Discusses the meaning of infidelity - even for happily married couples - and the motivation in modern times for an affair when marriage is defined as based on love and trust - and the psychological devastation it causes. Her points clearly apply also to divorce - especially the idea of not being in pain in a marriage but rather "I can do better" I can recapture the excitement that has been lost" - with someone else. [see http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/fashion/Sex-Esther-Perel-Couples-Therapy.html?_r=0]
Basically explains Sanhedrin (57a): Rab Judah said in Rab's name: A man once conceived a passion for a certain woman,3 and his heart was consumed by his burning desire [his life being endangered thereby]. When the doctors were consulted, they said, ‘His only cure is that she shall submit.’ Thereupon the Sages said: ‘Let him die rather than that she should yield.’ Then [said the doctors]; ‘let her stand nude before him;’ [they answered] ‘sooner let him die’. ‘Then’, said the doctors, ‘let her converse with him from behind a fence’. ‘Let him die,’ the Sages replied ‘rather than she should converse with him from behind a fence.’ Now R. Jacob b. Idi and R. Samuel b. Nahmani dispute therein. One said that she was a married woman; the other that she was unmarried. Now, this is intelligible on the view, that she was a married woman, but on the latter, that she was unmarried, why such severity? — R. Papa said: Because of the disgrace to her family. R. Aha the son of R. Ika said: That the daughters of Israel may not be immorally dissolute. Then why not marry her? — Marriage would not assuage his passion, even as R. Isaac said: Since the destruction of the Temple, sexual pleasure has been taken [from those who practise it lawfully] and given to sinners, as it is written. Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.
sexual pleasure has been taken [from those who practise it lawfully] and given to sinners, as it is written. Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.
ReplyDeleteDoes modern psychology have a view on this point?
what exactly does this point say? that it is impossible for frum people to have any pleasure?
ReplyDelete@David - that was exactly the point of my comment and is addressed at length by Esther Perel
ReplyDelete@Eddie - obviously frum people have pleasure. But as Eshter Perel points out the intensity of pleasure and the continuation of pleasure is stronger with an adulterous affair
ReplyDeleteHer comments elucidate the point of the gemora very well
Is Esther Perel a doctor of mental health? I heard her viewpoint on this point but is her viewpoint the standard view of modern psychology?
ReplyDelete3 things are a taste of Olam Haba -
ReplyDeleteShabbat
The blue sky
Marital relations
I would therefore argue that we have B'H a healthy balance of pleasure, although the illicit can be overpowering. (I have yet to watch the TED video).