He has become a strong backer of Rabbi Singer's Outreach Judaism organization, encouraging Christians to "be really honest with themselves", and to understand that they can worship the G-d of Israel, "without any son or intermediary."
Aguiar, who is now known in Israel by his Hebrew name, Yehuda David, attributes his quest for spiritual truth with the blessing of discovering natural gas near Houston – one of the largest natural gas discoveries in North America in the last few decades through his company Leor Energy. In November 2007, the company sold its natural gas holdings for $2.55 billion, and Aguiar has become a generous philanthropist who now supports many vital Jewish organizations throughout Israel.
"How is it possible that I could have pinpointed this one massive discovery that nobody else had ever seen, two hours away from Houston?" Aguiar asked. "I had to be honest with myself. I quickly grasped that my shocking success was not due to a stroke of good luck. Only G-d could have blessed me with this remarkable discovery, and so now, I have to turn around and say - what can I do to bless G-d? What can I do to be His servant, His vessel, and repay Him for His manifold blessing and guidance?"
With this awareness in mind, Aguiar diversified his investment throughout the Land of Israel, providing financial support for rabbis, yeshivas, Jewish outreach and heritage organizations, and recently become a major backer of Nefesh b'Nefesh, an organization which assists North American and British Jews to make aliyah (immigrate to Israel). Aguiar became NbN's Chairman of Finance in 2008, after donating $8 million to the organization, money which Co-Founder and Chairman of NBN Tony Gelbart described as "vital" to record-breaking numbers of immigrants who have received NbN assistance.
Aguiar called his participation in helping Jews move to Israel "a truly sacred task," adding "There is no greater priority for the Jewish people or Israel than strengthening immigration from the US, Canada and the UK."
In 2008, Aguiar was named "Top Industry Executive of 2008" by Oil & Gas Investor Magazine, a distinction which brought with it many offers to head up companies, major public energy conglomerations, and even political positions. Yet instead of pursuing more wealth and prestige in America, Aguiar packed his bags and came to Israel. "In the beginning of 2008, after the sale of Leor's assets, I immediately decided to pack up 42 bags worth of luggage, came over here with my wife and family, and haven't left…I made aliyah in my mind a long time ago." Aguiar told Fleisher. "In terms of my career, I said "that's enough." I knew that G-d had given me what I needed to accomplish, and I was now in a unique position to make a meaningful difference, and that was the time that I left, and I didn't come back [to America]…. I decided to come here and just be a servant of G-d and do whatever possible for my nation."
Since moving to Israel, Aguiar has become increasingly involved in philanthropy throughout Israel and especially in Jerusalem. "I came to the conclusion – G-d has really put me in a position like Esther was in," Guma said. "I could do two things: I could either take my money that G-d has given me, and concluded that 'I'm so smart – my striking success was all because of me, I'm so great, I'm so brilliant'… or I could ultimately recognize this whole thing from start to finish was the result of G-d's blessings. I recognized the truth. I understood that I was bestowed with this success in order to serve the Almighty. G-d has protected and guided me all along the way, and He'll continue, because I have only one agenda, and that's to be His servant."
"You took shares in the G-d Company", Fleisher joked to Aguiar. "That's right," Aguiar said. "I invested in Jerusalem… I'm willing to take that investment and pass it on to my children and my children's children. That will be the most important investment, the biggest return on my capital, of any investment that I could have ever made."
The energy Aguiar is most focused on now is the one that he says he senses on the Temple Mount, the site of two destroyed Temples, and the place he says he hopes to witness the building of the third and final Temple.
"This is the core belief and dream of the Jewish people, I didn't make this up," Aguiar said. "If you're going to argue with me about this, now you've got to argue with Ezekiel, you've got to argue with Isaiah, you've got to argue with Daniel. I just look at them as an example, I listen to Jacob, I look at Abraham – they're the ones who found it, not me. Isaiah and Zechariah promises that the Torah will go forth from the Zion [the Temple], and all the nations of the world will know that there's one G-d, the G-d of Israel. Please G-d, I will merit to witness this final redemption quickly in our time."
The spin master of liesstrikes again: He is the artist of maknig a tzadik look like a rosgho and a rosho like a tzadik.
ReplyDeleteHe makes chollents all the time. He is so inconsistent with his views and will turn everything to attack tropper and dfend fraudulent conversions and declare shikssah and those who live with them as "baaley teshuva" and success and will in turn define kosher gerus where the covnert actually keeps the jewish law of covering the hair as failure and fanatic conversion.
On the one hand he is concerned about reaching out to intermarried couples when they actaullt change their ways to keep torah and mitzvot; but calls it an accomplsihment when a shikssah that does not keep shabbos befarhessaya is one of his "Baaley TEsvhua".
"By EJ Tansky
(lubavitch.com) Shattered by the murders in Mumbai, one energy magnate is picking up the pieces by making a significant contribution to a Florida Chabad center."
RAP: " EJF's own Guma Aguiar has fallen in with this crowd, and noch besser that he claims that he was always part of it, even when he was/is the lay Co-Chairman of EJF"
Roni: This belongs tot he fairy tales of the liar and spinmaster but in the world of reality: Guma belonged to Kol Yaakov and EJF giving money to the insitution thinking that EJF will convert his goyishe wife without committing to keep torah; but when tropper said that he won't convert wife until she keeps torah and mtizvot he then said that would stop giving money to EJf and then turned to R. Lypcyc and bought him off with the essnan zonah money to convert his goya which is still a goya since the conversion was witohut kabbolat mitzvot.
"In fact it's not clear if Tom Kaplan has or can dislodge Guma Aguiar as the official Co-Chairman of EJF because nothing has been revealed or made public by the normally paranoid and secretive Tropper-Kaplan duo".
Irrelevant to the real fact: that Guma stopped giving money to EJf because T did not want to covnert goya who didn't want to keep shabbos befarhessya.
"Now we know that they struck out and they are attacking Guma Aguiar and his wife full force. (That's how you treat family?"
Why is the goyas entitled to more respect than tropper and othetr people whom you the loshon horah machine attack at all times?
"What does it teach the millions of intermarrieds? To shame them in court and in the media?"
It teaches them that EJF does not reach out to those who do not wish to become reallly Jewish; unlike the lies of the liar who states that it wants to 'covnert BILLIONS" !!! It teaches integretiy and morality and truth!
"Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc announced today that Guma L. Aguiar, co-founder of Leor Energy, an oil exploration and production company based in East Texas, contributed an additional half million dollars to Chabad Lubavitch of Fort Lauderdale. The center will be renamed “The Guma Aguiar Family Campus.”
RaP: So now Guma Aguiar's Chabad rabbi and connection is fully revealed and it opnens up many questions. What role has Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc played behind the scenes when Guma was at the EJF?"
Roni: He took over when EJF was honest to convert the goya who didn't want to keep torah and mitzvot. He did what you RAP do, claim to be a tzadik when using the goya to rake in $$$ and buildings and power and atetmpt to destroy EJf!
RAP:". Was Tropper duped just as Guma duped his uncle Tom in business and philanthropy?"
He wasn;t duped. He acted in good faith but when he was convinced she wasn't for real he acted the honest way not to covnert the goya despite Guma's declaration that he would no longer give money to EJF.
“Guma has a heart of gold,” said Rabbi Lipszyc. In recent years, he's funded much of Chabad of Ft. Lauderdale's dynamic growth. "He's now agreed to make his most recent contribution public because he wants to show the world that this is how Chabad responds to the oppressive darkness of terrorism, by taking action and growing.”
RaP: Exactly how many years has this been going on? Why weren't all the ehrliche and choshuve rabbonim at EJF told that right at the very top of EJF, that the man (Guma) who was writing the checks is actually beholden to a Chabad rabbi not just recently but for quite a few years.
Roni:Because he was starting to write those checks as the Rabbis stood steadfast not giving in to the extortions to covnert the wife or else! unlike the other rabbi...
"If Tropper knew all this why didn't he and Kaplan scream earlier to warn rabbonim that they are receiving gelt with the taint of Chabad manipulation to it (as they would see it)?"
He warned Bomzer and other rabbis not to covnert that lady as she was not ready but the smell of the green $$$ was more persuasive!
"
"Just five years ago, Aguiar encountered Chabad’s kindness personally."
RaP: Well, that's about when he also got EJF started with Tom Kaplan, so the question is what was their original motivation and did it come from Chabad and and at what point did Rabbi Tropper step in?"
Roni: You quoted a lie! Guma was related to Tropper before he encountered Chabad. He wasn't enamored with chabad the way tthe media outlets portray until EJf didn't convert his wife and THisparticular chabad rabbi L. helped arrange this conversion! with the fake dayan bomzer!
"A lot has not been said and remains unknown, but for an organization like EJF that has spent so much on PR and getting it's message out, it comes as a total shock to learn that it all had Lubavitch roots, as far as this version being told here by Guma and his Chabad rabbi is concerned."
Indeed the spinmaster's lies again! It did not have other roots that tropper himself and this particular chabad erabbi used the disenchatment of Guma with EJf because they did not want to covnert the goya and they arranged the fake conversion!
"Born Jewish and raised by parents who accepted a different faith,"
RaP: What? Does that mean that Tom Kaplan's sister was a meshumedes (apostate) married to Otto the non-Jew? And these people created and controlled the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation that funded Rabbi Tropper and many other holy Torah mosdos to the tune of millions? Everything Tropper has done in the last few years, his Kol Yaakov yeshiva, the Horizons outreach and then EJF itself have all carried the name and imprint of the Lillina Jean Kaplan Foundation where, now we hear from Guma's mouth confirmed by his Chabad rabbi, that at the center and head office sat Guma and his mother (presumably Otto the father was also their, he must have been according to Kaplan's law suit) and they were actually people who had "accepted another faith" presumably meaning Christianity?"
Roni: It probably means that R Tropper helped him realiz that he was Jewish!
RaP:How can any thinking and caring Torah Jew believe that such a thing is kosher in any way?"
What's unkosher about getting a jew to realize that he is Jewish?
"Why was Kaplan oblivious only until now when he comes screaming at Guma so publicly"
ROni: Spinmaster: He is screaming about his claims of shenigaginas of guma not about his christian upbringing!
RAP:" where was Tropper when all this was gurgling around? He is smart, "
Attempting to make Guma realize and live his jewishness in a jewish way of life!
RAP:"he can tell when a lady starts taking off her sheitel and putting on pants hundreds of miles away and destroys her by negating a conversion,"
That is lot better and jewish that bomzer converting those ladies who walk around half like chava before chet etz haddaaas!!
Note the spinsmaster and liar: will criticize t for ensuring that the cfemale converts cover their hair like the jewish custom; he would rather have them convert with uncovered as minhag bomzer and call that success of brining "baaley teshuva" and this distortionist talks about "reaching to gentiles" when he encourages fake conversion to those gentiles!
" yet right under his very nose, his own "chasidimlach" are not even Jews and even worse, they are probably practcing Christians."
Roni: Actually the turth is that he tried to bring them closer to yiddishkeyt; it is those fake rabbis who distanced him from real yiddishkeyt when they gave a stamp of approval that he can live with a goya and declaring her jewess! and "baaley teshuva"!.
"Aguiar knew little of his Jewish heritage until he and a few friends stepped into Chabad of Fort Lauderdale one Friday evening."
RaP: Big questions here. Almost all BTs bump into Chabad and benefit from it on their journey to becoming more observant, but where was Tropper if, after all, Guma and his uncle Tom Kaplan also became chasidim of Tropper along the way? What happened? How did it happen? Whey and when did it happen? Just basic questions that need answers that will come to light sooner or later."
He was there before chabad attemting to bring him back to judaism! until these "Rabbis" approved of him living with a goya while Tropper did not want to give the same stamp of approval so Guma abandoned T to find solace with the rabbis that approved him to live with a goya!
"Rabbi Moshe Meir Lipszyc, executive director of Chabad of Fort Lauderdale, welcomed Aguiar and his buddies to share Sabbath dinner at the Lipszyc family home. Aguiar was surprised by the invitation."
"RaP: Again, where's Tom Kaplan at this time and how did Guma make the leap from eating chollent at the Chabad rabbi's house to becoming the Co-Chief Honcho at EJF lording it over hundreds of choshuve rabbonim? How did Klal Yisroel sink so low to fall into such a tricky trap?"
Roni: Spinmaster you have it backwards: He was an active member to ejf when he thought he would use the services of the rabbis to give the fake hechsher to his wife; when that did not worked he succefully found those rabbis (Bomzer and L) who glady and for $$$$ gave him what he wanted!
“This was before my success. I had never been to an orthodox synagogue before, and yet Rabbi Moshe Meir went out of his way to be there for me, with warmth, never being pushy,” Aguiar said.
"RaP: That's honest. Chabad are NOT pushy while Tropper is famous for being super-pushy."
You distorter and lfip flop! Decide: IS Tropper "puashy" or is he "reaching out to the billions"???? You are krummer drey kop!
ROni: I just hope that most chabadniks are not corrupt as this rabbi and do not feel that this is a "success" and RAP and his buddies do!
" Now he can see the results for himself writ large. It must be sheer agony for him to see Guma talk this way and be totally in the clutches of this small-time Chabad rabbi who probably Tropper/Roni would say is an "am haaratez and boor who doesn't know how to learn"
Roni: NOt at all! All honest rabbis are embarassed by the corruption of this rabbi! And the haters of chabad say: "you see, we knew all along, that they are only for the money!". RAP, i am not sure whether that rabbi is a bor and amhooretz; but that would be rather a compliment for otherwise i would call him (and YOU!) A monety fresser and seller of yiddishkeyt!
RaP: "but take note Tropper/Roni, this itty-bitty Chabad rabbi knows 100% how to do Kiruv, even when the circumstances are not perfect,"
Roni: krumer liar and spinmaster:
No one is envious of this! And no one would call tthis "kiruv" when they give a stamp of approval for goya and declare her fraudulently jewish! And you krummer and am hooretz should really learn real "kiruv" from Troper when he does not compromise on his principples and uses all efforts to make ONLY kosher CONVERSIONS, WHEN THE CANDIDATES IN DISTANT LOCATIONS WILL KEEP SHABBAT, KOSHER AND TAHARAT HAMISHPACHA and cover their hair! This is REAL kiruv and success! not sell out of judaism!
RAP: " and don't shout about bringing in goyim when you/Tropper spend all your working hours dreaming how to recruit goyim who don't even want to come to you, ":
ROni: Actually he does not recruit goyim; he converts only kosher gerim! and he is actually successful about this! unlike your buddies who call goyim and those who live with them Baaley teshuva!!!
"you force them to come with false advertising and stupid inducements like freeby stays in posh-o hotels with sweet-talking lecturers who are naive enough to come along for the ride".
