Melave Malka at South Fallsburg

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I was just informed that the guest speaker's  - Tropper - topic was that Yosef's brothers only saw the bad in him. I wonder what he meant by that?

Lashon harah: Chofetz Chaim permits for to'eles only when not motivated by hatred.

There is a very fundamental question that affects not only the laws of lashon harah but also the issue of rescuing someone from harm such as child abuse.

For example the understanding of the mishna and gemora  of Sanhedrin (73a) is disputed. Do we stop a rodef from killing a person or a rapist from attacking a woman because we are commanded to save the victim or because we want to stop the perpetrator from sinning?

We learn also learn from this gemora that there is an obligation to "not stand idly by the blood of your fellow". It is important to note that this verse is the end of the verse that is the source for the prohibition of not speaking lashon harah. There are a number of sources which say that the prohibition of lashon harah is therefore connected with the mitzva of saving others. In other words there is no prohibition of lashon harah when someone is in danger - either physically or financially.

Another way of phrasing this question is - will a person be hurt if we fail to keep the mitzva of "not standing idly by the blood of ones fellow"? If a person died after we avoided rescuing him - would he have died if we had tried to save him? If we saved him - would G-d have found another way of rescuing him if we had not? In other words is the mitzva of saving another independent of whether or not the person is actually rescued?

Another example is found in the laws of lashon harah. We know that it is permitted to speak lashon harah to save a person from harm by warning him that somebody is planning on attacking him. The Chofetz Chaim however says that before a person can say lashon harah there are 7 conditions that must be filled. If even one of these is not fulfilled he says it is prohibited to say anything. One of the 7 is to'eles (benefit). We normally say that to'eles means it brings a benefit. The classic description of lashon harah says that just as a snake bites without getting pleasure so is the case of speaking lashon harah. It is something which does not bring benefit and therefore it there is a benefit it would be permitted. However the Chofetz Chaim has an additional understanding of to'eles. Not only must benefit result from the telling of lashon harah - but also the intent of speaker has to be for benefit and not because of hatred or the enjoyment of pointing out someone's faults. The Chofetz Chaim says that this requirement can be seen from the fact that Jews have been harmed by non-Jews as part of G-d's plan to correct their ways. Even though it was G-d's will and desire that they harm the Jews they were were severely punished for doing it. That is because they didn't hurt the Jews because they wanted them to stop sinning but rather because they of hatred and enjoyment of the suffering of the Jews.

To put it more clearly, if a person was robbed and he wants to tell others that he was harmed because of his hatred for the assailant the Chofetz Chaim says it is prohibited to say anything - even though there is benefit in that the others will know to guard against the robber. Similarly the Sema (C.M. 421:28) says that if a person sees an assailant beating up someone one he can normally stop the assault even if he needs to beat up the assailant since there is a mitzva of stopping a person from sin. However he adds that if typically he does not intervene to stop assault  but on one unusual occasion he decides to intervene -  he is not allowed to beat the assailant. The Sema says because we know from past experience that he is not motivated to stop a person from sin. Therefore his intervention this time must be because he has hatred for the assailant. The Sema rules you can not rescue another by beating the assailant if your motivation is hatred rather than a desire to stop him from sinning.

Understanding this issue has tremendous implications for self-defense and the defense of others. The discussion will continue in a future post.

High Court:Palestinians can use highway - despite danger to Israelis

NYTimes  

JPOST 


The High Court of Justice on Tuesday accepted a petition against an IDF order barring Palestinians from driving on Highway 443.

The ruling will come into effect in five months' time, allowing Palestinians to use the road for the first time since October 2002, when it was closed to Palestinian traffic following a series of drive-by shootings at the height of the Second Intifada. Then-defense minister Binyamin Ben Eliezer was adamant at the time that Israelis would not serve as "moving targets" to West Bank terrorists.

Tuesday's decision came despite the court indicating last year that the road had become a key highway serving tens of thousands of Israelis whose safety would be endangered if Palestinians were allowed to use it unrestrictedly. [...]

