Tuesday, December 22, 2009

EJF fights to stay alive or 3 Belzers & a Blogger trying to understand Daas Torah


I just found out today that some of my most devoted readers are Belzers - even though the vast majority don't understand English. I received a call today from a person claiming to be a employee of Hidabroot  - the Belzer kiruv organization. He mentioned  that he just discovered my blog Daas Torah - even though his wife had to translate it for him since his English is poor. He was interested in my halachic knowledge concerning geirus and kiruv. He noted that his organization is closely associated with EJF. The conversation was strange - a Belzer is calling me up concerning my halachic views on geirus and kiruv because of my blog?! I asked him if knew about Tropper and he said he had heard of Tropper but  was not directly involved with him but was aware that my Blog is very concerned with him. This was really strange. I asked him do you know the scandal with Tropper and he said that he didn't. When I told him he expressed shock but said that really didn't interest him. He wanted to understand my objections to EJF and the halachic reasons. I said are you aware that the Bedatz strongly condemned EJF and he said no. He said we would never do anything that he knew directly went against the Bedatz. I asked him about the ad that Hidabroot runs every year that asks for all mixed couples who are bothered by their situations or those who know them to get in contact with them. I said the Bedatz is concerned about prosyletization and this ad is the classic example. His response is that there was no such ad. I said why don't you come over to my house and I'll show it to you along with the Bedatz's letter and you can hear Rav Reuven criticizing the position of EJf. He said fine and asked if he  could bring a distinguished talmid chachom along who was an expert on geirus.

Two hours later three Belzer's knocked on my door. Really friendly fellows. I played Rav Reuven' recording. "That is exactly our policy at Hidabroot. We never go after goyim or intermarried couples. They are always referred to us by Rabbis after they have come one their own accord." I said well what about your ads and I displayed it on my computer. It clearly is proselytizing and mentions nothing about rabbis or kiruv organization providing recommendations. Their answer was that this was an old ad that had long ago been changed. I said but this has run for the last two years. "On no that is an old ad - we don't proselytize. In fact there has never been any  seminar  that we are associated with here in Israel that tries to attract goyim or had attendees that have not been associated with a kiruv program for 1 or 2 years.

In short we had a great session where we all agreed that proselytization was wrong and that only when dealing with a tinok shebisha who didn't know intermarriage was bad would they allow  him to participate - after he came willingly. (Of intest they brought a laptop which they asked to connect to my wifi which I did).

Then out of left field they asked me why a blog named Daas Torah was full of shmutz and Tropper's sexual scandal. I explained that it was important that people know what had happened and that this would motivate people to take it seriously and do something about it.  "But how can you have a blog called Daas Torah" - they said in Hebrew since they didn't know English. We have people who are seriously involved in Torah and they go to your blog to see Daas Torah and they get shmutz.  They said they have received a lot of complaints about my blog from Belzer chasidim. This was really surprising. Non English speakers being corrupted by my blog because they thoroughly read through every posting and all the comments and they discover to their horror that it wasn't Hamodiah. After I tried  explaining several times I said lets go ask Rav Sternbuch - whom they had never met. I called his home and was told he was leaving for the 2 minute walk to shul for mincha. We piled into their car and found Rav Sternbuch climbing the stairs  leading from his apartment to the street. I introduced them and told them to ask their question - which they did. Rav Sternbuch explained that of course there was no need to discuss shmutz in regards to Tropper.They looked at me with smug grins and said we told you so. I tried explained to Rav Sternbuch what and why  I was doing because he had never expressed such concerns before - but he just said , "Why mention disgusting things "and went in for Mincha. They talked for few mintues with Rav Sternbuch's gabbai and they left with a condscending, "Don't forget to take off all that shmutz - it is Daas Torah right after mincha because you follow Daas Torah." I went in to daven confused.

After Mincha, I went to ask Rav Sternbuch for clarification. He said, "I thought they were asking whether they needed to read about the shmutz. I didn't realize they were talking about the articles that you are mefarsem. You can use your own judgment about what you write. Just don't be explicit about the nature of the disgusting activities. But there is no problem to say that Tropper is a menuval or a sheigitz (Megila 25) and in fact it should be publicized that he is a menuval."