Zilch and nada! They only convert kosher gerim! their converts keep judaism, shabbat, kashrut, taharat hamishpcha and dress tzinut! unlike your goyim whom you call "baaley teshuva"!
"Aguiar and his family have since grown in their commitment to Judaism."
RaP: No understatement, he is putting his money where his mouth is big time.
Roni: Yes, he is paying ESSNAN ZONAH for thoswe who gave the label '"giyoret" to a goya!
"Aguiar studies Torah regularly, and has keen interest in Chabad Chasidic texts that explore the mystical aspects of Judaism."
"RaP: Was this maybe the source for EJF's chalomes to mekarev and reach out to lost souls out there because a lot of what Tropper started doing with the establishment of EJF is absolutely out of character with Tropper's lifelong Yeshvish Litvish roots where such things, like the Chabad dreams of "tikkunim" are frowned upon".
roNI: Yes, Tropper did what he claims the present rabbis do with him; the only difference is that he did not convert his goyishe wife; while they did and he repays them with all the $$$and the nice words as ESSNAN ZONAH!
"The nightmare that the BADATS warned about twice, see Bedatz letter regarding conversion (November 18, 2007) and Bedatz Letter regarding EJF signed by Gaavad (February 14, 2008) (copy of original):
"Distinguished Rabbi shlita, I am requesting from you - with every expression of entreaty - to stop and break off association with this organization (Eternal Jewish Family) which is a danger to the future of the Jewish people. Even isolated cases of this type of conversion (of intermarried couples) are extremely problematic".
ROni: Actually, this story proves how the concerns of the BaDAtz did not materialize! How T withdrew from converting the goya! And actually their letter actually proves that Bomzer's and the R. L. activiies are a great danger to Jeiwsh people as their conversions are for the most part in the form of bringing goyim to klal yisroel.
RAP: "is explicitly stated by the Achiezer (3:28) that “no kosher beis din should deal with this (the conversion of intermarried couples).”
Roni: Actually and truthfully Achiezzer states there that the reason not to deal with such conversions is because they would not keep torah and mitzvot, ala Guma'ss wife! Achiezer was shunning BOMZER'S conversions! But T's wgho only converts those who commit to torah and mitzvot are actually approved by him in the previous responsa 26 and by implication in this same responsa. remember it is pirush hamilos and not "pilpulim". But in order for you to understand this, you better get a tutor!
" Also look in the Igros Moshe (E.H. 1:27) where he states “this whole issue of conversion of intermarried couples is personally totally distasteful even in isolated cases.”
Roni: He writes though in EH 4 that it is permissible to this to prevent a greater issur! But get a tutor before you read this, for this is very diffcult for am ahooretz and krummer kop!
RaP: "It is a really damaging approach which unfortunately will bring about even more intermarriages and invalid conversions. Distinguished Rabbi shlita, please act according to your understanding and wisdom and desist from participating in this program (of the Eternal Jewish Family). It is a public danger. G‑d should assist you."
Roni: Listen to the Badatz who is urging all of us to strop the association with Rabbis like Bomzer who bring about intermarriage and invalid conversions!
Last month, he and wife Jamie Aguiar celebrated the circumcision of their newborn son at Chabad."
RaP:" Why would a few Chabad sites say this if the kid was absolutely not Jewish? Tzarich iyun gadol, but in this day and age one truly needs an Eliyahu HaNovi to know right from wrong".
This is not a tzorich iyun even koton! they were fooled by trusting anything that their "Rabbi' says (your buddies) when they did not realize that "kessef vezohov metaher mamzerim"!
“I am proud to say that I consider a great deal of my financial success a by-product of my relationship with Chabad and an outgrowth of my religious journey,” said Aguiar. Shortly before the market went into a tailspin, EnCana Corp. purchased Leor Energy’s natural gas and land holdings in East Texas for $2.5 billion. “I feel G-d was looking out for me,” said Aguiar, who felt compelled to give back."
RaP: God, Chabad, his religious journey, and his success in business all made into one chollent, isn't that the way all megalomaniacs, including Tropper think? So no wonder he is being accused
Roni: Actaully a good chollent for a change! since they were the enablers the fake conversion of hife he paid them back with these flowring words, something that you are very familar with, the spinmaster of lies and distortions!
"Chabad of Fort Lauderdale plans to utilize the funds to expand its popular programs for children and adults. In Fort Lauderdale, Chabad runs additional three satellite branches in Las Olas, Lauderdale by the Sea and Harbor Beach, as well as the Filstein-Martin Torah Academy, and Sasson-Ovadia Hebrew School. A Friendship Circle Program will be opening in Harbor Beach this year. This September, Chabad extended its Mommy and Me and Bagel Babies programs into a preschool, Ganeinu. The center also hosts a branch of the Rohr Family Jewish Learning Institute and operates a mikvah and café."
RaP: What? And not one penny for EJF conferences to reach out to even more gentiles hitched to Jews? At least something good seems seems to be coming out of the money with concrete programs to help Jews in Florida rather than giving free meals to rabbis and to prospective converts to have anice time, hear hot air speecehs with nothing coming from it. And Guma's help with Nefesh BeNefesh is also interesting altho some may think it's also tainted by a secret malevolent Christian missionizing agenda. I'll let other posters deal with that pet horse of theirs.
"Aguiar, a pacesetter in the oil and energy world would like others to follow him in this philanthropic venture. “I encourage everyone to get involved in supporting their local Chabad center and the worldwide Lubavitch Headquarters. The Jewish people need to understand that taking care of Chabad should be a priority.”
RaP: Very strong words. Noone ever said he ever spoke like this about EJF and Tropper's projects or about any of the many rabbonim and their organizations at EJF concerts.
Roni: Yes, indeed, after the essnan zonah money and after the fake and ivlaid conversions (that BaDatz warns against the likes of bomzer) that those rabbis made despite Tropper's stuborness not to make, he had to give these essnan zonah $$$ and words!!!for their services!!
In response to my unrelenting questioning, Roni/Tropper, even though he kicks and shouts and drags his feet, is opening up and in self-defense of Tropper is revealing much new information about the relationship between Guma and Tropper and the differences that they supposedly had and how EJF fits into it. Roni/Tropper skips over many obvious points that I point out in my responses below starting with "RaP":
ReplyDelete"The spin master of liesstrikes again: He is the artist of maknig a tzadik look like a rosgho and a rosho like a tzadik."
RaP: Roni has a bad habit of cursing his debating partners. This is a very bad attribute. It does not win the audience over to Roni's side but just makes him look frustrated and childish. Roni also has difficulty with Western style argumentation. He clearly mistakes attempts at pure DESCRIPTION and EXPLANATION of all phenomena as some sort of "endorsement" or "attack" when it all I do is try to look at subjects from a few angles in order to better understand and grasp them and not as Roni does, by being a bombastic thruster of enforcing of only his view as "the only" view and justifying it by saying that only he speaks for Halacha when he clearly only cites and manipulates Halacha to justify his already pre-decided conditions. Be that as it may let us continue, because in this post Roni does reveal some interesting information about Guma and his relationship with Tropper and vice versa.
"He makes chollents all the time. He is so inconsistent with his views and will turn everything to attack tropper and dfend fraudulent conversions and declare shikssah and those who live with them as "baaley teshuva" and success and will in turn define kosher gerus where the covnert actually keeps the jewish law of covering the hair as failure and fanatic conversion."
RaP: Just from this segment one can see Roni/Tropper at work, that while he accuses an opponent whose views make him very uncomfortable as "producing chollents" one of his favorite well-worn accusations, he does the exact same thing by taking a slew of words and ideas and mixing them up out of context and arriving at faulty "conclusions" that were never said or meant by the person he wishes to cut down. So be it, let us move on to more salient revelations from Roni/Tropper.
"On the one hand he is concerned about reaching out to intermarried couples when they actaullt change their ways to keep torah and mitzvot; but calls it an accomplsihment when a shikssah that does not keep shabbos befarhessaya is one of his "Baaley TEsvhua"."
RaP: While Roni/Tropper dishes up more of the same drivel here, he seems convinced that he delivered a wonderful "overture" to this post of his. This is typical of a delusional person who is gifted with Torah knowldge, he just believes that noone is capable of understanding matters of great import the way his unique wisdom shines its lights on it. Such people are to be pitied. Onwards.
"Roni: This belongs tot he fairy tales of the liar and spinmaster but in the world of reality: Guma belonged to Kol Yaakov and EJF giving money to the insitution thinking that EJF will convert his goyishe wife without committing to keep torah;"
RaP: My words were based on analysing a news story, sorry if that was a trouble to you. At any rate, there is some good information that Roni/Tropper is admitting here for the first time, that Guma was indeed a long-time Tropper disciple. But then there is mention that Guma wanted an EJF conversion, but that is sort of strange because Guma is not coming looking for handouts from EJF when he is the Co-Chairman of EJF and writes the checks for it from the Kaplan Foundation he heads. So what is not being discussed here, is what went on between Tropper and Guma and Tom Kaplan when they cooked up the EJF cockamamy project in the first place? Guma must have been involved in the early planning of EJF and Tropper must have been happy to get Guma's and Kaplan's advice, after all they are billionares who know how to build businesses and Tropper has only run a tiny BT yeshiva with about 20 students at a time. So Roni/Tropper needs to explain how he/Tropper fell in with Guma's and Kaplan's idea in the first place and why they thought and planned to push it so hard when they knew it would be controversial? Perhaps the very fact that Guma was married to a gentile motivated him to get into this of EJF project? Some really serious answers need to be forthcoming and not just wrapped in insults that're useless mini red-herring and failed distractions, from finding what really went on and what really happened.
"but when tropper said that he won't convert wife until she keeps torah and mtizvot he then said that would stop giving money to EJf"
RaP: This did not happen right away. It's not as if there was this monolith called EJF and Guma had to beg from it to help his wife. No it may have been the other way around, Tropper had some rough idea about an EJF-type organization and he then came to Guma to get his input and Guma obviously then gave many millions to help EJF. Then somewhere down the line the issue of Guma's wife getting a conversion become more importnat to Guma. But it took a few years and in the meantime EJF was hosting hundreds of rabbis at its concerts who had no clue that EJF's own Co-Chairman Guma was married to a gentile woman who refused to be persuaded to get an EJF conversion. Surely very scandalous from any perspective.
"and then turned to R. Lypcyc and bought him off with the essnan zonah money to convert his goya which is still a goya since the conversion was witohut kabbolat mitzvot."
RaP: Such crude language of "essnan zonah" which means money earned from prostitution, but it's so disgracefull because it was the SAME money that Tropper was taking by the millions for his own Yeshiva Kol Yaakov his Horizons outreach program and for EJF and it would be the same thing to say that Tropper's yeshiva and Horizons and EJF were financed by Guma's "essnan zonah" -- so long as Guma is giving to Tropper and EJF it's kosher gelt, the minute Guma starts giving to Chabad and others it's "essnan zonah" -- such brutalization and mangling of logic that even an idiot could see it's wrong.
"In fact it's not clear if Tom Kaplan has or can dislodge Guma Aguiar as the official Co-Chairman of EJF because nothing has been revealed or made public by the normally paranoid and secretive Tropper-Kaplan duo".
Irrelevant to the real fact: that Guma stopped giving money to EJf because T did not want to covnert goya who didn't want to keep shabbos befarhessya."
RaP: Interesting, so we can assume from this that Guma is still one of the official Co-Chairmen of EJF, as he still heads the Kaplan Foundation from his uncle Tom wants to dislodge him by legal means. It's also very funny that all that matters is Guma giving money, when if as is alleged by poster Roni/Tropper Guma left Tropper because Tropper refused to convert Mrs. Guma, nevertheless Guma has certainly paid his dues to the tune of millions of dollars and if he remains as Co-Chairman of EJF the question arises what does that say about EJF that not only was it silent about the entire situation of Guma being married to a gentile who refused to get an EJF conversion as he doled out millions to unsuspecting rabbis, but now when they have renounced him and he is accused of betraying EJF's principles, yet EJF still has him as it official Co-Chairman? This too is remarkably scandalous.
"Now we know that they struck out and they are attacking Guma Aguiar and his wife full force. (That's how you treat family?"
Why is the goyas entitled to more respect than tropper and othetr people whom you the loshon horah machine attack at all times?"
RaP: Roni/Tropper is conflating issues again. He doesn't understand that when you study a subject you don't throw in all the questions on Earth before you clarify the subject first. This is a bad habit many yeshiva bochurim have, and it makes them feel clever and important by hacking op and shlogging op yennem before you even hear the whole story. They attack a statement with thirty points and kashyes without grasping and sticking to the actual case first and breaking it down first into its component elements. The subject of Tropper is one subject. The subject of Guma is another. The subject of Jamie, Guma's wife is a third. They are interconnected, But if one were to look at it from the point of view of Mrs. Guma, how would all this come across? What was she thinking and why was she so opposed to going with an EJF conversion? That is also something that needs to be clarified. And what role did Tropper play in her resistance that has now led to the smashing of EJF's credibility in the public eye, that Guma it's Co-Chairman who gave the millions was married to a shiksa who refused to get a kosher geirus? This needs to be explored and understood as now her husband is being accused of false messianism by his uncle Tom and Rabbi Tropper was/is once the key rabbi of all of them.
"What does it teach the millions of intermarrieds? To shame them in court and in the media?"
It teaches them that EJF does not reach out to those who do not wish to become reallly Jewish; unlike the lies of the liar who states that it wants to 'covnert BILLIONS" !!! It teaches integretiy and morality and truth!"
RaP: It teaches that the rule of EJF under Tropper will be like the rule of the Ayatolas in Iran with religious coercion, the ultimate fear of many secular Jews either interested in Judaism or those drawn to it. It is so curious that Tropper imagines he can wine and dine gentiles convicning them to convert, but when push comes to shove he will rule them with a controlling Stalinist iron fist worthy of the worst Totalitarian regime not worthy of the name "Judaism" -- that is why he is the wrong man for this job and he will continue to create more blunders -- the man has zero empathy and insight into human psychology, he is just looking for scalps of "converts" like in a cult looking for new recruits. In Tropper's world, Judaism does not look much different to Scientology or the Kaballah Center cult. And all this is sold to mainstream rabbis in the name of raising conversion standards which is a huge scandal.
"Roni: He took over when EJF was honest to convert the goya who didn't want to keep torah and mitzvot. He did what you RAP do, claim to be a tzadik when using the goya to rake in $$$ and buildings and power and atetmpt to destroy EJf!"
RaP: Minus the childish personal insults, there is a factual problem here, how could Guma have gone to the Chabad rabbi if for a few years he was so close with Tropper at Kol Yaakov yeshiva? Guma did not make a sudden flip and just fly off to the Chabad rabbi in Florida overnight. There was a process at work, and in that time, Guma was Co-Chairing EJF concerts to hundreds of rabbis while at the same time he was married to a gentile who refused to convert by EJF ways all while Guma was writing checks in the millions of dollars not just to EJF but to Tropper's other two projects, his yeshiva and Horizons.
