Which candidate wants restrictions on abortions and particularly late term abortions-a matter of pikuach nefesh? Which candidate wants less porous borders? Which candidate will sacrifice higher prices for American-made products over Chinese products? Which candidate recognized that in a city like NYC where 75% of shooters are identified as black (by other blacks), a stop and frisk rate of 535 is not unreasonable. Which candidate will support conservative judges who interpret the law rather than liberal judges who rewrite the law? Which candidate will dismantle the ACA which has decreased medical services and increased costs (as much as 116% in Arizona?
I think I know full well which candidate R. Miller would support.
I don't see how you are reading that. He explicitly says that if all the Nazis support one candidate, we should support the other candidate. I do not think that anyone questions who has the support of the Neo-Nazis in this election.
Do you pay any attention to history or to Rabbi Miller? Are you even capable of it. Rabbi Miller supported Pat Buchanan and his attempts at public office. There are no Nazis around today, and the libtards are by far much more antisemitic.
Always fun watching libtard comments, their bullying and now, their panic-filled meltdowns.
I would argue that R Miller would still expect that we vote for someone and the abortion issue alone makes Trump the preferred candidate.
Ami has an excellent article on how the gedolim advised others how to vote. http://amimagazine.org/the-values-vote.html
R. Miller pushed morals over economic or other assistance. R. Moshe was purportedly more measured. You could see this in action when Catholic Bob Turner beat the Orthodox Weprin in a Flatbush congressional district. All the NYC gedolim attacked Weprin. Notable exceptions were the gedolim from the LES. BTW, their since-convicted patron was the person most responsible for the passage of the toeivah law in NYS.
It is equally clear to see the quid pro quo between Hillary and Satmar. Bill pardoned their criminals in exchange for Satmar votes for Hillary in her first Senate race. Give them credit for loyalty.
"Which candidate will sacrifice higher prices for American-made products over Chinese products?"
So you're opposed to free trade but then want conservative justices? Which one is it? Do you believe in the free enterprise system or do you want a bigger government with more trade restrictions?
(This is rhetorical. I know the answer- you're a confused Trump voter who has yet to figure out what qualifies as "conservative" and what qualifies as "liberal.")
1. Controlling free trade is neither a liberal nor a conservative position. It is an economic position-not a legal or political one. 2. Supporting constructionst judges (e.g. Scalia) rather than activist judges (e.g.Ginsburg) is a conservative legal position. 3. Even if your point were accurate, "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson. Have you heard of him?
I was told by an American that Nixon did not want any Jews in his cabinet. This article states that Nixon called Kissinger a Jew-boy. http://www.economist.com/node/9184379 Yet, Nixon also saved - or was Hashem's kli to send weapons to Israel during the Yom Kippur war - of course this was for his geopolitical reasons. I'm not interfering in the US elections, which is a total farce and soap opera. American Jews traditionally voted democrat, and anything can still happen in the next few days. But you cannot really use this letter for something going on today. I personally liked Nixon, because I was too young at the time to understand how corrupt he was.
Why is abortion the burning morals issue for the Orthodox community? What of the "morals" of a self-proclaimed multi-billionaire who evidently did not give a penny to charity for over ten years? Who cheated on two of his wives? Who has been credibly accused by over a dozen women of some form of sexual assault? Who has repeatedly bragged about committing those very types of sexual assault? Clinton has her faults, but voting for Trump based on morals is a joke.
The fate of yet-to-be-delivered children who are murdered in the womb -even though many would be viable if they were delivered should be THE burning issue. Because of the principle of precedent, overturning Roe v Wade is near impossible. But we can certainly carve this outrage out of the law. The RBSO will not question me as to why I chose the menuval over the menuveles. But I can expect din v'cheshbon on how I could stay silent when this country permits the murder of over 30 children per day (on average) via late-term abortion.
He can sponsor legislation. If he has a solid majority in Congress, and if his mojo with them is strong enough, it might pass. Not saying it will -- it actually seems unlikely to me -- but that's how it could be done.
It is certainly doable in the case of partial-birth abortion, which is literally retzichah, and which many supporters of abortion view with horror.
