Lol, such idiotism from the rabbi who bans everything, from the kosher switch to the shabes and yomtov mode on stoves Looks to me like everyone else who hasn't written a letter views tamars marriage as kosher Miller and gestetner vs all the gedolei yisroel
The problem with this, even if it is true, is that he accepts the judgement of Gedolei Hora'ah. Hence, should RSK put pen to paper, it implies that the heter would be accepted.
Why can rav nota Greenblatt not be relied upon No Beis din is needed, when reb Moshe feinstein was matir, all he did was wrote a teshuva No bet din convened It a halachick question, and rav Greenblatt is as qualified as rav miller
Unfortunate for Tamar, the Kaminetskys and R Greenblatt It is simply not true that anyone who has so far not made a public comment approves
Nor is it the fanatic right wing chareidim vs everyone else. There are many Center and Left wing Chareidim as well as Modern Orthodox rabbis who are also shocked by the realization that an eishes ish just got married without a Get with the mistaken guidance of those who should have known better.
I heard that there should be a letter signed by others in another week.
Please as your local Orthodox rabbi what he thinks and whether he is willing to sign a protest letter.
My sources indicate that Rav Miller is in fact against Tamar Epstein's remarriage without a Get. However this looks as if it were a transcript of an oral answer which someone photo-shopped a signature.
So the word " alleged" is describing the physical letter - not the views expressed
Rav Greenblatt unfortunately relied on inaccurate information that was fed him and which he didn't bother investigating himself. He in fact has stated that it is chutzpah to question information provided by the Kaminestkys.
Can someone possibly call Rabbi Miller and verify whether it is forged or not? Presumably he is aware of the letter, and hasnt come out saying it is forged...
Eddie - writing a teshuva is not a heter - it merely provides a transparent window to observe what has happened and why.
In this case seriously flawed information was accepted as true by the Kaminetskys and Rav Greenblatt accepted it because the Kaminestekys said it was true. Unfortunately for all concern it is not true. They all should have taken time to validate it with independent experts who consulted with both sides - elementary halacha - but they didnt'bother.
My understanding is that the letter above is genuine not because I saw it but because a prominent posek called me up and read part of it to me with his comments.
At the time Rabbi Miller signed other very prominent rabbis signed as well, but it is all being held up because they want more signers. There are various groups of rabbis dealing with letters of protest, and because many rabbis are involved, and some of them are not available now, things are dragging on. One key rabbi is not available for a few weeks, but eventually, these letters will probably be released. I just spoke to a third rabbi who is working on a letter. But not tomorrow.
But eventually I have been told letters will be released. In the meanwhile, I and my brother are busy and lonely, but let's hope that more public letters will be released soon.
Again, I know that one of the groups already has some very powerful and internationally noted rabbis signing against Tamar's marriage. But they are waiting for even more to sign.
Nathan, My brother is right. People of all levels of Orthodoxy are shocked and pained by what Tamar did. The anger is building. One prominent YU rabbi called me and when he talked about Tamar he began to sputter. Some people have called me and called for public demonstrations. The anger buiilds, and at this point, the anger is fueled by this blog and my own torahhalacha.blogspot.com . But things are moving and heating up. It is now after many hours of pressure and research clear that the entire premise of the remarriage was completely wrong, and even a lie. Also, Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky signed a letter not to support Tamar's remarriage, and now we find that Rabbi Greenblatt is claiming that Gedolim told him that Tamar is not married and may remarry. That means most likely Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky, because what other person he thinks is a Gadol signed about this?
Nathan, It has happened. One prominent rabbi told me that Tamar's new children will be mamzerim. One group alone has now about seven prominent signers but they are holding them until more signers can be reached and affixed.
Well, it just got posted 45 minutes ago, so I wouldn't assume he has private investigators working that quick in finding things allegedly posted in his name.
Rofl, your logic is bopkes. They dug somewhere in the Negev near amudei Shlomo and found some copper wires, so it was established in Solomon's times they already had electricity. They also dug in gaza, but did not find any wires, therefore it is establaished that they had wireless with batteries. from the archives of Nathan's Hot Dogs
I didn't write a letter, does that mean I view it as kosher. Rabbi Heineman did not write this letter 2 weeks ago, does that mean he changed his mind? Those who did not write letters but are orally against this, are they liars or amnivalent? Learn some basic logic and then return to the adult conversation.
So I guess I'll rely on Nathan who said we could rely on his anonymous rabbi who said that we can rely on Rabbi Greenblatt ego days he's relying on an anonymous rabbi. Yeh, maybe I'll just wait.
Lol everyone know that rav miller has a agenda here, the he preside over any hetter He is so transparent He couldn't getbevem one other rabbi to sign with him As rabbi Blum said don't sign with him even on the aseret hadibrot
And have you ever heard expression of the Torah, Veim lo yagid venosso avono? Besides, מדשתקי רבנן שמע מינה דשקר היא. Veihave raya, harotse leshaker yarchik eduso. No such thing as Sod betoch Ta'alumo. If you have a reliable source, what have you got to hide?
Not the way it works. According to anyone who was at her first wedding, they all witnessed a man giving a ring to a woman saying the magic words. Then there were two people who witnessed them go into a yichud room together. Add in the fact that for several years, said woman was attempting to obtain a get, thus implicitly, if not explicitly, acknowledging the fact that she appeared to be married Fast forward ten years or so and a Rabbi marries this same woman to another man. Clearly according to halacha, said woman cannot be with a second man while still with the first. So unless the marrying rabbi has "something" (i.e. a psak or a tshuva) that allows him to counter what appeared to the world as a valid marriage, then the Rabbi has the obligation to make public his basis for doing so. He has that obligation whether or not a negative proclamation comes out because of the public appearances.
Your going to have to explain the line "Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky signed a letter not to support Tamar's remarriage, and now we find that Rabbi Greenblatt is claiming that Gedolim told him that Tamar is not married and may remarry"
No it doesn't. Private objections transmitted to individuals will have no impact on how the public views the issue. Only once prominent rabbonim publicly state their positions will it begin to have an impact.
Nathan, There is money and power involved in this case. That must be noted too. Even the Baltimor beis-din did not issue a Siruv against Tamar for refusing to attend. They may be the only party which acted fairly but they were unable to take such a basic step against her.
Seriously, these are dvorim haomdim berumo shel olam. Don't believe for one moment that he is not objective in this issue of Eishes ish and Mamzeirus. He does not have a horse in this race, no negius, no shoshvinus, no Yeshiva donations in the past, present or future. As has been mentioned, he said this orally, and his signature was affixated as boser shelo pogu. There is power in numbers, and the Tsunami of category 5 is in the mail!
Test balloons of kole delo posek, have been released to the public atmosphere by a viable Posek. Anyone short of being a BD musmach or BD meforsem, need not apply. Veyovo baal hashor veyaamid al shoro.
Nathan, You will forgive me but I know who signed with Rabbi Miller and they are top of the line. I don't know if they are on your level but maybe that is because they don't live in Gaza.