"RAP:". Was Tropper duped just as Guma duped his uncle Tom in business and philanthropy?"
He wasn;t duped. He acted in good faith but when he was convinced she wasn't for real he acted the honest way not to covnert the goya despite Guma's declaration that he would no longer give money to EJF."
RaP: This is some honest information. Try to act this way all the time Roni/Tropper and not like a nervous nelly. By the way, why didn't Tropper return to Guma all the millions he got from him once he gave up on converting Guma's wife? What happened to all the money that Guma gave to Tropper, did Guma ever ask this or did he just let Tropper off the hook, even tho now you/Tropper attack him in the most vile and scandalous ways.
"Roni:Because he was starting to write those checks as the Rabbis stood steadfast not giving in to the extortions to covnert the wife or else! unlike the other rabbi..."
RaP: What "extortions"? Did they return all the money he had already given them? Who are the "rabbis" exactly was it just Tropper and one or two others and why weren't ALL the rabbis who came to EJF concerts told about this situation, don't you think that they should have been warned that there was a potential scandal in the backround maybe that could come out as it has now. They were tricked and betrayed by Tropper, plain and simple.
"If Tropper knew all this why didn't he and Kaplan scream earlier to warn rabbonim that they are receiving gelt with the taint of Chabad manipulation to it (as they would see it)?"
He warned Bomzer and other rabbis not to covnert that lady as she was not ready but the smell of the green $$$ was more persuasive!"
RaP: The above is disingenuous, you/Tropper were asked why all the rabbis who came to EJF concerts and who got gelt from the Kaplan Foundation weren't warned and, right here, you twist that, and you say that it was "Bomzer and other rabbis" who were told not to convert the lady, but that was already later and who cares what they said to Bomzer why would he listen to Tropper who hates him (you can't hate people and be rodef them and then expect them to cooperate and listen to you, can you now?) but the question is why weren't the rabbonim who attended the EJF concerts told that the EJF lay Co-Chairman was married to a shiksa and she was refusing to convert? Do you see that question now?
"Roni: You quoted a lie! Guma was related to Tropper before he encountered Chabad. He wasn't enamored with chabad the way tthe media outlets portray until EJf didn't convert his wife and THisparticular chabad rabbi L. helped arrange this conversion! with the fake dayan bomzer!"
RaP: Ok, sorry, thanks for clearing that up. That was important information. But it only strengthens the question of what went on between Guma and Tropper from the get-go when they were cooking up EJF, why did they come up with such a scheme to start with, and is it possible that Guma was influenced by his Christian missionary past that he openly admits too now in public. Wasn't Tropper supicious of any possible negative and harmfull Christian influence for Guma's motivation to help push and fund EJF on such a global scale?
"Indeed the spinmaster's lies again! It did not have other roots that tropper himself and this particular chabad erabbi used the disenchatment of Guma with EJf because they did not want to covnert the goya and they arranged the fake conversion!"
RaP: Pity that Roni/Tropper can't stick to just giving a full narrative without accusations and insults. You can do better than this Roni/Tropper but keep on trying, you may yet come up with some better information. Let's read on.
"Roni: It probably means that R Tropper helped him realiz that he was Jewish!"
RaP: Mazel Tov! But wait, in his latest Arutz Sheva interview Guma says that it was Rabbi Tovia Singer from Outreach Judaism who did that, so what's the scoop on that please? Or maybe you are confusing being in Tropper's yeshiva with realizing that one is Jewish, a big difference.
"RaP:How can any thinking and caring Torah Jew believe that such a thing is kosher in any way?"
What's unkosher about getting a jew to realize that he is Jewish?"
RaP: No that was not the issue I was raising it was how can one take huge amounts of money from people who are still rooted in missionary Christianity?
"Why was Kaplan oblivious only until now when he comes screaming at Guma so publicly"
ROni: Spinmaster: He is screaming about his claims of shenigaginas of guma not about his christian upbringing!"
RaP: The article says it's as much about allegations of false messianism against Guma as anything else.
"RAP:" where was Tropper when all this was gurgling around? He is smart, "
Attempting to make Guma realize and live his jewishness in a jewish way of life!"
RaP: And obviously he did not succeed and something went horribly wrong when Guma left Tropper, in the meantime hundreds of rabbonim at EJF concerts had no idea that Guma was married to a non-Jewish woman while he was giving them "Essnan Zonah" money (as you call it) and Tropper kept his mouth shut. It's surely a scandal.
"RAP:"he can tell when a lady starts taking off her sheitel and putting on pants hundreds of miles away and destroys her by negating a conversion,"
That is lot better and jewish that bomzer converting those ladies who walk around half like chava before chet etz haddaaas!!"
RaP: Hmm, now Bomzer is guilty for the original sin in Gan Eden as well? This is so weird talking to a zombie who cannot get Bomzer out of his rigid tightly wound box.
"Note the spinsmaster and liar: will criticize t for ensuring that the cfemale converts cover their hair like the jewish custom; he would rather have them convert with uncovered as minhag bomzer and call that success of brining "baaley teshuva" and this distortionist talks about "reaching to gentiles" when he encourages fake conversion to those gentiles!"
RaP: Having said none of the above, only Roni/Tropper's way of conflating and twisting words said in entirely different contexts that it's pointless to answer him the way he mangles ideas and notions together to the point of absurdity. If you would point out the exact points you dispute I would be glad to respond but not to this kind of verbal car crash induced by your hatchet job on my words.
"yet right under his very nose, his own "chasidimlach" are not even Jews and even worse, they are probably practcing Christians."
Roni: Actually the turth is that he tried to bring them closer to yiddishkeyt; it is those fake rabbis who distanced him from real yiddishkeyt when they gave a stamp of approval that he can live with a goya and declaring her jewess! and "baaley teshuva"!."
RaP: Interesting narrative. Keep it up.
"He was there before chabad attemting to bring him back to judaism! until these "Rabbis" approved of him living with a goya while Tropper did not want to give the same stamp of approval so Guma abandoned T to find solace with the rabbis that approved him to live with a goya!"
RaP: Good narrative. Sounds fairly typical of these types of people, but again the issue here is different because this Guma was heading up a major pro-conversions organization (EJF) and was in on it from the beginning, so his role in it is compromised and it puts its attendees at its concerts into a very embarrasing situtaion which could have been avoided if they were told then and not find out now from newspaper reports on the Internet which is a disgrace.
"Roni: Spinmaster you have it backwards: He was an active member to ejf when he thought he would use the services of the rabbis to give the fake hechsher to his wife; when that did not worked he succefully found those rabbis (Bomzer and L) who glady and for $$$$ gave him what he wanted!"
RaP: Ok, thanks for that, but it then only magnifies the question why the EJF rabbis like Tropper continued to take Guma's money and even why they did not return it to him once they went their ways and Tropper started cursing Guma and his wife?
"RaP: That's honest. Chabad are NOT pushy while Tropper is famous for being super-pushy."
You distorter and lfip flop! Decide: IS Tropper "puashy" or is he "reaching out to the billions"???? You are krummer drey kop!"
RaP: Tropper's style is pushy and reaching out to Billions makes him super-pushy, what's your problem?
"ROni: I just hope that most chabadniks are not corrupt as this rabbi and do not feel that this is a "success" and RAP and his buddies do!"
RaP: Chabad beat Tropper at his own game. That's just a statement of fact. They are both prone to major deviousness and shtik, unfortunately.
"Roni: NOt at all! All honest rabbis are embarassed by the corruption of this rabbi! And the haters of chabad say: "you see, we knew all along, that they are only for the money!". RAP, i am not sure whether that rabbi is a bor and amhooretz; but that would be rather a compliment for otherwise i would call him (and YOU!) A monety fresser and seller of yiddishkeyt!"
RaP: Roni/Tropper cannot resist the temptation to utter these childish outbursts. There is a tinge of niceness in this post that you could build on instead of resorting to mean-spirited words that distract from the main discussion.
"RaP: "but take note Tropper/Roni, this itty-bitty Chabad rabbi knows 100% how to do Kiruv, even when the circumstances are not perfect,"
Roni: krumer liar and spinmaster:
No one is envious of this! And no one would call tthis "kiruv" when they give a stamp of approval for goya and declare her fraudulently jewish! And you krummer and am hooretz should really learn real "kiruv" from Troper when he does not compromise on his principples and uses all efforts to make ONLY kosher CONVERSIONS, WHEN THE CANDIDATES IN DISTANT LOCATIONS WILL KEEP SHABBAT, KOSHER AND TAHARAT HAMISHPACHA and cover their hair! This is REAL kiruv and success! not sell out of judaism!"
RaP: Many kiruv workers would argue strongly against you/Tropper on this. Tropper is known as a strict fanatic and not everyone (almost noone in Kiruv actually) agrees with his shittas.
"RAP: " and don't shout about bringing in goyim when you/Tropper spend all your working hours dreaming how to recruit goyim who don't even want to come to you, ":
ROni: Actually he does not recruit goyim; he converts only kosher gerim! and he is actually successful about this! unlike your buddies who call goyim and those who live with them Baaley teshuva!!!"
RaP: This is getting to be so tiresome, as if we were in some never-ending verbal relay, but onwards we go.
"you force them to come with false advertising and stupid inducements like freeby stays in posh-o hotels with sweet-talking lecturers who are naive enough to come along for the ride".
Zilch and nada! They only convert kosher gerim! their converts keep judaism, shabbat, kashrut, taharat hamishpcha and dress tzinut! unlike your goyim whom you call "baaley teshuva"!"
Rap: Love those words, "zilch" and "nada" they are so cute! Who called agoy a Baal teshuva? There are BT's dating goyim or hitched to them and even EJF talks about those Jews who have made strides in Jewish observances and wish that their gentile mates could join them. The gentiles are bnever called BTs by ANYONE. Now you are being a twister of words, a big liar a hypocrite you know.
"Aguiar and his family have since grown in their commitment to Judaism."
RaP: No understatement, he is putting his money where his mouth is big time.
Roni: Yes, he is paying ESSNAN ZONAH for thoswe who gave the label '"giyoret" to a goya!"
RaP: Now, now, watch your mouth if that is so how was paying then it was the same "ESSNAN ZONAH" for Tropper and EJF when he was giving them his millions!
"Aguiar studies Torah regularly, and has keen interest in Chabad Chasidic texts that explore the mystical aspects of Judaism."
"RaP: Was this maybe the source for EJF's chalomes to mekarev and reach out to lost souls out there because a lot of what Tropper started doing with the establishment of EJF is absolutely out of character with Tropper's lifelong Yeshvish Litvish roots where such things, like the Chabad dreams of "tikkunim" are frowned upon".
roNI: Yes, Tropper did what he claims the present rabbis do with him; the only difference is that he did not convert his goyishe wife; while they did and he repays them with all the $$$and the nice words as ESSNAN ZONAH!"
RaP: Noch amol with this "ESSNAN ZONAH" talk when Tropper got the exact same gelt from Guma and thought then that he was getting manna from heaven. What a double standard!
"ROni: Actually, this story proves how the concerns of the BaDAtz did not materialize! How T withdrew from converting the goya! And actually their letter actually proves that Bomzer's and the R. L. activiies are a great danger to Jeiwsh people as their conversions are for the most part in the form of bringing goyim to klal yisroel."
RaP: Roni now performs this amazing feat of loop-de-loop by claiming that the BADATS was addressing itself to Rabbi Bomzer when they were specifically calling on Rabbi Tropper and EJF to stop their controversial activities. As usual Tropper tries to prove he is "right" from the fact that someone else is "wrong" -- very poor logic and false argumentation.
"RAP: "is explicitly stated by the Achiezer (3:28) that “no kosher beis din should deal with this (the conversion of intermarried couples).”
Roni: Actually and truthfully Achiezzer states there that the reason not to deal with such conversions is because they would not keep torah and mitzvot, ala Guma'ss wife! Achiezer was shunning BOMZER'S conversions! But T's wgho only converts those who commit to torah and mitzvot are actually approved by him in the previous responsa 26 and by implication in this same responsa. remember it is pirush hamilos and not "pilpulim". But in order for you to understand this, you better get a tutor!"
RaP: So now, while he huffs and puffs and blasts at me, Roni/Tropper continues the amazing delusional charade by twisting the direction of the BADATS's letter SEPCIFICALLY that was aimed against EJF and Rabbi Tropper and alleges that they did not mean Tropper at all (he is too good and prefect to be violating anything) but they were "really" aiming at Bomzer and rebuking him. How absurd and dishonest and devious is that!?
" Also look in the Igros Moshe (E.H. 1:27) where he states “this whole issue of conversion of intermarried couples is personally totally distasteful even in isolated cases.”
Roni: He writes though in EH 4 that it is permissible to this to prevent a greater issur! But get a tutor before you read this, for this is very diffcult for am ahooretz and krummer kop!"
RaP: This is Roni/Tropper's favorite shtikkel of distortion, that Rav Moshe Feinstein actually, from the grave, "blesses" and concurs with all of Tropper's and EJF's forbidden proselytization. There is a reason men like Tropper get as far as they do even though they are distorters and charlatans, like Rasputin they get into circles of power with their charisma and because they are smart enough to distort words of Torah to say things that were never meant by the authors, and this case illustrates it well.
"RaP: "It is a really damaging approach which unfortunately will bring about even more intermarriages and invalid conversions. Distinguished Rabbi shlita, please act according to your understanding and wisdom and desist from participating in this program (of the Eternal Jewish Family). It is a public danger. G‑d should assist you."
Roni: Listen to the Badatz who is urging all of us to strop the association with Rabbis like Bomzer who bring about intermarriage and invalid conversions!"
RaP: Roni/Tropper is nuts that he can imagaine that the BADATS was talking to Bomzer, a retired Young Israel Modern Orthodox rabbi from YU they could care less about, when they were addressing the dangerous Tropper directly!
"Last month, he and wife Jamie Aguiar celebrated the circumcision of their newborn son at Chabad."
RaP:" Why would a few Chabad sites say this if the kid was absolutely not Jewish? Tzarich iyun gadol, but in this day and age one truly needs an Eliyahu HaNovi to know right from wrong".
This is not a tzorich iyun even koton! they were fooled by trusting anything that their "Rabbi' says (your buddies) when they did not realize that "kessef vezohov metaher mamzerim"!"
RaP: How did a goy become a mamzer unless you/Tropper know or did something that the rest of the world does not know about?
“I am proud to say that I consider a great deal of my financial success a by-product of my relationship with Chabad and an outgrowth of my religious journey,” said Aguiar. Shortly before the market went into a tailspin, EnCana Corp. purchased Leor Energy’s natural gas and land holdings in East Texas for $2.5 billion. “I feel G-d was looking out for me,” said Aguiar, who felt compelled to give back."