So now we have a situation where they will claim that I don't listen to Daas Torah when they go to read my blog and see all the postings about Tropper are still there - which was clearly the actual reason they came to see me. In fact, however, Rav Sternbuch thought he was answering a question about what they should do - not what I should be doing.  He felt it was irrelevant and bitul Torah for these chasidim to be reading about the depravity of Tropper when it was enough they knew  about it. On the other hand he felt that there was a to'eles for me to be mefarsum the  nature of the scandal. The lesson is clear - don't ask a posek an important question when he is rushing to daven mincha - unless you can ask him to clarify it afterwards.

34 comments :

  1. PS: this example seems quite telling about how you can read what you like into the response of a Talmid chacham...

    I have the impression that far too many T'shuvot are quoted without context.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Barauch Hashem, Rabbi Eidensohn your blog exist and exposing the meforsim shel sheker. Its also wonderful that there is a venue where one can have access to a godal like HRav Sternbach Shlita who is not afraid to speak the truth. As for the belzer Chasidim im suprized that they are involved in EJS - as Reb Arela was such kodesh v tohor. Thank you for all your good work

    ReplyDelete
  3. I wanted to comment about the readers who got unsettled about the face shot of the woman involved with the menuvel.

    The issur of histaklus means staring, not looking. As long as you don't focus after glancing the picture when a woman is dressed tzniusdik, there is no issur.

    ReplyDelete
  4. This is another example of why our yeshivot need to put more emphasis on teaching halacha. Without a strong root basis in halacha it is too easy to derive a standard of morality that is not based upon on our Holy Torah.

    The Torah does not beat around the bush when it comes to matters of sexual impropriety.

    Let's take for example the story of Pinchas and Zimri, to whom Leib Tropper has been compared:

    Just before Parshat Pinchas begins, Israelite men have begun sleeping with foreign women. These relations have brought the Israelites to worship foreign gods and have caused, in response, a Divine plague to break out in the Israelite camp. God and Moshe then command the Israelites to slaughter the idol worshipers among the Israelites.

    In the very next verse, we learn that Zimri ben Salu (an Israelite) and Kozbi bat Tzur (a Midianite) publicly display their relationship as Zimri takes Kozbi back to his tent to sleep with her.

    Our parshah opens with the conclusion of the bloody tale as Pinchas slaughters Zimri and Kozbi and ends the plague. (Bamidibar 25).

    From Rabbi Aryeh Carmel ztl of Manchester:


    "Why was he called Zimri ben Salu?

    Zimri - because he became white like a beaten egg (beitzah muzereth) [from seminal emissions] and Salu because he called attention to (silsel) the sins of his family.

    Why was she called Cozbi? She was faithless (kazvah) to her father [by consorting with Zimri].

    Another explanation is that she said to her father “kos bi” (slaughter through me) this people Israel”, and indeed she did, as the plague that ravaged through the nation claimed the lives of 24,000 Israelites.

    Hashem vindicates Pinchas’ action and praises him greatly, saying that he turned back His wrath and stopped the plague. "

    Now, how many of your faithful readers would censor this parsha of our Holy Torah as "smut"?

    The story of Leib Tropper, a modern day Zimri should be taught freely and publicly. We do not have any standard of morality other than what is in our Torah. Any standard other than that of our Torah is by definition a foreign service (Avodah Zara).

    May Hashem Bless you and your family abundantly on account of your zeal to protect Hashem's Holy Name and Klal Yisrael's Holy seed.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Rav Sternbuch could have been tailoring his answer because they are chassidim.

    Chassidishe skip Seder Noshim in yeshiva and when Rav Schach sent Rav Stern to give an explicit shiur in ishus to yungerleit here, the Chassidishe, especially the Gerrer, exploded with anger.

