Thursday, March 19, 2015

Satanic child abuse - Is there a ring of such pedophiles operating in Sanhedria Murchevet?

 update:Added an ocr'ed version of Rav Berkowitz talk The Hebrew phrases were not converted properly but it is still understandable . - it is for those who are not able to read the Scribd version

 A few years ago Jerusalem was shocked to hear allegations of a ring of Satanic pedophiles in Nachlaot. This allegedly involved missionaries and secret tunnels and hundreds of victims. At this stage is is not clear what actually happened because of the mass hysteria which led to behavior which messed up a reasonable possibility of a proper police investigation. Parents were interrogating their children with very direct questions - which we know is not the way to get at the truth. There were people accused, there are people who went to jail and there are many children who have been given treatment. But again - it is not clear what actually happened.

A similar situation apparently has occurred in Sanhedria Murchevet. Apparently most of the response to the allegation is the direct result of the leadership of Rav Yitzchok Berkovitz. Unfortunately just as with Nachlaot  there is not much evidence to verify there is in fact a ring of of child abusers.  The police have been informed - but they also don't see any clear evidence. Rav Berkovitz kept the news of these allegations from the public in the hope of being able to identify who the perpetrators are. He hired a private detective. My sources indicate that nothing of significance has come from this paternalistic approach. I was told that it was only due to the clear failure of the secret approach that Rav Berkovitz made the information public several weeks ago. 

I find it astounding that if in fact there is a ring or even the suspicion of such a ring - that parents should not have been informed about it and the community given a chance to take protective measures.

  These are the recordings of the public revelation that there are allegations of a pedophile ring in Sanhedria Murchevet- the first is Rav Berkovitz and the second is a psychologist - Dr. Nitai Melamed.

Rav Yitzchok Berkovitz

update  March 12, 2015
 it was just brought to my attention that "Dr Nitai Melamed the psychologist" is not a doctor nor a psychologist.He is a psychodrama therapist. I just deleted the incorrect titles
. Nitai Melamed

Update - the story appeared recently on Kikar HaShabbat

http://www.kikar.co.il/165607.html

http://www.kikar.co.il/165723.html


update included the transcript   Rabbi Yitzchok Berkovitz (transcript)