RaP: God, Chabad, his religious journey, and his success in business all made into one chollent, isn't that the way all megalomaniacs, including Tropper think? So no wonder he is being accused
Roni: Actaully a good chollent for a change! since they were the enablers the fake conversion of hife he paid them back with these flowring words, something that you are very familar with, the spinmaster of lies and distortions!"
RaP: Now we have good chollents versus sour chollents and the like. It's hard to keep track of these Jewish cullinery terms.
"Roni: Yes, indeed, after the essnan zonah money and after the fake and ivlaid conversions (that BaDatz warns against the likes of bomzer) that those rabbis made despite Tropper's stuborness not to make, he had to give these essnan zonah $$$ and words!!!for their services!!"
RaP: The BADATS did not warn about the likes of Bomzer, that job it leaves for people like Rabbi Nochum Eisenstein, but rather the BADATS addressed itself to Tropper directly (and don't act dumb please) to stop his mass fraudulent attempts at reaching out to gentiles married to Jews, a very Christian missionary idea that may have come from Guma's past missionary experiences and psyche because Judaism has never practiced nor condoned nor accepted mass proselytization anywher at any time for any reason to any group for whatever reason no matter what.
The spin master of liesstrikes again: He is the artist of maknig a tzadik look like a rosgho and a rosho like a tzadik."
ReplyDeleteRaP: Roni has a bad habit of cursing his debating partners. This is a very bad attribute. It does not win the audience over to Roni's side but just makes him look frustrated and childish
Roni: like RAP's histerical chollen t makes up for serious logical argumentation! Your facts are filled with lies, yout views are meatless, you ideas are inconsistent! and on andf on and on and you are a big am hooretz filled with hate and childish comments about tropper!
RAP:"Roni also has difficulty with Western style argumentation. He clearly mistakes attempts at pure DESCRIPTION and EXPLANATION of all phenomena as some sort of "endorsement" or "attack" when it all I do is try to look at subjects from a few angles"
Roni: you do not look from any angle. You mix up all angles and make chollent "description". You "explain?" bomzer when your "Explanation' fits more to defend "tropper; you "decribe" tropper fallouts when thety actually fit bomzer's. You lackk solid foundation to all your arguments. You begin with you conclusion and from there attemtp to make you points filled with innuenedo...
Roni: RAP comes bvack "Defending" his fake dayan, that Roni states "his view as "the only" view"' when he for years long makes beleive that his view about tropper is the "only bview" and on
raP:" and justifying it by saying that only he speaks for Halacha when he clearly only cites and manipulates Halacha"
Roni: the amhooretz who cannot discuss any issue besides what he grabs from sources in the internet is going to tell about "manipulating halacha". GEt a tutor and start reading and then discuss the issues. shoteh!
"He makes chollents all the time. He is so inconsistent with his views and will turn everything to attack tropper and dfend fraudulent conversions and declare shikssah and those who live with them as "baaley teshuva" and success and will in turn define kosher gerus where the covnert actually keeps the jewish law of covering the hair as failure and fanatic conversion."
RaP: Just from this segment one can see Roni/Tropper at work, that while he accuses an opponent whose views make him very uncomfortable as "producing chollents" one of his favorite well-worn accusations, he does the exact same thing by taking a slew of words and ideas and mixing them up out of context and arriving at faulty "conclusions" that were never said or meant by the person he wishes to cut down. So be it, let us move on to more salient revelations from Roni/Tropper."
NADA AND ZILCH EXCEPT MAKIBNG A STATEMENT THATIS NOT BORNE OUT IN ANY FACTS. Actually Rap is guilty of all tihings i wrote as one can see in allof his chollent tratises.
"On the one hand he is concerned about reaching out to intermarried couples when they actaullt change their ways to keep torah and mitzvot; but calls it an accomplsihment when a shikssah that does not keep shabbos befarhessaya is one of his "Baaley TEsvhua"."
RaP: While Roni/Tropper dishes up more of the same drivel here, he seems convinced that he delivered a wonderful "overture" to this post of his. This is typical of a delusional person who is gifted with Torah knowldge, he just believes that noone is capable of understanding matters of great import the way his unique wisdom shines its lights on it. Such people are to be pitied. Onwards"
A BUNCH OF NOTNHING NADA AND ZILCH JUST TAKINGMORE SPACE AND TIME TO READ BOBEH MAYSSES.!.
"Roni: This belongs tot he fairy tales of the liar and spinmaster but in the world of reality: Guma belonged to Kol Yaakov and EJF giving money to the insitution thinking that EJF will convert his goyishe wife without committing to keep torah;"
RaP: My words were based on analysing a news story, sorry if that was a trouble to you. At any rate, there is some good information that Roni/Tropper is admitting here for the first time, that Guma was indeed a long-time Tropper disciple. But then there is mention that Guma wanted an EJF conversion, but that is sort of strange because Guma is not coming looking for handouts from EJF when he is the Co-Chairman of EJF and writes the checks for it from the Kaplan Foundation he heads."
roNI: THE SHOTEH STARTS SPEAKING OF WHAT HE DOES NOT KNOW. HE SHOOTS FROM THE HIP ALL THETIME INSTEAD OF TRYING TO FIND OUT FIRST. In any event: there is NOTHING strange when Guma tried to use the oprganization to help him out!
Rap:" So what is not being discussed here, is what went on between Tropper and Guma and Tom Kaplan when they cooked up the EJF cockamamy project in the first place? Guma must have been involved in the early planning of EJF and Tropper must have been happy to get Guma's and Kaplan's advice, after all they are billionares who know how to build businesses and Tropper has only run a tiny BT yeshiva with about 20 students at a time. So Roni/Tropper needs to explain how he/Tropper fell in with Guma's and Kaplan's idea in the first place and why they thought and planned to push it so hard when they knew it would be controversial?"
Roni: RAP asks questions as if they will prove anything in his favour! I do nto know the answer to these questions because I do not know the issues as they started first. But i do not shoot from the hip before attacking someone. And the questions you present may have multi[ple answers one thatperhaps: 1) it was tropper's idea in the first palce, 2) when talknig about the issue he propsed to them...3) the idea he discussed with rabbonim and so on and so foryth... But I pdersonally do not of these things. But they do not show anytghing in either direction.
RAP:" Perhaps the very fact that Guma was married to a gentile motivated him to get into this of EJF project? "
ROni: as said i do not know the answer to these questions. But before knowing them I do not shoot fro m the hip to attack him; when i attack bomzer i do so from personal knowledge!
RAP:Some really serious answers need to be forthcoming and not just wrapped in insults that're useless mini red-herring and failed distractions, from finding what really went on and what really happened.
/Roni: and some soul searching by the spinmaster when he shoots from the hip attacking anyone that he dislikes and that took away some of his $$$$ to legitimze atacking someone. But forget about this, he is a shoteh and gas ruach and abig am hooretz.
but when tropper said that he won't convert wife until she keeps torah and mtizvot he then said that would stop giving money to EJf"
RaP: This did not happen right away. It's not as if there was this monolith called EJF and Guma had to beg from it to help his wife. No it may have been the other way around, Tropper had some rough idea about an EJF-type organization and he then came to Guma to get his input and Guma obviously then gave many millions to help EJF. Then somewhere down the line the issue of Guma's wife getting a conversion become more importnat to Guma. But it took a few years and in the meantime EJF was hosting hundreds of rabbis at its concerts who had no clue that EJF's own Co-Chairman Guma was married to a gentile woman who refused to be persuaded to get an EJF conversion. Surely very scandalous from any perspective".
Roni: What are you hacking? The idea of covnerting may have started earlier on and he may told the rabbis that there may be a process. and may take time. Tehn ultimately after a while he found out that she was not interested he refused to covnert her. And thebn your buddies took over with receivng essnan zonah.
"and then turned to R. Lypcyc and bought him off with the essnan zonah money to convert his goya which is still a goya since the conversion was witohut kabbolat mitzvot."
RaP: Such crude language of "essnan zonah" which means money earned from prostitution, but it's so disgracefull because it was the SAME money that Tropper was taking by the millions for his own Yeshiva Kol Yaakov his Horizons outreach program and for EJF and it would be the same thing to say that Tropper's yeshiva and Horizons and EJF were financed by Guma's "essnan zonah" -- so long as Guma is giving to Tropper and EJF it's kosher gelt, the minute Guma starts giving to Chabad and others it's "essnan zonah" -- such brutalization and mangling of logic that even an idiot could see it's wrong."
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Roni: shoteh otzum!! essnan zonah is a money accepted for DOING AN AVERAH!! NOT FOR PREPARING SOMEONE TO CONVERT OR HELPING OTHER TO COVNERT HALACHIKALLY YOU A REAL SHOTEH!!! aEven if you siagrewe with tropper his receivng money to help conversions is nto "essnan zonah"! for he only converts someone who keeps torah and mtizvot as sghown in gthis story that he did not convert guma's wife.
"In fact it's not clear if Tom Kaplan has or can dislodge Guma Aguiar as the official Co-Chairman of EJF because nothing has been revealed or made public by the normally paranoid and secretive Tropper-Kaplan duo".
Irrelevant to the real fact: that Guma stopped giving money to EJf because T did not want to covnert goya who didn't want to keep shabbos befarhessya."
RaP: Interesting, so we can assume from this that Guma is still one of the official Co-Chairmen of EJF, as he still heads the Kaplan Foundation from his uncle Tom wants to dislodge him by legal means. It's also very funny that all that matters is Guma giving money, when if as is alleged by poster Roni/Tropper Guma left Tropper because Tropper refused to convert Mrs. Guma, nevertheless Guma has certainly paid his dues to the tune of millions of dollars and if he remains as Co-Chairman of EJF the question arises what does that say about EJF that not only was it silent about the entire situation of Guma being married to a gentile who refused to get an EJF conversion as he doled out millions to unsuspecting rabbis, but now when they have renounced him and he is accused of betraying EJF's principles, yet EJF still has him as it official Co-Chairman? This too is remarkably scandalous"
Roni: every minute you show more that shoteh that you are! He was in the process of assessing tosee if she becomes ready to covnert! she ultimately decides that she is not gonig to keep torah andmitzvot. While in the process he took money for a legitimate cause, not doing any avera when she did not want to do gerut according to halacha guma drops his money. .
"Now we know that they struck out and they are attacking Guma Aguiar and his wife full force. (That's how you treat family?"
Why is the goyas entitled to more respect than tropper and othetr people whom you the loshon horah machine attack at all times?"
RAP: "is explicitly stated by the Achiezer (3:28) that “no kosher beis din should deal with this (the conversion of intermarried couples).”
Roni: Actually and truthfully Achiezzer states there that the reason not to deal with such conversions is because they would not keep torah and mitzvot, ala Guma'ss wife! Achiezer was shunning BOMZER'S conversions! But T's wgho only converts those who commit to torah and mitzvot are actually approved by him in the previous responsa 26 and by implication in this same responsa. remember it is pirush hamilos and not "pilpulim". But in order for you to understand this, you better get a tutor!"
RaP: So now, while he huffs and puffs and blasts at me, Roni/Tropper continues the amazing delusional charade by twisting the direction of the BADATS's letter SEPCIFICALLY that was aimed against EJF and Rabbi Tropper and alleges that they did not mean Tropper at all (he is too good and prefect to be violating anything) but they were "really" aiming at Bomzer and rebuking him. How absurd and dishonest and devious is that!?
Roni: the spinmaster of lies and distortions: All i'm saying that while they did address the EJF etc. they made a mistake! For all the accusations do not hold water in light of the writings of those teshuvot they made a mistake for in those teshuvot they permit troper to do what he is doing! Get a tutor and try to actaully discuss the *issues* (as opposed to your sour chollent and long treatises filled with nothing) and see if you can handle a discussion based on pirush hamilot!
" Also look in the Igros Moshe (E.H. 1:27) where he states “this whole issue of conversion of intermarried couples is personally totally distasteful even in isolated cases.”
Roni: He writes though in EH 4 that it is permissible to this to prevent a greater issur! But get a tutor before you read this, for this is very diffcult for am ahooretz and krummer kop!"
RaP: This is Roni/Tropper's favorite shtikkel of distortion, that Rav Moshe Feinstein actually, from the grave, "blesses" and concurs with all of Tropper's and EJF's forbidden proselytization. There is a reason men like Tropper get as far as they do even though they are distorters and charlatans, like Rasputin they get into circles of power with their charisma and because they are smart enough to distort words of Torah to say things that were never meant by the authors, and this case illustrates it well".
Roni: are you for real?? are you such am hooretz??? I'm telling that Rav Moshe in the teshuvot (and i showed Rav Edensohn where and how he writes these things) writes about "issur kal " and "issur chomur" and how it is permitted to covnert leshem ishut toprrotect from issur chomur. I'm telling you: you need a serious tutor to help you untangle from seruious booross!
Roni: Listen to the Badatz who is urging all of us to strop the association with Rabbis like Bomzer who bring about intermarriage and invalid conversions!"
RaP: Roni/Tropper is nuts that he can imagaine that the BADATS was talking to Bomzer, a retired Young Israel Modern Orthodox rabbi from YU they could care less about, when they were addressing the dangerous Tropper directly!
ROni: Rap start paying attention to what they write, what they write is more pertinent to fake dayan bomzer as to tropper; while they dio not address him personally; the letter tells us that the choshuve Badatz considers Bomzer's type of gerut a sham!
"Last month, he and wife Jamie Aguiar celebrated the circumcision of their newborn son at Chabad."
RaP:" Why would a few Chabad sites say this if the kid was absolutely not Jewish? Tzarich iyun gadol, but in this day and age one truly needs an Eliyahu HaNovi to know right from wrong".
This is not a tzorich iyun even koton! they were fooled by trusting anything that their "Rabbi' says (your buddies) when they did not realize that "kessef vezohov metaher mamzerim"!"
RaP: How did a goy become a mamzer unless you/Tropper know or did something that the rest of the world does not know about?
ROni: I knew you are am hooretz but such an am hooretz??? Ask around peolle who kow a little bit...(not a lot) and they will tell you the meaning of this experssion. IN short it means: that money puruifies things that are defiled! whether mamzerim or goyim that are not kosher to lvied with am kadosh are "purified" with "kessef vezahav".
“I am proud to say that I consider a great deal of my financial success a by-product of my relationship with Chabad and an outgrowth of my religious journey,” said Aguiar. Shortly before the market went into a tailspin, EnCana Corp. purchased Leor Energy’s natural gas and land holdings in East Texas for $2.5 billion. “I feel G-d was looking out for me,” said Aguiar, who felt compelled to give back."