I talk to these people regularly and I am happy with my knowledge. You can imagine that nobody disagrees with this hideous episode, but I speak to people every day who are getting angrier and angrier. They want to do this and that, and by now, everyone knows the whole facts and that the whole thing is an invention and a lie. But you are right, that surely a faster response was called for, and I know the stories of the delay, but I am happy that people are fighting every day for hours to get things organized. I am not waiting for anyone, but I put out my material on my blog torahhalacha.blogspotl.com and I have mainly the halacha sources that shows that there is no way at all that any knowing Rov can permit Tamar to remarry. The material is on my website. Others came along and found out the insane claims of Shalom Kaminetsky how this and that person said that Aharon was insane. You have to be insane to believe any of this. But everyone involved in this mess had faith in the power of "Gedolim" to escape critiism. But they were wrong, big time. I am going to announce when Tamar has a child that the child is a mamzer, and I have asked the question to serioius rabbonim and poskim who completely agree.
First of all it has happened. There are now three groups that I know of who are working furiously to produce signatures of the senior rabbonim in several countries to declare that Tamar is living in sin and her children to be will be mamzerim. I hear various dates but I know one case where an unavoidable delay of twenty days occurred on the exact day they wanted to wrap things up. That happens.
Second of all, I don't rely on anybody when I know that the Shulchan Aruch and the poskim disagree. Ask Rabbi Greenblatt his source for this remarriage as I did. His response, "Gedolim" approved it. Who? Rabbi Kaminetsky. I know that Rabbi Kaminetsky is not an expert in Gittin, because he once asked me where in Shulchan Aruch it talks about how to write a name in a GET, something every Rosh Yeshiva should know beause they write kesubose. I have been quarreling with him for years about his statements to torment husbands that he never spoke to because he wanted to do a favor for their wives. He is far removed from Daas Torah. And who else is Rabbi Greenblatt's Gadol? Those working on this can't find anyone else. And they know all of the rabbis who are prone to these inventions, and they are not Gedolim.
Nosson Ha'azati alleges to have seen the "hetter" from the mysterious Shatz. If he's able to share the last line, maybe he can tell us more about the content?
A Freudian slip, מותרת האשה תמר עפשטין. How about Habetula, HaAlma? Maybe SHE was mekayem the mitzvo kmo shene'emar 'Vehoyiso meshugo mimareh einecho' and doesn't even know from Adam, toleh kileloso beacherim style.
Vehinei pesher hadovor. Lulei chorashtem be'eglosi, lo motsosem chidosi. The last two lines contain the conditions of Kibla heter miBD mforsam and haskomos gedolei hoiro'oh according to noson hoazes ponim miAza they have been met . As for bichsav, since it is besod and dvorim shebaal peh i ato reshoim lekosvom bichsav.
The one who was maatik the hetter for me is a bochur in the yeshiva of memfis He got cold feet and dosnt want me to put it up , I'm still working on it
Bet you dollars to doughnuts, that you are mimicking, monkey see monkey do, ma'asse kof bealma. As the saying goes, lech leAza. You sound like the Kat, and not the kind the gazans chew on. BTW while at it, why don't you tell your friend from 'mem' 'fis', he has no fis to stand on, cold or otherwise. What a meatball!
Af al pi roisi, veaf al gav lo roisi. Translation: A nose above the mouth I have seen, however, a nose on the shoulder I haven't seen. Leor haomur lemaala.... Translation: a nose without a Get and a nose on a Kohen. Nussele, you are visioning S.Z.'s chezyonot. U R A Fraud like nussen hoazosi.
I have seen the others, but they are nechbo el hakelim. Overnight, I will try to convince them to come out of their kelim lol. Yeah' right, overnight Kugel Or was it morgen noch'n Kugel.
Nussen, haksav, vehamichtov lo hoyo velo nivro. There are no details, nor body of any letter. Meshateh hu bochem. We just finished perek assoro yochsin, how did nussen pop back up again? Oloh mibavel veyorad leAza.
Call me a meatball from today till tomorrow But I happen to be the man in the know Monkey see monkey do It dosnt mean its not true This union is here to stay And miller should stay at bay Teshuva will come soon Maybe even by the morrow noon
Part of the hetter והנה קיבלנו מסמכים ממומחה שטיפל בו שנתיים קודם חתונתם מטעם שהיה נוגע אז, ושם כתוב שבעל סובל מאי זה דיסארדער, והאשה לא ידעה כלום מזה, כי הבעל העלים זאת, וכל בעיותיה בשלום בית נבעה ממחלתו זאת, לפי דעת המומחים, ומיד שנודע להאשה ממחלתו זו אמרה שלעולם לא תחזור לבעלה, כי יודעת שלמחלה זו אין שום רפואה ואין לה לקוות לשלום בית אתה, וכשנשאלו עשרה נשים יהודיות, היודעם בטיב המחלה אם היה נושאים בעל שיש לו דיסאדער זו, כולם אמרו בודאי שלא......
As I said the information that was relied on is false and has been verifed to be false by people directly involved as well as outside psychiatrists that weren't biased against the husband.
The heter is not valid according to any of the poskim who have been questioned.
As I have mentioned before this is the crux of the matter. Kiddushei taos requires that the husband have a prexisting condition - unknown to the wife before marriage - that is so horrible that most women could not live with it.
That is absolutely not true regarding Aharon Friedman. In fact it is so clear that Aharon could easily sue all those involved for libel and there is no question that he would win.
Is Rabbi Greenblatt prepared for a multimillion lawsuit against him? Are the Kaminetsky's? Perhaps Tamar and family won't be bothered paying 10 million dollars for the damage they have caused.
Finally we see a logical hetter And daas Torah, do u think rav Greenblatt is afraid of a lawsuit, he's a 90 year old gadol, and untouchable All that is left to say is שהזווג יעלה יפה, ויזכו לדורות ישרים מבורכים And arhon Friedman can eat his get
If the information they claim is the basis for the heter is talse - which it is - then the heter is no good.
Rabbi Greenblatt is not untouchable nor are the Kaminetskys
It doesn't realy matter who is afraid of a lawsuit but it does matter what the Judge thinks of this mess that they created by not following elementary halachic procedure.
Hmmm... Just a few questions my friend. Why does this letter NEED translation, why not in the original, and why not in it's entirety, is it also possible that it is in midst of fabrication hot of the press, and why does a mum godol need a heter more than what's written in the partial, was that mumche treating him for 2 years before their wedding a ROFEH, and how come after not having sholom bayis for so many years no other mumcheh was able to diagnose that particular disorder from her while telling her side of the story, will all other mumchim that AF shall go to as of now - suppose ten NEUTRAL ONES agree with the original mumche's diagnosis, does this original mumche that has dealt with his disorder labeled it as such yet back then, why was/is this kept a secret, why is this no more a secret, why is there a meilits beinoisom as with habucher hazetser mimemfiss, why aren't we privileged to see the dates on this letter, 've'im ken' 'why haven't those relevant parties responded to this AF saga before the kol kore's? And can you please explain the meaning of
מטעם שהיה נוגע אז...?
Would you mind if we ask AF whether these allegations and statements are true? Why when they were shopping around for signatures to sign the Heter AS IS, why didn't they want to disclose the witnesses/ mumchim and all? Veze rak miktsas shvocho befonov, and before we move on yovo baal hashor veyaamod al shoro, then we talk. And oh yes, just one more before we go, were those klep smitten by those hired KKK's an attempt to exercise exorcism to beat the devil/ruach ro'oh out of him as a last resort to heal him from this secret disorder?
Aharon doesn't need a Get, but he might give Tamar one, if she becomes more reasonable with visitation rights. My guess is that he will apply for a "hetter 100 rabbanim", and will be able to move on with his life. Meanwhile Tamar is really messed up. תצא מזה ומזה is no laughing matter!