Rav Berkowitz speaks about SRA (Sadistic Ritual Abuse a.k.a Satanic Ritual Abuse)
I'm not here tonight DlJlJT.l Knesses Yehuda - I have not come to defend the cheder. I'm here cause I'm worried. For some two years, along with a small group of people, I've been walking around with the burden of a very painful, dangerous and difficult situation in Yerushalayim. One of our greatest fears was that this would one day get out, before being solved - create panic, pandemonium - to the point that we are going to end up doing more damage, to ourselves and our children, than the O'lllN.il a·v~.n, the perpetrators can possibly do. It seems that at this point this is the direction things are taking .... I'll do whatever I can tonight to try to share with you what is and what isn't going on. 
IY.lN. N.'7 DN. •'7 IX 1nx ax •'7 'IN. - 'N.JT p. pru: p.1 1r.iN. 0'71J '711. At this point, I'm dealing with something quite explosive. I'm very much afraid to tell you what I'm going to tell you tonight. At the same time, it seems that if I don't, things are going to be far worse. I've discussed some of these things with select people, sometimes of groups of people, when absolutely necessary, with the hope that it wouldn't go further. At this point in time, I have no choice other than speak in public. 
There's nothing dearer to us - to Yidden - there's nothing dearer to us than our own children. Their gashmius, their ruchniyus. When we feel that our children are threatened, we become - of course, l'havdil - we become like a bear, who thinks that its offspring are being threatened. All of our instincts take over, to the point that we're dangerous, to the point that we're frantic and don't know what we're doing, to the point that we don't think straight, to the point that we hurt ourselves and, once again, even our children - and everyone around us. 
I'm appealing tonight to all of you - baruch hashem, the angle community here in yerushalayim, we take pride in the fact that we are a mature, highly intelligent group of people - men and women. I'm appealing to your sense of reason - please, please, allow your seichel hayashar to hear, to process and to think, and overcome the instinctive hysteria, that once again is causing so much damage to everyone involved, and, cholila, has the potential to spread throughout Yerushalayim, and Hashem knows, chas v'shalom, can happen here. If all of Yerushalayim goes into hysteria ... And it's not just us, it's going to reach the locals, and we have kano'im among us, and it has happened before ... in the present atmosphere - where everyone becomes a suspect - I'm sure people are going to get beaten, cholila someone can die! We have to come back to using our seichel, we have to calm down - despite the fact that we're talking about our children, and we're talking about something very serious. So I'm appealing to your seichel hayashar. 
Listen, I'm not going to keep secrets, I'm going to give you the gory details - but I'm also going to tell you what's not going on, I'd also like you to understand the proportions, I'd also like you to understand what can and cannot be done, what should be done, and what should not be done. 
At the end of ;i."vl!m 1011, I received a phone call, a phone call from one of the yungerleit in the neighborhood, a member of the ·kehilla, someone whose family I know very well, I know every one of the children. He tells me, his daughter seems like she's trying to say something, his daughter sounds like someone hurt her, but he doesn't quite understand. I recommended that the daughter be brought to a woman I know that specializes in molestation, works primarily in chutz la'aretz, but happens to be here a good part of the year- I sent her there. 
After a session that lasted hours, I get a phone call from this therapist, and she says -I took out the teddy bears, and this girl described to me an act of oines, nothing less, with all the details - to the very end, including how they cleaned her up, and what hurt and when. In the conversation, what also emerged was that this happened many times. 
Obviously, I was shaken. I immediately phoned Mrs. Coopersmith from the children's unit at Neve, someone I always consulted with in issues of child psychology. I said I understand this is something that cannot go unreported - what do I do? She said, you've got to go the TI'i1 m;ti1'1 D1Yl, a place that was set up for interrogating children, rather than the police station .... social worker's there, a police representative. Something that's supposed to be a little more user-friendly for the kid. The girl was traumatized by the initial session with the therapist. The parents were even more traumatized. It took a lot of convincing - they went. The girl was once again traumatized - and said nothing. She wouldn't say anything. So I was informed, there's not much that can be done, because the girl isn't talking. 
At home, she continued to talk, and she started mentioning names of friends who were there at the same time and shared the experience. We contacted the parents. I urged them to bring their kids to the 1'1•11 mm'7 n1YJ as well. It wasn't easy. It's not something that parents feel like doing. They went, three girls went all together - no one said a word - even though one of them said she was eager to talk to someone. Apparently, the atmosphere is not especially user friendly for chareidi kids, and the question is altogether how much they're in tune with children, with young children, and especially those who have experienced something traumatic, and are not so open to talking. They claim that they're limited by the rules, the laws. In order for a child's testimony to be accepted in court, they have to ask the parents to leave. Without the parents there, to speak in front of strangers, especially a kid who is now afraid of strangers because of what was done to her, to expect her to talk, it's a bit far-fetched. So they were traumatized needlessly a second time - didn't say a word. 
What do you do? - there's nothing you can do with the police. I hired a private investigator. Not a top-notch one, I was doing this on my own - they're very expensive. So first, he brought into the neighborhood "mashkifim", people standing around with binoculars looking to see what's doing. I was getting phone calls from all over the place, there are some different looking people around the neighborhood with binoculars, should we call the police? Called the investigator-you don't understand, that's not going to work here. 
So next, he put these hidden cameras around the neighborhood, today you can get a camera the size of a button or smaller, he put them on rocks in different places. Lots to watch, nothing that would shed light on what happened. 
So he moved on, he said that he was going to do intelligence work. You know, Sanhedria Murchevet is full of machsanim, people make a little extra money, they have a room, in some of these machsanim you have single people living, they are the first suspects, let's find out who they are and do a police check on them. 
He gets back to me - I've got your guy. Yeah, there's someone there with a police record, he was accused by his 9-year old daughter of molestation, he lives in a building just where these people live, he's your guy. He does some more work - he got onto the guys computer, expecting to find shmutz, instead he found something far worse. This was an avreich, and he had shticklech torah of why it was all mutter. l'lJ:l lJ:rm [nuo ,'.:t rue nruns » it's nothing. rruan '•1J9 - eh, the Rambam's shitta, he's wrong, rov rishonim don't hold that way. And he left off at the end, if I'm mistaken, then it's a ta'us in halacha, but it's not yetzer hara. 
We've got our guy! I run to the police, with the report from the therapist, the disc of what's on this guy's computer, I checked first with the 1'71i1 m.:til'7 TJiY.l, spoke to a n•11:1.1n, the police woman there, she got in touch with a 1j71n at the police, they were waiting for me, I came there, testified for a long time, pages and pages and pages ... they take a look at the report - one minute, this woman isn't licences to practice in Israel, it's disqualified. The CD - that was obtained illegaly, that doesn't count. We feel very bad, but there's not much we can really do for you. 
I realized that wasn't going to work. I got in touch with one of the askonim in narrun 'rrrruo, Yosef Shoruk, a good man to know, and he brought to the house the person in charge of intelligence, for the police, but their intelligence unit, for the whole, not just the neighborhood, but the whole area. He comes to the house, hears the story, he said he'll check into it, worked quick, within days the man was out of the neighborhood. I asked him, where is he, I mean, what neighborhood did you send him to. He said, he sent him to family, he thinks he's safe. We thought all was fine and dandy. We got the guy, it would have been nice to see him in prison, but at least he's out of the neighborhood, the place is safe, nothing to talk about. 
Now, this girl was traumatized by the first therapist. We realized that we needed something a little gentler for her. A person that was contacted was someone, a world class trauma specialist, Dr. Dani Kahn, who happens to often work with one of the speech therapists in the neighborhood, who happened to be working with this girl as well, and he suggested that since this girl has a relationship with her, let the speech therapist work with her, he will tell her how you do such therapy, he'll supervise it, he'll be there for many of the sessions, he wants it all videoed and he's going to view the videos as well, just in order to establish the right kind of climate for a kid who has undergone such trauma, to get some healthy therapy. And that's what happened, and in play therapy we start hearing a whole different story. Perhaps it was good that we got this, this character out of the neighborhood, but it sounds like, that's not what happened. 
The girl starts talking, slowly, in the language of a little girl, she was talking about how she was taken, taken out of the neighborhood, some of the time she was here, some of the time she was taken out of the neighborhood. Now, it's very difficult to really know exactly what you accept for little kids and what not. When you're dealing with young children, I mean, you know your kids. They're so sweet, and they talk so much narishkeit. It's very difficult to be able to sift out what's for real, what's real, what's accurate, and what's not. What's stam, what's fantasy. Part of what she told was, that she was given things to drink ... at one point, in one of her therapy sessions, she actually showed up, and the therapist said - this girl is drugged. The mother confirmed that night, that she found a needle mark on her. Apparently, part of whatever was done to her, involved drugging her first. 
But she talked about a lot of kids together, things being done to them of the same sort. Now, although we question the reliability of little kids, when a young child starts describing things that she clearly knows nothing about other than by the fact that she experienced it, something she never heard about in school and never heard about at home, and at that age, you don't have the wise aleck that knows everything, we're talking about little kids! - there are things that she described that she had to have experienced, and we accept that 100%. 
But then she said, she's scared to talk, because they took a cat and slaughtered it in front of her and told her they'd do the same to her if she tells her parents. And she was taken to a fire, and brought closer and closer until it really hurt, and told that if she tells, then she's going to get thrown into that fire. 
And she told of this happening many times. Where? That's where there's a lot of confusion. At one point, she was talking about this big building with lots of steps, colored windows. She talked of being taken to a pool. This sounded very much like stories that we had heard from Nachla'ot. Honestly, I was given a lot of literature about what happened in nachla'ot. I read through it, and decided that this is surreal, no level-headed human being can believe it, and it's therefore untrue. I was unwilling to deal with it. The problem was that when we started hearing these stories, it sounded identical, it sounded exactly like what the kids in nachla'ot testified to. 
With time, this girl wasn't alone, more girls spoke, and we realized there was a real problem with girls of the ganim in the neighborhood. It did not seem that things were happening in gan, it sounded much like it was a matter of on the way home. And we checked. It seems that the girls were coming home together, a bunch of little girls, no adults. How long did it take them to come home? How long does it take kids to come home from gan? There are so many interesting things on the way. It never occurred to the parents if it takes an hour to get home within the neighborhood, that's something to worry about. 
My wife went out a couple of days when kids come home from gan, pretty much at the center of the neighborhood. You know, we have Tzafon, shiras devora, a bunch of ganim, there are hundreds of girls out on the street at the same time - my wife said she was the only adult there. We realized that parents had to be made aware of the fact that the streets are not safe, and you got to protect your children.
I consulted with the professionals that I know, that I had experience working with, some knew people I got to know, I asked for names ... to get to speak to the parents. It wasn't an easy thing, we had to get someone who on the one hand, would be respected by people as sharing our hashkafa, at least to a certain extent, it's got to be a professional, it's got to be someone who will tell it like it is, on the one hand, without causing panic. 
We organized an evening for the women in Sanhedria Murchevet, we brought in Dr. Aviva Shechter. Many parents took it to heart and stopped allowing their kids to go to school alone. It seemed that many of the kids had learning disabilities and that they were targets. 
Well, it didn't stop there. We started finding out that Sanhedria Murchevet is not the only neighborhood where this is happening. We found out that this was going on in Givat Shaul, in Romema, in Neve Ya'akov. Same kinds of stories. We then found that in many of these neighborhoods, among the kids that were speaking up, there were many who were in chinuch meyuchad, in special ed. Once again, it sounds like these are prime targets. It became clear that this was not happening in the actual ganim of chinuch meyuchad. There were too many people around, and these were trustworthy people. What we did find out was that the lriya, the municipality, provides, they have a private company that provides transportation. The drivers are chiloni, and so is the melave - which is also very interesting, there's a melave for a tender full of girls. In other words - two frei men, on a tender full of girls. Often, they changed tenders in the middle of the way. And, there were many reports of kids coming back an hour late, and always some feeble excuse - of traffic, got stuck, got lost, a new driver. It seemed that this was happening quite regularly. The Sulam system filed many reports, with nnnn n)l!.l'7, the different nD1u'7 throughout Yerushalayim. Sulam has several ganim in Yerushalayim and there were reports coming from all over. We tried passing the word around - you don't use the municipal transportation for special ed, they are unsafe. 
All right, so there's the ganim, there was special ed, and then, we started getting stories from boys in the chadorim. Primarily little boys, young boys, the same kind of thing, some described things happening on the tender, some described being taken out of the cheder. Once again, we are talking about not only Sanhedria Murchevet, not only Knesses Yehuda - in fact, the vast majority of the stories around, the vast majority of the boys that have spoken up, are not from knesses Yehuda. 
Now, here again, there's a lot we know, and there's even more we don't know. You're talking about children. A 3 Y, year old tells you he was taken up to the second floor in building 138, to an apartment whose interior was all blue, with blue chairs, and there were animals running around. What do you do with that? Walk around 138, neither kenisa on the second floor has an apartment that's all blue. What do you accept, what do you not accept? And not only are we dealing very often with 3 Y, year olds, but they all seem to be saying that they were given something to drink, or there are needle marks. 