R' Riskin: Judaism & Christianity

This is not the typical way an Orthodox rabbi speaks today. Rabbi Riskin issues a clarification
There is also an official clarification issued by Rabbi Riskin in the comments section

EJF scandal - comments from other blogs

1. From R' Harry Maryles:

I knew what this con man was about 20 years ago when I first met him. He was responsible then for ruining the life of one young man I am very close with - making life miserable for his parents. His mother went to the grave suffering an estrangement from her son for which Leib Tropper was responsible. His father suffers to this day from it. He took advantage of this young man's misfortune and conned him into doing something no decent man would ever do. And he made it seem like he was doing him a favor. This young man is now 20 years older and still suffering the consequences of it. Consequences that after 20 years have little chance of being reversed! I cannot get into details because confidences would be broken. But suffice it to say his only concern at that time was not to help this young man but to help himself by gaining the support of a wealthy friend in doing this con.

2. From a comment on ViN:

I have been involved with Kiruv for over three decades. Close to thirty years ago a university student underwent a Giyur Kehalacha when he discovered that his mother was converted by Conservative rabbis. A week later he went to Yeshivas Ohr Sameach. A few weeks ago EJF told him that his Giyur may not be good because they have questions of the Rabbonim who did it. Who is a erliche Orthodox Rav and does not do kulahs in Giyur. This shocking action is beyond belief. The EJF did not call the Rabbomin in question. They just put the Safek in the mind of this person 3 decades later. We need a proper structure in Giyur, and proper standards kept. However the idea that Rabbonim in Monsey, or Meah Shearim will suddenly begin to question Geirus done properly is outrageous. There is no historical precedent for this. There are a small group of Rabbonim aligned with EJF that have attempted to impose their view on Gierus. They are overreaching and creating havoc in the Jewish community.

3. From a comment on ViN:

I went to Rav Reuven Feinstein when the now infamous former head of the EJF tried to stop my marriage to my wife who is a giyores. He claimed that the Rov who was migayer her did not know what he was doing. Rbe Reuven told me that her geirus was fine. We are married now. The head of EJF got what he deserved for the pain he caused me and many others.

4. From a comment on ViN:

I converted years ago and have been frum from the time I emerged from the mikvah and the EJF told me my conversion was invalid because of the rabbonim on the beis din, all of whom were frum Orthodox rabbonim by the way. I was not the only person this happened to. Of course the EJF offered to 'fix' it for a substantial sum of money. How nice of them.

5. From Rabbi Natan Slifkin:

Also involved in the campaign against my books was Yaakov Kalmanowitz's brother,Rabbi Osher Kalmanowitz of the Mir Yeshivah in New York. He did not want to openly involve himself, and so he recruited his friend Rabbi Leib Tropper of Yeshivas Kol Yaakov in Monsey. Rabbi Tropper created a story that was told to the Rabbis who were approached to condemn the books. The story involved two students in his yeshivah, described as "angelic," who allegedly dropped out of yeshivah and left Orthodoxy after reading my books and concluding that "if the Sages could have been wrong about science, then they could have been wrong about everything." Rabbi Elya Wachtfogel, the primary rabbinic authority behind this ban, presented this story as grounds for his campaign. I myself was shaken when I heard about this story, but my mentors were skeptical and advised my to investigate it. The investigation showed that one of them was barely observant to begin with, and dropped out of yeshivah before my book on the Sages' knowledge of science was published. The other left Kol Yaakov and went to YU; he wrote to me that it was nothing to do with my books, which strengthened his Judaism, but he noted that the rabbis in Kol Yaakov did not like them.

EJF scandal - R' Adlerstein nails it!

Cross-currents

If you don't know what it stands for, skip the rest of this piece. I am not going to rehash the whole sordid affair.

For what it is worth, I will offer one man's opinion, written as a bit of an insider in the world of gerus, since I sit from time to time on a respected beis din for gerus. The opinions expressed herein are my own; they were not vetted by my colleagues.

I have come neither to praise EJF, nor to bury it. If I believed that EJF was worthless, I wouldn't bother writing. It is only because I see the potential for accomplishment that I pen these thoughts, in the hope that others will feel the same way.

The chief problem with EJF is not its recent scandal-ridden past. The problem is that to date, it has not done enough to insure that the past will not be repeated. The way in which it has addressed the past hardly inspires any confidence. [...]

Conservative Judaism:Van Leer Conference

JPost

Burning issues threatening to split the Conservative Movement, such as the ordination of homosexual and lesbian rabbis, the sharp drop in the number of young members and the challenge of intermarriage will be raised this week during a two-day conference in Jerusalem's Van Leer Institute entitled "Conservative Judaism: Halacha, Culture and Sociology."

