Tuesday, January 14, 2025

Civil Marriage

 Igros Moshe (EH I #75) Question A woman who was only married by a secular procedure and she lived with him for two months in a place where there are no Jews and afterwards she lived alone for for three and a half years and then returned to her husband and lived for five years in a place where there were Jews but they had no interaction with religious Jews except for perhaps a few. Then he left her and she lived alone for half a year. Her husband returned and they lived in a place without religious Jews. They knew nothing about religion at all. Afterwards they lived in Los Angeles in a neighborhood that had some religious Jews for eight years in four places. A year in one place two years in a second place two years in a third and three years in a fourth. Every year he would leave her for an extended period of time. It is now a year that he has left her and she hasn’t heard from him. In this last year that he has deserted her she has come under the influence of Torah and she has become a religiously observant Jew and she can not possibly obtain a Get from her husband. Is it possible for her to remarry based on the fact she never was married according to halacha?

Igros Moshe (IV #80) Question In the matter of a woman who is known as a single and never married woman, she claims that she once got married on a trip to Florida to a man she was travelling with in a city in North Carolina which is populated entirely by non Jews. The marriage was civil. She lived with him for just two days, the time it took to get to Florida. When they reached Florida they separated from each other. Answer Since the entire question arises from believing her testimony; it is clear from that same testimony that there was no Marriage according to halacha. There is also no concern to be strict because of the claim that it wasn’t fornication since it was only two days and they obviously didn’t view it as marriage. In addition there were no valid witnesses. She is permitted to marry anyone without any concern. 

Concerning the woman who came to you to be married. She had been married for 13 years to another man and then he deserted her and left her an aguna.  According to your investigation, the witnesses on the kesubah were invalid. The marriage was performed by a Conservative Chazon who is therefore  presumed to be a heretic . There were no valid witnesses at the wedding except the grandfather of the groom and the brother in law. The caterer was also a Shabbos transgressor and for the 13 years they lived together it was amongst goyim and they didn’t know observant Jews. Thus there is no problem if you perform the marriage. Regarding the question of allowing a Reform rabbi to say a beracha under the chupa? His beracha is nothing since he is a heretic . Thus one should not even say amen to it. 

Igros Moshe (EH I #75) Question A woman who was only married by a secular procedure and she lived with him for two months in a place where there are no Jews and afterwards she lived alone for for three and a half years and then returned to her husband and lived for five years in a place where there were Jews but they had no interaction with religious Jews except for perhaps a few. Then he left her and she lived alone for half a year. Her husband returned and they lived in a place without religious Jews. They knew nothing about religion at all. Afterwards they lived in Los Angeles in a neighborhood that had some religious Jews for eight years in four places. A year in one place two years in a second place two years in a third and three years in a fourth. Every year he would leave her for an extended period of time. It is now a year that he has left her and she hasn’t heard from him. In this last year that he has deserted her, she has come under the influence of Torah and she has become a religiously observant Jew and she can not possibly obtain a Get from her husband. Is it possible for her to remarry based on the fact she never was married according to halacha? Answer Since she lived for five years in a place she had Jewish neighbors who knew that she and her husband were Jews, even though they didn’t interact with religious Jews, but there is a concern that there were religious Jews in the neighborhood who knew they that they were living together in their house as husband and wife. Additionally they had dependent children and all their neighbors knew that they were her children and that her husband was their father and she was called Mrs ploni with his last name in other words the wife of ploni. Furthermore afterwards she lived in Los Angeles for a time in a neighborhood that had religious neighbors. So even though he deserted her many times, it is reasonable that the neighbors knew when he returned to live with her and that she was always called by his name. This is obviously true since it is unusual that a husband regularly deserts his wife every year for an extended time and then comes back. So they obviously were aware of his return. Consequently if there were religious Jews She needs to obtain a Get based on the concept that people usually aren’t involved in fornication and thus they intended all intercourse to be part of marriage. If it is possible we require a Get even for the irreligious. However if it is impossible to obtain a Get and she would be an agunah it seems we can rely on the views regarding those that are irreligious, that they are not concerned with fornication and thus don’t require a Get.  However Rav Henkin requires a Get. But as I have explained elsewhere I disagree with him and don’t require a Get.  Therefore in this case where you have not been able to obtain a Get, She can remarry without a Get. But you should know my friend that if she will not agree to keep the laws of Nidah you should have no further involvement with her since you are assisting her violation of the laws of Nidah. In addition all the leniencies allowed for Agunah probably would not be valid for her but are only for the religious why should there be leniencies to enable transgressions?. This issue needs additional investigation. But clearly if she agrees to keep Nidah you can be involved if you have established the fact that there was no Torah marriage but only a civil ceremony. 

Igros Moshe (IV #81) Question A single woman who came from Russia and lived with a man for about a year after a civil marriage. Answer It has no halachic significance. 1)My view is that the irreligious are not concerned with avoiding fornication even if the lack of concern is the result of ignorance of religious laws and thus there is no intent that intercourse is done with the intent of marriage. And those Jews who came from Soviet Russia the reasoning of Rav Henkin doesn’t apply since they live normally in a licentious manner since there is no concept of marriage as they think that the relationship ends by simply walking away from it for any reason. Sometime the government itself separates a couple if it thinks that the husband and wife needs to work in different cities. Thus the couple is not viewed as actual unit. Therefore if it is difficult to obtain a Get, or there are reasons not to wait for a Get. They are to be viewed as available for marriage. It is self understood there is no need to strive for a heter for to the licentious  and surely not for those lacking in being serious in their commitment to marriage. You should only be interest in helping those who are committed to conduct themselves in the future according to the laws of the Torah and observe Nidah. 

3 comments :

  1. "if she will not agree to keep the laws of Nidah you should have no further involvement with her since you are assisting her violation of the laws of Nidah."

    wasn't this question asked of Rav Yaakov, who said that it is still better to marry Jewish than to outmarry, even if they do not keep niddah?
    Is it assur to have any contact with people who don't observe niddah?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That wasn't the point. He is wondering if a rabbi should facilitate sin by marrying an irreligious couple. Similarly should you propose a shidduch for a couple who wont' keep nida. Should you as a therapist reconcile an irreligious couple?

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    2. So a bit like giur..
      In Israel everyone has to marry by the rabbanut. Most are not completely observant.
      What if you are a doctor, can you facilitate sin by treating a chiloni?

      Delete

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