I received this letter before the elections and just obtained permission to post it. It is a further extension of the weakening of emunas chachomim that resulted from the Kaminetsky-Greenblatt Heter and is a genuine problem.
Hi
I've been a regular reader of your site for some time. One thing which is unique about your blog is your willingness to stake out unpopular opinions. I was further heartened to see you take a critical stance on Trump.
So, I'm turning to you. Perhaps you can talk me off of this ledge.
'Daas Torah' has been heavily involved in this election. I've heard at least 4 different versions.
1. R Yeruchem Olshin said to vote for Trump. He compared it to Dovid and Shaul. Shaul sinned in public and lost the melucha, Dovid sinned privately and retained the melucha. Hilary is publicly corrupt, so don't vote for her. Trump sinned privately so vote for him.
2. R' Shmuel Kamentsky. R' Edelstein called America 'asray d'mar' (mar indeed) and r' Kamenetsky' view should be followed.
3. R' Yitzchok Yehuda Blum, respected rov in cleveland. He said Hilary is a rotzayach (apparently there are some conspiracy theories that have her murdering up to 50 people). He also said that she will put Jewish lives in danger; therefore it's pikuch nefesh.
4. Satmer rebbe. Trump is a supporter of Israel. Since Israel is bad, Trump is bad too.
5. Skvere rebbe. Vote for Hillary.
None of these views reflect the Torah's outlook. They are riddled with logical inconsistencies and rooted in hate. How has Trump sinned privately? Everything the man does is l'fnai kol aam v'aydah. How is giving an irresponsible demagogue access to nuclear bombs not pikuch nefesh? Satmer and Skver are hoping to capitalize on their existing relationships with Hilary to keep the gravy train rolling.
I'm left with this: The concept of Da'as Torah is a farce. It's a masquerade. It allows rabbanim to take their personal political views and package it a divine mandate. I used to think that we're a nation of smart people. Now I see that we're just like everyone else. We are just as susceptible to bias and hate as all the other nations.
And so, how can I rely on anything I hear? How can I trust anything I hear from our Rabbanim? How can I be sure that every utterance is not influenced by personal beliefs? Where is the limit to blindness and bias? How can we claim the halachic process is pure? How can we claim to authentically transmit our heritage? How can we be sure it has been shaped and molded by personal opinion and prejudice? How can we be sure personal opinion hasn't infiltrated our halacha?
And if the masses blindly follow the rabbinic dicta, how can we trust mesorah at all? Instead of critically evaluating issues, like sheep, the masses just followed along. I used to rely on the Kuzari to explain Sinaic revelation - no one would make such a claim etc. Now I see that the opposite is true. The bigger the claim, the more outlandish, the more exaggerated something is, the higher the chance of people accepting it. Instead of using reason and truth as guiding principles, people rely on bias and superstition and exaggerations that align with their deeply held prejudice.
I'd like to somehow still believe. Please help me walk away from this cliff
You have presented 2 dilemmas. One about daas Torah and one about the Kuzari. I address them one by one. When rabbonim give a political opinion, it is truly a mistake to call it daas Torah. It doesn't say in The Torah to vote for this one or that one. Especially since we can never have all of the pertinent information about each candidate to be able to decide a Torah view.The same applies to business advice. It is true that a person who is learned of Torah is wiser than otherwise, but even wisdom can contain 2 opposite opinions, each being well thought out with wisdom. The Baal Hatania is known to have told a person who came to seek his advice in business, that he is a Torah scholar and not a business expert. Still a person wants to ask a wiser individual who he should vote for, so he asks his rabbi, but that doesn't make it Torah or daas Torah.
ReplyDeleteAs far as The Kuzari, it's no comparison to the issues at hand. These issues can't be proven, because the most they can ever be is conjecture, and the only question is which conjecture in more logical than the other. But when an account is given of a past event, it is presented as fact, and therefore is only accepted by the people if it is true.
Kiryas Yoel majority voted for Trump.
ReplyDeleteThe answer that we do not know that Rav Olshin or Rav Blum said that! These are rabbis who have written many public letters; yet they wrote nothing about the elections. I guarantee you that if they wanted you to know their opinion, they would publish it. They did not publicize their opinion about voting! It was done on election day by some unreliable gossip sites.
ReplyDeleteWhy believe every story you read??
Rabbi Kamenetzky is different. He decided to do a newspaper interview about it - which is like a public letter. But that's him. This is small stuff compared to propagating adultery.
But I do not believe that Rav Edelstein called him the Mara deasra. Probably a nudnick sent by these sites to ask David Edelstein who to vote for. " Ask your mora deasra" was the likely reply. Can I rely on him? "Yes". Ahh, so now rav Edelstein somehow turned RSK into the rabbi of all. If believe the gossip sites, you may want invest in some bridges for sale. Hurry, great deals!
BTW, the criticism of Skver is misplaced. They do need to show hakoras hatov.
Get yourself one trusted rov, a more hor'o'oh in halocho (not a Rosh Yeshiva) that you can approach and speak to, and has personal ability to contact a 'godol' in EY or anywhere for sheilos he cannot/will not address (eg life and death shailos, lo olienu). And decide yourself who to vote for.
ReplyDeleteThat was the system a hundred years ago, and that is the system that should be re-introduced.
What an earth is the problem?
Follow the advise of the mishna and find yourself a Rav. You wont have to worry about what a far away Rosh Yeshiva, Rav or anyone else may or may not have said.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely no comparison to the Kuzari, who was talkling about the impossibility of convincing 2 million people that they personally witnessed the Revelation of Sinai.
ReplyDeleteAs for Daas Torah, can you point to the commandment that requires you to check your brain at the door? Most people have the good sense to know the difference between halachah, hashkafah and opinion, and to make decisions accordingly. Any number of frum, ehrliche Jews make their political choices without the slightest reference to Rabbinic authority. The fact that you for some reason find this difficult to do does not constitute a crisis of faith.
I want to guess that you already had things that weakened your belief in Daas Torah but this election thing broke the camel's back. First of all, if both candidates are bad, are you allowed to support either one? If yes, should you support the one to whom you have Hakaras Hatov? You talk about the gravy train. If you already have issues with Daas Torah then you'll say the gravy train was why they supported Hillary. If not, and you believed very strongly in Daas Torah then you'll say that Hakaras Hatov was the real consideration.
ReplyDeleteSatmar believes fighting Zionism is the biggest Mitzva. So you do that Mitzva also while you're voting.
You misquoted Rav Olshin. See Mishnas R Aharon v. 3 p. 37? for the correct difference between Shaul and Dovid.
I have my own reservations about the 'asray d'mar' bit. But RSK gave no reasons, only that YOU decided that Trump is too far gone that there could be ANY reason to go for him.
Think it through. Then you could walk away from the cliff without anyone helping you.
Why do you agonize over shtuyot?
ReplyDeleteWhy not just buy yourself (and family) a one way ticket to E"Y (you may even get them free from the sochnut), find yourself a place to sit and learn and forget about anything else?
Very similar to my response.
ReplyDelete