    Chassidim are not interested in these topics.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hmmm quite strange as you say that they were so concerned. shows you that tropper has all kinds of old favors he is calling on, I wouldn't be surprised if somehow they were connected to tropper. make no mistake, I know this man very well, and know the underling rabbeyem he surrounds himself with,they told me that right now he is licking his wounds like a dog, and trying to "re-invent himself" Whenever tropper had an issue with a baal tsuvah/ bochur who tropper asked to "jump", and the baal tshuva didn't immediately ask "how high" tropper in his paranoid ways, would immediately reach for the phone, and call that person's boss (tropper would find jobs for some bochurim, so that he held over their heads that he controlled their jobs) fiance,(tropper would arrange shidduchim for bochurim, and not allow or be very unhappy if a bochur found someone through a non tropper source, again this was all about the control factor, if he made the shidduch, he could control you) and besmirch that person. He would then secretly and slowly start a secret campaign to tell other bochurim and ballah botim (the few that their were in the yeshiva) that said baal tshuva is (insert some made up issue tropper would make up here)and tell them that the bochur was in cheirem. He would wait until the bochur found out on his own by his surroundings that he was in cheirem. In some cases he would have the secretary of the yeshiva (he also controlled her and made her work basically for free, what did he have over her? you guessed it, she was a ger, he magayered her, and she was from france, so he promised her sponsorship, which never panned out) type out a letter to that bochur, telling him that they are no longer welcome to learn or daven there.

    Make no mistake about it, in all his years in kiruv, for every one person who he makereved to yiddishkeit, he probably turned off 10 off of yiddishkeit forever.

    Now through his latest actions, who knows how many thousands he turned off from true torah yiddishkeit. He must hang up his black hat and never be allowed to be in a position of power in the Jewish community ever again.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Wait -- if the Jewish spouse is not a tinok shebisha, one is not allowed to help the non-Jewish spouse convert? Why? Let's say a woman goes off the derech as a young adult, marries a non-Jew and then 10 years later, wants to become a ba'al teshuvah and her husband wants to convert. Is it forbidden to help the non-Jew convert? Heaven forbid! This would force them to divorce, which could be a great tragedy if they love one another and have children, etc.

    ReplyDelete
  8. To elaborate by means of analogy: When two non-observant Jews are married, and one decides to become a ba'al teshuvah, some rabbis will tell the ba'al teshuvah to divorce their spouse and find a frum spouse, even when they are happily married. The approach of Rav Shalom Arush of the Chut Shel Chesed yeshiva is the opposite -- as he argues in his well-known marital guide for men, B'Gan HaShalom. I think this is the wiser option, also in the case of conversion, when the non-Jew wants to convert and the Jew is willing to make teshuvah. Rav Arush's many stories on the subject illustrate the wisdom of his approach quite convincingly.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Im not sure how R'Sternbuck can give you a heter to report something which is Lashon Horah at best. Or maybe theres only Gehenom for geirut issues, but for lashon horah?!!no way.
    Sir did you ever hear of a sefer called Chofetz Chaim?
    Did it ever enter your mind that you might suffer for this in the world to come?

    ReplyDelete
  10. "But there is no problem to say that Tropper is a menuval or a sheigitz (Megila 25) and in fact it should be publicized that he is a menuval."

    Why not leave it at that and indeed take off and permit no further discussion?

    ReplyDelete
  11. They were going to hear what they wanted to hear.

    ReplyDelete
  12. You should post this article now in Hebrew.

    ReplyDelete
  13. See the excellent guide for asking questions of rabbinical authorities by Rabbi Yakov Horowitz


    http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=186&ThisGroup_ID=238&ID=MostViewed&Type=Article

    ReplyDelete
  14. Recipients and PublicityDecember 22, 2009 at 10:47 AM

    Here is the TRUTH: Belz is worse than Tropper!

    Some known reasons:

    *Tropper is VERY close to the present controversial Belzer Rebbe, who broke away from the BADATS and for which he was excoriated by Satmar until this day and by those who follow the Eidah HaChareidis, that is why Tropper was able to scorn the BADATS too.