Just a quick question. Would you allow your child to marry any of her future offspring from AF? It's interesting that you use the nickname "Ashdodi". It reminds me of the verse in Zechariah (9:6) וישב ממזר באשדוד.
Is this the best shliach BD they can put forth? Is this bochur the nosse kelim and safra dedayna. If he cannot even spell right, how did he get this job? And such gedolim call her ISHA? Didn't they just come up with a gevaldovne chidush of mekach lekach hetach petach back in time vehi batul?
You can rap cra. but cannot deliver the goods, 'bli tesha shittin' TF can do nottin, you release the letter tippin tippin, because you cannot even bekir mashtin, mezuyaf mitocho umigabo, why is she called HAISHO? Huh
Tfilas shav. Maybe if they keep their peace, they can marry chetsyom medabrim ashdoidis. Do you think after all these public notices, it can be kivan denitmeu nitmeu? BTW AF doesn't eat goat food.
Ad matay ata marbeh ba'alei mumim, psulim umamzerim beyisrael? Vein lonu lo Kohen godol, velo urim velo tumim ad sheyovo Eliyohu. Show us the goods, the letter in it's entirety!
I cant tell you if they're afraid of the One above. Only He knows that. But from the fact that this "hetter" is being hidden from the public, I can tell you that they're afraid of the בעלי הלכה of the generation, and how they will be skewered in the court of public opinion.
It wasn't a threat. He just wanted to share with you some of the stuff that he's been smoking lekavod the rebbe's yahrtzeit. L-rd Get me high.... http://video.yehudim.net/play.php?vid=234
Since your'e chewing Kat, beafariki tat shtayim, umitchalfot bePat paamayim, you disclosed us from the letter only shurot shtayim, vehabucher hazetzer in yeshiva with 'kollel' is 12, wallah, vehineh treiser, tnanash, esrei ushtayim, vagam metzaltzel bemetzaltayim. If it still doesn't add up, eat another piece of Kugel biyedayim
Don't work too hard, just post the whole thing. Whats'a matter, you afraido? Mostly, when people put up walls of firefighters isolating themselves, is for stalling for time and remain with an option the butler said it. Where is this, in Jewland? The butler did it:)
Very sad to read your blog Rabbi Eidensohn. What is clear is that you don't know who Rav Nota is and are not giving him the proper respect. Asking time and time again who is his gadol-daas torah- shows u have never met him. He is considered one of the biggest poskim in the dor especially even haezer. has dealt with these sort shaylos since the sixties, with Rav Moshe. Please do some research before writing unintelligent thing
הרבנים יושבים בחיבוק ידים, כי צריכים להתארגן להמלוה מלכות הבאים עלינו, וא"א לצפות שהם יעשו דבר, הם כקבוצה הכי רחוקים מהתורה ובעלי מידות רעות ומגונות , וקשה לעמוד לידם מריח הקשה של גאוה שנודף מהם, והם פוסעים על ראשי עם קודש, והלואי שיאבד זכרם,
Lubmen - you don't have the competence to reject what I have written. I am not questioning Rav Nota's greatness. That was never an issue.
It is Rav Nota himself who claimed that he was relying on unnamed gedolim. He takes no responsibility for the accuracy of the facts he paskened (and yes he is the source of the heter).
But he has made an elementary error in dealing with this case. He has relied totally on the information provided by the Kaminetskys without either independently investigating or even talking to Aharon Friedman before trashing him and labeling a person who is incapable of having a legitimate marriage. My objection is not mine alone but is the consensus of poskim who have been consulted in this matter.
His response has been that it is chutzpa to question the information and conclusion of the Kaminetskys. However what they provide him is a halacha issue but a psychological one.
Neither he nor the Kaminetskys understand modern psychology and the deep seated issues connected with its validity. This is a question of metzius - and they are wrong.
Are you claiming he is infallible? Not even Rav Moshe claimed infallibility.
Nathan - I don't understand why you are dribbling this "document" out - a couple lines at a time. Please simply photograph it and send me the jpg file. I will be glad to give it a separate post and give you full credit.
OK Abie Natan from the coastal waters meal sfat hayam, I offer you a peace deal you cannot refuse. We bring you 10 separate letters from ten (10) independent mumchim, a Clean bill of health for R' Aharon F. You disclose us in it's entirety (no piece meal) the letter of Hetter FREE FREE, the name(s) of 'who' ukvar horah hazoken might be, the letter of hetter nisuin with signatures, the shver and your (yuhr) eidim who they might be, the name of the alleged diagnosing treating Mumche, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
You are sitting on the edge port city in gaza of yoshvei ploshes, your friend from port city of Ashdod, your yeshiva bucher friend sitting in the cold down and under arboim feet (mem fiss) in Memphis, blowing soap bubbles filled with hot air into the wind, but you yet have to give din vecheshbon from whence a heter if any to this saga came from. Vehi yosheves Alon Bochis tachas tamar (Taam-mar) Devorah bimrirut taam, umi yodea im laes kazos ukreisa kvar bein shineho, vatehom kol ha'ir, hazos Naomi... (can't she do any better)? Try to send some bubbles to Port Said, Tsor vechor, veTsidon along other coasts maybe they can help. Night has already passed, Morrow and Noon have also come by, oso boiker vegam loylo, ve'ein oineh. Your'e running out of time, we are running out of breath, in the meantime everybody is sitting on edge, but life has to move on my friend. If you have something to say, say it now, or forever hold your peace.
in that case, did she remarry? to whom, an observant person, or an OO type (or similar; there was no OO in those days.) was she considered "damaged goods" cause of the suspicious heter? by now, did her subsequent children marry? same questions. did the yeshiva they went to accept them openly, or was there hesitancy? (you wouldn't know unless you were family and / or in the school administration. did he remarry? or did he go OTD? did he subsequently give her a get? what were the terms?
but it is obvious from comments that rav Greenblatt knew the details (or at least the "filtered" details that came from philadephia) about the husband's supposed "disorder" and wife's non knowledge of it. and the husband's not being allowed to be part of this proceeding.
I don't know why you call me incompetent. You don't know me. All I wrote is that your blog is a typical blog with no real content. You keep on saying "consensus" of posim without names. You suddenly call rav miller from Toronto a huge posek etc, you probably haven't heard of him till now. A typical rabble rouser. I did a little research about you and all said " der eideonsohn hut a Sach tzeit" it seems they weren't shocked at your business " taking care " of kallah yisroels a problem. What's interesting is that no one called you a scholar. Funny though that you take this into your own hands.
It is clear that if the public will accept this heter then the next heter will pass even quicker and more rabonim will issue these heterim, it will not take long and every rov who is dishonest enough will be willing to issue baseless heterim.
This aspect must be taken into account and the need of one wealthy woman is not more important than to cause many false heterim.
This case is clearly strange because they first went to beis-din and then when she did not get her way she went elsewhere, then the basis of the heter was not challanged properly. There is apparently friendship between her family and a yeshiva etc. In short, it looks suspecious and even if there is a basis for this psak it has not been proven at all.
Rofl, they did the digging at night when there was a "kurtzschluss" hasva'ah, in Timnos where they found karka besulo since the days of Shimshon way before Atzmaut. What they did find was 70 besulus for those that escorted Sheik Yassin in his wheelchair blown into smitherines.
Also not a problem. They can hire R' G any time witholding privileged information no questions asked and will perform an exorcism and mafkir the biah, hefker BD hefker. Kosher top kosher lefel.
