Malbim (Bereishis 7:23) All existence on earth was blotted out While life was blotted out, many of their bones which were as strong as iron bars and did not disintegrate. Most of the carcasses were carried by the flood waters into deep crevices. They were thus buried deep in the earth. Consequentlt when Noach left the Ark, he found no trace of the carcasses of animals or the big bones of of the large animals or giants that existed before the Flood. The testimony of G-d is reliable and enlightens the fool. And is the response to the scholarly geologists who dig in the depths of the Earth where they find the large bones of giants and large animals. That were lost from the earth and have not existed after the days of the flood, They claim this is proof that the world is very old. That is because that the world is composed of different materials and that different distinct depths there is a different type of earth and they calculate based on these layers the age of the bones. They believe that the world is thousands of years old and that there were already animals from ancient times before the time of our creation. And this is nonsense, because at the time of the flood the earth opened up because of the earthquakes and they overturned the layers bring the lower levels to the top and the top layers to the bottom as well as lowering the carcasses to the lower levels. This process of overturning the layers which continued for 150 years confounds the scientists . They should only be aware of the deeds and wonders of G-d as to how he obliterated the world and drowned them to the depths.
Netziv (Bereishis 7:23) All existence on earth was blotted out That means that their bodies were removed from the surface of the world. But many of the bodies were covered with dirt by the Flood but remained intact. In fact these are source of the bones that have been found by those who dig in the dirt and find bones of creatures which don’t exist now in the world. The many scientist conclude from them that there must have been a different world in existence proior to the creation of this world. In fact in Bereishis Rabbah it clearly states that there were worlds created before this one which G-d destroyed. This idea is also found in the Zohar. Nevertheless I find this problematic as we see in Shemos Rabbah that what came before is not significant and nothing remained of them. I think that these bones are from those that existed before the Flood and no longer exist. Even though they flourished in a different climate but they deviated from their previous life prior to the Flood and moved to a different place. They continued to exist by breeding with different species and produced strange offspring like a horse breeds with a camel. It is the result of Divine supervision that these bones remain so that the contemporary generation can learn the secrets of Nature and the Glory of G-d. .
A flood took place.
ReplyDeleteThe Torah does not speak about America or Australia.
Even in America there was melting of glaciers as the ice age ended.
There was also continuous civilisation in south America, so it's hard to explain how they were drowned then came back to life the next day.
On one hand, many ancient cultures have a tradition that there was a flood way back when. It's easy to conclude that at some point (maybe a massive sudden melt during the last Ice Age) there was a flood since all these disconnected peoples have that story in their history.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I'm always wary of people who, when confronted with science, announce "Magic!" to explain away all the objections.
Or the Torah is true and KA and GI are apikorsim. I'm going with the latter
ReplyDeleteIs that bilaam again?
DeleteThe Torah is true but we have to do a better job understanding it, remember that it was written not just for us but people living 3500 years ago who had less knowledge of natural science.
DeleteDoes Bilaam fly on planes?
DeleteHow about have low sodium or use of modern medicine?
That's a denial of oral law.
Rambam says flying on a ship is impossible.
He.and.the Zohar say there are only 4 fundamental elements
So anything which is based on modern chemistry is apikorsus and denial of the Zohar.
Plus the Chazal who thought, a la Terry Pratchett, that the world is a flat disc with a dome over it.
DeleteBut the four elements things has a foundation, just using the word "element" confuses it. There are 4 states - solid, liquid, gas, and energy, which correspond to the classical understanding.
There's also a 5th state - plasma
DeleteThe 4 elements are not Chazal, but rambam who learned it from Aristotle and friends.
DeleteThe Zohar learned it from Rambam, because in chazal's time there was no knowledge of Rambam's philosophy or concepts.
I would classify plasma as a form of energy but I see your point.
DeleteThere's a chazaka in the Gemara that Jewish men don't indulge in gay homosexual acts.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, protesting the pride parades in Eretz Israel is acknowledging that there are such acts in Israel. Hence it's denial of the talmud!
It goes back to the question I've asked before: If Chazal came back to life today and were shown the massive advances in our understanding of science and history, would they cross the arms and say "Nope, it's exactly what we said back then" or would they say "Wow! So much we didn't know! Let's learn it all to understand how God build the universe and express His glory!"?
DeleteThey already use Roman or Greek weights and measures in the Mishnah. And debate whether the Roman bath is a good thing or bad.
DeleteSo presumably today they might be found in the gym and debating whether they should be at a men only gym.but that it is good for your health.
This should be the distinction between Chareidism and Modern Orthodox - were Chazal closed-mined ideologues incapable of flexible thinking or were they highly intelligent seekers of truth no matter how much it confronted their positions?
DeleteChareidi will emphasize sources that support one position, whilst MO will emphasize other sources that support their own
DeleteRav David Bleich, shlit"a, is a good example of that. If you read his older works, his sources are balanced. He will bring opposing points of view and either admit it's a machlokes or state why he disagrees with them. Over the last 15 years or so, I noticed a shift, especially when it came to ideological positions. He would marshall multiple sources to support his point and either 1-2 that opposed him and state "Since there's very little opposition" or just ignore opposing sources and claim that everyone agrees with him.
DeleteLook at the story of the Tanur of Aknai, and see different approaches to "truth". Which is more truthful, considering the chachamim don't understand Rabbi Eliezer's arguments..?
DeleteAs Rav Moshe, zt"l, points out famously in the intro to Igros Moshe, the truth is what the posek decides, not what Heaven thinks it is. If you bring the posek a chicken to check, in Heaven they know whether it has a defect or not but if the posek checks and doesn't find it and pronounces it kosher, then it's kosher.
DeleteSo if the principle is "Lo b'shamayim hi" and that we follow the majority, then the truth is as the majority say it is even if Heaven thinks that Rabbi Eliezer was right.
Interestingly, Rav Steinsaltz, zt"l, analyzes this story and according to him, Rabbi Eliezer had already paskened so Rabbi Yehoshua and the rest were coming along to override him which is why he stood his ground.
Rav Bleich probably more than 15 years. He brings views, then goes with the mainstream hareidi point of view.
DeleteHe even parroted the permissive view on smoking, maybe 40 years ago
The Netziv is getting closer to a modern understanding.
ReplyDeleteRav kook said that when Adam was put into a deep sleep, it accounts for the time gap of evolution and extinctions
https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/this-elephant-lived-in-europe-for-700-000-years-could-it-live-there-today?fbclid=IwY2xjawKAUfNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHkFjRPUa82QHkP7Se9sNfWJ8ByUJE9DKkgNpt-wUboLAgwl15Uva1a1j_hTg_aem_GlOPHHPYvZhoBi9yDG9mHA
There's enough hints and ambiguities to handle these things. We have a tradition that Adam HaRishon was created on the sixth day. However, the sixth day is unique in that the Torah goes back to it to flesh out the details of what happened. Problem is, it doesn't zoom back out until after Kayin and Hevel when it gets into Adam's descendants and their life spans. Since it's obvious the six days are more eras than strictly 24 hour days, how long was the sixth day in total?
DeleteThen there's the flood where we are told that the sun and moon stopped working. This suggests that time as we understand it also stopped. The year of the flood could've been 10 000 years in total, explaining a lot of anxient archeology that clearly predates when a literal reading of the Torah puts the flood in history.