RaP: God, Chabad, his religious journey, and his success in business all made into one chollent, isn't that the way all megalomaniacs, including Tropper think? So no wonder he is being accused
Roni: Actaully a good chollent for a change! since they were the enablers the fake conversion of hife he paid them back with these flowring words, something that you are very familar with, the spinmaster of lies and distortions!"
RaP: Now we have good chollents versus sour chollents and the like. It's hard to keep track of these Jewish cullinery terms.
Roni: I know you are big am hooretz who does not tha torah and halacha speaks of "Chet kal" and "Chet chomur" and RMF and RCOG talk about it. Get a tutor and you'll for yourself.
RaP: The BADATS did not warn about the likes of Bomzer, that job it leaves for people like Rabbi Nochum Eisenstein, but rather the BADATS addressed itself to Tropper directly (and don't act dumb please) "
Roni: But their warning are more relevant and applicable to bomzer than to tropper.
RAp:" to stop his mass fraudulent attempts at reaching out to gentiles married to Jews, "
ROni: a lie again; it is not "Faudulent" as he does not convert if the candidate does not keep torah andmtiz vot. He only does gerey tzedek!
"RAP:a very Christian missionary idea that may have come from Guma's "
no issur in the torah; whereas your bomzer and R L made an issur gomur of defrauding klal yisroel with a fake convert for $$$$nan zonah!
RaP: This is some honest information. Try to act this way all the time Roni/Tropper and not like a nervous nelly. By the way, why didn't Tropper return to Guma all the millions he got from him once he gave up on converting Guma's wife?
ReplyDeleteRoni: why should he? He is nto bomze who receives essnan zonah services! He got the money for services the organization makes to oother jews.
RAP:" What happened to all the money that Guma gave to Tropper, did Guma ever ask this or did he just let Tropper off the hook, even tho now you/Tropper attack him in the most vile and scandalous ways."
Roni: have no idea!
"Roni:Because he was starting to write those checks as the Rabbis stood steadfast not giving in to the extortions to covnert the wife or else! unlike the other rabbi..."
RaP: What "extortions"? Did they return all the money he had already given them? Who are the "rabbis" exactly was it just Tropper and one or two others and why weren't ALL the rabbis who came to EJF concerts told about this situation,"
Roni: what are you smoking? Guma wanted EJF to covnert; he threatened styoping giving money. He stoped giving money. Troper did not cave in as your bomzer and lypsc.
RAP: don't you think that they should have been warned that there was a potential scandal in the backround maybe that could come out as it has now. They were tricked and betrayed by Tropper, plain and simple."
ROni: shoteh, they probably were. He probably consulted them all the way how to proceed.
"If Tropper knew all this why didn't he and Kaplan scream earlier to warn rabbonim that they are receiving gelt with the taint of Chabad manipulation to it (as they would see it)?"
He warned Bomzer and other rabbis not to covnert that lady as she was not ready but the smell of the green $$$ was more persuasive!"
RaP: The above is disingenuous, you/Tropper were asked why all the rabbis who came to EJF concerts and who got gelt from the Kaplan Foundation weren't warned and, right here, you twist that, and you say that it was "Bomzer and other rabbis" who were told not to convert the lady,"
Roni: why not shoteh, whhy not mention the sequenceo f events to show that tropper is honest adn bomzert A DISHONEST CROOK! AND BOMZER'S DISHONESTY SHOWS EVEN MORE TROPPER'S HONESTY AT THIS POINT!
rap:"but that was already later and who cares what they said to Bomzer why would he listen to Tropper who hates him "
rONI: SHOTEH, ANYONE WHO CARES for halacha WOULDLISTEN TO WARNINGS THAT THIS LADY IS NOT INTERESTED TO SHOMER SHABBOS,
RAP: " but the question is why weren't the rabbonim who attended the EJF concerts told that the EJF lay Co-Chairman was married to a shiksa and she was refusing to convert? Do you see that question now?"
rONI: DO NOT KNOW, BUT imagine that he connsulted with rabbis and told them that this person would like to convert his wife. MAybe they initially tried to see if she would be willing. MAybe she also wanted to see if she would be willing.... They probably consented thinking that she would commit to torah. That did not happen...
"Roni: You quoted a lie! Guma was related to Tropper before he encountered Chabad. He wasn't enamored with chabad the way tthe media outlets portray until EJf didn't convert his wife and THisparticular chabad rabbi L. helped arrange this conversion! with the fake dayan bomzer!"
RaP: Ok, sorry, thanks for clearing that up. That was important information. But it only strengthens the question of what went on between Guma and Tropper from the get-go when they were cooking up EJF, why did they come up with such a scheme to start with, and is it possible that Guma was influenced by his Christian missionary past that he openly admits too now in public. Wasn't Tropper supicious of any possible negative and harmfull Christian influence for Guma's motivation to help push and fund EJF on such a global scale?"
ROni
: no idea..And maybe tropper thought that he seriosly wanted to discover and live jewishly....
"Indeed the spinmaster's lies again! It did not have other roots that tropper himself and this particular chabad erabbi used the disenchatment of Guma with EJf because they did not want to covnert the goya and they arranged the fake conversion!"
"Roni: It probably means that R Tropper helped him realiz that he was Jewish!"
RaP: Mazel Tov! But wait, in his latest Arutz Sheva interview Guma says that it was Rabbi Tovia Singer from Outreach Judaism who did that, so what's the scoop on that please? Or maybe you are confusing being in Tropper's yeshiva with realizing that one is Jewish, a big difference.
ROni: shoteh that today he does not credit Tropper for anything, you prove that he did not have anything to do with his discovery??? look in the websites and you wll see him being particiaping in Hachnosasas sefre torah at kol yaakov in 2004. CErtainly tropper had something to do with hiss reconnection with yiddishkeyt. he did not know at time chabad. Nothing in the sites bring him back more than tweo years ago when the essnan zonah performed...
"RaP:How can any thinking and caring Torah Jew believe that such a thing is kosher in any way?"
What's unkosher about getting a jew to realize that he is Jewish?"
RaP: No that was not the issue I was raising it was how can one take huge amounts of money from people who are still rooted in missionary Christianity?
Roni: What a shtuss vehevel! How did R Lypscyc take money from such a root? How did bomzer take m oney from such person?????
As long as he was not influenced by guma and he was NOT , as he refused to obey to his requests, bedieved there is no problem!
"Why was Kaplan oblivious only until now when he comes screaming at Guma so publicly"
ROni: Spinmaster: He is screaming about his claims of shenigaginas of guma not about his christian upbringing!"
RaP: The article says it's as much about allegations of false messianism against Guma as anything else.
"RAP:" where was Tropper when all this was gurgling around? He is smart, "
Attempting to make Guma realize and live his jewishness in a jewish way of life!"
RaP: And obviously he did not succeed and something went horribly wrong when Guma left Tropper, in the meantime hundreds of rabbonim at EJF concerts had no idea that Guma was married to a non-Jewish woman while he was giving them "Essnan Zonah" money (as you call it) and Tropper kept his mouth shut. It's surely a scandal.
ROni: again probably many rabbonim at the top did know of the situation and they probably instructed him all the way. And tropper did not fafall the trap that you buddies did by succumbing to the $$$of essnan zonah that bomzer and lypcsc did!
"RAP:"he can tell when a lady starts taking off her sheitel and putting on pants hundreds of miles away and destroys her by negating a conversion,"
That is lot better and jewish that bomzer converting those ladies who walk around half like chava before chet etz haddaaas!!"
RaP: Hmm, now Bomzer is guilty for the original sin in Gan Eden as well? This is so weird talking to a zombie who cannot get Bomzer out of his rigid tightly wound box.
RONi: Yes, he is guilty for covneting shikssahs who are not the least of dass moshe !!!
"Note the spinsmaster and liar: will criticize t for ensuring that the cfemale converts cover their hair like the jewish custom; he would rather have them convert with uncovered as minhag bomzer and call that success of brining "baaley teshuva" and this distortionist talks about "reaching to gentiles" when he encourages fake conversion to those gentiles!"
"yet right under his very nose, his own "chasidimlach" are not even Jews and even worse, they are probably practcing Christians."
Roni: Actually the turth is that he tried to bring them closer to yiddishkeyt; it is those fake rabbis who distanced him from real yiddishkeyt when they gave a stamp of approval that he can live with a goya and declaring her jewess! and "baaley teshuva"!."
RaP: Interesting narrative. Keep it up.
"He was there before chabad attemting to bring him back to judaism! until these "Rabbis" approved of him living with a goya while Tropper did not want to give the same stamp of approval so Guma abandoned T to find solace with the rabbis that approved him to live with a goya!"
RaP: Good narrative. Sounds fairly typical of these types of people, but again the issue here is different because this Guma was heading up a major pro-conversions organization (EJF) and was in on it from the beginning, so his role in it is compromised"
Not based on the fact on the ground! The facts on the ground have proven that his influence did not carry weight to twist torpper and the rabbis arms to perform the essnan zonah act that bomzer and lypscyc did!
"Roni: Spinmaster you have it backwards: He was an active member to ejf when he thought he would use the services of the rabbis to give the fake hechsher to his wife; when that did not worked he succefully found those rabbis (Bomzer and L) who glady and for $$$$ gave him what he wanted!"
RaP: Ok, thanks for that, but it then only magnifies the question why the EJF rabbis like Tropper continued to take Guma's money and even why they did not return it to him once they went their ways and Tropper started cursing Guma and his wife?
Roni: not at all! As he did not play the role of deciding halachik shayloss and deciding thalachik policies! as opposed to your buddies who changed HALACHA FOR MONEY OF A ZNUT!!!
"RaP: That's honest. Chabad are NOT pushy while Tropper is famous for being super-pushy."
rONI: THIS RABBI IS highly dishonest for arranging a fake gerus for essnan zonah!
You distorter and lfip flop! Decide: IS Tropper "puashy" or is he "reaching out to the billions"???? You are krummer drey kop!"
RaP: Tropper's style is pushy and reaching out to Billions makes him super-pushy, what's your problem?
Roni: "pushy" when he follows halacha not to accept ladies dressed like chava before the chet; all embracing when he seeks billions of conerts. The shoteh distorter boor anm hooretz in action!!
"ROni: I just hope that most chabadniks are not corrupt as this rabbi and do not feel that this is a "success" and RAP and his buddies do!"
RaP: Chabad beat Tropper at his own game. That's just a statement of fact. They are both prone to major deviousness and shtik, unfortunately.
"Roni: NOt at all! All honest rabbis are embarassed by the corruption of this rabbi! And the haters of chabad say: "you see, we knew all along, that they are only for the money!". RAP, i am not sure whether that rabbi is a bor and amhooretz; but that would be rather a compliment for otherwise i would call him (and YOU!) A monety fresser and seller of yiddishkeyt!"
RaP: Roni/Tropper cannot resist the temptation to utter these childish outbursts. There is a tinge of niceness in this post that you could build on instead of resorting to mean-spirited words that distract from the main discussion.
RaP: This shoteh thinks that has a copyeright for speaking ill of people; the differnce is that he speaks LIES OF INNOCENT PEIOPLE AND I'M TELLING THE TRUTH TO THIS FAKE AND DISHONEST PERSON IN GUISE OF "hONESTY"; HIS BUDDIES PERFORMED THE MOST IMMORAL CORRUPTION OF YIDDISHKEYT 'TOAVAT HASHEM" AS THETORAH CALLS AN ESSNAN ZONAH!
"RaP: "but take note Tropper/Roni, this itty-bitty Chabad rabbi knows 100% how to do Kiruv, even when the circumstances are not perfect,"
Roni: krumer liar and spinmaster:
No one is envious of this! And no one would call tthis "kiruv" when they give a stamp of approval for goya and declare her fraudulently jewish! And you krummer and am hooretz should really learn real "kiruv" from Troper when he does not compromise on his principples and uses all efforts to make ONLY kosher CONVERSIONS, WHEN THE CANDIDATES IN DISTANT LOCATIONS WILL KEEP SHABBAT, KOSHER AND TAHARAT HAMISHPACHA and cover their hair! This is REAL kiruv and success! not sell out of judaism!"
RaP: Many kiruv workers would argue strongly against you/Tropper on this. Tropper is known as a strict fanatic and not everyone (almost noone in Kiruv actually) agrees with his shittas.
roNI: THE SPINMASTER AND DISTORTER, HERE IS "PUSHY"AND WHEN HE CALLS FOR THE BILLIONS TO CONVERT WHAT IS HE?????
"RAP: " and don't shout about bringing in goyim when you/Tropper spend all your working hours dreaming how to recruit goyim who don't even want to come to you, ":
ROni: Actually he does not recruit goyim; he converts only kosher gerim! and he is actually successful about this! unlike your buddies who call goyim and those who live with them Baaley teshuva!!!"
RaP: This is getting to be so tiresome, as if we were in some never-ending verbal relay, but onwards we go.
rONI: yUO CNA'T TZKE THE HEAT GET OUTOF THE KITCHEN. yOU DISHONEST FAKE, ATTEMTPING TO MAKE TROPPER THE ROSHO, WHEN IN FACT HE WAS IN THIS CASE A TZADIK AND RESISTEN TO TH TMEPTATION OF essnan zonah that your friends could not resist! bomzer and lypscyc gave in to the lust of essnan zonah!!!
"you force them to come with false advertising and stupid inducements like freeby stays in posh-o hotels with sweet-talking lecturers who are naive enough to come along for the ride".
Zilch and nada! They only convert kosher gerim! their converts keep judaism, shabbat, kashrut, taharat hamishpcha and dress tzinut! unlike your goyim whom you call "baaley teshuva"!"
Rap: Love those words, "zilch" and "nada" they are so cute! Who called agoy a Baal teshuva? There are BT's dating goyim or hitched to them and even EJF talks about those Jews who have made strides in Jewish observances and wish
Roni: You did!
"
that their gentile mates could join them. The gentiles are bnever called BTs by ANYONE."
Roni": and neither those jews who live with goyas!!! at best they aree tinokos shenuiishbu; but NO BAALEY TSHUVA KERUMMER KOP!
"Aguiar and his family have since grown in their commitment to Judaism."
RaP: No understatement, he is putting his money where his mouth is big time.
Roni: Yes, he is paying ESSNAN ZONAH for thoswe who gave the label '"giyoret" to a goya!"
RaP: Now, now, watch your mouth if that is so how was paying then it was the same "ESSNAN ZONAH" for Tropper and EJF when he was giving them his millions!
rONI: SHOTERH, GO LEARN CHUMASH! ESSNAN ZONAH IS WHEN IS PAID FR THE ACTION OF ZNUT! AN AVERAH! LIKE WHEN GETTING MONEY FOR GIVING A FAKE DOCUMENT! BUT WHEN MONEY IS GIVEN TO MAKE KOSHER GERIM THAT IS NOT CALLED ESSNAN ZONAH!! GET A TUTOR TO START LEARNING CHUMASH!!