And even if it is not doable, why is that a reason that Mr. Doowdim should not vote his conscience regarding a very serious moral issue?
Constructionist judges. At least allow states to decide rather than the federal government. Most reasonable people will agree that a woman does not have a fundamental right to murder an infant that can survive out of the womb and whose only crime is that it is still in the womb.
If he is voting because of Trump's promises regarding abortion that he can't fulfill and at the same time he selects a na who is incompetent and irresponsible president - he not only is gaining anything but stands to suffer serious consequences
Anyone who knows how Rav Miller thought and has listened to at least a few hundred hours of his shiurim would know that there is no question at all that he would have expected his talmidim to vote for Trump. Just for the record, when I asked Rav Miller a few years before he was nifter who would be the best President for America, he said, "Take any Italian bum off the street and he would do the best job because he knows intuitively what's right and wrong - unlike the foolish liberals." Trump is not Italian - but he's pretty close to what the Rav had in mind.
Rabbi E., I am completely baffled as to how you could read this letter as implying that R' Miller would say to vote for neither candidate today. To me, this letter proves R' Miller would say to vote for Trump davka!
You are completely misunderstanding what Rav Miller said. He was saying not to vote for a candidate that is backed by the revolutionaries ie the liberal candidate. He was using the example of Nazis kidei li'li'saber es ha'ozen. What I'm saying is validated by hundreds of other statements of Rav Miller. What Rav Miller was saying was that the Democrat candidate is the revolutionary candidate. Donald Trump is NOT the Nazis candidate.
Listen, anyone following this election knows that Trump has had great support from white nationalists and neo-Nazis, (and has even taken the step of retweeting them on several occasions). There has yet to be one publicly reported incident of anyone like that supporting Clinton. So, can I attest that there is not one neo-Nazi somewhere who in his heart of hearts is a Clinton supporter? Obviously not. But I still challenge you to find one instance of any neo-Nazi/white nationalist who has publicly supported Clinton.
If your stomach turns from a "long list" of his positions, it's time for you to begin developing a Torah mind. Even if you think such a thing, you should be embarrassed to say it.
On the day after the election, Rav Miller would show no interest in knowing who won. He said (and truly believed) that his support of one candidate over another was part of his avodas Hashem and the results weren't as important as the avodas Hashem. That was in Hashem's hands and he didn't waste his time with it. You should realize that he was a true eved Hashem - someone to learn from and not somebody with some stam opinion.
And what if the neo-Nazis support Trump? Are you that immature in your thinking that any candidate supported by some Nazi is a bad candidate for America. What Rav Miller was saying was that McGovern was being supported by the revolutionaries who want to destroy America. And that applies to Clinton as well.
It wasn't a letter. It was transcribed from his regular question and answer session after his Thursday night shiur. I read it many times before I transcribed it. And I spoke to him about it many times. I understand your confusion and misinterpretation of it but you should trust those when we're close to Rav Miller than your own misinterpretation of his words.
But the question is whether we are compelled to abide by such an opinion when the subject is not a halachic matter.
ReplyDeleteTo me Rabbi Miller's letter is a strong endorsement of Trump
ReplyDeleteExcellent opinion piece by Holman Jenkins on why Hillary has now become the unsafe choice:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clinton-becomes-the-unsafe-hand-1478042102
No we are not compelled to abide by such an opinion
ReplyDeleteYou might want to read a little history regarding the attitude of gadolim to Napoleon
Which candidate wants restrictions on abortions and particularly late term abortions-a matter of pikuach nefesh?
ReplyDeleteWhich candidate wants less porous borders?
Which candidate will sacrifice higher prices for American-made products over Chinese products?
Which candidate recognized that in a city like NYC where 75% of shooters are identified as black (by other blacks), a stop and frisk rate of 535 is not unreasonable.
Which candidate will support conservative judges who interpret the law rather than liberal judges who rewrite the law?
Which candidate will dismantle the ACA which has decreased medical services and increased costs (as much as 116% in Arizona?
I think I know full well which candidate R. Miller would support.
I don't see how you are reading that. He explicitly says that if all the Nazis support one candidate, we should support the other candidate. I do not think that anyone questions who has the support of the Neo-Nazis in this election.