SOS to Nosson hoAzosi. Promises promises. You are all talk but no action. Where is the letter, where is the hetter, forget about the translation. We will suffice with the original. Psach lonu sha'ar lifnei neilas sha'ar, kvar osso boiker vegam loylo vehineh boishesh lovo vehayeled einenu. This was the last call. Al daas hakohol, veal daas torah veal daas noiteh veal daas lekol mi sheyesh bo daas, ein kaan lo Heter, vein kaan lo Letter, avol yesh kaan issur Eishes ish, ukeshem shaossrin beBD shel maalo kach yihyu assurin beBD shel Mato. Nosson H. you are a fraud, fake, and a fony'. We recommend they should part company before matters get more complicated KeDas Moshe veYisrael.
While it is true that he has failed to deliver the goods, the same can be said of the moderator, who has been claiming for weeks that there will soon be a letter signed by many gedolim about the matter. Perhaps all should refrain from repeatedly telling of what they will soon post, and just post whatever they get when they get it.
Yehoshua - your advice is ridiculous as is your comparison. I exist. I have been bringing up issues for years and I have a good track record that what I say is true and supportable.
When I say I have seen and heard clear proof that a wide range of poskim are against this heter - there is a good reason to accept that based on my passed performance alone - even without seeing documentation.
Nathan here has no track record, is unknown and therefore there is no reason to accept anything he says until he produces the goods.
Therefore it is absurd foryou to assert that I should keep quiet and not inform the public of the seriousness of the matter until I can fully document my claims. If you really don't see the difference I would suggest you can spend your time more profitablly reading fairy tales
First of all, if anyone ever accuses you of being a rude and overbearing bully, you need only to look back at this comment of yours to have an understanding of what they mean.
Second of all, I did not say that you or anyone else should stop talking about this topic, keep quiet, or inform the public of the seriousness of the matter. I referred to the tiresome habit of constantly making references to documents that will soon be released, and then leaving the tzibbur hanging for weeks on end with no hint of such documents. If you didn't see that the first time, here you go again: "Perhaps all should refrain from repeatedly telling of what they will soon post, and just post whatever they get when they get it."
Nothing about not commenting, informing, or keeping quiet about the larger issue.
We have already seen 2 letters of Dayonim mumchim, whom nosson doesn't consider them arozim, but you can rest assure that arozim are on the way of which the above mentioned dayonmim are aware. Most likely the timing is political as you yourself have mentioned. In the meantime, it is better to hold 'one' bird in your hand than two in the bush, especially, while the bush is not even visible, and the eggs haven't yet hatched.
First of all, if anyone ever accuses you of being a rude and overbearing bully, you need only to look back at this comment of yours to have an understanding of what they mean
Pot, kettle. Except in this case, the kettle's not black, only the pot. I.e. you.
You keep on saying "consensus" of posim without names. You suddenly call rav miller from Toronto a huge posek etc, you probably haven't heard of him till now.
You're joking, right? He's extremely well-known and well-respected.
הרבנים יושבים בחיבוק ידים, כי צריכים להתארגן להמלוה מלכות הבאים עלינו, וא"א לצפות שהם יעשו דבר
. True, but you got it all backwards. It is those leaders of Matir Assurim of Eishes Ish that twist the hands of the Protesting Rabbanim not to come out publicly against them, at least before they convene lest they will be dismissed from the convention.
Hoy, Oy vey, manhigim olecho Yisrael. Ein lonu lo Kohen godol, velo urim vetumim, velo nossi, aval yesh lonu Asher yechto nossi.
Lol, such idiotism from the rabbi who bans everything, from the kosher switch to the shabes and yomtov mode on stoves
ReplyDeleteLooks to me like everyone else who hasn't written a letter views tamars marriage as kosher
Miller and gestetner vs all the gedolei yisroel
The problem with this, even if it is true, is that he accepts the judgement of Gedolei Hora'ah. Hence, should RSK put pen to paper, it implies that the heter would be accepted.
ReplyDeleteWhy can rav nota Greenblatt not be relied upon
ReplyDeleteNo Beis din is needed, when reb Moshe feinstein was matir, all he did was wrote a teshuva
No bet din convened
It a halachick question, and rav Greenblatt is as qualified as rav miller
Why is the title hedging whether this is legitimate or a forgery by referring to it as "alleged"?
ReplyDelete@Nathan - you have a lot of wishful thinking.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunate for Tamar, the Kaminetskys and R Greenblatt It is simply not true that anyone who has so far not made a public comment approves
Nor is it the fanatic right wing chareidim vs everyone else. There are many Center and Left wing Chareidim as well as Modern Orthodox rabbis who are also shocked by the realization that an eishes ish just got married without a Get with the mistaken guidance of those who should have known better.
I heard that there should be a letter signed by others in another week.
Please as your local Orthodox rabbi what he thinks and whether he is willing to sign a protest letter.
My rabbi says that rav nota Greenblatt can be relied upon, unless many mainstream poskim come out against him
ReplyDeleteSo far it hasn't happened
My sources indicate that Rav Miller is in fact against Tamar Epstein's remarriage without a Get.
ReplyDeleteHowever this looks as if it were a transcript of an oral answer which someone photo-shopped a signature.
So the word " alleged" is describing the physical letter - not the views expressed
I agree with your rabbi - but in fact many manistream poskim have objected to what Rabbi Greenblatt has done
ReplyDeleteRav Greenblatt unfortunately relied on inaccurate information that was fed him and which he didn't bother investigating himself. He in fact has stated that it is chutzpah to question information provided by the Kaminestkys.
ReplyDeleteCan someone possibly call Rabbi Miller and verify whether it is forged or not?
ReplyDeletePresumably he is aware of the letter, and hasnt come out saying it is forged...
Eddie - writing a teshuva is not a heter - it merely provides a transparent window to observe what has happened and why.
ReplyDeleteIn this case seriously flawed information was accepted as true by the Kaminetskys and Rav Greenblatt accepted it because the Kaminestekys said it was true. Unfortunately for all concern it is not true. They all should have taken time to validate it with independent experts who consulted with both sides - elementary halacha - but they didnt'bother.
My understanding is that the letter above is genuine not because I saw it but because a prominent posek called me up and read part of it to me with his comments.
ReplyDeleteAt the time Rabbi Miller signed other very prominent rabbis signed as well, but it is all being held up because they want more signers. There are various groups of rabbis dealing with letters of protest, and because many rabbis are involved, and some of them are not available now, things are dragging on. One key rabbi is not available for a few weeks, but eventually, these letters will probably be released. I just spoke to a third rabbi who is working on a letter. But not tomorrow.
But eventually I have been told letters will be released. In the meanwhile, I and my brother are busy and lonely, but let's hope that more public letters will be released soon.
Again, I know that one of the groups already has some very powerful and internationally noted rabbis signing against Tamar's marriage. But they are waiting for even more to sign.
Nathan,
ReplyDeleteMy brother is right. People of all levels of Orthodoxy are shocked and pained by what Tamar did. The anger is building. One prominent YU rabbi called me and when he talked about Tamar he began to sputter. Some people have called me and called for public demonstrations. The anger buiilds, and at this point, the anger is fueled by this blog and my own torahhalacha.blogspot.com . But things are moving and heating up. It is now after many hours of pressure and research clear that the entire premise of the remarriage was completely wrong, and even a lie. Also, Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky signed a letter not to support Tamar's remarriage, and now we find that Rabbi Greenblatt is claiming that Gedolim told him that Tamar is not married and may remarry. That means most likely Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky, because what other person he thinks is a Gadol signed about this?