"Aguiar studies Torah regularly, and has keen interest in Chabad Chasidic texts that explore the mystical aspects of Judaism."
"RaP: Was this maybe the source for EJF's chalomes to mekarev and reach out to lost souls out there because a lot of what Tropper started doing with the establishment of EJF is absolutely out of character with Tropper's lifelong Yeshvish Litvish roots where such things, like the Chabad dreams of "tikkunim" are frowned upon".
rONI: MAYBE YES AND MAYBE NOT AND I DO NOT KNOW!
roNI: Yes, Tropper did what he claims the present rabbis do with him; the only difference is that he did not convert his goyishe wife; while they did and he repays them with all the $$$and the nice words as ESSNAN ZONAH!"
RaP: Noch amol with this "ESSNAN ZONAH" talk when Tropper got the exact same gelt from Guma and thought then that he was getting manna from heaven. What a double standard!
rONI: learn chumash and you will see that essnan zonah is given for an averah! like bomzer and lypsyc converted a goya gmurah! not for a mitzvah when they help tocovnert KOSHER GERIM!!
"ROni: Actually, this story proves how the concerns of the BaDAtz did not materialize! How T withdrew from converting the goya! And actually their letter actually proves that Bomzer's and the R. L. activiies are a great danger to Jeiwsh people as their conversions are for the most part in the form of bringing goyim to klal yisroel."
at teh end tropper resisted TO ESSNAN ZONAH MONEY!!! BOMZER AND LYPSYC SUCCUMBED TO THIS TOEVA!!.
In the two above posts poster Roni/Tropper, while constantly spouting insults, distractions, and cursing at his usual arch-villain Bomzer in red-herring fashion, yet poster Roni reveals a few more pertinent and important points in the ever unfolding Tropper-EJF-Kaplan-Guma saga but for the those who may be following the trail of the drawn out debate with Roni/Tropper, the important information coming from him may be getting lost in the verbal shuffle and jousting and his mindless and repetative tit-for-tat, so while trying to avoid his previously stated points, the more important newer points are discussed below starting with "RaP":
ReplyDelete"Roni: why should he? He is nto bomze who receives essnan zonah services! He got the money for services the organization makes to oother jews."
RaP: Here Roni/Tropper denies any comparison between the tens of millions of dollars Guma gave to Tropper/EJF/Kol Yaakov/Horizons, to the subsequent relatively smaller payment Guma is alleged to have paid Bomzer for converting Guma's wife Jamie. Roni/Tropper claims that it's ok and ethical for Tropper and EJF to have gotten and keep the money they got from Guma in the past because Tropper: "He got the money for services the organization makes to oother jews." Hmm, is this true? When a rabbi has a falling out with a disciple why would he want to keep the money if that disciple went on to do what that rabbi considers to be the worst possible sin on Earth, getting a more lenient conversion from a nemesis? And what of "services..to.. oother jews" when those so-called "services" of mass prosletyzation are the core of a huge controversy in the Torah world and when it is EJF that embarked on something that had never been done before, proselytizing in huge numbers not to simple ordinary "oother jews" but to Jews hitched to gentiles and who now wish to obtain kosher conversions for their gentile spouses, the very thing that the wife of the benefactor who gave the money in the first place refused to do and that brought about a huge split in the organization and a massive Chillul Hashem that is now arising like a toxic mushroom cloud over EJF and anyone who has been tainted by its "filthy lucre".
"RAP:" What happened to all the money that Guma gave to Tropper, did Guma ever ask this or did he just let Tropper off the hook, even tho now you/Tropper attack him in the most vile and scandalous ways."
Roni: have no idea!"
RaP: Wow! poster Roni/Tropper says "have no idea" what happened to all the money, in the tens of millions, that over the years, at least since Tuesday, October 22, 2002, when Guma Aguiar and Ellen Aguiar incorporated the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation in Florida at least SIX YEARS AGO ??? when during that time tens of millions have flowed from Guma to EJF, Tropper's Kol Yaakov yeshiva and the Horizons outreach projects many of which got renamed to the "Lillian Jean Kaplan" name and more that went to many other mosdos. Just for the sake of objectivity (I will not use the word "fairness" for that will trigger a tirade from Roni/Tropper) but doesn't it make sense that at this time that Guma has split with his uncle Tom and that now it comes to light that poster Roni/Tropper in the name of Rabbi Tropper is so bitterly denouncing Guma and Jamie as traitors to their cause, that they should give an accounting of just how much they took from Guma and the Kaplan Foundation he ran and is still running and is now under a huge legal cloud. It's called "an accounting" both in monetary terms and in teshuva terms!! After all, these were Torah causes that were sponsored here and perhaps it was all tainted by Guma and his Christian missionary backround from the start and not just from the recent past now that he has left Tropper and gone on to his greener pastures in Israel.
"Roni: what are you smoking? Guma wanted EJF to covnert; he threatened styoping giving money. He stoped giving money. Troper did not cave in as your bomzer and lypsc."
RaP: He we learn some behind the scenes troubles at EJF that were never revealed to the public or to the many hundreds of rabbis attending EJF events, until now when Guma and Kaplan have split-up and Kaplan is taking Guma to court in the USA while Guma has moved to Israel and is supporting efforts to bring "100,000" people via Nefesh BeNefesh, Jews and wanabe Jews alike, to Israel. Roni/Tropper can't resist always throwing in the red-herring excuse of last resort, that when you can't justify yourself, blame it on another party and the louder you shout it maybe more people will start to believe your wishful version when it is Tropper that bears the responsiblity and needs to come up with the apologies and the answers and not just cry "wha-wha Bomzer hit me" like a two year old (unfortunately his true emotional age many times judging from his immaturity and bad behavior!)
"RAP: don't you think that they should have been warned that there was a potential scandal in the backround maybe that could come out as it has now. They were tricked and betrayed by Tropper, plain and simple."
ROni: shoteh, they probably were. He probably consulted them all the way how to proceed."
RaP: Look how he uses the words "probably" twice here as if he were some sort of lawyer parsing his words and peppering them with "plausible deniability" in true Obamian and Clintonite style. He calls one a "shoteh" for even asking the question if the rabbis attending EJF events were informed that there was a scandal brewing, and all he can back that up with if expressing a non-definite thing twice gives it any more strength. The honest thing to do in this case is to say, sorry EJF blew it and pardon us for any inconvenience or embarrassment this has caused you, we express our humblest apologies. But instead, in true lawyerly fashion we are yelled at as being "shottehs" and told to "shut up" and that Tropper is still the biggest tsadik on Earth even after he has screwed up big time by failing to fully MEKAREV GUMA after years of trying and failing to MEGAYER Jamie, Guma's wife, by EJF's own standards also after years of trying, without excuses, with name calling and blaming the devil Bomzer who came along later for doing what he always does, perform lenient conversions. In a democracy like America with religious freedom gauranteed in the US Constititution, that's just the way it is, and if one does not like that, then you have the freedom to go elsewhere. That is the greatness of the American system and it protects EVERYONE's religious rights no matter how lenient or extreme. Dina Demalchusa Dina. You may not agree with what Bomzer does, but that does not grant you the right to hunt him down like an animal and to call him the vilest of names. You hate something, fine, stay away from it and follow your own path. America is not a theocracy. In Israel the Chief Rabbinate has powers, as it should, but those powers are limited outside Israel's borders and can only be followed voluntarily, as we see when Rabbi Tropper himself chooses to ignore another rabbinate based in Israel, the BADATS of the Eidah HaChareidis.
"If Tropper knew all this why didn't he and Kaplan scream earlier to warn rabbonim that they are receiving gelt with the taint of Chabad manipulation to it (as they would see it)?"
He warned Bomzer and other rabbis not to covnert that lady as she was not ready but the smell of the green $$$ was more persuasive!"
RaP: The above is disingenuous, you/Tropper were asked why all the rabbis who came to EJF concerts and who got gelt from the Kaplan Foundation weren't warned and, right here, you twist that, and you say that it was "Bomzer and other rabbis" who were told not to convert the lady,"
Roni: why not shoteh, whhy not mention the sequenceo f events to show that tropper is honest adn bomzert A DISHONEST CROOK! AND BOMZER'S DISHONESTY SHOWS EVEN MORE TROPPER'S HONESTY AT THIS POINT!"
RaP: Wow! what a neat trick. Tropper is working on Guma and Jamie for about FIVE years and Bomzer was not even in sight. At some point in the Tropper-Guma relationship about SIX years after they were so tightly bound, Guma and Tropper split-up, and Guma supposedly goes to Bomzeer for a conversion for his wife Jamie. That is a "story"? It's not even a good sentence? Even Hashem put a whole book of Sefer Bereishis as a hakdoma and context with many stories and narratives for the real story of Bnai Yisroel which starts in the next book of Sefer Shemos. What happened during all the good times between Tropper and Guma?, but it's a complicated and greedy story because even though Tropper was milking Guma for his tens of millions of dollars, and making fancy PR for himself, he was HIDING the fact from the choshuve oilem, whom Tropper himself was turning into a goilem, by keeping them in the dark about the big LIE that EJF was a hyocritical organization because at the very moment it was preaching and doing PR for the world's intermarrieds to join it and for the world's rabbonim to approve it, at the very top of it sat a man like Guma (himself with a non-Jewish father) who was married to a gentile who refused to get an EJF-style conversion. This is grand hypocrisy at work that has never been explained and how they had the chutzpa (a la Obama's "Audacity of Hope" style) to do it at all?
"rap:"but that was already later and who cares what they said to Bomzer why would he listen to Tropper who hates him "
rONI: SHOTEH, ANYONE WHO CARES for halacha WOULDLISTEN TO WARNINGS THAT THIS LADY IS NOT INTERESTED TO SHOMER SHABBOS,"
RaP: Again, what happened at the end is mixed up with the begining years when Bomzer had nothing to do with either Guma or EJF. The question is why weren't the rabbis attending EJF conferences given explicit warnings about the immoral double-standards at the top, that exceptions like "Papal dispensations" were being made for Guma because, nebech, after all, he was writing the checks, and he who pays the piper calls the tune! Notice how poster Roni/Tropper twists and turns to avoid this issue by always sticking in his "Bomzer is the reason Tropper does anything wrong" -- wish that could work in real life, don't you Roni/Tropper?
"RAP: " but the question is why weren't the rabbonim who attended the EJF concerts told that the EJF lay Co-Chairman was married to a shiksa and she was refusing to convert? Do you see that question now?"
rONI: DO NOT KNOW, BUT imagine that he connsulted with rabbis and told them that this person would like to convert his wife. MAybe they initially tried to see if she would be willing. MAybe she also wanted to see if she would be willing.... They probably consented thinking that she would commit to torah. That did not happen...
RaP: Hmm, from this response it seems even more clear that poster Roni is an attorney or is acting like one. When asked a direct question, like why weren't rabbonim attending EJF events told that the big macher's wife herself, the big cheese, Guma the Golem who was writing the checks and underwriting all their free flights and stays in the hotels, was the biggest s'tira to the EJF cockamamy idea and why it would never work and is a hypocrite himself. So poster Roni, says things like: "DO NOT KNOW", and "imagine that he connsulted with rabbis" or "MAybe they initially tried to see if she would be willing." Or "MAybe she also wanted to see if she would be willing.... They probably consented thinking that she would commit to torah." -- Funny how usually poster Roni/Tropper knows everything, he is 100% sure that Rav Chaim Ozer Grodzinsky would agree with him if he could go visit him in his Vilna office right now, or that if Rav Moshe Feinstein underwent techias hameisim today he would give the thumbs up to Tropper's rationalizations of mass proselytization, Roni is even 1,000% positive that the BADATS never even rebuked Rabbi Tropper and warned all God-fearing rabbis to saty from EJF events, and of course poster Roni knows other poster's true worth and how they do or don't measure up to his illustrious cock-sure knowledge of Torah, but when it comes to asubject he SHOULD know about, the very Guma and Tropper and EJF he is here to defend and protect yet, like a pathetic two-bit lawyer he comes up with the lame old mealy-mouthed ambivelant words, all in a long sentence yet, like "DO NOT KNOW" and "imagine" and "probably" "MAybe" (used twice). But he hints, as usual that he knows a lot, like when he says this fascinating thing: "MAybe she also wanted to see if she would be willing" -- now what is that hinting at and what is it supposed to mean? because it is THE CENTRAL PIECE here, since her refusal to go along with Rabbi Tropper for an EJF-style conversion is what led to the subsequent storm we are seeing right now, and thus it is deserving of much greater closer scrutiny.
"Wasn't Tropper supicious of any possible negative and harmfull Christian influence for Guma's motivation to help push and fund EJF on such a global scale?"
ROni : no idea..And maybe tropper thought that he seriosly wanted to discover and live jewishly....
RaP: Agaisn some key information that is being glossed over. As is now being made very clear by Guma himself, he was excellently schooled in Christian beliefs and dogmas and in all the best Chistian missionary texts and methods. Seems Tropper fell victim to his own hubris yet again by assuming that he could crack the Guma nut, but in the end it seems Guma got the better of Tropper in the sense that Tropper failed in his key mission, to make a 100% BT out of Guma. Maybe this was a job better handled by the anti-missionary de-programmer himself Rabbi Tovia Singer, that Guma now says had an effect on him but that poster Roni/Tropper below poo-poos, and maybe the point is that Tropper was afraid if Guma fell under Tovia's full influence (Tovia has his own version of a highly charismatic personality and there is nothing he doesn't know about Christianity) the Kaplan Foundation millions would flow to Tovia's Outreach Judaism anti-missionary organization, so Tropper hugged Guma closer but in the mean time Jamie, Guma's wife wasn't buying it and it was only a matter of time that Jamie would put her foot down it seems and tell Tropper to go fly a kite and then they went shopping to Bomzer's and Chabad's store of lenient conversions goodies with all their dough (ya know, rich folks alays shop till they drop.) This saga should be called "The un-making of a Kiruv rabbi: How Rabbi Tropper missed his greatest chance at Kiruv and Geirus and fooled & lured a thousand rabbis with EJF events into thinking they were fighting bad conversions."
"ROni: shoteh that today he does not credit Tropper for anything, you prove that he did not have anything to do with his discovery??? look in the websites and you wll see him being particiaping in Hachnosasas sefre torah at kol yaakov in 2004. CErtainly tropper had something to do with hiss reconnection with yiddishkeyt. he did not know at time chabad. Nothing in the sites bring him back more than tweo years ago when the essnan zonah performed..."