By the way, I was consulted by kupat cholim here, the local kupa, they said that they had to report, they had to report a kid that came in with a needle mark, they wanted to know, like, do the Rabbonim approve of reporting - if they're not going to report they're going to close down the kupa. I said report! Report, get the police involved! Let's see if they can do something. We're getting nowhere with them. Every single parent that was sent to the police, a month later, gets a letter, nl'lf") IOlnYl l:lOJ j7'ni1. The kids are not talking, they don't talk at the police. What goes on at the therapists, doesn't matter to them, it's called eidut mezuhemet - for all you know, the therapist told them what to say. And there are people around Yerushalayim that claim that the therapists made this whole thing up. A therapist with a lot of imagination is getting the kids to say these things. I have one problem with accepting that theory - too many kids have told their parents the whole story before they got to a therapist. 
When I say the whole story, so I'm going to go back and fill in some details now. It seems like there's a cult operating throughout Yerushalayim. This is nothing less than a cult. We're not dealing with pedophiles here. We're dealing with a sadistic cult. Their exact agenda is difficult to know - baruch hashem, our minds don't work that way. 
What we have figured out are several things: 
Number one: their first concern is to protect themselves. They therefore choose very young kids, and if possible, kids that seem insecure, kids with learning disabilities, children who even if they do speak up, people will probably not take too seriously. They are also easier to manipulate. Second, of course, they scare them to death. They threaten to kill them - and their parents. Third, and this is what's most frightening, they use all sorts of technology, and systems, for compartmentalizing their brain, so that whatever they're experiencing remains subconscious, conscious on only a certain level, and the other part of their brain is totally unaffected by it, so that they won't talk. This seems quite clear, we've even discovered a lot of the technology. So kids don't naturally talk up. 
Where do they speak? They have nightmares, there's bedwetting, major shifts in behavior - or sometimes they actually talk, depending on the way the kid thinks and feels. That very first child who spoke up, happens to have some kind of Issue where her emotions were not that attached to her seichel, so she was able to talk freely at a certain point. 
What are they doing to them other than just protecting themselves? They destroy the child's entire sense of seder and values. They create total confusion. The kid walks away not knowing who the good guys are, who the bad guys are. Many of the kids initially claim that their parents were the perpetrators. If we take the kids literally, there should at least be 40 fathers in Sanhedria Murchevet either behind bars or at least away from their home. They talk of their Rebei'im as being perpetrators. If not their Rebbe'im, some other Rebbi. By name. The perpetrators confuse them. They use names, the names of the Rebbe'im in the neighborhood. They're a little mixed up sometimes. You can have a kid in one cheder, who talks about a Rebbi is another cheder, because the perpetrators are using that name. They have a "Tzaddik", they have a "Rabbee", they have "Papa" - these are common names they're using. The kids are totally mixed up. They tell them that their parents are evil, and they're good. They tell them not to listen to their parents. And then comes religion. They tell them to be mechalel shabbos. They tell them to stop making brachos. They tell them that they're not Jewish. 
Whether or not they actually baptize them is hard to know. Kids have talked about pools. It's hard to know. And we have to be very clear: let's not jump to conclusions on our own. I know imaginations run wild. We don't know. There are things out on the street that this is all a plot, and it's the pope that's on top of it. Rabbosai, rabbosai, the more we use our imagination, the less credibility we're going to have. 
But we do know that they're attacking religion. And everything - they are just completely destroying everything that is sacred to the child. The child is left totally confused. Understand that the therapy necessary - I heard this from one of the most experienced therapists in Yerushalayim, a child psychologist in Yerushalayim, a very wise Israeli woman, she says - what you have to do is rebuild every value they've got because everything is destroyed. 
And of course, they're self-confidence is nonexistent. Many of them regress academically, because they're so insecure.
If that isn't bad enough, we go further. We don't know exactly what they're indoctrinating them with, but we certainly know how they're doing it. One of the most effective ways of getting something into one's subconscious is through pain. L'havdil - C)?C1 'ffTY.l'71U ;nm - when you learn under stress and pain, that's engraved on your heart, it becomes part of you, it's so deep that you'll never lose it. Torture is one of the most effective means of reaching someone's subconscious. Whatever it is that they're indoctrinating them with subconsciously, they do it through torture, and this is where I mentioned we're not just dealing with pedophiles, we're dealing with sadists. The kids are tortured. Exactly what it is, we don't know. Again, there are lots of animals there. We know that they're forced to do all kinds of things, and there are things are done to them that are terribly painful. And at the time, we don't know what it is exactly that they're telling them, but it's there in their subconscious. 
Here too, there are those who claim that we're dealing with missionaries and what they're trying to do is convert them that in another generation, chas v'shalom, all the chareidi kids in Yerushalayim are going to be members of another religion. Maybe. We don't know. We don't know and let that be very clear. 
Where is this taking place? Once again, a drugged 3 Y2 year old doesn't really know. We don't know for sure. We don't know where it's taking place. Word is out on the street that there are 14 apartments in Sanhedria Murchevet where things are happening all the time. If anyone knows where these apartments are, please let me know. We do not have a clue as to where anything is happening. The kids are so mixed up. They're so mixed up as to where they are. Once again, they're describing places, in Sanhedria Murchevet, ... such places don't exist here. 
And that's only our neighborhood. Once again, there are kids from all over. In recent months, it has spread all over. We're hearing from Ramat Shlomo, we're hearing from Sorotzkin, it's all over Yerushalayim. 
How many kids are we talking about? Let's get it straight again: there's what we know, and there's what we don't know. There are a lot of kids whose parents reported that they spoke. Of those, many of them were sent for therapy, nothing really much has surfaced. Some therapists, who are very sensitive to nuances have suspicions, and they may even warn parents and shake them up, but even, even according to those therapists - they don't know. We are talking about tens of kids who have actually spoken up and described everything I've told you about. Tens of kids. How much is it? There are those who want to say we're talking about hundreds of kids all over Yerushalayim ... We don't know. 
Now, having heard all this, I want you to understand. I've been involved in this, I said, for about two years now. When I heard what kids were saying about different Rebbe'im in the cheder, what I said was, you have to talk to people who know what's going on. You've got to understand, that when a 3 Yi year old talks about his Rebbi doing something to him, if it's anything that smells like what we're talking about, it doesn't mean all that much. That doesn't mean you just forget about it, you look into it, you look into it, but that doesn't mean that you've got a bunch of perpetrators around. None of the Rebbe'im are suspected pedophiles, we have absolutely no reason to think so. Most of the kids that named Rebbe'im, named them as watching when it happened. Even that is far-fetched - we find it hard to believe that things are going on in the chadorim - on the scale that the kids are describing - it doesn't fit. Once again, we're talking about young kids who are drugged. If you take everything that they tell you literally you're going to find yourself with lots of confusion. There are lots of stiros. Their timing is totally off - kids have a hard time with timing anyway. Their time, the place, the personalities - they're off. 
I maintained to begin with that we're doing injustice to the staff of this cheder, or any other cheder where it's about to happen, cause once again, the stories are coming out of all the chadorim, and to be honest, there are fewer stories coming out of Knesses Yehuda than a lot of other chadorim in Yerushalayim. If everyone is going to start panicking and accusing every Rebbi of being a pedophile because a kid here said something, or allegedly said something, we're in trouble. We're going to be doing more damage to ourselves than the perpetrators are. 
(Spoke about the precautions being taken in knesset Yehuda ... ) 
Rumor is out on the street that either myself or the people I work with, we believe that we should allow the perpetrators to do whatever they want so that one day we'll be able to catch them. I can't say I haven't heard people believing in that... I cannot see how anyone can accept such a thing l'halacha, and I would never stand for it. That was not the plan. We have to protect our children. 
In terms of working with the police, there have been many attempts. It does not seem that they are too motivated. There are different theories about why the police are not motivated. The head of the detectives that I met with said - the police in blue are incompetent. So that's one approach. A second approach - this is scary, it's too big, they would rather not believe it than get involved. There are those who accuse them of actually cooperating with the perpetrators. Listen - although, I'll have to say, some of my experiences may support that, I'm not one for conspiracies. There are people walking around writing pamphlets about how half of Yerushalayim is in on this conspiracy, it goes all the way from the pope, to a bunch of choshuve Rabbonim in Yerushalayim, they're all in cahoots ... I am sorry, Rabbosai, let's not lose our minds.
There's a dangerous cult around. It doesn't seem like the police are going to help us. Whatever other means we're trying to use, to employ, to catch them - they haven't worked yet. Of course, we're hopeful. Our responsibility at this point in time is to protect our children. That is our prime responsibility.
The way to protect our children is, or course, making sure they're not hefker. Little kids cannot be out on the street alone! I'm sorry to disappoint everyone. You came to Yerushalayim, but you're going to have to forget the old attitude that Yerushalayim is safe. 3 year olds, 4 year olds, 5 year olds, 6 year olds, 7 year olds cannot walk around alone! There have to be adults around. You want them to play outside? - all you need is one adult who's watching them. And by the way, it's got to be an adult who's watching them - we had things happening in the parks, Shabbos afternoon - there were a bunch of women there, the kids were playing, someone came over- it had nothing to do with this - but someone came over, someone came over and did something with the kids. Where were the mothers? - involved in some very interesting conversation. Nobody was looking. Nobody was looking! You got to watch your kids. 
I have to tell you something, we brought one family to an Adam Gadol for chizuk. They're broken, they're broken, their kid is talking, their kid is messed up. He looked at them and his first reaction is, why don't you watch your kids?! Kids are hefker! Now, of course, a broken family needed divrei chizuk, and not that. But he's right. 
Kids have to be taught... - and let me tell you something else, there hasn't been a single report of a kid that was taken by force, and we think we know why. You got to hear this: we've been told, that in the state of Israel, if you offer a child a candy, he says thank you, and then you ask him to come with you in your car, and he goes along, you're not considered kidnapping, because it wasn't against his will. He's 3 Yi years old! But, eh, he agreed. These people are very careful not to do anything illegal. It starts with a candy, a toffee, a sticker, a drink ... crossing the street. 
Which is another one ... Kids here, they know, up to 9 you don't cross yourself. So what do you do?
Something even more dangerous than crossing yourself - you ask a stranger to cross you. Apparently, one of the first girls that we, that we actually heard from, said that there was this man that crossing this group of girls every day, every day he was there when they needed to cross. He was crossing them every day, and they got to know him. And then one day he said come with me. 
We even have to teach our children - I know this is terrible - we have to teach our children not to do chessed. If a stranger comes and says, "oi, this is too heavy, could you help me shlep it up the stairs?", you have to say, I have to ask my parents. I know it's a terrible thing, it's a terrible thing, we're telling our kids not to do chessed. It's sakanas nefashos! We got to watch our children. We can't be mafkir our kids! 
At the same time, you can't live in fear. Listen, I'm not a therapist, although I must say, I've heard many ... I've been given many private lectures from many professionals over the past two years. I've learnt a lot. I've learnt to respect a lot of people. One of the things I've learnt is how damaging panic is. Nervous parents mean nervous children. Nervous parents mean insecure children. When there's panic, not only are you imagining that everyone out there is a monster, but so are they. They pick up on it. 
You got to be calm. You're going to tell me, how can you be calm after hearing what I told you? 
Very simple. If your kid is not having nightmares, and your kid is not bedwetting, and there are no major changes in personality, and it's the same, good ... gets up to trouble here and there, a mischievous kid, but the same kid that you've known all the years -your kid's ok, nothing has happened. 
Don't start interrogating your kids and giving them ideas - some parents have done that too. You give them ideas- they'll go for it - they'll be even more creative than you are! 
You just have to know that the cheder is safe, and anyplace else they go to is safe, and they're not out alone. At what age can your kids go out alone? A strong, mature 10-11 year old ... ok, better a little later, but that, ok. Nothing less than that. What kid can be trusted to take care of younger kids? This Dr. Shechter than spoke to the women said - a kid that is old and strong enough to save the younger kids from a fire .... Ok? 
We have to train our kids over and over, not to take things, not to go with people, and to talk to us. 
(Spoke about security at Knesset Yehuda ... ) 
(Knesses Yehuda is doing) ... what we hope every cheder is going to do. And that is: install cameras, have someone watching them!, be careful about attendance being taken regularly. Of course, the doors cannot be open, the shomer has to be very careful who he allows in. That's all very important.
If the cheder is safe, you got to make sure they're getting there in a safe way. (Spoke about transportation at Knesset Yehuda.) ... if the cheder's safe, make sure they get there safely. If your kids walk to cheder, make sure they're not walking alone. 
(Spoke about other schools in the neighborhood with the girls' schools and ganim.) Kids cannot be coming home alone from gan. Anyone who is in gan, cannot come home alone, and a bunch of gan kids together are not safe either. 
(Spoke more about Knesset Yehuda.) 
The ribono shel olam should help us all. Once again, I've told you everything. I said, ,-m1N ON •'] '11'< lY.UN x'7 ON •'7 'IN, I hope I haven't said too much, but if I wouldn't tell you the whole truth, I think that would be doing you a disservice at this point. 
Understand, most of what you're hearing about in the street is rumor, speculation, some of it is totally not true, some of it is "who knows". A lot of the kids, even that have spoken up, we don't know if they're part of this or not. There are a lot of unknowns. What we have to do is secure our cheders, secure our bais ya'akovs, and take care of our own children. And daven. 
The Ribono she! olam, should be '7•y1)1 ll'.lll!.l, all of us, our children ... Here we are, a community that came to Yerushalayim from Chutz La'aretz, probably, among other reasons, but the most important one is because we believe this is where we want to raise our children, these are the values we want them to grow up with. The Ribono shel olam should be ~'7nn our sincere desires to raise our children il~JrljD. mnuar, to be healthy, happy, productive members of Kial Yisrael and ovdei Hashem Yisbarach.