"Come out against" does not equal "objected to."
ReplyDeleteNathan,
ReplyDeleteIt has happened. One prominent rabbi told me that Tamar's new children will be mamzerim. One group alone has now about seven prominent signers but they are holding them until more signers can be reached and affixed.
Well, it just got posted 45 minutes ago, so I wouldn't assume he has private investigators working that quick in finding things allegedly posted in his name.
ReplyDeleteRofl, your logic is bopkes. They dug somewhere in the Negev near amudei Shlomo and found some copper wires, so it was established in Solomon's times they already had electricity. They also dug in gaza, but did not find any wires, therefore it is establaished that they had wireless with batteries.
ReplyDeletefrom the archives of Nathan's Hot Dogs
Which daas is it, Daas Nusen, Nuteh or Noite?
ReplyDeleteWhere is his teshuva?
ReplyDeleteI didn't write a letter, does that mean I view it as kosher. Rabbi Heineman did not write this letter 2 weeks ago, does that mean he changed his mind? Those who did not write letters but are orally against this, are they liars or amnivalent? Learn some basic logic and then return to the adult conversation.
ReplyDeleteLet's play it your way - if you want to compare to Reb Moshe, where is the written teshuva?
ReplyDeleteSo I guess I'll rely on Nathan who said we could rely on his anonymous rabbi who said that we can rely on Rabbi Greenblatt ego days he's relying on an anonymous rabbi. Yeh, maybe I'll just wait.
ReplyDeleteIt is a hetter
ReplyDeleteThe last 2 lines read as follows
לאור האמור למעלה מותרת האשה תמר עפשטין לכל אדם אף בלי גט ואף לכהן
As soon as the negative proclamation come out, so will the teshuva
ReplyDeleteReb moshes teshuva was publicized years after the story happened
ReplyDeleteI assume that the handwritten note at the end is from Rav Miller it is not clear
ReplyDeleteCan I publish R Feldman's letter?
U can publish if he allows you to
ReplyDeleteRav heiniman holds that based of the info he has , a hetter can be reached although he will not get involved
ReplyDeleteIs Adam Fleischer a kohen
ReplyDeleteLol everyone know that rav miller has a agenda here, the he preside over any hetter
ReplyDeleteHe is so transparent
He couldn't getbevem one other rabbi to sign with him
As rabbi Blum said don't sign with him even on the aseret hadibrot
U keep on saying that there are others
ReplyDeleteLet them come out and be counted or forever hold the peace
In Diplomacy language, it most certainly does.
ReplyDeleteHave u ever heard of the following Talmudic saying
ReplyDeleteמדשתקי רבנן שמע מינה דניחא להו
Also, Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky signed a letter not to support Tamar's remarriage,
ReplyDeleteR' Shmuel signed a letter against her remarriage? Huh? So are you now saying the remarriage was not based on R' Shmuel? Where is this supposed letter?
I received reliable information that it is in fact Rav Miller's view
ReplyDeleteNathan - your information is not accurate
ReplyDeleteAnd have you ever heard expression of the Torah, Veim lo yagid venosso avono? Besides, מדשתקי
ReplyDeleteרבנן שמע מינה דשקר היא. Veihave raya, harotse leshaker yarchik eduso. No such thing as Sod betoch Ta'alumo. If you have a reliable source, what have you got to hide?
Not the way it works. According to anyone who was at her first wedding, they all witnessed a man giving a ring to a woman saying the magic words. Then there were two people who witnessed them go into a yichud room together. Add in the fact that for several years, said woman was attempting to obtain a get, thus implicitly, if not explicitly, acknowledging the fact that she appeared to be married
ReplyDeleteFast forward ten years or so and a Rabbi marries this same woman to another man. Clearly according to halacha, said woman cannot be with a second man while still with the first.
So unless the marrying rabbi has "something" (i.e. a psak or a tshuva) that allows him to counter what appeared to the world as a valid marriage, then the Rabbi has the obligation to make public his basis for doing so. He has that obligation whether or not a negative proclamation comes out because of the public appearances.
Didn't he recluse himself not to support this issue anymore?
ReplyDeleteYour going to have to explain the line "Rabbi Shmuel Kaminetsky signed a letter not to support Tamar's remarriage, and now we find that Rabbi Greenblatt is claiming that Gedolim told him that Tamar is not married and may remarry"
ReplyDeleteWhy does it matter?
ReplyDeleteThey don't take orders, only Give orders. Don't be doche et hakeits.
ReplyDeleteNo it doesn't. Private objections transmitted to individuals will have no impact on how the public views the issue. Only once prominent rabbonim publicly state their positions will it begin to have an impact.
ReplyDeleteNathan,
ReplyDeleteThere is money and power involved in this case. That must be noted too.
Even the Baltimor beis-din did not issue a Siruv against Tamar for refusing to attend. They may be the only party which acted fairly but they were unable to take such a basic step against her.
Seriously, these are dvorim haomdim berumo shel olam. Don't believe for one moment that he is not objective in this issue of Eishes ish and Mamzeirus. He does not have a horse in this race, no negius, no shoshvinus, no Yeshiva donations in the past, present or future. As has been mentioned, he said this orally, and his signature was affixated as boser shelo pogu. There is power in numbers, and the Tsunami of category 5 is in the mail!
ReplyDeleteNo idea. Where's that info coming from?
ReplyDeleteRecuse not recluse.
Test balloons of kole delo posek, have been released to the public atmosphere by a viable Posek. Anyone short of being a BD musmach or BD meforsem, need not apply. Veyovo baal hashor veyaamid al shoro.
ReplyDeleteOn this blog, blogs ago.
ReplyDeleteלאור האמור למעלה. Huh What has been written lemala?
ReplyDeleteNathan,
ReplyDeleteYou will forgive me but I know who signed with Rabbi Miller and they are top of the line. I don't know if they are on your level but maybe that is because they don't live in Gaza.
I talk to these people regularly and I am happy with my knowledge. You can imagine that nobody disagrees with this hideous episode, but I speak to people every day who are getting angrier and angrier. They want to do this and that, and by now, everyone knows the whole facts and that the whole thing is an invention and a lie. But you are right, that surely a faster response was called for, and I know the stories of the delay, but I am happy that people are fighting every day for hours to get things organized. I am not waiting for anyone, but I put out my material on my blog torahhalacha.blogspotl.com and I have mainly the halacha sources that shows that there is no way at all that any knowing Rov can permit Tamar to remarry. The material is on my website. Others came along and found out the insane claims of Shalom Kaminetsky how this and that person said that Aharon was insane. You have to be insane to believe any of this. But everyone involved in this mess had faith in the power of "Gedolim" to escape critiism. But they were wrong, big time. I am going to announce when Tamar has a child that the child is a mamzer, and I have asked the question to serioius rabbonim and poskim who completely agree.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all it has happened. There are now three groups that I know of who are working furiously to produce signatures of the senior rabbonim in several countries to declare that Tamar is living in sin and her children to be will be mamzerim. I hear various dates but I know one case where an unavoidable delay of twenty days occurred on the exact day they wanted to wrap things up. That happens.