"This will be the first time that an institution not associated with the Conservative Movement will devote a scholarly conference to Conservative Judaism," said Professor Naftali Rothenberg, Jewish Culture and Identity Chair at Van Leer.

"And this is happening on the backdrop of a major crisis that the Conservative Movement is undergoing, in which members of the religious Right and Left in the movement are headed in opposite directions." [...]

EJF - praises themselves for being so wonderful

Eternal Jewish Family Update 12/27/2009

Halachic Heads of EJF in New Letter of Chizuk to Botei Din - Eternal Jewish Family

Three world renowned halachic authorities, who serve as chairmen of Halacha Committees of the Eternal Jewish Family in the US, Europe, and Israel, last week wrote a strong letter of chizuk to Botei Din throughout the world. The three are Harav Reuven Feinstein, Chairman, Halacha Committee, (USA), Dayan Chanoch Ehrentreu, Chairman, Halacha Committee (Europe), and Harav Shmuel Eliezer Stern, (Av Bais Din of Bais Din of Harav Wosner), Chairman, Halacha Committee (Israel). A network of 20 independent Botei Din are affiliated with EJF.

In their letter, the poskim note their continued involvement and expectation of the further growth and development of EJF. They note: "It is a big zchus for us to be able to continue to lead such an important undertaking, with even greater determination and vigor, to intensify these Torah projects and to serve as supporters of the Gedolei Yisroel."

The full text follows, please click read more to see the letter in the original Hebrew:

To the Rabbonim of the Batei Din,

For the past several years the well known organization "Eternal Jewish Family" has made it its mission to prevent problematic conversions by adhering to the standards set forth by the Gedolei Yisroel shlita.

With Hashem's will, this mission has succeeded through Botei Din who agreed to make the necessary changes in accordance with halacha mandating the acceptance of mitzvos with all nuances, as has been the standard for generations, in order to preserve the purity of the Jewish nation.

The distinguished Botei Din, to whom we exclusively refer candidates for conversion,   include members who are well known Talmidei Chachomim and Bnei Torah, who refer every difficult question to the Poskim of our generation.

We extend our heartfelt thanks and sincerest blessings to our dear sponsor Mr. Menachem Yitzchack (Tom) Kaplan, who actively sustains the organization's activities, in preventing assimilation around the world, and in supporting Torah study.

It is a big zchus for us to be able to continue to lead such an important undertaking, with even greater determination and vigor, to intensify these Torah projects, and to serve as supporters of the Gedolei Yisroel.

We wish to bless all those who are doing their utmost to improve kedushas Yisroel, as the passuk says: "Netzach Yisrael lo Yeshaker".

Harav Reuven Feinstein
Chairman, Halacha Committee, USA

Dayan Chanoch Eherentreu
Chairman, Halacha Committee, Europe

Rabbi Shmuel Eliezer Stern (Av Bais Din of Bais Din of Harav Wosner)
Chairman, Halacha Committee, Israel

Protest in New Square

Joseph's recapitulation of Tropper scandal

DT said:
Perhaps a new perspective is needed. Are you willing?

Joseph said:

I have thought about this and have also looked into all your previous posts, you have really left no stone unturned. In the beginning you even posted a defense for tropper, there was no real response. You asked tropper to apologize to reduce the chilul hashem in the world, there was no response. You posted a wonderful post; "Sounds of silence or who is the 800 lb gorilla in the room?" that post couldn't have been written better, you write there that tropper seems to have some friends still defending him, which sounds absurd. You write that the tapes have been 100% clarified. You quoted in a new post Rav Sternbuch, which is common sense, there is nothing more to be written in my opinion.

This last post of yours has drawn almost 100 responses, more than ever,(I don't know why this one triggered people more than previous ones) but a lot of it is going round in circles with the defenders constantly puling the wool over everyone's eyes. Like someone wrote before, if the holocaust can be denied then so can troppers guilt. Maybe you add this to the list of conspiracy theories, that you once posted. Its similar to the tactics that Hitler YMSH used in the early 1930`s, i.e. if you say a lie enough times then it becomes the truth. (this is the power he used to convince the german people of all his dirty theories and plans) This tactic is being deployed here and is becoming more widespread as the time goes on, obviously they are hoping to have some results via this method.

