Tuesday, September 23, 2008

Sages - Torah given on their understanding /Not in Heaven

Chasam Sofer (5:191): A zakein mamre and his colleagues are great scholars who are arguing with the Sanhedrin. Even though the Sanhedrin are great scholars who sit before G d in His house (Temple) – this doesn’t mean of necessity that their analysis is true. It is possible that the zakein mamre’s understanding of the Torah verse is more true… Furthermore it could be that the view of the zakein mamre and those who agree with him can be ten’s of thousands of people while the Sanhedrin is only 71 people. Despite the fact that the zakein mamre might be correct and his view is accepted by the majority of Torah scholars, nevertheless G d decreed that it is the understanding of the Sanhedrin which determines the halacha because of the rule “Torah is no longer in Heaven.” Therefore we ignore a heavenly voice or a prophet who proclaims halacha and not only that but if a prophet proclaims the halacha as a prophet – he is liable to the death penalty because he is obviously a false prophet. That is because G d would not tell a prophet the nature of halachos that had been forgotten. That is why when halachos were forgotten in the period of mourning for Moshe, they were recovered by Azniel ben Kenaz by means of intellectual analysis – and prophecy wasn’t used. Furthermore even that which Azneil ben Kenaz recovered with intellectual analysis – who says that he discovered the truth? The understanding of man is not clear cut and there are multiple ways of interpreting a verse with such techniques as kal v’chomer and the like. The fact is that G d gave us the Torah according to the understanding of the Sanhedrin in order that the halachic disputes should be kept to a minimum. If there were no clear-cut rules of authority then there would be no end to the number of disputes. Therefore G d is forgiving if chas v’shalom an incident occurs in which the Sanhedrin of that generation according to their limited understanding do not comprehend the truth. After careful evaluation for the sake of heaven they issue a ruling in which the majority declare that which is clearly forbidden to be permitted. G d is forgiving even though their ruling has the result that all Jews follow their ruling and eat the forbidden fat. Those that follow this mistaken ruling of the Sanhedrin are not guilty of any sin. That is because the Sanhedrin erred G d is forgiving. Furthermore even if the zaken mamre is strict and does not eat the forbidden fat because he is concerned that the Sanhedrin was wrong and even though it is clear to G d that the halacha is in accord with the zaken mamre’s understanding, the Rambam states that the zakein mamre is liable to the death penalty for disobeying the ruling of the Sanhedrin. This is a very beneficial law which has the effect of preventing disputes. Therefore the zakein mamre should not worry at all as to whether he will be eating forbidden fats when he follows the ruling of the Sanhedrin or that he might end up doing prohibited work on Shabbos..

5 comments :

  1. How does the last line comport with the mishna/gemara in horiyot/

    Listen to

    http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/727850/Rabbi_Michael_Rosensweig/How_to_relate_to_the_study_of_Tanach?
    where R' Rosensweig mentions opinions that ein navi is subject to exceptions (unfortunately the mareh mkomot are not clear). Your take on this issue?

    KT
    Joel Rich

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  2. On the other hand, this is exactly what happened to Rabbi Eliezer at the end of his life (see something in Bava Metzia, I can never remember page numbers). He was techincally right but because he was outvoted he had to be put in cherem for insisting he was right.

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  3. On the other hand, this is exactly what happened to Rabbi Eliezer at the end of his life (see something in Bava Metzia, I can never remember page numbers). He was techincally right but because he was outvoted he had to be put in cherem for insisting he was right.

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  4. Garnel Ironheart said...

    On the other hand, this is exactly what happened to Rabbi Eliezer at the end of his life (see something in Bava Metzia, I can never remember page numbers). He was techincally right but because he was outvoted he had to be put in cherem for insisting he was right.

    BM (59b):his was the oven of ‘Aknai.1 Why [the oven of] ‘Aknai? — Said Rab Judah in Samuel's name: [It means] that they encompassed it with arguments2 as a snake, and proved it unclean. It has been taught: On that day R. Eliezer brought forward every imaginable argument ,3 but they did not accept them. Said he to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let this carob-tree prove it!’ Thereupon the carob-tree was torn a hundred cubits out of its place — others affirm, four hundred cubits. ‘No proof can be brought from a carob-tree,’ they retorted. Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let the stream of water prove it!’ Whereupon the stream of water flowed backwards — ‘No proof can be brought from a stream of water,’ they rejoined. Again he urged: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let the walls of the schoolhouse prove it,’ whereupon the walls inclined to fall. But R. Joshua rebuked them, saying: ‘When scholars are engaged in a halachic dispute, what have ye to interfere?’ Hence they did not fall, in honour of R. Joshua, nor did they resume the upright, in honour of R. Eliezer; and they are still standing thus inclined. Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let it be proved from Heaven!’ Whereupon a Heavenly Voice cried out: ‘Why do ye dispute with R. Eliezer, seeing that in all matters the halachah agrees with him!’ But R. Joshua arose and exclaimed: ‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice, because Thou hast long since written in the Torah at Mount Sinai, After the majority must one incline.5

    R. Nathan met Elijah6 and asked him: What did the Holy One, Blessed be He, do in that hour? — He laughed [with joy], he replied, saying, ‘My sons have defeated Me, My sons have defeated Me.’

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  5. Keep going till the end of the story - what happened to Rabban Gamliel and how does that inform on the lessons learned?

    KT
    Joel Rich

    ReplyDelete

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