74 comments :

  1. Rabbi Eidenson,

    Please PLEASE help!

    You have in the past been instrumental in resolving horrible situations (Tropper, Kolko, etc.) so this is not a melodramatic plea. You DO have the ability to make changes.

    I am crying for how stupid these fellow jews make the rest of us look and how much harm they are doing by not getting to the bottom of the truth. They are unfortunately unsophisticated, uneducated with regard to the satanic accusations of the 80's in the U.S. and unaware of how it all played out. How even sophisticated people who should have known better have admitted to being ashamed for life of how they could have believed in such outlandish stuff.

    Have you listened to the tape of Rabbi Berkovitz?! He starts off right and says he didn't believe in in the Nachlaot Satanic ring because of how outlandish it sounded and acknowledges that kids are talking about impossible rooms of blue etc, but then he does a 180 and claims he believes in tens of apartments in Sanhedria filled with animals - none of which anyone has ever seen - and sophisticated technology - and a group who convinces 3 year old kids to be Mechallel Shabbos - wackier and wackier! He actually appeals to people to please tip him off if they know where any of the 20 (!) mystery apartments are!

    As usual - "unzere Haimishe" make up "boich svaras" when it comes to figuring things out, instead of getting an education - in this case by reading up on the the U.S. satanic ritual abuse cases of the 80's, the McMartin case, the phenomenon of moral panic, etc.

    Yes, if I would use my own "boich Svaros" I would also agree with Rabbi Berkovitz that this stuff must be true, that it couldn't be fabricated to such an extent. That is why I had to EDUCATE myself to find out the truth. To find out that thos same boich Svaros led people to put innocents in jail and destroy lives. That it turns out that such things can and WERE fabricated in the past. And I found out how embarrased reasonable people were years later and admitted "How I can I have believed something so obviously impossible?"

    Please, Rabbi Eidenson, please use your influence to stop this craziness so that the people about whom it is said "Mi Goi Godol Asher Lo Chukim, etc" does not look foolish and so that the real perpetrators (in all likelihood a few of the parents or melamdim - but probably very few - with the rest of the kids being talked into it by parents therapists and other friends who have been sharing...) can be brought to justice and our children can be protected.

    Let's not forget that the actual abusers (parent? uncle? teacher?) are laughing gleefully at those looking for a mysterious animal killing - threatening kids with fire - convincing kids to be mechallel Shabbos - drugging kids - blue painting furniture cult, instead of stopping the real perpetrators...

    HELP!!!!!

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  2. I agree with the other commentators here who are comparing this to the 80s ritual abuse scandals and day care abuse scandals. There are so many parallels. I find it shocking that Rabbi Berkowitz is saying these things without realizing how absurd it sounds. If this spreads frum society in Israel will suffer and the real perpetrators (the ones that actually exist) will get off scot free. This is very disturbing.

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  3. It's amateur hour.

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  4. I heard about this a couple of months ago. The particular story I heard was so incredible that it was hard to believe. A rebbi from the cheder deliberately kept a child locked outside in a secluded area where priests could come and molest him. How do parents not rise up and act to defend their own children?

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  5. what is your question? how do parents not defend thier kids from made up rumors you heard?

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  6. bull****, enough said

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  7. do any of the detractors know who R' Berkovitz is? Do you know his stature? I do. I'm not saying that to stand up for his kavod, rather to question those who are dismissing this story. Kol shekain that he has been involved with this for 2 years, and is publicizing it. it is bizaarre, and truly scary.

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  8. While Rabbi Berkowitz's stature is not in question, his ability to assess a situation of this type is worthy of being questioned. I would be more convinced if there was a professional who backed up his bizarre assertions of a city-wide satanic cult.

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  9. RDE: Can you make R. Berkovitz's transcript in Scribd downloadable? You might want to make, in your scribd settings, all documents be downloadable. It is easier to read and/or print as such. Thanks

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  10. Why hasn't Rabbi Berkovitz and others arranged many of the affected children to be carrying a small GPS transponder that remotely records every step they took and where they were at all times?

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  11. @Asher - no one is questioning Rav Berkovitz's stature as a talmid chachom or as being rational or that he is a really nice person etc.



    However there is nothing in his background that indicates that he is competent to be organizing an investigation into allegations of satanic child abuse. In particular I have not heard anything which justifies that he kept this a secret from the general public for two years!


    Furthermore there are serious questions of what exactly went on in the neighborhood schools and why they this wasn't on the agenda. Aside from critcising parents - why does he seem to assume that the schools were not negligent for how children are protected?



    Bottom line - contrary to what Rav Berkovitz states - his presentation was not a transparent putting of all the facts on the table.


    It would have been appropriate for the police and mental health professionals dealing with abuse to have taken charge(rather than just being consulted) and decided what is going on.

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  12. According to the above transcript, R. Berkovitz said the police were dismissive of the allegations when they were made aware of them.

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  13. It would have been appropriate for the police and mental health professionals dealing with abuse to have taken charge

    In the transcript, he claims that the police were dismissive. They refused to trust the therapist, since she was not licensed in Israel. They dismissed the evidence against the "yungerman", since it was taken without a warrant. (They did chase him out of the neighborhood.)

    In particular I have not heard anything which justifies that he kept this a secret from the general public for two years!

    I don't know if this justifies it or not, but it may be part of his reasoning.

    1) A child who had already spoken about the abuse (through the therapist..), still ended up being drugged with a mark of the injection! That means that the parents who knew that their child had been targeted still were unable/unwilling to properly protect their child! As such, what would publicizing it accomplish when you feel you're just a week away from the big break of completely cracking/solving this case?