RaP: Important admissions flow here: That Rabbi Tropper was THE main KIRUV rabbi working on Guma from the start; That for years Guma had no idea about Chabad; That Guma must be very angry with Tropper, not just for not converting Jamie because life is never that one-dimensional or simplistic, but there must have been other deeper factors that were strong undercurrents of discontent all along and that broke out in full-force later over the failed attempts to convert Jamie via EJF; And there is another serious question, why, besides all the DOLLAR SIGNS that this would reap, was Tropper in HOT pursuit of a gentile lady to get her to convert??? Isn't that against everything proper in Halacha when it comes to conversions? By what new "Papal dispensation" did Tropper reverse the correct order of a kosher conversion process and procedure, that the rabbis don't go hunting and begging gentiles to become converts, but rather, they push them away to take their time and can wait forever. Instead of being angry at himself and cursing out Bomzer for his own problems, Tropper should be happy that the lady walked off and just leave it at that without calling anyone names in vindictive fashion. Get this, Jamie was NEVER going to convert the EJF Tropper way, even if Bomzer and million like him did not exist. The lady has her own agenda, and is the wife of the Guma Golem and we can see that it's going to be pretty scary to learn about this new "Mrs. Messiah" (a la Michelle Obama style.)
"RaP: No that was not the issue I was raising it was how can one take huge amounts of money from people who are still rooted in missionary Christianity?
Roni: What a shtuss vehevel! How did R Lypscyc take money from such a root? How did bomzer take m oney from such person?????
As long as he was not influenced by guma and he was NOT , as he refused to obey to his requests, bedieved there is no problem!"
RaP: Notice how poster Roni/Tropper always has the excuse handy of a bogey-man red-herring style. The question is about Tropper, but Roni doesn't answer that but atomatically flips to his red-herring button and accuses Bomzer and the Chabad rabbi of doing no different. But the subject of this thread and discussion is Tropper and how for years he could take tens of millions of dollars from people like Guma and Jamie who were still strongly rooted in Christian evangelism, not even half baked BTs because Jamie wasn't converted so she was still pssibly a practicing Christian and Guma wasn't far behind, and at that very moment they were founding, funding and leading EJF with some of the frummest rabbonim in the world left clueless coming to EJF events while Guma, whose father was a Christain and his mother a meshumedes for most of their lives, and whose wife Jamie refused to convert, yet still and all, they were writing the checks and part of the "EJF think tank" for the big rabbis and for the EJF events to "build up Halacha" -- and for asking these very serious questions, the best that poster Roni/Tropper can do is shout "shotte and liar etc" like a two year old brat with no manners. Shame on you.
"ROni: again probably many rabbonim at the top did know of the situation and they probably instructed him all the way. And tropper did not fafall the trap that you buddies did by succumbing to the $$$of essnan zonah that bomzer and lypcsc did!"
RaP: Significantly, poster Roni/Tropper alleges that "many rabbonim" knew about the contradictions in Guma''s life. Could you name them please? How many? Two? Ten? A hundred? All of them? None of them? Which only raises questions, if they indeed knew that Guma's wife was a gentile who refused getting an EJF-style conversion, what kind of two-faced and hypocritical rabbonim are these that they will hide the fact that a safek-Christian meshumad like Guma married to an outright shiksa who refuses a proper EJF-type conversions are heading up the Kapalan Foundation and dishing out the tens of millions of dollars to the rabbonim themselves? This is like discovering that instead of the holy keruvim on the aron in the kodesh hakadoshim in the Mishkon or the Bais HaMikdosh, that on top of the aron there was ch"v a cute little statue of Jesus on one side and of his mother Mary on the other side! Can you imagine what blood-curdling howls from the Jewish people there would be if such an abomination was discovered? Well, of course there would be people who would come up with excuses that it was "not really" a picture of Jesus and that was "not actually" Mary's face, and that the two of them weren't doing anything illegal, it's just two retroactive "prototypes" for the keruvim themselves, or that it was put there by others (like Bomzer, who was actually Judas Iscariot and the Devil himself who was spotted in the area later) who wanted to pasel the mishkon from within, and so on and so forth. This is how your/Tropper's very lame excuses look like, huge jokes and not even up to being parodies or reality, what you would call bobba-meises, about Guma and Jamie are sounding like now.
"RaP: Hmm, now Bomzer is guilty for the original sin in Gan Eden as well? This is so weird talking to a zombie who cannot get Bomzer out of his rigid tightly wound box.
RONi: Yes, he is guilty for covneting shikssahs who are not the least of dass moshe !!!"
RaP: Roni/Tropper cannot let go of his irrational hate of Bomzer whom he has turned into a mile-high near sky-high ogre. There is an expression in the 12 step recovery programs; "Let go, and let God" and Roni/Tropper have yet to learn it!
"Roni: Actually the turth is that he tried to bring them closer to yiddishkeyt; it is those fake rabbis who distanced him from real yiddishkeyt when they gave a stamp of approval that he can live with a goya and declaring her jewess! and "baaley teshuva"!."
RaP: Poster Roni takes a tiny step forward but then, as if weighed down by his iron leg-iron sinks back to his standard self-defenses that Tropper was doing great stuff but Bomzer ruined it all, instead of admitting that Tropper tried his best, he failed, and he was abandoned as a failure (at best) and as a tyrant and most probably for lack of tact and for lack of decency and civility and thus to the victor belong the spoils, Guma and Jamie went shopping, and hey, surprise, suprise, they found a rabbi who would be willing to convert Jamie and mary them. That a Chabad Rabbi got in on the act is also no great surprise either, they are hungry for money for themselves and their projects and will often sell their souls for that too, no big suprise there either. The Chabad rabbi will say he is using the money to build a Jewish Day School and a Mikva etc, so it's all for kodesh as far as he sees it. The really big surprise is that Roni/Tropper thinks that the world will buy into his whining and yelping at Bomzer and the Chabad rabbi who beat him at his own game, and that Tropper's constant harrassment of Bomzer (it's surprising Bomzer hasn't gotten a police order of cease and desist against Tropper yet) is not connected to Tropper's own failure to complete the pitch to Guma in the first place and MEKAREV him 100% and make sure that Jamie got a 100% kosher EJF-style conversion to boot. Neither happened. Exit Guma and Jamie from Tropper sphere of influence. Enter Bomzer and Chabad rabbi. Tropper and Kaplan revealed as tricksters, cover-up artists and hypocrites. Bedtime and curtains for Bonzo and EJF. Tropper will be lucky he comes out with an ounce of credibility once this entire shrekliche maise works its way through all the rabbis that used to come to EJF events.
"Not based on the fact on the ground! The facts on the ground have proven that his influence did not carry weight to twist torpper and the rabbis arms to perform the essnan zonah act that bomzer and lypscyc did!"
RaP: Poster Roni persists in talking about what happened in the end and skips all the introductory and middle chapters. Oh, and is that all that was going on behind the scenes between Guma and Tropper/EJF? How about the PR-hyped agenda of EJF, who was working on that? Based on some of the silly infomercials coming out of EJF during all this time it seems that Guma was still running a big part of the EJF show, even though supposedly he was bargaining with some rabbis (WHO ARE THEY by the way, was Rav Eisenstein a party to this conspiracy of silence?) about getting a a good conversion for Jamie. If anything it looks clear that it was Tropper who was twisting Guma's and Jamie's arms to get her the conversion she hated and that would make Tropper happy, but in the end she told him to get lost. Such is life. You win some and you lose some, and you lose more women if you are a misogynyst.
"RaP: Ok, thanks for that, but it then only magnifies the question why the EJF rabbis like Tropper continued to take Guma's money and even why they did not return it to him once they went their ways and Tropper started cursing Guma and his wife?
Roni: not at all! As he did not play the role of deciding halachik shayloss and deciding thalachik policies! as opposed to your buddies who changed HALACHA FOR MONEY OF A ZNUT!!!"
RaP: Poster Roni says something interesting here in his devious way. He is in effect admitting that Rabbi Tropper and EJF had no conscience in taking Guma's money even though they knew full well that they were legitmizing Guma's double life! This is covered up by some false humility about "not making up Halacha" meaning they were permitted to take Guma's money "by Halacha (so naturally one would not question that, right?) but now hear this, the reason it was ok to take tens of millions from the Guma religious double-agent with the non-Jewish wife, is because one day, at that point it was in the future and not known to any of the parties, a big bad wolf would come on the scene by the name of Bomzer and he would take a bit less money for doing a lenient conversion which Tropper calls "against the Halacha" so that because Bomzer went against "Tropper's Halacha" it is NOW, as we argue, retroactively permissible for Tropper and EJF to have accepted tens of millions of dollars because at that point "Tropper was NOT deciding the Halacha" and so at that time Tropper was permitted to take Guma's money and not be ashamed now, while Bomzer needs to be ashamed now because he took Guma's money a few years later. If this sounds convoluted and contrivedly pilpulistic folks, that's exactly what it is, and there is name for this kind of chicanery, it's called casuistry. Pure false logic incarnate.
"RaP: That's honest. Chabad are NOT pushy while Tropper is famous for being super-pushy."
rONI: THIS RABBI IS highly dishonest for arranging a fake gerus for essnan zonah!
RaP: Hand it to Poster Roni/Tropper that in this entire dialogue he reists attacking Chabad the way he attacks Rabbi Bomzer. Even a single Chabad rabbi crossing Tropper big time, like this Chabad rabbi did, it does not get the full court press attacks that Tropper is notorious for. And for good reason. Tropper is a skilled street-slugger. His way of fighting is in dark alleys and by dirty tricks. He won't fight Chabad out in the open. They are an army and they could crush him if he is seen as picking on one of thier trusted and appointed soldiers and being roidef one of them. Tropper will not fight the YU army full frontal either, even when Rabbi Nochum Eisenstein does that at an EJF conventions throwing it into mayhem as he attacks Modern Orthodox beliefs about the age of the Earth, Tropper runs backwards to make nicey-nicey with the YU and RCA rabbis. Like a lone predator hunting his prey he sniffs out and seek softer targets that he can attack individually and polish them off. That is the way he attacked Rabbi Slifkin and that is the way he is hunting Rabbi Bomzer and now this is the way he is "hunting" what he mistakenly imagines is a lone poster on this blog, but the more he hunts the more he gets bitten back and digs deeper holes for himself as he gets hit from more sides as he lengthens his posts with boorish outbursts and immature cursing, in the hope that the owner of the blog will not notice or that the other poster/s will tire of his inane childish screams of frustration. Tropper fights like the scum of the Earth. He has no moral core. He is the worst kind of religious Jew a learned one who is amoral and even immoral, a talmid chochem shoitteh. Like a sociopath and psychopath he pursues victims in "Boston Strangler" style revealing a deep hatred of women and in the case of Guma and Guma's wife Jamie, it was the core of the problem. Tropper imagines that the act of overpowering woman by charisma means he is enchanting them, but it is a false bravura, because it is nothing short of the equivalant of rape, and while some women might submit to that kind of thing, most will fight back and will win as they drag you down, which is what Jamie is doing to Tropper right now, she alone, yes that one shiksa Jamie, is bringing down the whole fake EJF juggernaught with her little pinky and there is zilch, zero, nada gornisht that Tropper can do about this, as the world watches to his eternal humiliation and shame, while Jamie and Guma the Golem, having made aliya, sit in Jerusalem eating bon-bons have the last laugh. And yet, all poster Roni/Tropper can do is scream insults and blame all the faults of the universe on a lone Rabbi named Bomzer as if he and he alone is the root of all evil worthy of the devil incarnate. How pathetic all this is!
"Roni: "pushy" when he follows halacha not to accept ladies dressed like chava before the chet; all embracing when he seeks billions of conerts. The shoteh distorter boor anm hooretz in action!!"
RaP: Pardon me, but is poster Roni/Tropper actually admitting that Tropper DOES have delusions to be "all embracing when he seeks billions of conerts"??? And at the same time, the "rationale" is that it's justified by trying to tyranically impose ("pushy") Jewish observance on others??? This is not Judaism, it is madness.
"RaP: This shoteh thinks that has a copyeright for speaking ill of people; the differnce is that he speaks LIES OF INNOCENT PEIOPLE AND I'M TELLING THE TRUTH TO THIS FAKE AND DISHONEST PERSON IN GUISE OF "hONESTY"; HIS BUDDIES PERFORMED THE MOST IMMORAL CORRUPTION OF YIDDISHKEYT 'TOAVAT HASHEM" AS THETORAH CALLS AN ESSNAN ZONAH!"
RaP: Tropper has long proven that he aspires to have the monopoly on chutzpa and pursuing the wrong goals. He is not humble. he is not happy to be a quiet rosh yeshiva in Monsey. Too boring. He has to turn himself into a hated and hateful inquisitor always on the hunt and prowl for ever-new prey. A vampire on the loose, and like Dracula he is scary and powerful with minions of followers. The money Guma gave him has gone to his head and now that Guma has wihdrawn his money Tropper teeters and stumbles and screams and yelps out into cyberspace at his imagined enemies that he can do no wrong, he is infallibale, he is all-mighty, he is the one who has the monopoly of truth, ony he knows how to learn and interpret Rav Moshe Feinstein and Rav Chaim Ozer Grodzinsky the "right way" and all other are "shottes" -- he is a baal ga'avah with an agenda and monster who thinks he is an angel. All are warned, as did the BADATS and Rav Moshe Shternbuch, to stay as far they can away from the Tropper/EJF calamity-machine as the world can see with the revelation of who was running the show and giving the gelt to Tropper and EJF: Guma the Golem and Jamie the gentile while uncle Tom was fiddling, EJF and the Kaplan Foundation were burning.
"RaP: "but take note Tropper/Roni, this itty-bitty Chabad rabbi knows 100% how to do Kiruv, even when the circumstances are not perfect,"
Roni: krumer liar and spinmaster:
No one is envious of this! And no one would call tthis "kiruv" when they give a stamp of approval for goya and declare her fraudulently jewish! And you krummer and am hooretz should really learn real "kiruv" from Troper when he does not compromise on his principples and uses all efforts to make ONLY kosher CONVERSIONS, WHEN THE CANDIDATES IN DISTANT LOCATIONS WILL KEEP SHABBAT, KOSHER AND TAHARAT HAMISHPACHA and cover their hair! This is REAL kiruv and success! not sell out of judaism!"
RaP: A swipe at Chabad, still not a bloodthirsty attack though, as Roni/Tropper does not want the minions of Chabad venting their spleen at him right now. Also curiously, poster Roni/Tropper is alleging here that Tropper has the monopoly on "correct" kiruv and naturally, only Tropper knows how do do Kiruv the right way, but also mixing in conversions, in Tropper's present universe, Geirus and Kiruv merge into one mish-mash.
"RaP: Many kiruv workers would argue strongly against you/Tropper on this. Tropper is known as a strict fanatic and not everyone (almost noone in Kiruv actually) agrees with his shittas.
roNI: THE SPINMASTER AND DISTORTER, HERE IS "PUSHY"AND WHEN HE CALLS FOR THE BILLIONS TO CONVERT WHAT IS HE?????"