    *When Tropper was unsure if he should wed his second newly-minted BT wife-to-be who knew zilch about Yiddishkeit versus Tropper's supposed "ge'onus" he went to none other than the Belzer Rebbe for an "eitzah" what to do and the Rebbe told him to marry her in order to be "mekarev him (Tropper) to the inyan (of kiruv)" -- so the Belzer Rebbe instead of taking responsibilty for the UNHOLY mess that arose from Tropper's marriage to his new wife who has no moral scruples, is coming to accuse you of the REAL SHMUTS he knowingly gave his misguided counsel to when he blessed and guided the union between Leib and Leba Tropper that has now been revealed as a den of iniquity!

    *The Belzers only care about how much MONEY can be made from the "baal teshuva" industry. The Belzer Rebbe went to the late Lubavitcher Rebbe and this is one tricks he envies the Lubavitchers for, how they can make so much money from BTs, so the Belzer Rebbe launched a couple of his own hald-baked kiruv set-ups in Israel and then sent out hundreds of his followers all over the world to collect money from other Chasidim even though they knew zero about kiruv but donated to the Belzers all the same on the say so of the Belzer Rebbe, and on that basis that went not to Belzer kiruv but to building the greater Belzer expanding empire.

    *While the Belzer Rebbe does welcome a few BTs into his community who commit to being 100% Belzers only, and its probably sincere, the real bottom line is that hooking up with Tropper must have had benefits too and in fact the HIDABROOT organization is just a front for Belz to collect donations without using the name Belz. In all certainsty naive billionaire Tom Kaplan is funding HIDABROOT!! True Belzers would never put a cent into such "hevel" on the Internet. oh yeah, so they have to run a seminar, what can they do, for that they kept their hands "clean" and let Tropper do the real dirty work for them of deaaling with the shiksa, and my how he dealt with them as we now know for sure.

    *The Belzers used their trademark tricks here. They acted like perfect con men and sprung a trap to trick you worthy of Tropper himself who would come up with stupid "terutzim" why Rav Shternbuch really "supports" Tropper's/Roni's krumme arguments to justify proselytization. Beware of Belzers bearing supsicious software or anything for that matter, they are evil and not as "innocent" as they act!

    *ANY Belzer involved in kiruv work knows Tropper 100%, in fact not just knows Tropper but they LOVE Tropper. They have long known of his sexual failings. They were warned about this over 20 years ago again and again and again years ago by R Ezriel Tauber the Holocaust survivor and writer, who knows about Tropper well, who has always been one of Tropper's most vocal critics and has warned anyone who would listen that Tropper is a no'ef (philanderer).

    ReplyDelete
  15. Recipients and PublicityDecember 22, 2009 at 10:48 AM

    Here is the TRUTH: Belz is worse than Tropper! Continued.

    *R Ezriel Tauber himself has some family connected with Belz and he WARNED them explicitly already 20 (TWENTY!!!) years ago to stay away from Tropper and not invite him to any Belz sponsored kiruv events, such as the BELZER Sinai Heritage Center in the Empire State Building in Manhattan that the Belzers ran about twenty years ago for some time, on orders from the Belzer Rebbe for the purpose of building a base to raise money he needed to build the huge Belzer shull in Yerushalayim. Once the shull was finished they simply shut down their kiruv center in Manhattan and dumped all the hundreds BT's that were connected to it over the ten years of its existenece to fend for themselves. Like dumping orphans out on the street like garbage once they cannot help you in your vast fraudulent fund-raising scheme. These are all known PROVABLE facts!

    *The Belzers are the sworn allies of Tropper so it's natural that they do NOT come to attack Tropper and renounce him and HIS REAL SHMUTS, but to show up, act dumb on everything, deny everything, but come like gangsters to do one thing, do a RUB OUT job on you with a smile. They function like a well-honed group of confidence trickstrs and hoodlums and not one word coming from them can be trusted.