ReplyDeleteSecond of all, I don't rely on anybody when I know that the Shulchan Aruch and the poskim disagree. Ask Rabbi Greenblatt his source for this remarriage as I did. His response, "Gedolim" approved it. Who? Rabbi Kaminetsky. I know that Rabbi Kaminetsky is not an expert in Gittin, because he once asked me where in Shulchan Aruch it talks about how to write a name in a GET, something every Rosh Yeshiva should know beause they write kesubose. I have been quarreling with him for years about his statements to torment husbands that he never spoke to because he wanted to do a favor for their wives. He is far removed from Daas Torah. And who else is Rabbi Greenblatt's Gadol? Those working on this can't find anyone else. And they know all of the rabbis who are prone to these inventions, and they are not Gedolim.
Wow. Once you go for the hocus pocus magical heter, you may as well marry a Kohen. Neat.
ReplyDeleteNosson Ha'azati alleges to have seen the "hetter" from the mysterious Shatz. If he's able to share the last line, maybe he can tell us more about the content?
ReplyDeleteA Freudian slip, מותרת האשה תמר עפשטין. How about Habetula, HaAlma? Maybe SHE was mekayem the mitzvo kmo shene'emar 'Vehoyiso meshugo mimareh einecho' and doesn't even know from Adam, toleh kileloso beacherim style.
ReplyDeleteI will post a short version of the hetter later tonight
ReplyDeletethis is an ugly mess, and I am going to try to refrain from any further comments because of the severity of the problem of eshes ish and mamzerut.
ReplyDeleteTamar Epstein is muttar to any "Adam" (Fleisher). What about to Tom, Dick, and Harry?
ReplyDeleteI will post a short version of the hetter later tonight
ReplyDeleteNu, has later tonight come yet?
lol
Nathan is hiding in a tunnel in Gaza, and he doesn't realize that it's midday in Israel.
ReplyDeleteVehinei pesher hadovor. Lulei chorashtem be'eglosi, lo motsosem chidosi. The last two lines contain the conditions of Kibla heter miBD mforsam and haskomos gedolei hoiro'oh according to noson hoazes ponim miAza they have been met . As for bichsav, since it is besod and dvorim shebaal peh i ato reshoim lekosvom bichsav.
ReplyDeleteOperation Nachshon veShimshon
Why only a short version? What's hidden in the long version? We're big boys. We know how to handle materials in long version.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't publc knowledge at thetime, like this case is.
ReplyDeleteThe one who was maatik the hetter for me is a bochur in the yeshiva of memfis
ReplyDeleteHe got cold feet and dosnt want me to put it up , I'm still working on it
Because even r rackman did not allow a cohen (not that the wife (or the next husband) really cared. (He wrote a get in his cases. Zikui or something.)
ReplyDeleteI happen to know who the wife is in reb moshes teshuva
ReplyDeleteDid he tell you any details about it? Who wrote it? Who signed it?
ReplyDeleteBet you dollars to doughnuts, that you are mimicking, monkey see monkey do, ma'asse kof bealma. As the saying goes, lech leAza. You sound like the Kat, and not the kind the gazans chew on. BTW while at it, why don't you tell your friend from 'mem' 'fis', he has no fis to stand on, cold or otherwise. What a meatball!
ReplyDeleteAf al pi roisi, veaf al gav lo roisi. Translation: A nose above the mouth I have seen, however, a nose on the shoulder I haven't seen. Leor haomur lemaala.... Translation: a nose without a Get and a nose on a Kohen. Nussele, you are visioning S.Z.'s chezyonot. U R A Fraud like nussen hoazosi.
ReplyDeleteI have seen the others, but they are nechbo el hakelim. Overnight, I will try to convince them to come out of their kelim lol. Yeah' right, overnight Kugel Or was it morgen noch'n Kugel.
ReplyDeleteNussen, haksav, vehamichtov lo hoyo velo nivro. There are no details, nor body of any letter. Meshateh hu bochem. We just finished perek assoro yochsin, how did nussen pop back up again? Oloh mibavel veyorad leAza.
ReplyDeleteWhich case of Rav Moshe are we referring to? What were the details of the case and what was his psak.
ReplyDeleteCall me a meatball from today till tomorrow
ReplyDeleteBut I happen to be the man in the know
Monkey see monkey do
It dosnt mean its not true
This union is here to stay
And miller should stay at bay
Teshuva will come soon
Maybe even by the morrow noon
They may be nechba
ReplyDeleteBut they begot no kelim
And I hope tht there children marry these holy offspring
I feel bad for any bachur who decided to go learn in Memphis. He is now stuck between a rock and a hard place.
ReplyDeleteEhud, if ud like to see chezyonot, meet me on west 79th outside the carlebach shul, 9pm tonight
ReplyDeleteThe teshuva is relying on information which is false. Garbage in Garbage out.
ReplyDeleteSo says you
ReplyDeleteWait till you read the teshuva
Also maybe try find out who the eidim were
Part of the hetter
ReplyDeleteוהנה קיבלנו מסמכים ממומחה שטיפל בו שנתיים קודם חתונתם מטעם שהיה נוגע אז, ושם כתוב שבעל סובל מאי זה דיסארדער, והאשה לא ידעה כלום מזה, כי הבעל העלים זאת, וכל בעיותיה בשלום בית נבעה ממחלתו זאת, לפי דעת המומחים,
ומיד שנודע להאשה ממחלתו זו אמרה שלעולם לא תחזור לבעלה, כי יודעת שלמחלה זו אין שום רפואה ואין לה לקוות לשלום בית אתה, וכשנשאלו עשרה נשים יהודיות, היודעם בטיב המחלה אם היה נושאים בעל שיש לו דיסאדער זו, כולם אמרו בודאי שלא......
If the halacha she insists on contestin'
ReplyDeleteI hope for the kid's sake she's using progestin.
As I said the information that was relied on is false and has been verifed to be false by people directly involved as well as outside psychiatrists that weren't biased against the husband.
ReplyDeleteThe heter is not valid according to any of the poskim who have been questioned.
As I have mentioned before this is the crux of the matter. Kiddushei taos requires that the husband have a prexisting condition - unknown to the wife before marriage - that is so horrible that most women could not live with it.
That is absolutely not true regarding Aharon Friedman. In fact it is so clear that Aharon could easily sue all those involved for libel and there is no question that he would win.
Is Rabbi Greenblatt prepared for a multimillion lawsuit against him? Are the Kaminetsky's? Perhaps Tamar and family won't be bothered paying 10 million dollars for the damage they have caused.
Finally we see a logical hetter
ReplyDeleteAnd daas Torah, do u think rav Greenblatt is afraid of a lawsuit, he's a 90 year old gadol, and untouchable
All that is left to say is
שהזווג יעלה יפה, ויזכו לדורות ישרים מבורכים
And arhon Friedman can eat his get
The yarzeit was last nite (and today, till 6pm EDT). Make sure your shul uses his 'mimkomcha' for shabbat morning kedusha.
ReplyDeleteAssodi - true it is logical but it is false.
ReplyDeleteIf the information they claim is the basis for the heter is talse - which it is - then the heter is no good.
Rabbi Greenblatt is not untouchable nor are the Kaminetskys
It doesn't realy matter who is afraid of a lawsuit but it does matter what the Judge thinks of this mess that they created by not following elementary halachic procedure.