ReplyDeleteyou are only paying attention to half of what he said
ReplyDeleteDo you pay any attention to history or to Rabbi Miller? Are you even capable of it. Rabbi Miller supported Pat Buchanan and his attempts at public office. There are no Nazis around today, and the libtards are by far much more antisemitic.
ReplyDeleteAlways fun watching libtard comments, their bullying and now, their panic-filled meltdowns.
I fully agree that Rabbi Miller would strongly oppose a Clinton candidacy. How do you see in this letter that he would say not to vote for Trump?
ReplyDeleteI would argue that R Miller would still expect that we vote for someone and the abortion issue alone makes Trump the preferred candidate.
ReplyDeleteAmi has an excellent article on how the gedolim advised others how to vote. http://amimagazine.org/the-values-vote.html
R. Miller pushed morals over economic or other assistance. R. Moshe was purportedly more measured. You could see this in action when Catholic Bob Turner beat the Orthodox Weprin in a Flatbush congressional district. All the NYC gedolim attacked Weprin. Notable exceptions were the gedolim from the LES. BTW, their since-convicted patron was the person most responsible for the passage of the toeivah law in NYS.
It is equally clear to see the quid pro quo between Hillary and Satmar. Bill pardoned their criminals in exchange for Satmar votes for Hillary in her first Senate race. Give them credit for loyalty.
"Which candidate will sacrifice higher prices for American-made products over Chinese products?"
ReplyDeleteSo you're opposed to free trade but then want conservative justices? Which one is it? Do you believe in the free enterprise system or do you want a bigger government with more trade restrictions?
(This is rhetorical. I know the answer- you're a confused Trump voter who has yet to figure out what qualifies as "conservative" and what qualifies as "liberal.")
1. Controlling free trade is neither a liberal nor a conservative position. It is an economic position-not a legal or political one.
ReplyDelete2. Supporting constructionst judges (e.g. Scalia) rather than activist judges (e.g.Ginsburg) is a conservative legal position.
3. Even if your point were accurate, "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." Ralph Waldo Emerson. Have you heard of him?
I was told by an American that Nixon did not want any Jews in his cabinet.
ReplyDeleteThis article states that Nixon called Kissinger a Jew-boy. http://www.economist.com/node/9184379
Yet, Nixon also saved - or was Hashem's kli to send weapons to Israel during the Yom Kippur war - of course this was for his geopolitical reasons.
I'm not interfering in the US elections, which is a total farce and soap opera. American Jews traditionally voted democrat, and anything can still happen in the next few days. But you cannot really use this letter for something going on today.
I personally liked Nixon, because I was too young at the time to understand how corrupt he was.
The Nazis by no means all support one candidate. Younger been buying into the liberal media narrative.
ReplyDeleteNapoleon didn't run for office. Nevertheless, what was the gedolim's opinion of him?
ReplyDeleteAnd what would they have held if Napoleon was running against Czar Nicholas?
Why is abortion the burning morals issue for the Orthodox community? What of the "morals" of a self-proclaimed multi-billionaire who evidently did not give a penny to charity for over ten years? Who cheated on two of his wives? Who has been credibly accused by over a dozen women of some form of sexual assault? Who has repeatedly bragged about committing those very types of sexual assault? Clinton has her faults, but voting for Trump based on morals is a joke.
ReplyDeleteAdd that to the long list of Rabbi Miller's positions that make my stomach turn.
ReplyDeleteCan you back that assertion up, please?
ReplyDeleteI am looking forward to you having as much fun watching them celebrate next Wednesday.
ReplyDeleteThe fate of yet-to-be-delivered children who are murdered in the womb -even though many would be viable if they were delivered should be THE burning issue. Because of the principle of precedent, overturning Roe v Wade is near impossible. But we can certainly carve this outrage out of the law. The RBSO will not question me as to why I chose the menuval over the menuveles. But I can expect din v'cheshbon on how I could stay silent when this country permits the murder of over 30 children per day (on average) via late-term abortion.
ReplyDeleteDocument any claim you might have otherwise. I was merely disputing your undocumented claim otherwise. Back up your assertion about "all" of them.
ReplyDeleteplease tell me how President Trump will accomplish this?