    *They are NO better than Tropper's "Sam Abady" lawyer, in fact they are far worse and much more dangerous because you let your guard down since they look "pious" like the evil angel that attacked Yaakov Avinu who the Talmud says "ketalmid chochem nidmeh lo" ("appeared to Yaakov like a FRAUDULENT Talmaid "Chochme'") and when jacob let his guard down the angel ripped out the sinews of his thighs (in effect trying to "emasculate" him) and ensure that he become impotent, which is what the Belzers are doing now to help Tropper and themselves to try to "shut you up" in the hope that the trail of corruption and immorality surrounding Troppper will not be traced back to their front door to.

    *Rav Yonasan David of Yeshiva Pachad Yitzchok in Har Nof, Jerusalem has long-declared "ALL Belz to be unkosher" ("gantz Belz is treif") because they used the same underhanded tricks and deceptions to STEAL his land where he was going to build Rav Hutner's yeshiva from him without paying the huge amount of monetary damages ("hefsed momen") back to him. Rav David lost his land and his money to the Belzers and was forced to build his Pachad Yitzchok yeshiva in Har Nof instead. He has only the geatest contempt for anything to do with Belz.

    *The Belzer Rebbe himself has been criticized for slave-driving his chasidim for money in order to build his empire. It is also known he suffers from his own delusions of grandeur and a worrisome messianic complex.

    Next time, when the Belzers come calling, tell them to get lost, they are as bad and even worse than the Tropper plague because they enabled him as they lie to your face, as you can now see for yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  16. When they propose to change the name of the blog, I think they are not completely wrong. Not because of what they call "shmutz", but if you take an inventory of the posts made during the last two years, you will see that they treat a wide range of themes: Psychology, US-Politics, Israel immigration politics, Sexual abuse in the jewish and non-jewish communities, judicial errors, law or law philosophy in a general way, and also, sometimes, the opinions of our sages.

    Why do you not choose a name that reflects all the richness of the themes you treat?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Do you think that your three guests were representatives of these (in) famous "mishmeret ha tzniut" Brigades?

    Did they threaten you in any way? (Or will this be left for stage 2?)

    ReplyDelete
  18. Leah said...

    Do you think that your three guests were representatives of these (in) famous "mishmeret ha tzniut" Brigades?

    Did they threaten you in any way? (Or will this be left for stage 2?)
    ==============
    No they were very friendly and in no way physically imposing. Their statements just didn't add up. So no I don't think they were from the modesty squad.

    Whether they will try harder - I don't know - but I am hereby issuing a warning that anybody who thinks of trying should be forwarned it won't be pleasant for them.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I was the first Lakewood comment and I ashamed of the boorish comments from my neighbor.

    Perhaps Rav Eidensohn should post on the sidebar the mareh makom for the Chazon Ish allowing discussion of people like Tropper.

    There was also a transcript posted on some blogs of Rav S.F. Mendlowitz in the journal Licht permitting the publicizing against corrupt rabbonim but the sefer is out of print.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Ezriel Tauber is not one to talk either. He was behind a real estate investment scam in the 1970s in which many Lakewood yungerleit lost a lot of money. He is a mesarev for refusing to appear in beis din and of course never paid them back.

    There are also rumors about him in another area besides genevos. And when he runs around in his fancy bekishe with the Hungarian feinshmecker style velvet strip he will try to farkoyf his seforim to you by pushing them in your face to pressure you to buy them.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Years ago I met Rabbi ET when I spent a Shabbos near Ohr Sameach. Being young and 'foolish', I excitedly went over to him to tell him that I read his book and to thank him for trying to help Klal Yisroel. He basically sneered at me and after a sarcastic 'Oh, yeah?', motioned me to get loss.

    It is TRAGIC how many people we have in our communities, especially 'at the top' that behave so shabbily to others.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Lakewood: "when Rav Schach sent Rav Stern to give an explicit shiur in ishus to yungerleit here, the Chassidishe, especially the Gerrer, exploded with anger."

    A few comments (unless we are referring to completely different incidents).