I would therefore advise you not to lend a hand to this dirty trick, keep yourself clean and above the water. Eventually the truth will prevail, as it always does, this took some years of your fighting to reveal this menuval, but now the truth is really out for everyone to see and hear.

Rav Sternbuch:Tropper is guilty!

There are increasing comments popping up that there is no evidence against Tropper. That the tapes are forged or misunderstood.

Let me present something rather basic that Rav Sternbuch has said recently to someone who asked about Tropper's guilt.

Rav Sternbuch, shlita said the following:

The fact that this story with the accompanying accusations has been printed in newspapers  around the world, the normal thing would be to hire the best lawyer in the world and issue a public denial and sue all the papers for libel. The mere fact that this has not been done is the biggest proof the accusations are true. It is an example of what our Sages say that silence in the face of an accusation is understood to be an admission "Shetikah k'hodah".

Messianic Times & rabbinic immorality

סוטה מט:

אזלא ודלדלה, ואין שואל ואין מבקש, על מי יש להשען? על אבינו שבשמים. בעקבות משיחא - חוצפא יסגא, ויוקר יאמיר, הגפן תתן פריה והיין ביוקר, ומלכות תהפך למינות, ואין תוכחת, בית וועד יהיה לזנות, והגליל יחרב, והגבלן ישום, ואנשי הגבול יסובבו מעיר לעיר ולא יחוננו, וחכמות סופרים תסרח, ויראי חטא ימאסו, והאמת תהא נעדרת, נערים פני זקנים ילבינו, זקנים יעמדו מפני קטנים, בן מנוול אב, בת קמה באמה, כלה בחמותה, אויבי איש אנשי ביתו, פני הדור כפני הכלב, הבן אינו מתבייש מאביו, ועל מה יש לנו להשען? על אבינו שבשמים

רש"י מסכת סוטה דף מט עמוד ב

ובית הוועד - של חכמים יהיו לבית זנות שכלו החכמים ואין לומד תורה ויהא חרב מאין איש ובעלי זימה מתגודדים שם מפני שחוץ לעיר היו בתי מדרשות שלהם.

Sotah (49b) BECAME MORE AND MORE DEBASED; AND THERE WAS NONE TO ASK, NONE TO INQUIRE. UPON WHOM IS IT FOR US TO RELY? UPON OUR FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN. IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF THE MESSIAH1 INSOLENCE WILL INCREASE AND HONOUR DWINDLE;2 THE VINE WILL YIELD ITS FRUIT [ABUNDANTLY] BUT WINE WILL BE DEAR;3 THE GOVERNMENT WILL TURN TO HERESY4 AND THERE WILL BE NONE [TO OFFER THEM] REPROOF; THE MEETING-PLACE [OF SCHOLARS] WILL BE USED FOR IMMORALITY; GALILEE WILL BE DESTROYED, GABLAN5 DESOLATED, AND THE DWELLERS ON THE FRONTIER WILL GO ABOUT [BEGGING] FROM PLACE TO PLACE WITHOUT ANYONE TO TAKE PITY ON THEM; THE WISDOM OF THE LEARNED6 WILL DEGENERATE, FEARERS OF SIN WILL BE DESPISED, AND THE TRUTH WILL BE LACKING; YOUTHS WILL PUT OLD MEN TO SHAME, THE OLD WILL STAND UP IN THE PRESENCE OF THE YOUNG, A SON WILL REVILE HIS FATHER, A DAUGHTER WILL RISE AGAINST HER MOTHER, A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW, AND A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD;7 THE FACE OF THE GENERATION WILL BE LIKE THE FACE OF A DOG,8 A SON WILL NOT FEEL ASHAMED BEFORE HIS FATHER. SO UPON WHOM IS IT FOR US TO RELY? UPON OUR FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN.

Sounds of silence or who is the 800 lb gorilla in the room?

One of the incredible things about this whole scandal is how it has morphed into a nightmare that few understand what is ordinary sickness and what are cancerous cells that have taken over the identity of healthy cells. Who is simply lying and who are the double agents who are disseminating false information. In addition should we be concerned about what happened - a disgusting sex and bribery scandal of a sick individual or the corruption of the rabbinical elite which threatens the foundation concept of orthodoxy - emunas chachomim, Or should we be obsessing primarily over the atom bomb which was tossed in the issue of geirus and Jewish identity? Alternatively should we worry about the glee of triumph of Guma Aguiar or the despair and disappointment of Tom Kaplan?