RaP: For some reason poster Roni likes to taunt with the idea that an EJF infomercial put forth that since there are a few billion people on this Earth who may have "Jewish ancestry" from way back when, that EJF is opening its arms to them. At times poster Roni/Tropper uses it as self-compliment and at other times he scoffs at it. At any rate, the ad is online for the world to read it at Basics of the Jewish Faith: "While nearly one third of the population of the world is considered Jewish or has Jewish ancestry, Judaism is a religion not understood very well by those who don't practice in the modern world. Sure, we know about Hanukkah and Passover, but what are the basic foundations of this worldwide faith...If you have questions or need further clarification on the Jewish faith or conversion, contact a support group near you...About the Author :- Eternal Jewish Family (http://eternaljewishfamily.blogspot.com) offers information on Jewish conversion. Art Gib is a freelance writer."
"RAP: " and don't shout about bringing in goyim when you/Tropper spend all your working hours dreaming how to recruit goyim who don't even want to come to you, ":
ROni: Actually he does not recruit goyim; he converts only kosher gerim! and he is actually successful about this! unlike your buddies who call goyim and those who live with them Baaley teshuva!!!"
RaP: Notice how poster Roni/Tropper plays word games at his fiendish leisure and swings away from topics, never sticks with the point and even denies the truth. He denies that EJF and Tropper "recruit goyim" when there are dozens of articles and press releases that EJF itself has put out for the express purpose of recruiting gentiles.
"RaP: This is getting to be so tiresome, as if we were in some never-ending verbal relay, but onwards we go.
rONI: yUO CNA'T TZKE THE HEAT GET OUTOF THE KITCHEN. yOU DISHONEST FAKE, ATTEMTPING TO MAKE TROPPER THE ROSHO, WHEN IN FACT HE WAS IN THIS CASE A TZADIK AND RESISTEN TO TH TMEPTATION OF essnan zonah that your friends could not resist! bomzer and lypscyc gave in to the lust of essnan zonah!!!"
RaP: One is not even allowed to sigh in the duel to the finish, even though Tropper's and EJF's pants have been pulled down to the ground with the shocking revelation that Guma (himself the son of a Christian father and a product of strict Christian Evangelistic upbringing), still the Co-Chairman of EJF and the Kaplan Foundation, was all the time married to a gentile woman who refused point blank to get a conversion via the very EJF her husband headed up all the while EJF was selling a new gospel of converting to Judaism gentiles hitched to Jews and covering it with calls for higher standrds in Orthodox conversions which all Haredi rabbis adhere to already and which is almost impossible to enforce among all Modern Orthodox rabbis. This is a huge scandal, yet poster Roni/Tropper prefers to make fake shouts at people who disagree with his one-dimensional view of the world, as if he were enforcing Jewish law as a branch of the Taliban, when noone asked him to act at a Haredi Torqumada that causes alienation and a Chillul Hashem wherever he goes.
"Zilch and nada! They only convert kosher gerim! their converts keep judaism, shabbat, kashrut, taharat hamishpcha and dress tzinut! unlike your goyim whom you call "baaley teshuva"!"
RaP: Poster Roni/Tropper loves the words "zilch and nada" like an emotional outburst from a two year old who cannot be reasoned with. To him there is only the my-way-or-the-highway type of Judaism and a straightjacket at that. He adds a false accusation when nobody is calling gentiles BTs, when it is ONLY the Jewish partners who are in the process of becoming BTs, yet are in relationships with gentiles. This is something all kiruv workers have to deal with. Becoming a BT is a continuum of development over many years, it is not an off-on button that is flipped or a total overnight submission to an egomaniac like Tropper who browbeats and pummels people he wishes to crush into submission, not a Jewish way at all in anything.
"that their gentile mates could join them. The gentiles are bnever called BTs by ANYONE."
Roni": and neither those jews who live with goyas!!! at best they aree tinokos shenuiishbu; but NO BAALEY TSHUVA KERUMMER KOP!"
RaP: Here poster Roni/Tropper revelas Tropper's absolutist excuse for a derech in how he views a BT. To him it's a person who has been totally broken and house trained like a submissive pet doing its master's (his) bidding only. But noone really goes by this approach because becoming and being a BT is like a work of art in motion. It is a process that's based on human development. It is an incremental process that takes time, and each step is a step in the process of teshuva. Of course, the process is not complete till the person can be fully observant and leading a totally Halachic life. But that is the end result and the road there is not to be negated. Many people who start on this road are either the products of intermarriages or are dating or even married to gentiles. There is not one way to reach out to and succeed with all these types of people, but each one should be given credit and boosted when they are making the efforts every so slowly to rise from their former less-observant ways and rise to become more observant, and when they are in this process they are in effect to one degree or another BTs, if poster Roni/Tropper can't live with that, let them choke on what I have just stated.
"Aguiar and his family have since grown in their commitment to Judaism."
RaP: No understatement, he is putting his money where his mouth is big time.
Roni: Yes, he is paying ESSNAN ZONAH for thoswe who gave the label '"giyoret" to a goya!"
RaP: Note how shameless poster Roni/Tropper remains, for years they were on Guma's payroll as he doled out tens of millions of dollars and it was kosher and a-ok, as long as they could come up with excuses that Guma's wife was still in the process of making up her mind if she wanted an EJF conversion, notice also how poster Roni/Tropper allows himself the "Papal dispensation" of Jamie being given all the time in the world to think things over making her husband Guma's double-cross of the EJF mandate legitimate, but poster Roni/Tropper denies that same courtesy to other such people, because hey, after all, he's not getting millions from them, so why shousld he be nice to them and give them leniencies and special "Papal dispensations" like he gave to Jamie for a few years, till she had enough and went to see another (probably friendlier that Tropper) Chabad rabbi in Florida.
"RaP: Now, now, watch your mouth if that is so how was paying then it was the same "ESSNAN ZONAH" for Tropper and EJF when he was giving them his millions!
rONI: SHOTERH, GO LEARN CHUMASH! ESSNAN ZONAH IS WHEN IS PAID FR THE ACTION OF ZNUT! AN AVERAH! LIKE WHEN GETTING MONEY FOR GIVING A FAKE DOCUMENT! BUT WHEN MONEY IS GIVEN TO MAKE KOSHER GERIM THAT IS NOT CALLED ESSNAN ZONAH!! GET A TUTOR TO START LEARNING CHUMASH!!"
RaP: To somehow "prove" that he is smart, and to suit him as he twists and turns, poster Roni/Tropper swings from a technical term in the Torah itself relating to forbidden donations to the Bais HaMikdosh ( לֹא-תָבִיא אֶתְנַן זוֹנָה וּמְחִיר כֶּלֶב, בֵּית יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ--לְכָל-נֶדֶר: ) and slyly refers it back to a more colloquel usage. But why is he getting so angry? Take a look at what he didn't like and sent him into his paroxism of insults, it's worth repeating again: How was paying then it was the same "ESSNAN ZONAH" for Tropper and EJF when he was giving them his millions!
"Aguiar studies Torah regularly, and has keen interest in Chabad Chasidic texts that explore the mystical aspects of Judaism."
"RaP: Was this maybe the source for EJF's chalomes to mekarev and reach out to lost souls out there because a lot of what Tropper started doing with the establishment of EJF is absolutely out of character with Tropper's lifelong Yeshvish Litvish roots where such things, like the Chabad dreams of "tikkunim" are frowned upon".
rONI: MAYBE YES AND MAYBE NOT AND I DO NOT KNOW!"
RaP: This last response of Roni's/Tropper's is one of the most refreshing, but the fact that he says he does not know does not mean that he truly does not know and having "stumped" him after a fashion, the question is worthy of repeating for more thought: "Aguiar studies Torah regularly, and has keen interest in Chabad Chasidic texts that explore the mystical aspects of Judaism."
"RaP: Was this maybe the source for EJF's chalomes to mekarev and reach out to lost souls out there because a lot of what Tropper started doing with the establishment of EJF is absolutely out of character with Tropper's lifelong Yeshvish Litvish roots where such things, like the Chabad dreams of "tikkunim" are frowned upon".
"rONI: learn chumash and you will see that essnan zonah is given for an averah! like bomzer and lypsyc converted a goya gmurah! not for a mitzvah when they help tocovnert KOSHER GERIM!!"
RaP: Of course Roni/Tropper persists in his diabolically twisted way of justifying the taking of money from Guma for years since it was a "mitzva" -- but who say it's a "mitzva" for Jews to proselytize like Christians? Who says it's a mitzva to ignore the BADATS and Rav Moshe Shternbuch? Who says it's a "mitzva" to reach out to goyim hitched to Jews without any modern written Haskoma but relying on nebulous and ambbivelent sources from poskim who are not here to be makpid on their koved, that they never had in mind to allow mass geirim into Klal Yisroel like EJF and Tropper wanted? Who says it's a "mitzva" to take money from former Christian missionaries who may still have strong ties to the evangelicals? Who says it's a "mitzva" to appoint as Co-Chairman of a supposedly Torah organization a man who, aside from his father being a Christin until very recently and maybe still is, is also married to a gentile woman who refuses to convert properly and who he refuses to divorce and continues to have children with her? Who says it is a "mitzva" to take tens of millions of dollars from such a man as Guma, and wait for his wife to make up her mind if she wants to convert properly, and not tell hundreds of rabbis including some of the most importnat Haredi leaders of the age? And so on and so forth. But Roni will just keep to his mantra that all is allowed in "Before-Bomzer" but if it's acse of "Post-Bomzer" then forget it, Roni/Tropper goes nuts.
"at teh end tropper resisted TO ESSNAN ZONAH MONEY!!! BOMZER AND LYPSYC SUCCUMBED TO THIS TOEVA!!."
RaP: More of the same, down to the bitter end. I must have been talking to a robot!
Important post at Guma Aguiar of EJF - raised as Christian (January 29, 2009):
ReplyDeleteA PUBLIC CALL TO RABBI TROPPER TO OPENLY AND PUBLICLY RENOUNCE GUMA AND JAMIE AND TO OPENLY AND PUBLICLY DO TESHUVA FOR HIS FAILURE WITH THEM THAT HAS NOW BROUGHT ABOUT A CALAMITY ON ISRAEL AND KLAL YISRAEL AS GUMA LAUNCHES A NEW SELF-AGGRANDIZING CAREER BASED ON THE EJF MODEL HE HAD LEARNED FROM HIS UNCLE TOM KAPLAN AND RABBI TROPPER AS THEIR MUTUAL RABBI!
Roni says: "2) tropper did not convert her, DESPITE LOSING HIS MONEY!"
Does that mean that now that Tropper has gotten burned big time, that Tropper has learned his lesson and will finally cease and desist TOTALLY from continuing with EJF's cockamamy scheme to try to lure and convert the gentile spouses of Jews hitched to non-Jews?
Guma and his wife Jamie going down in flames so spectularly, now in the open, according to Roni/Tropper's own account, should be an abject lesson of how NOT to do kiruv and of how NOT to try to solve intermarriage situations, and how NOT to haughtily rely on one's own powers of persuasion or position as spiritual leader in any way.
The world awaits to know if anything will be heard, and Rabbi Tropper owes it to Klal Yisroel that NEVER AGAIN will he tamper with trying, through conventions, hotel retreats, advertising, publci meetinsg or any type of recruitment and luring that amounts to forbidden proselytizing, to in any way attempt to convert the goyishe spouses of his disciples or those that seek him out, that can and must only lead to greater numbers of the Guma-Jamie type fiascos!
Message to Rabbi Tropper: Let this serve as a great warning and sign to you, that your were misguided in your assumptions and that not only were your efforts futile, but they bore poisonous and dangerous fruits, and you cannot come up with the lame excuse, like Eve, that "it's all Momzer's fault" or that "Bomzer made them do it" because you were the one that got the ball rolling by taking Guma and Jamie under your controlling wings, obviously something went horribly wrong and they rebelled against you, when noone asked you to go in over your head and cause such crazy damage as you sought every means to defend your obvious (excepet to you) stance and rationale, but now you must do public penance for launching the fierce Guma Golem who will now trump his perverted cause from Israel across the world (having learned a thing or two from his days launching and spreading EJF propaganda), and that you, Rabbi Tropper, by failing to fully MEKAREV him and failing to fully MEGAYER his wife with your "EJF standards" and having learned the lessosns of what happens when you fail in your self-appoined cockamamy mission, have brought a catastrophe upon yourself and on Klal Yisroel, r"l.
You cannot hide behind Tom Kaplan's two lawsuits against Guma and play innocent on the sidelines saying it's "just a private family feud" when it's far worse than that.
Like Rabbeinu Yonah who opposed the RAMBAM and later repented for that and wrote the Shaarei Teshuva you must PUBLICLY and preferably IN WRITING renounce Guma and Jamie because, as you/Roni continuosly admit on this blog, Tropper was the first and the longest rabbi to to try to (a) MEKAREV Guma, but failed and (b) MEGAYER Jamie, but failed so miserably and now so spectacularly out in the open.
And as you/Roni have pointed out on this blog a few times, it was only after Tropper failed to both MEKAREV Guma and MEGAYER Jamie that it was your/Tropper failues as both Kiruv rabbi and Geirus worker that drove Guma and his wife Jamie and their kids into the arms of your/Tropper's arch-enemy, Rabbi Bomzer and the Chabad rabbi in Florida who did the unthinkable according to you. It was you/Tropper who drove Guma and Jamie into Bomzer's arms, so you cannot cry fould when Bomzer did what he always does, perform lenient conversions that you hate and fight so much, and have the last laugh with the Chabad rabbi at you his rodef who has no clue in diplomacy 101.
Like Rabbeinu Yona you must take the lead in OPENLY renouncing Guma and Jamie, and it is not enough that you won't "take their money" because guess what, they are not giving it you in any acse, so you must stop hiding under fake identities online or faking neutrality converning the Kaplan-Guma family feud, but like a person who must not only face up to his failures and mistakes but must now also try to undo them and warn others of not getting involved with Guma and how you have anandoned the misbegotten EJF cockamamy experiment to convert the non-Jewish partners hitched to Jews.
You must do this forcefully, in writing and consistantly and clearly, so that the world will know not to repeat the mistakes you/Tropper have made.
You also owe a huge apology to all the rabbonim who came to EJF events and whom you fooled into thinking that all was above board at EJF metchila ad sof, when you knew full-well the fact that Guma, the guy heading up the Kaplan Foundation and writing the checks not just for EJF and various mosdos but also to your/Tropper's own Kol Yaakov yeshiva and its "Horizons" outreach program, brought about a great Chillul Hashem and Bizayon to all, Hashem Yerachem.
Hoping to hear Besuros Tovos from you soon and that we can put our past differences behind us and unite together as Torah Jews!