    1. The guy's name was Klein, not Stern.

    2. He only claimed he was sent by R' Schach. No one confirmed this claim beforehand (or after, to my knowledge).

    3. It wasn't just the chassidim or Gerrers. RAMK told me about a half year or so after the incident that it was "100% nisht b'seder", and that it showed that a guy who gets too involved in such things, even leshaim shomayim, loses proper perspective.

    ReplyDelete
  23. To Lakewood @ 3:36,

    Can you please cite the specific volume/issue in the journal "Licht" you are refering to? I have access to the yiddishe licht and would very much like to see the transcript of R' S.F. Mendelowitz. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  24. As for the name debate, as I understand it, the concept of Daas Torah refers to the supposed expertise of great rabbis in fields outside of torah learning, so a blog like this that deals in multifarious themes is in fact very aptly named.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Recipients and Publicity is finally showing his true colors, that is hate. I will not debate all of his accusations; however, I will just say that Belz had the right, according to all rational thinking people, to form their own Bedaz because they were never really allowed into the Edah.

    ReplyDelete
  26. I was in yeshiva at the time. This was about 18 years ago and it was Rav Stern. No one had a problem with the shmuz except for the Chassidim who also were complaining about R' Aron Kotler's shita on cholov stam butter by breakfast, R' Aron's shita of waiting 5 hours & 31 minutes after fleishigs as too short and goyim *looking* at *sealed* bottles of Kedem wine made of tinted glass.

    ReplyDelete
  27. I was also in BMG at the time & attended, it was indeed about 18 years ago (in the Cheder dining room), and I have a tape of the "shmues". It was by R' Tzvi Klein.

    Most of the people who attended were stunned.

    The sign that announced the upcoming shiur was rather cryptic and I remember telling someone "he's obviously not going to give a chosson shmues to the whole yeshiva", the joke being the idea of even contemplating such a thing.

    And again, R' Malkiel told me personally that it was "100% nisht b'seder", and he is no chosid.

    ReplyDelete
  28. I did not attend because I was a bochur and the official yeshiva sign said it was for avreichim only.

    It definitely was Rav Stern according to the mouths of dozens of people I heard tummeling about it. I did not hear a single Litvishe guy complain. Maybe there was more than one shmuz?

    Maybe R' Malkiel wasn't crazy about it because of the uproar from the chassidim and because the BMG shita in general is to be extremely vague about ishus. And R' Malkiel bifrat is influenced by Beis Hatalmud which is veiter very supressed.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Recipients and PublicityDecember 23, 2009 at 11:23 AM

    "Lakewood said...Ezriel Tauber is not one to talk either..."

    RaP: The point is not to defend or attack Ezriel Tauber, he may be all the things you say, but it is KNOWN that he was the one to openly denounce Tropper to anyone withing earshot before anyone else did going back 25 years. Take it for what it's worth.

    "Joseph Nerenberg said...He basically sneered at me and after a sarcastic 'Oh, yeah?', motioned me to get loss."

    RaP: Exactly, you were young and foolish with a fragile ego. What you describe is no big deal. Maybe Tauber was thinking of ways to deal with the Tropper menace while you were expecting him to gush for you. Get over it, nothing bad happened to you, unless you expect a medal each time you shake the hand of a better known person.

    "Defender of Belz said... Recipients and Publicity is finally showing his true colors, that is hate. I will not debate all of his accusations; however, I will just say that Belz had the right, according to all rational thinking people, to form their own Bedaz because they were never really allowed into the Edah."

    RaP: NO! Now it is YOU, whoever you are that are showing your true colors. It is not "hate" to point out that the young Belzer Rebbe broke away from the Eidah HaChareidis and their BADATZ simply because he did not want to be under their authority. The Satmars were enraged at him for this and for another reason, that the Belzer Rebbe was childless for a long time, and it is known in the Chasidishe velt that he went to Rav Yoel Teitelbaum the original Satmar Rebbe and BEGGED his copiously for a brocha to have children until eventually the Satmar Rebbe ztk'l zy'a gave him the brocha and soon after the Belzer Rebbetzin gave birth to their one and only son.