    Meaning, he felt that a public notice, prior to the completion of the investigation would do little to protect the vulnerable, but would completely compromise the investigation that the police refused to do.

    2) Publicity brings about panic. Parents are bound to ask leading questions which would bring about many more non-abused claiming to have been abused. It would just lead to much confusion, without much protection.

    Bottom line - contrary to what Rav Berkovitz states - his presentation was not a transparent putting of all the facts on the table.



    This appears to be true. Has he refused to give you, therapists and rabbonim all the relevant information that he has?

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  14. @Honesty - he kept a secret from the public for two years - how does keeping it a secret for one week explain two years?

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  15. What is even stranger to me is that once the parents knew that their child had been targeted, how were they not able to protect their child from further abuse? How did that child end up drugged? Whoever the sick perpetrator is, the case is truly sad.

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  16. You're right. However, he may have continuously felt that he is just a moment away from finally solving the case. I may be misreading, but the feeling I got from reading the transcript is that he still sort of feels that he was so close to actually catching the perps and just needed a bit more time.

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  17. He seems to have, with entirely good intentions, undertaken something that was completely beyond his ability to cope with. Hiring a private detective! (And a mediocre one to boot!) Puh-leeze.

    Rabbonim are not policemen or private eyes. Such matters must be handed over to the proper authorities. They are the only ones equipped to deal with these things, however imperfectly. And to those who complain that the police were not responsive -- well, they might have suspected something the "askonim" didn't -- namely, that the accusations were wild and without foundation, and did not make much sense.

    Here's another point. Acc. to R' Berkowitz, they put cameras out in the public spaces where these abductions were supposedly happening, but saw nothing amiss. Isn't that evidence that something is very fishy about the story?

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  18. Rabbonim should not be playing Hardy Boys. It's ludicrous.

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  19. I guess that you didn't hear the story from two parents in the school who had it verified. Sorry.
    You know what? The whole thing is probably made up. Just stick your head under the pillow and go back to sleep.

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  20. Bringing priests and the Catholic church into this is a blood libel in reverse.

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  21. @Ishe Mibeis Levi - since you claim to know what is going on in the community - what measures are being taken to protect the children e.g., parental supervision, clear guidelines for schools to know where each child is all the time etc In particular what has been done to identify failures in the schools?

    This reminds me of the famous Jewish Observer Issue which finally acknowledges the problem of kids at risk - but it began with a disclaimer that it was not going to blame the schools for the problem.

    Given the historic failure of schools to not only not deal with the problem of abuse but not even to acknowledge there was a problem - it would be helpful as part of "everything on the table" to specify what problem the schools have identified as well as what solution has been given.

    Clearly Rav Berlkovitz has taken the paternalistic view that the Rav is the appropriate person to decide what should be done - but I don't see in his response an acknowledgement of any aspect that the schools have contributed to this problem.

    There was another initiative that Rav Berlklovitz took not too long ago - which ended in failure. That was an attempt to prevent rising prices of apartment rentals in the neighborhood which was causing kollel couples be replaced by richer yuppies and thus changing the nature of the school population..

    Aside from the questionable halachic justification of this measure (the Chazon Ish holds such is gezel) - but it failed primarily because the community did not have the manpower to evaluate the price of rentals - something which should have been foreseen from the beginning.

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  22. If R' Berkovitz would do nothing, then he would be attack free. He has taken many initiatives that WERE successful, but this is not the forum to list them.
    I have no children of that age, so I know less than many, but I do know the basics that every parent in Sanhedria Hamurchevet knows. Every school has added security cameras (R' Berkovitz headed a drive to help a school pay for the cameras they claimed they could not afford). Just this week two additional cameras were added in one school. In another school, the security guard does not allow children to leave with an adult without the adult showing the identity card that proves that he is the parent of the child. Police were in one of the schools twice this week investigating a story. Over the past few weeks just about every school in the neighborhood has had meetings with the parents apprising them of what they are doing and reminding the parents of their own responsibilities-- and that is just what I know.
    To the best of my understanding, the issue -- at least the pedophile side of it -- is being faced squarely.

    Once again, there was a very difficult shikul hadaas involving mass panic and hotheaded reactions like in Nachlaot. Keeping it relatively quiet was certainly a reasonable conclusion. With 20-20 hindsight and without possession of all the information it is easy to criticize -- but not necessarily accurate.

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  23. You are flat-out wrong. I quote: "This is nothing less than a cult." "We're dealing with a sadistic cult."

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  24. A couple of questions. Maybe someone here could answer.
    1. Have any of the children that were claimed to have been drugged had their blood and urine analyzed? If not, why not?
    2. What kind of high tech machines do what Rav Berkovitz claims? Does such a machine exist?

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  25. Took the words right out of my mouth!
    Bloggers who spend all day blabbering about other people's research and experiences ALWAYS know better than those who live through it!

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  26. @Love it - so why don't you take your own advice and acknowledge that you are not competent to pass judgment on others?

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  27. Do you feel that he is completely off on this one - that there was no abuse at all? To me it seems clear that there was abuse going on. The question is who, what, when and where.


    Then you have the fact that he did see some success - they found the idiot's computer where he had all sorts of insanities that it's "OK" for him to destroy little kids. This was something that only came about through his PI.


    Emotions run very high when people hear of kids (or adults) being sexually abused. If the cops were unwilling to make an investigation, then he was going to do it, to the best of his ability, without causing hysteria.


    Did he get lost somewhere along the way? Did he overplay his necessary hand? I don't know enough, but it does sound plausible. However, I firmly believe that he was correct in doing whatever he could when no one else was willing to. He would be a murderer if he would have done nothing.

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  28. At what point did Dr. Aviva Schechter speak to the community? When was that evening for women that Rabbi Berkowitz organized? If this was about a year and a half ago, then it would seem as if Rabbi Berkowitz was doing all that could be done in order to notify the parents. It would have been highly irresponsible of him to have thrown out unverified accusations and theories without proof.

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  29. Some people here are highly sceptical based on the 'satanic cult' case in america. I fail to understand the comparison. No one is making claims involving cemeteries, hooded robes or chainsaws. Threatening or scaring children with pain and horror is so unbelievable? There a specific person was targeted. Usage of the, perhaps exaggerated term 'cult', does not automatically mean there isn't an organised group systemically abusing children.

    Perhaps you would be less sceptical if you would read british news about the gangs grooming and raping groups of children there. They are unfortunately relatively common in some areas. Do you accept the fact that it happens there? What makes you so sure it can't happen in israel too?

    One of you refused to believe that a 'rebbe' could deliver children for abuse. Why? what is so unbelievable and satanic about that? Because the 'customers' were priests? Just do some research, people unfortunately provide children for abuse. Maybe he did it for money. It happens.

    If you read the hebrew articles it appears that the children were even taken from schools and that someone doctored the school's security footage to hide it. These incidents can not be simply blamed on the parents lack of supervision.

    I find it rather disheartening that people here would rather believe that groups of parents are coaching their children and taking them to a rabbi so that... to get attention?

    Assuming no pointless parental conspiracy, multiple parents have brought their children forward before this was made public and you should try to take this with a little seriousness.

    I hope the children all have gps and are drug tested so that someone can get to the bottom of this.

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  30. 1. Have any of the children that were claimed to have been drugged had their blood and urine analyzed? If not, why not?


    In the transcript there was only case that he mentioned where they knew the kid was actually "high". In that case the therapist was shocked, and simply not in the frame of mind to have asked the little drugged and abused child for a urine sample.


    The other cases are where the Kupat Cholim found the syringe marks. The cops closed the cases about a month after each incident, due to "insufficient evidence".

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  31. What should he have done? Be satisfied with the cops closing the cases of children with syringe marks as mechusar reiyos?

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  32. You missed the sentence right before the one you quote! "It seems like there's a cult operating throughout Yerusholayim". He then explained what exactly that possibility means.


    In context it appears that Ish Mibeis Levi may be correct.

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  33. The GPS should have been done long ago. Do it now. Fit a bunch of kids with them and you'll have a record of everywhere they were. It cost about $100 a device and $10/month for service.

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  34. David, I hope the children all have gps and are drug tested also.

    However, the rest of your comment lacks education.

    First of all, the children in Britain were aged 11-15. They were groomed to have sex with. Not to convert to Christianity or whatever the purpose is that is suggested here.

    Secondly, from your comment, it seems you are not very aware of the dynamics of what took place in the day care centers in the United States. I strongly suggest you read No Crueler Tyrannies -Accusation, False Witness, and Other Terrors of our Times by Dorothy Rabinowitz, a Pulitzer prize winning columnist for the Wall Street Journal.