Hmmm... Just a few questions my friend. Why does this letter NEED
ReplyDeletetranslation, why not in the original, and why not in it's entirety, is it also
possible that it is in midst of fabrication hot of the press, and why does a mum godol need a
heter more than what's written in the partial, was that mumche treating him for
2 years before their wedding a ROFEH, and how come after not having sholom bayis
for so many years no other mumcheh was able to diagnose that particular disorder
from her while telling her side of the story, will all other mumchim that AF
shall go to as of now - suppose ten NEUTRAL ONES agree with the original
mumche's diagnosis, does this original mumche that has dealt with
his disorder labeled it as such yet back then, why was/is this kept a secret,
why is this no more a secret, why is there a meilits beinoisom as with habucher
hazetser mimemfiss, why aren't we privileged to see the dates on this letter,
've'im ken' 'why haven't those relevant parties responded to this AF saga before
the kol kore's? And can you please explain the meaning of
מטעם
שהיה נוגע אז...?
Would you mind if we ask AF whether these allegations and statements are
true? Why when they were shopping around for signatures to sign the Heter AS IS,
why didn't they want to disclose the witnesses/ mumchim and all? Veze rak
miktsas shvocho befonov, and before we move on yovo baal hashor veyaamod al shoro,
then we talk. And oh yes, just one more before we go, were those klep smitten by
those hired KKK's an attempt to exercise exorcism to beat the devil/ruach ro'oh
out of him as a last resort to heal him from this secret disorder?
Eidim to what?
ReplyDeleteWho were the rabbonim signed on the bottom?
ReplyDeleteAharon doesn't need a Get, but he might give Tamar one, if she becomes more reasonable with visitation rights. My guess is that he will apply for a "hetter 100 rabbanim", and will be able to move on with his life. Meanwhile Tamar is really messed up. תצא מזה ומזה is no laughing matter!
ReplyDeleteJust a quick question. Would you allow your child to marry any of her future offspring from AF? It's interesting that you use the nickname "Ashdodi". It reminds me of the verse in Zechariah (9:6) וישב ממזר באשדוד.
Is that a threat? Me Shimshon, You Gazan?
ReplyDeleteאהוד היקר נ"י
ReplyDeleteעד שיעמדו הרבנים לאורים ותומים ויאמרו דעתם ,מתפלל אני שיתערבו זרים בזרע פסול
Is this the best shliach BD they can put forth? Is this bochur the nosse kelim and safra dedayna. If he cannot even spell right, how did he get this job? And such gedolim call her ISHA? Didn't they just come up with a gevaldovne chidush of mekach lekach hetach petach back in time vehi batul?
ReplyDeleteThey aren't afraid of a civil judge, they are afraid of the שופט כל הארץ only
ReplyDeleteIsrael reader we have a zakary expert on the team, how nice
ReplyDeleteWell said ashdodi
ReplyDeleteYou can rap cra. but cannot deliver the goods,
ReplyDelete'bli tesha shittin' TF can do nottin,
you release the letter tippin tippin,
because you cannot even bekir mashtin,
mezuyaf mitocho umigabo,
why is she called HAISHO? Huh
To the claim that the husband is insane.
ReplyDeleteTfilas shav. Maybe if they keep their peace, they can marry chetsyom medabrim ashdoidis. Do you think after all these public notices, it can be kivan denitmeu nitmeu? BTW AF doesn't eat goat food.
ReplyDeleteUr really freakin
ReplyDeleteIt's 12 not 9 shittin
Vehashofet kol ho'orets ya'amid bamishpot! Why are they afraid to open up the letter lifnei kol ha'am? Don't they a spine to stand up?
ReplyDeleteAd matay ata marbeh ba'alei mumim, psulim umamzerim beyisrael? Vein lonu lo Kohen godol, velo urim velo tumim ad sheyovo Eliyohu. Show us the goods, the letter in it's entirety!
ReplyDeleteLichora this would be in the category of shuma and we'd go basar rov dei'os, not eidim (even if that is what he's referring to).
ReplyDeleteI cant tell you if they're afraid of the One above. Only He knows that. But from the fact that this "hetter" is being hidden from the public, I can tell you that they're afraid of the בעלי הלכה of the generation, and how they will be skewered in the court of public opinion.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't a threat. He just wanted to share with you some of the stuff that he's been smoking lekavod the rebbe's yahrtzeit. L-rd Get me high....
ReplyDeletehttp://video.yehudim.net/play.php?vid=234
He is chewing Gazan Kat.
ReplyDeleteSince your'e chewing Kat, beafariki tat shtayim,
ReplyDeleteumitchalfot bePat paamayim,
you disclosed us from the letter only shurot shtayim,
vehabucher hazetzer in yeshiva with 'kollel' is 12,
wallah, vehineh treiser, tnanash, esrei ushtayim,
vagam metzaltzel bemetzaltayim.
If it still doesn't add up, eat another piece of Kugel biyedayim
Don't work too hard, just post the whole thing. Whats'a matter, you afraido? Mostly, when people put up walls of firefighters isolating themselves, is for stalling for time and remain with an option the butler said it. Where is this, in Jewland? The butler did it:)
ReplyDeleteVery sad to read your blog Rabbi Eidensohn. What is clear is that you don't know who Rav Nota is and are not giving him the proper respect. Asking time and time again who is his gadol-daas torah- shows u have never met him. He is considered one of the biggest poskim in the dor especially even haezer. has dealt with these sort shaylos since the sixties, with Rav Moshe. Please do some research before writing unintelligent thing
ReplyDeleteהרבנים יושבים בחיבוק ידים, כי צריכים להתארגן להמלוה מלכות הבאים עלינו, וא"א לצפות שהם יעשו דבר, הם כקבוצה הכי רחוקים מהתורה ובעלי מידות רעות ומגונות , וקשה לעמוד לידם מריח הקשה של גאוה שנודף מהם, והם פוסעים על ראשי עם קודש, והלואי שיאבד זכרם,
ReplyDeleteGo argue with him, not me.
ReplyDeleteLubmen - you don't have the competence to reject what I have written. I am not questioning Rav Nota's greatness. That was never an issue.
ReplyDeleteIt is Rav Nota himself who claimed that he was relying on unnamed gedolim. He takes no responsibility for the accuracy of the facts he paskened (and yes he is the source of the heter).
But he has made an elementary error in dealing with this case. He has relied totally on the information provided by the Kaminetskys without either independently investigating or even talking to Aharon Friedman before trashing him and labeling a person who is incapable of having a legitimate marriage. My objection is not mine alone but is the consensus of poskim who have been consulted in this matter.
His response has been that it is chutzpa to question the information and conclusion of the Kaminetskys. However what they provide him is a halacha issue but a psychological one.
Neither he nor the Kaminetskys understand modern psychology and the deep seated issues connected with its validity. This is a question of metzius - and they are wrong.
Are you claiming he is infallible? Not even Rav Moshe claimed infallibility.
Nathan - I don't understand why you are dribbling this "document" out - a couple lines at a time. Please simply photograph it and send me the jpg file. I will be glad to give it a separate post and give you full credit.