    So the Satmars were doubly outraged for the Belzer Rebbe's lack of hakoras hatov and for his chutzpa in breaking away from the Eidah to which Belz had belonged until he engineered the breakaway.

    To this day there is war between Satmar and Belz! This has nothing to do with "hate" because these are facts and reality. And this is the crowd that Tropper runs to for "help" to fight Rabbi Eidensohn with deception, lies and tricks worthy of the Mafia. Shame on you for "defending" the indefensible!

    "I will not debate all of his accusations;"

    RaP: Why not? Oh, and they are not "accusations", they are facts! Notice also how you do not condemn Tropper and his immoral evils, even at this stage, but you seek ways to spin the discussion around about bubkes that have nothing to do with Tropper and his known connections with the Belzer Rebbe and the Belzer Rebbe's LOVE of Tropper whom he calls "Leibel", and how the belzers are trying to defend themselves with pulling despicable underhanded shtik against Rabbi Eidensohn and how the Belzers are making believe as if there is no radioactive king kong size Chillul Hashem from Tropper and EJF now.

    Maybe you can fool yourself, but please stop trying to fool the world.

    ReplyDelete
  30. RaP, I'm surprised at you. If Tauber or anyone acting as a Torah personality sneers at someone like that it is a horrible thing. Such behavior is the keneged the Torah, sets a terrible example and making someone feel bad is from the worst aveiros.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Recipients and PublicityDecember 23, 2009 at 4:00 PM

    Archie: Many gedolim I have met sneer at people, get real.

    Where does it say in the Torah that you have to have a fake Colgate smile pasted on your face all the time? Parents must yell at kids sometimes, and rabbis "yell" at people by sneering. Peoeple live in aculture today where you expect celebrities to be smiling all the time, like the Queen of England who can do it all day long. It's fake and not required. Be your true self. In the course of a day or in a week or month, some gedolim have temper tantrums (Ive seen it), warts, they are bald, fat and smell (especially after Hakafos on Simchas Torah and Purim), they don't smile (especially on Tisha Be"'v and when mourning for something or someone) and they even sneer at people, guess why, they are part of the human race.

    What if a person is in tza'ar? What if they an upset stomach? What if they are suffering from something, they must grin and bear it? People are only human.

    So not smiling is NOT an aveira. Take a look at Tropper. He knew how to smile plenty, and so what? Maybe if he was smiling less and growling more, he would have fooled and lured in less victims into his web of deceipt and moral turpitude.

    This discussion is stupid, why are you pursuing it. Go ask Ezriel tauber why he SUPPOSEDLY "sneered" at an anonymous poster who may be planting stories to make Tropper look good.

    In this climate of Tropper's public demise and his known attention to blogs and trying to sneak in pro-Tropper bits and pieces here and their by the damage control Tropper team, who knows.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I WOULD SUGGEST that besides not asking an impotrtant question right before mincha that a Rav not answer such a question then also.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Did Rabbi Sternbuch approve the posts of RAP?

    ReplyDelete
  34. RaP, well R' Shammai did say, "Receive each person with a cheerful countenance" (ie, smile at everyone.)(Pirkei Avot)

    "Most people are full of pain and worry and all kinds of
    troubles, and they find it impossible to speak out what is in their hearts. Someone who comes
    with a smiling face can literally give them fresh life. This is a very great thing. When you make
    another person happy you are literally giving new life to a Jewish soul." Likutei Eitzot (Joy).

    There may be no mitzvah to have a fake smile on your face, but there is a mitzvah not to hurt with words, onaat devarim. And sneering without words may well be a product of anger or arrogance, which are the opposite of Torah values. Even if one is experiencing pain, as you describe, making it difficult to be polite or pleasant, it seems that one should still make every effort to avoid hurting or annoying others with one's behavior. One would certainly hope that a gadol or tzaddik would have the self-control and sensitivity to make such an attempt.

    "It is a great mitzvah always to be happy!" Likutei Moharan II:24.

    ReplyDelete

ANONYMOUS COMMENTS WILL NOT BE POSTED!
please use either your real name or a pseudonym.