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  35. Another one from page 9: "There is a dangerous cult around. It doesn't seem like the police are going to help us."

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  36. Also, he did use the word "seems" that one time, but then for the next two pages wrote in great detail exactly what the cult is doing, both what he is sure of and what he is unsure of. So if you take "context" as the context of the document, and not just the context of those two sentences, it is patently obvious that he is claiming there is a cult.

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  37. @Yehuda - as I see you are someone who obviously doesn't know what is going on I find it strange that you insist on judging me. The fact is that there are many Rabbis as well as members of the community who are very upset with the way Rav Berkovitz handled the issue. .

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  38. The evidence that the gang is a cult is very weak- pools, animals, pain and rumours of missionaries do not mean there is a cult involved. However, assuming the children are being abused and the therapists are not making things up, i see no real difference between a gang that targets small children or young teens and fail to see why you should be so sceptical. You are right, I am unaware of the details as I only read the wikipedia article but I do know that it is better that this is fully investigated and parents are warned than closing your eyes and crying hoax.

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  39. "A similar situation apparently has occurred in Sanhedria Murchevet.
    Apparently most of the response to the allegation is the direct result
    of the leadership of Rav Yitzchok Berkovitz. Unfortunately just as with
    Nachlaot there is not much evidence to verify there is in fact a ring
    of of child abusers. The police have been informed - but they also
    don't see any clear evidence. Rav Berkovitz kept the news of these
    allegations from the public in the hope of being able to identify who
    the perpetrators are. He hired a private detective. My sources indicate
    that nothing of significance has come from this paternalistic
    approach. I was told that it was only due to the clear failure of the
    secret approach that Rav Berkovitz made the information public several
    weeks ago.
    "

    The mystery about Rav Yitzchok Bretowitz deepens!

    How so?

    The givens are that he has a sterling reputation in both secular studies and Torah learning. He was regarded as one of the greatest alumni of the Ner Yisroel Yeshiva. When he chose to go to law school and attain a PhD in Law and then became a respected professor of law at the prestigious Johns Hopkins University. With that, he took on himself an illustrious career in Rabbonus in a notable Torahdikke community in Silver Spring, Maryland. So far so good. Then he left all that behind and moved to Eretz Yisroel to take up the position of top Dean-Rosh Yeshiva at the famous Ohr Somaych Ba'a: Teshuva Yeshiva in Yerushalayim and get involved in Rabbonus. Now strange things start to happen all coming to the fore within a short span of time.

    First we hear that he writes a legal opinion in support of the use of force to obtain Gittin in the Rabbi Mendel Epstein situation. Hmmm! Then on the other side of the Atlantic in Israel it now transpires that he has been involved in trying to manage a child abuse situation that has allegations of "satan worship" involved where "He hired a private detective." Huuh?


    What's up with Rav Breitowitz doesn't he have enough CONVENTIONAL Rabbinic and Harbotzas Torah duties to keep him busy without getting involved in the Epstein COURT imbroglio and "hiring" "private detectives" to solve community problems in far off Israel? Very strange! This is the $64,000 question so to speak!


    What makes his actions and behavior even more strange is that he is a famous US professor of law who seems to be endorsing EXTRA JUDICIAL activities seemingly "justifying" it that it's okay as far as Jewish Law goes according to him. The trouble is the outside world does not know where the US Professor Breitowitz ends and where the Rav Breitowitz and Illui begins? Does he?


    In the case of Epstein, Rav Breitowitz is explicitly endorsing the use of force by a a so-called ad hoc bais din, while in the Israeli case he is resorting to conducting his own "police actions" that should rightly be undertaken by the proper authorities have enough REAL detectives to deal with accusations of wrongdoing especially as it may involve potential child endangerment.


    At this point his actions are slipping into the domain of absurdity worthy of an "Inspector Clouseau" and most unbecoming of established secular legal scholar and renowend Talmid Chochem...

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  40. I obviously do not know what is going on? That is possible. But you have not demonstrated that I know any less than you do. If you indeed know something that the rest of us here don't that makes your opinion more authoritative, please share that with us. I have not seen anything that indicates that that is so.
    I am sure that, as you state, there are many members of the community who are upset with the way Rabbi Berkowitz handled the situation. That is certainly natural. Objective opinions cannot be expected of them. Why does that prove that Rabbi Berkovitz's reasoning is off the wall? You support your accusation that I don't know what's going on by claiming that many rabbis are upset as well. Perhaps. Can you tell us who these rabbis are instead of referencing anonymous rabbis? And how many is many? Remember, we are not discussing the correct course of action so much as we're discussing whether what Rabbi Berkowitz did was astounding.

    You complain about being judged. I find that incredible. Did you not judge Rabbi Berkovitz quite sharply?! How can you complain that those who are defending him (by saying that his position at least has merit, even if it is not necessarily the correct one) are judging you?!

    You claim that there is no halachic basis for keeping this a secret for two years. Please indictate which halacha requires him to have made a public announcement. Does lo sa'amod al dam rei'echa not apply as well to possible or probable fallout from such a move? And it's not as though there was a specific suspect whose name was kept hidden. As mentioned, he did organize a presentation to promote general awareness, as well as warning about the transportation safety issues.

    You assume that I have no problem with a rav who does not have training etc. taking the sole responsibility to decide who should be told and who should be consulted. Why in the world would you assume that? I said nothing of the sort. Rabbi Berkowitz said that he attempted numerous times to go to the police and to the special unit for child protection, but it did not get him anywhere.

    You write that if you were the parent of a child who was abused but had not been warned you would be justifiably upset with Rabbi Berkowitz. Upset? Of course. I would, too. Justifiably? Quite unclear. The rabbi's job is to deal with the broader picture. I do not know definitively that he acted correctly, but I do know that he was looking at the bigger picture with its other ramifications. You, on the other hand, seem to see things very narrowly.

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  41. You are clearly not representing what Rabbi Berkowitz said correctly. Interestingly, you did the same thing with the psak of the expanded Beis Din in the seminary case.


    In his speech he clearly said that it seems like a cult. He then clear explained that if this is true, what exactly the cult is.


    However, he explained that there clearly was abuse. He does not know who the perpetrators are.

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  42. Well, I disagree with you on that one. I will leave it up to anyone who takes the time to read the full document or listen to the full speech to decide whether or not they think Rabbi Berkowitz believes there is a cult.

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  43. RDE, you took the argument that should support Rabbi Berkowitz, and turned it against him. For the past two years, I'm told he's been telling people, and putting up signs that no one may let their kids go out of the house alone, even just to go to the grocery.
    What he did not do, was get into the details we've been hearing about lately, for the precise reason that all above are saying! That there are many any reasons it may backfire.

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  44. @Yehuda - you seem to assume that the Rav is the superior father and the community are his children. Or to put it another way - you seem to assume that Rav Berkovitz represents Daas Torah while I represent mortal secular knowledge. I don't accept either view.

    Rav Berkovitz decision to conceal information that parents needed to protect there children for two years - is not excused by saying that the warned the parents to take care of their children. The level of protection given to children would be infinitely greater by letting parents know what was going on

    Regard lo sa'amod - please look at

    Shulchan Aruch (C.M. 426:1): If you see someone drowning in the sea or being attacked by bandits or wild animals and it is possible to save him by yourself or to pay others to save him and yet you don’t save him or alternatively you hear non Jews or informers plotting to do him harm and yet you don’t inform him or alternatively you know that non Jews or bandits are planning to attack him and you are able dissuade them and yet you don’t or other such scenarios – you are violating “do not stand idly by the blood of your fellow (Vayikra 19:16).

    Bottom line - you seem to ascribe to a rav a job description which is not there - either in halacha or common sense. It is clear to anyone who has been following developments in dealing with abuse for the last few years - time after time - rabbonim take upon themselves the job of "protecting" the community - and they have generally done a rather incompetent job - often causing severe damage and chilul hashem. They have neither the competence, power or impartiality needed to deal with the issue alone. It is a community issue and needs to be dealt with as such.

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  45. I will leave it up to anyone who takes the time to read the full document or listen to the full speech to decide


    LOL
    If you actually felt that way, why would you have taken the time to post your version of a "summary" of Rabbi Berkowitz' speech or the Beis Din's psak in the seminary case?

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  46. nat how did those two parents verify the rebbe had done this?

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  47. Tell the police. If they won't respond, and he still believes there's a problem, make it public. Inform the press, get an article written -- that would have generated public pressure, which would have gotten the police moving. Running around secretly playing cops and robbers for two years was not a good idea.

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  48. RDE, you took the argument that should support Rabbi Berkowitz, and turned it against him. For the past two years, I'm told he's been telling people, and putting up signs that no one may let their kids go out of the house alone, even just to go to the grocery. 
    What he did not do, was get into the details we've been hearing about lately, for the precise reason that all above are saying! That there are many any reasons it may backfire. 