There are things which should be obvious at this point but they are not 1) the tapes are valid. They were not fabricated or synthesized. Despite this obvious fact, there are major players in this drama who still insist that the recordings are false - synthesized by a billionaire who has access to the best experts in the world. I recently took down a post which I realized was a plant by the defenders of Tropper - that insisted that the tapes are forgeries. 2) there are hundreds of people who benefited from Tropper - who were engaged in the most disgusting chanifah - who now step over this broken man lying in the gutter while holding their noses - refusing to even acknowledge him or even mentioning that they knew him.

These people must stop ignoring him and there past association - as if nothing happened except a little rain.

WHERE ARE THE SCREAMS OF MORAL OUTRAGE FROM OUR RABBINICAL LEADERS?

WHY IS EJF GIVEN A FREE PASS TO CONTINUE PAYING OUT LARGE SUMS THAT CORRUPT OUR RELIGOUS COMMUNITY - WITHOUT ANY REVIEW OR OVERSIGHT?

WHY IS THE GREATEST CHILLUL HASHEM OF OUR TIMES IGNORED AND THOSE WHO MENTION IT ARE SILENCED?

Shulchan Aruch: Principle of self-defense & beating others to stop sin

Shulchan Aruch(C.M. 421:13): Two people who are beating each other… if one started the fight then the victim has to the right to hit the assailant in order to save himself. This principle of self defense applies also to harassment and abuse…If Reuven hit Shimon and Shimon hit Reuven in return and then the wife of Reuven came and grabbed Shimon and he removed her hand from him and hit her – Shimon is exempt. (Look at C.M. 424 when a husband and wife are hitting each other.). However it has to be evaluated when Shimon could have saved himself from Reuven’s wife with a small beating because if he used excessive force he is obligated. (This question is only in regarded to paying the four types of payment because Shimon has the status of hitting her inadvertently. However Shimon is exempt from paying for shame because he did not intent to embarrass her. Therefore if someone hit another person and the victim responded by calling the assailant a mamzer he is exempt as it says in Devarim 19:6). Similarly if someone called another person a thief and the victim responded by saying you lie like a mamzer or calls him a mamzer he is exempt for that reason) Similarly the halacha is that a man who see another Jew hitting someone and he is not able to save the victim without hitting the assailant – he is permitted to hit the assailant in order to stop him from sinning. Rema This right to hit someone to stop them from sinning also applies for anyone under your control that you see is sinning. It is permitted to hit him and chastise him to stop him from sinning and it is not necessary to get permission from a beis din. (Terumas HaDeshen #218).

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שולחן ערוך (חושן משפט תכא:יג):  שנים שחבלו זה בזה, ... אבל אם התחיל האחד, השני פטור, שיש לו רשות לשני לחבול בו כדי להציל עצמו. וכן הוא לענין גידופים וביושים, המתחיל פורע הקנס (הגהות מרדכי דקידושין). ראובן שהכה לשמעון, וחזר שמעון ובא להכותו לראובן, ובאתה אשתו של ראובן והחזיקה בשמעון, והוא נתק ידיו והכה אותה, פטור (מהרי"ו סימן כ"ח). (וע"ל סוף סימן תכ"ד איש ואשה שחבלו זה בזה). ומיהו צריך אומד אם היה יכול להציל עצמו בחבלה מועטת וחבל בו הרבה, חייב. (ודוקא לענין חבלה שמשלם לו ד' דברים, דהוי כאדם המזיק בשוגג; אבל פטור על הבושת, דהא לא כיון לבייש. ולכן המכה חבירו, וחבירו קראו ממזר, פטור, שנאמר: והיה כי יחם לבבו וגו' (דברים יט:ו). וכן אם אחד קרא לחבירו גנב, והוא אומר לו: אתה מכזב כממזר, או קראו ממזר, פטור מהאי טעמא) (מהרי"ו סימן כ"ח וסימן ס'). וכן הדין באדם הרואה אחד מישראל מכה חבירו, ואינו יכול להצילו אם לא שיכה המכה, יכול להכותו, כדי לאפרושי מאיסורא. הגה: וכן מי שהוא תחת רשותו, ורואה בו שהוא עושה דבר עבירה, רשאי להכותו ולייסרו כדי להפרישו מאיסור, ואין צריך להביאו לבית דין (ת"ה סי' י"ח /רי"ח/).