ReplyDeleteNice try.
ReplyDeleteHe can sponsor legislation. If he has a solid majority in Congress, and if his mojo with them is strong enough, it might pass. Not saying it will -- it actually seems unlikely to me -- but that's how it could be done.
ReplyDeleteIt is certainly doable in the case of partial-birth abortion, which is literally retzichah, and which many supporters of abortion view with horror.
And even if it is not doable, why is that a reason that Mr. Doowdim should not vote his conscience regarding a very serious moral issue?
Constructionist judges. At least allow states to decide rather than the federal government. Most reasonable people will agree that a woman does not have a fundamental right to murder an infant that can survive out of the womb and whose only crime is that it is still in the womb.
ReplyDeleteIf he is voting because of Trump's promises regarding abortion that he can't fulfill and at the same time he selects a na who is incompetent and irresponsible president - he not only is gaining anything but stands to suffer serious consequences
ReplyDeleteAnyone who knows how Rav Miller thought and has listened to at least a few hundred hours of his shiurim would know that there is no question at all that he would have expected his talmidim to vote for Trump.
ReplyDeleteJust for the record, when I asked Rav Miller a few years before he was nifter who would be the best President for America, he said, "Take any Italian bum off the street and he would do the best job because he knows intuitively what's right and wrong - unlike the foolish liberals." Trump is not Italian - but he's pretty close to what the Rav had in mind.
Rabbi E., I am completely baffled as to how you could read this letter as implying that R' Miller would say to vote for neither candidate today. To me, this letter proves R' Miller would say to vote for Trump davka!
ReplyDeleteYour try wasn't as nice; you had a complete fail
ReplyDeleteYou are completely misunderstanding what Rav Miller said. He was saying not to vote for a candidate that is backed by the revolutionaries ie the liberal candidate. He was using the example of Nazis kidei li'li'saber es ha'ozen. What I'm saying is validated by hundreds of other statements of Rav Miller. What Rav Miller was saying was that the Democrat candidate is the revolutionary candidate. Donald Trump is NOT the Nazis candidate.
ReplyDeleteListen, anyone following this election knows that Trump has had great support from white nationalists and neo-Nazis, (and has even taken the step of retweeting them on several occasions). There has yet to be one publicly reported incident of anyone like that supporting Clinton. So, can I attest that there is not one neo-Nazi somewhere who in his heart of hearts is a Clinton supporter? Obviously not. But I still challenge you to find one instance of any neo-Nazi/white nationalist who has publicly supported Clinton.
ReplyDeleteadd to that Russia supports Trump and has actively intervened in the election.
ReplyDeleteIf your stomach turns from a "long list" of his positions, it's time for you to begin developing a Torah mind. Even if you think such a thing, you should be embarrassed to say it.
ReplyDeleteOn the day after the election, Rav Miller would show no interest in knowing who won. He said (and truly believed) that his support of one candidate over another was part of his avodas Hashem and the results weren't as important as the avodas Hashem. That was in Hashem's hands and he didn't waste his time with it.
ReplyDeleteYou should realize that he was a true eved Hashem - someone to learn from and not somebody with some stam opinion.
And what if the neo-Nazis support Trump? Are you that immature in your thinking that any candidate supported by some Nazi is a bad candidate for America. What Rav Miller was saying was that McGovern was being supported by the revolutionaries who want to destroy America. And that applies to Clinton as well.
ReplyDeletereread Rav Miller's letter
ReplyDeleteThe black panther terrorists support Clinton, to take one example. But you still haven't documented your original claim.
ReplyDeletehttps://youtube.com/watch?v=3rwbyZXRuEk
ReplyDeleteJust for you.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/30/is-this-hillary-clinton-kkk-supporter-just-an-elaborate-troll.html
ofcourse RAM would say mitzva to vote for trump! also RAM spoke muuuch against abortion, gay rights etc. -not for clinton
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't a letter. It was transcribed from his regular question and answer session after his Thursday night shiur. I read it many times before I transcribed it. And I spoke to him about it many times. I understand your confusion and misinterpretation of it but you should trust those when we're close to Rav Miller than your own misinterpretation of his words.
ReplyDelete