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  49. RDE, you took the argument that should support Rabbi Berkowitz, and turned it against him. For the past two years, they say he's been telling people, and putting up signs that no one may let their kids go out of the house alone, even just to go to the grocery. 
    What he did not do, was get into the details we've been hearing about lately, for the precise reason that all above are saying! Which is that parents may unintentionally plant ideas in their children's head. Once it was all spread

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  50. What is being presented is not that a gang is targeting small children, but a sophisticated group of people that are drugging, torturing and brainwashing children for unknown reasons. In the cases in Britain, the reasons were clear, there were crimes that were being committed and there were perpetrators that were arrested with ample hard evidence of their guilt.

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  51. "you seem to assume that Rav Berkovitz represents Daas Torah while I represent mortal secular knowledge. I don't accept either view."



    woah!-pretty heavy comment. So you believe Rav Berkovitz doesn't represent Daas Torah any better than you do? I must be misunderstanding your meaning of that comment.

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  52. @Love it! - I think you misunderstood. I was referring to Daas Torah of the mystical prophetic authority - which does not rely on sources but on the ruach hakodesh of the person. In that sense I am claiming that Rav Berkovitz does not have an advantage. Never heard him claim authority based on ruach hakodesh - have you? Rav Moshe Feinstein never claimed such - not sure why you think he does?

    Regarding the halachic and psychological sources - I disagree with the way he has handled this case.

    What give you the competence to stick your head into this matter?

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  53. I have no idea whether or not there was abuse. The guy's computer had nothing to do with the case. Furthermore, it was accessed illegally, which could open R' Berkowitz to criminal or civil charges, if the fellow decides to pursue it. How would that look?

    One thing I'm very clear about in my mind is the inappropriateness of ordinary people, be they rabbonim or askanim, playing policeman or vigilante or detective. It's ineffective, and leads to very foolish and even dangerous places, including potential legal liability.

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  54. "Rav Moshe Feinstein never claimed such - not sure why you think he does?"

    not sure what you are talking about, never said a word about Rav Moshe . . .

    "What give you the competence to stick your head into this matter?"

    Woops, sorry! Thought this was a public forum!

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  55. @love it - your sarcasm is inappropriate. If you find it to hard to communicate properly please go find another forum

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  56. This is getting rather silly. "Daas torah"? "Mortal secular knowledge"? Whatever are you talking about? This is the second time that you ascribe to me something that you produced out of thin air. Why do you insist on derailing the conversation? I understand that "daas torah" is one of your favorite topics but please let us stick to the matter at hand. What I said was that a responsible leader looks at the whole picture with all its ramifications. This is expected of a secular leader as well as of a rabbi.

    Regarding lo sa'amod all dam rei'echa, I knew that you would invoke that, which was why I preempted you. You're lengthy quote from Choshen Mishpat was quite unnecessary and not particularly relevant. The Shulchan Aruch refers to active danger and specific threats. Here, we are not dealing with specific or known perpetrators, or specific clear targets. There is certainly no technical chiyuv of lo sa'amod al dam rei'echa which would require immediate, decisive action regardless of the fallout. The mitzvah would apply in a general way, as in we need to do something about this situation. By the same token, we would need to take into account others forms of harm which may be caused.

    You write that I seem to ascribe to a rav a job description which is not there both in halacha and in common sense. If you think that common sense does not dictate that a leader be deliberate in decision making, attempting to view events from numerous angles, then I suppose that the commonality of that sense has passed you by.
    It does not seem that Rabbi Berkowitz has taken on the job of "protecting" the community on his own, as you write. He certainly claims that he made numerous attempts to get others involved, as well as taking steps to raise general awareness. What was happening also did not become clear all at once. Do you possess the exact formula for when exactly is the right time to klop on the bima and cause mass hysteria?

    I have no issue with you, or anyone else, disagreeing with what Rabbi Berkowitz did. My issue is with the fact that you cannot see that the other side may have some merit, even if you would disagree. I do not know if Rabbi Berkowitz approach was correct. I do know, though, that it was a measured, responsible thought process which brought him there.

    From your comments to me as well as to others it I apparent that you see yourself as being uniquely qualified to have an opinion, to the exclusion of most others. Hence your comments ts about other people's competence and your (incredible) protests about being judged while you very confidently judge others.
    Granted, you know more then me - and probably more than most, given your fixation and obsession - about child molestation. You also seem to think that you have unique competence in the halachic arena, something which I have seen no indication of.
    Where you are stunningly incompetent however, is in your ability to see the broader picture and to look at an issue from multiple angles.
    Your stubborn refusal to acknowledge that there may be merit to another viewpoint -even if it is one that you ultimately reject- leaves me feeling that it is very fortunate that you are not a leader in a community.

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  57. Actually, I did not write a summary of R' Berkowitz' speech; perhaps you are confusing me with someone else. As to the other one, not everyone who visits this blog can read Hebrew.

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  58. May I ask about "Daas Torah of the mystical prophetic authority which does not rely on sources but on the ruach hakodesh of the person."

    Is this something that is in existence today, or is it a reference to the time there were Neviim, and Urim V'Thumim (may those days speedily be renewed!)?

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  59. NO NEED TO POST - JUST RESPONDING TO YOU FYEO
    That does seem to be your pattern. When it is pointed out that you have made a mistake, you change the subject.
    In all honestly, and without sarcasm:
    Don't worry, I don't come here at all anymore unless someone asks me to look at something posted. I used to check in daily and respected you very much. Then you wrote about 2 stories that I knew in detail and realized you are not always as honest, straightforward or unbiased as I had thought. I was very sorry, because I considered you a clean and straight source of information. Now I am somewhat disillusioned and realize everyone online is really just in show biz of some kind or another.
    I used to live in sanhedria murchevet so this caught my attention. I will try extra hard not to make that error again.

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  60. In the Know from NachalotMarch 13, 2015 at 3:49 PM

    In the know since Nachalot, like most of you Rabbi B didn't believe Nachalot, it was young yungerleit, giving Chosson shiurim, who were shocked by hearing it, & sought advice from Rabbi B. At the beginning he didn't believe it, like you don't. However as it started coming in from too many directions it was too corroborated to be not true at all. At that point major research was done, by experts, and conclusions were made.
    The reason why people don't believe it is because it is unbelievable. If it didn't happen to you it is beyond imagination.
    Why the police are useless over here? Watch the police beating up kids or even Arabs at hafgonos to see how much yiras shomayim they have, & BTW have you not witnessed many police resignations at the top for these very or at least sexual missconduct allegations?There is more to the police story, & more to the entire story.
    Unfortunatly adayin hasoton merakeid beineinu, and some of our best are on the wrong side,albeit for different reasons.
    This is worse than the Holocaust (godol hamachtio), only moshiach can save us, from our own who have taken the wrong side.
    On Rabbi B I say yomim al yemei melech toisif, there are things he cannot disclose during legal investigations, however he is doing his utmost with mesiras nefesh, to advise parents to do their part in keeping their children as safe as possible. Please support him not the opposite, like many commentators above.Rabbi E if you really mean Lesheim shomayim, and want to help, how about visiting Rabbi B, & getting the story first hand, you maybe shocked or for some reason a noigai beddoveor.

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  61. @In the know - could you please cite the cases of clearly proven satanic abuse rings? What is clear that in the US were there were many such stories which sound very similar to what Rav Berkovitz presented - they have ALL been thrown out.

    That is a very powerful chazaka.
    In addition after two years - there is not one suspect. Where are the eyewitnesses. Everything is built upon the testimony of these children and as Rabbi Berkovitz repeated states - it is hard to know what can be believed.

    All that has been presented against this chazaka and lack of witnesses is a lot of conjecture

    Of course Rabbi Berkovitz is sincere and is working with mesiras nefesh - but that doesn't mean he knows what he is doing or going in the right direction.

    Where are the trained forensic psychologists who are making public statements in agreement with what he is saying? Where are the public campaigns and political pull to get the police involved?

    The only reaction I have gotten so far is from someone claiming to be a supporter of Rabbi Berkovitz asking me to take down the recording and transcript from my blog because it contains too much detail for the masses.

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  62. I suppose that the idea that satanistic congregations can pick up random children and submit them to ritualistic abuse is a bit unrealistic.

    I suppose that the vast majority of ritual abuse cases happen within the family, where the children have no advocates that will speak up for them.
    i.e. I think that there are indeed families who groom their children/grandchildren and rent them out to pedophiles in a setting of ritual abuse. It might happen to the children of members of the sect.

    But in the case of children who have tender and loving parents they can turn to, the risk would be far to great to groom them and repeatedly use them in such a setting.