ReplyDeleteOK Abie Natan from the coastal waters meal sfat hayam, I offer you a peace deal you cannot refuse. We bring you 10 separate letters from ten (10) independent mumchim, a Clean bill of health for R' Aharon F. You disclose us in it's entirety (no piece meal) the letter of Hetter FREE FREE, the name(s) of 'who' ukvar horah hazoken might be, the letter of hetter nisuin with signatures, the shver and your (yuhr) eidim who they might be, the name of the alleged diagnosing treating Mumche, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
ReplyDeleteYou are sitting on the edge port city in gaza of yoshvei ploshes, your friend from port city of Ashdod, your yeshiva bucher friend sitting in the cold down and under arboim feet (mem fiss) in Memphis, blowing soap bubbles filled with hot air into the wind, but you yet have to give din vecheshbon from whence a heter if any to this saga came from. Vehi yosheves Alon Bochis tachas tamar (Taam-mar) Devorah bimrirut taam, umi yodea im laes kazos ukreisa kvar bein shineho, vatehom kol ha'ir, hazos Naomi... (can't she do any better)? Try to send some bubbles to Port Said, Tsor vechor, veTsidon along other coasts maybe they can help. Night has already passed, Morrow and Noon have also come by, oso boiker vegam loylo, ve'ein oineh. Your'e running out of time, we are running out of breath, in the meantime everybody is sitting on edge, but life has to move on my friend. If you have something to say, say it now, or forever hold your peace.
And where was Dr. David Epstein A"H all that time. He never noticed anything peculiar about the prospect, or thereafter?
ReplyDeletein that case, did she remarry? to whom, an observant person, or an OO type (or similar; there was no OO in those days.) was she considered "damaged goods" cause of the suspicious heter?
ReplyDeleteby now, did her subsequent children marry? same questions. did the yeshiva they went to accept them openly, or was there hesitancy? (you wouldn't know unless you were family and / or in the school administration.
did he remarry? or did he go OTD?
did he subsequently give her a get? what were the terms?
but it is obvious from comments that rav Greenblatt knew the details (or at least the "filtered" details that came from philadephia) about the husband's supposed "disorder" and wife's non knowledge of it. and the husband's not being allowed to be part of this proceeding.
ReplyDeleteyou have the joke all wrong.
ReplyDeleteand they didn't have batteries, they had Israeli electricity that they don't pay for.
I don't know why you call me incompetent. You don't know me. All I wrote is that your blog is a typical blog with no real content. You keep on saying "consensus" of posim without names. You suddenly call rav miller from Toronto a huge posek etc, you probably haven't heard of him till now. A typical rabble rouser. I did a little research about you and all said " der eideonsohn hut a Sach tzeit" it seems they weren't shocked at your business " taking care " of kallah yisroels a problem. What's interesting is that no one called you a scholar. Funny though that you take this into your own hands.
ReplyDeleteLubmen
ReplyDeleteIt is clear that if the public will accept this heter then the next heter will pass even quicker and more rabonim will issue these heterim, it will not take long and every rov who is dishonest enough will be willing to issue baseless heterim.
This aspect must be taken into account and the need of one wealthy woman is not more important than to cause many false heterim.
This case is clearly strange because they first went to beis-din and then when she did not get her way she went elsewhere, then the basis of the heter was not challanged properly. There is apparently friendship between her family and a yeshiva etc. In short, it looks suspecious and even if there is a basis for this psak it has not been proven at all.
I have a letter from reb zalman nechemia thtt will blow ur mind
ReplyDeleteNathan - please stop the jokes.
ReplyDeleteHave I got a bridge to sell you!
If you have something to share please share it - but dropping names without supporting evidence is nonsense.
Rofl, they did the digging at night when there was a "kurtzschluss" hasva'ah, in Timnos where they found karka besulo since the days of Shimshon way before Atzmaut. What they did find was 70 besulus for those that escorted Sheik Yassin in his wheelchair blown into smitherines.
ReplyDeleteAlso not a problem. They can hire R' G any time witholding privileged information no questions asked and will perform an exorcism and mafkir the biah, hefker BD hefker. Kosher top kosher lefel.
ReplyDeleteSOS to Nosson hoAzosi. Promises promises. You are all talk but no action. Where is the letter, where is the hetter, forget about the translation. We will suffice with the original. Psach lonu sha'ar lifnei neilas sha'ar, kvar osso boiker vegam loylo vehineh boishesh lovo vehayeled einenu. This was the last call. Al daas hakohol, veal daas torah veal daas noiteh veal daas lekol mi sheyesh bo daas, ein kaan lo Heter, vein kaan lo Letter, avol yesh kaan issur Eishes ish, ukeshem shaossrin beBD shel maalo kach yihyu assurin beBD shel Mato. Nosson H. you are a fraud, fake, and a fony'. We recommend they should part company before matters get more complicated KeDas Moshe veYisrael.
ReplyDeleteWhile it is true that he has failed to deliver the goods, the same can be said of the moderator, who has been claiming for weeks that there will soon be a letter signed by many gedolim about the matter. Perhaps all should refrain from repeatedly telling of what they will soon post, and just post whatever they get when they get it.
ReplyDeleteYehoshua - your advice is ridiculous as is your comparison. I exist. I have been bringing up issues for years and I have a good track record that what I say is true and supportable.
ReplyDeleteWhen I say I have seen and heard clear proof that a wide range of poskim are against this heter - there is a good reason to accept that based on my passed performance alone - even without seeing documentation.
Nathan here has no track record, is unknown and therefore there is no reason to accept anything he says until he produces the goods.
Therefore it is absurd foryou to assert that I should keep quiet and not inform the public of the seriousness of the matter until I can fully document my claims. If you really don't see the difference I would suggest you can spend your time more profitablly reading fairy tales
First of all, if anyone ever accuses you of being a rude and overbearing bully, you need only to look back at this comment of yours to have an understanding of what they mean.
ReplyDeleteSecond of all, I did not say that you or anyone else should stop talking about this topic, keep quiet, or inform the public of the seriousness of the matter. I referred to the tiresome habit of constantly making references to documents that will soon be released, and then leaving the tzibbur hanging for weeks on end with no hint of such documents. If you didn't see that the first time, here you go again:
"Perhaps all should refrain from repeatedly telling of what they will soon post, and just post whatever they get when they get it."
Nothing about not commenting, informing, or keeping quiet about the larger issue.
Yeshoshua - my comments stand.
ReplyDeleteWe have already seen 2 letters of Dayonim mumchim, whom nosson doesn't consider them arozim, but you can rest assure that arozim are on the way of which the above mentioned dayonmim are aware. Most likely the timing is political as you yourself have mentioned. In the meantime, it is better to hold 'one' bird in your hand than two in the bush, especially, while the bush is not even visible, and the eggs haven't yet hatched.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, if anyone ever accuses you of being a rude and overbearing
ReplyDeletebully, you need only to look back at this comment of yours to have an
understanding of what they mean
Pot, kettle. Except in this case, the kettle's not black, only the pot. I.e. you.
You keep on saying "consensus" of posim without names. You suddenly call
ReplyDeleterav miller from Toronto a huge posek etc, you probably haven't heard of
him till now.
You're joking, right? He's extremely well-known and well-respected.
הרבנים יושבים בחיבוק ידים, כי צריכים להתארגן להמלוה מלכות הבאים עלינו, וא"א לצפות שהם יעשו דבר
ReplyDelete. True, but you got it all backwards. It is those leaders of Matir Assurim of Eishes Ish that twist the hands of the Protesting Rabbanim not to come out publicly against them, at least before they convene lest they will be dismissed from the convention.
Hoy, Oy vey, manhigim olecho Yisrael. Ein lonu lo Kohen godol, velo urim vetumim, velo nossi, aval yesh lonu Asher yechto nossi.
Avinu malkenu, chamol olenu veal olalenu vetapenu.
" והנה קיבלנו מסמכים ממומחה שטיפל בו "
ReplyDeleteAnd where is the Shver? Seriously, who are the eidim, and where are the clowns? If you received the original mismachim, what are the eidim for
?