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  63. LONDON — The recent revelations that teenage girls were systematically raped and trafficked by gangs of older men over long periods of time in several British cities prompted a host of inquiries into why the authorities had seemingly turned a blind eye for so long.

    This week, a police report into the first such case to be successfully prosecuted concluded that there had been a forcewide failure to address sexual abuse in the northern city of Rochdale, but that no police officer would face serious discipline.

    In 2012, nine men of mostly Pakistani heritage in Rochdale and neighboring Oldham were found guilty of charges that included rape and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child. The victims, dozens of them, were overwhelmingly white, and the cases set off a debate on race, religion and ethnicity in Britain...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/14/world/europe/police-failed-to-address-sexual-abuse-in-northern-british-city-report-says.html

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  64. In the Know from NachalotMarch 13, 2015 at 6:42 PM

    You still have not answered why you don't go & speak to Rabbi B.B4 posting over here.
    If you do a little more research even on Google you will find out how connected the Satanics are. More so some of them believe in bringing all Yehudim to EY, so that they could shmad them, if they don't shmad they believe they will be killed in Israel in Armageddon.
    I heard from someone of Hungarian descent that when the Bobover Rebbe Z"L escaped the concentration camps & fled to Hungary, he went round giving droshos & collecting money saying they are killing Yidden in the most horrific ways. This guy's grandfather along with other Hungarian Jews laughed at him, saying another Rebbishe einikel found a new way to schnorer money. Before long they found out it was true.
    So to over here unless chas veshalom it hits home, nobody believes it. Please do yourself & Klal Yisroel a favor. Excuse my language but I am in the US , get off your b.. & go to Rabbi B. Tell him about your blog. etc.
    BTW you really think he is acting solo, there is a lot more to this story. You too will be shocked.
    I also thought it was drivel imagination & obsessions until...I cannot say anymore over here.
    Please go to Rabbi B.

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  65. @In the Know - how about revealing what your connection to this story is? You are in Lakewood - where is your information coming from?

    As I have mentioned before I have done research in this matter. Rav Berkovitz presented his case in his public address. I do not feel that he is handling the matter properly. He is not a tranined investigator, he is not a psychologist and from what I am hearing he is relying on people who do not have proper training in psychology to deal with this case. If recognized experts in the field - publicly came out in support of his views - then I would take the claims more seriously.

    If Rav Berkovitz wants to speak he knows how to reach me - but I don't think he is concerned about what I have to say.

    Your research is not accurate. We are not talking about people with an interest in Satanics - but a Satanic Child Abuse ring. Please present the links that provide evidence that they exist and how common they are - and how often people have conducted a lynch mob and harmed the innocent before it was determined the charges were false?


    your evidence is rather far fetched to put mildly

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  66. In the Know from NachalotMarch 15, 2015 at 3:22 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrX2G6sMojc

    BTW, I find it strange someone calling himself Daas Torah, paskening from a chazoko, learned on Wikipedia,from a justice system which as long as OJ Simpson had money he was cleared of murder, & when he no longer had money got a life sentence for not murder.
    See the above link to realize how connected those evil doers are, & that is why the justice system in the US disposes of their cases before it even gets to a jury.
    More so you could work out (be mevarer) the chazoko, by speaking to Rabbi Berkowitz. You will find out that he didn't act solo as you believe.
    Instead of of sacrificing your oilam habo, by bad mouthing Rabbi B over here in the name of Dass Tora Rachmono lizlon. Go & speak to Rabbbi B or I'll say it like it should be said Sh..ut up.
    Rabbi B didn't speak against you in public, he has no reason to speak to you. You have a chiyuv to ask him mechila berabim, by making up what ever you think must be fact labeling it Daas Torah & publishing it to the entire world wide web.
    I don't know how you sleep at night.

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  67. @In the know - your dancing around my questions is shameful. Your "proof" that there are satanical abuse rings is from the stories about Prince Andrew?! that is the best you can do to justify dismissing the two lengthy well researched articles I published about the nonexistence of these rings? It wasn't just from Wikipedia?

    I have no trouble sleeping at night - so please don't loose any of yours worrying about it. Not sure why anyone needs to ask for mechila for disagreeing with the views of a talmid chachom. Wasn't aware that Rav Berkovwitz thinks he is infallible and that anyone questioning his judgment will lose his Olam Habah?
    Perhaps you should read through the Igros Moshe and see how Rav Moshe Feinstein viewed people disagreeing with him.

    In sum - instead of calling out hell fire and brimstone against me - why don't you resort to a cogent discussion of the facts

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  68. In the Know from NachalotMarch 15, 2015 at 2:09 PM

    First of all you are relying on chazokos with no basis in halacha as I mentioned before, for 2 reasons to disagree with Rabbi B.
    Second of all you have not researched the children of this case as Rabbi B. has.
    Third of all you claim he has done it solo, without professionals, which is not true, an you know it.
    As for my video, Prince Andrew is one the people mentioned there, you are so evasive, and it is obvious why. That was just to show you it does exist, The internet is not where I will get my information from, nor could it be used in court , Din Torah or Din shomayim.
    Reb Moshe in Igres Moshe was not matir blogging against a choshuve Talmid Chochom, when you take things out of context, to write your own book.
    I am not publishing information into the WWW, which could damage the true askonim trying bimsirus nefesh to help a very unfortunate chelek of klal Yisroel.
    The fact you are so adamant to find out where I am who I am & what I know, shows me a little insight into who you may very well be.
    It seems from all your posts on this subject that you have been bought out by the sitra achara (the other side & the soton), not to say that you are a satanic, but you will go to great lengths to protect them as you do, at the expense of the abused kids, of who'm the only way you may know who they may be is from the Satanic abusers themselves.
    It is no surprise that the chief of police who dropped this investigation in Yerushalayim was later forced to resign for very horrible aveiros. The Satanic cult were able to blackmail him, with info they had on him, so as not to prosecute them.
    For all practical purposes the dark Satanic is just a nick-name, it isn't there actual trade name, but that they want to be machtie Yiddishe children & do it through multiple forms of abuse has been corroborated.
    The fact that you claim to know all the children & parents are lying tells me something about you.
    You are trying to disprove Rabbi B. in blog space rather than in person, where you may hear the facts if you have a good reason to know them, and have the nerve to say that I think he is infallible.
    You don't know the facts of this story he does, unless the Satanic abusers have informed you of them.
    Imagine I, together with another person would witness a man biting a dog. We would then come to beis Din and testify man bit dog, you would be the dayan, & would Google man doesn't bite dog so it never happened. Even if you would pasken that way, we would still know it happened because we saw it, no matter how much you prove it didn't happen we would know it did.
    Without speaking to Rabbi B. you have no case, and the Tshuva you quote from Reb Moshe isn't about a metzius, which could be proven by speaking to the other person,(if he will speak to you, which after how you blog, he may have good reason not to)& you know it here again you are writing your own book & if you sleep well at night it says something about you.

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  69. It seems that RB did the right thing.

    1. He announced repeatedly in no uncertain terms that one may not let their child out of the house alone. He's been speaking out about that since he was told the very first episode.

    2. He was careful not to spread rumors based on what many of the children were saying (until others already spread many rumors, and he spoke up to clarify what is going on, and to dispel totally fabricated rumors ). This is consistent with the anecdotal evidence many are sharing here that doing so may lead to parents putting ideas into their children's head, thereby causing mass hysteria.

    And that is what he said when he spoke in public. He said what children are saying, followed by explaining that we can only do our due diligence. But with the reality of children's wild imaginations, followed by lack of evidence to their sensational claims, we just don't know. At the same time, all possibilities are on the table, and no idea, no matter how farfetched, should be discounted.

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  70. http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2015/03/sanhedria-murchevet-problematic.html

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  71. "we've even discovered a lot of the technology. So kids don't naturally talk up".
    Could someone tell me what type of technology he is talking about. what technology did they discover??

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  72. Given the extraordinary number of children supposedly involved, the details are remarkably vague. Were any medical tests performed on any of these children to look for physical evidence of abuse? (If so, what were the results? If not, why not?) Has any serious effort been made to put together all the information about individual children, bus routes, drivers, delays, etc. to get a coherent picture of the situation and see if there really is a problematic situation? I mean, if this has supposedly been going on for years, there has been plenty of time to do the basic legwork of compiling information. Instead it sounds like it is just a litany of vague, disconnected claims and rumors, which, though they share certain common features, lack any kind objective confirmation.


    By all appearances, this appears to be simply a Jewish/Israeli version of the famous Satanic ritual abuse hysteria that took place in the US in the 1980s.

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  73. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Tari


    here is an example of ritual (sexual) abuse that seems to be confirmed.

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