Most of the discussion is about R' Kamentesky's book Making of Gadol. He was in negotiations for a couple of years with R' Elyashiv to print the second edition, but couldn't get his approval. So he asked R Elyashiv how he went against the Brisker Rov by getting a salary from the Chief Rabbinate in Israel, when the Brisker forbade it. R Elyashiv's body language changed when he was asked that question. He said that it didn't apply to him or that he didnt consider the Brisker to be his Rov. Kamenetsky's brave question was to point out that he needed the book for his parnassah. He also tells a story of r @ Shach who first was doing a stint at a Mizrachi Yeshiva, and the CI told him to leave. But the Brisker said alter, that he wouldn't have asked him to leave - since parnassa was important. Kamenetsky argues that the Brisker Rav was opposed to the Rabbanut since it purported to be a Sanhedrin.
A prominent dayan told me that the Chazon Ish put Haredi rabbonim in the government Beth Din as he felt it was very important and it was he who put Reb Elyashev there.
Before you get in a tizzy - please cite what Brown actually said. Are you claiming that in this area of history there is only one correct understanding and that whatever Brown says is exactly what happened?!
Rav alyashuv was found and appointed by r herzog alone (השקדן( Perhaps your friends mistake was the only time the חזן איש worked for appointment was rav herzog against r harlop whom he felt was a danger to be chief rabbi...עיין שם
Perhaps the Dayan is forgetting / repressing the fact that R' Elyashiv was in his younger days a follower of R Kook and the Religious Zionist movement. Under R Herzog he was a very creative halachist, and he had what some might call illusions of the Grandeur of the Rabbanut - ie that it was the root of the Sanhedrin. his is the direct opposite of the view of the Brisker Rav, who deemed it as idolatry.
Rav Eliashev merely took a job with the rabbanut as a day job for parnassa. Same as you or I may take a job as a cashier clerk in a supermarket, even though we don't necessarily believe in the greatness of cashiering. Rav Eliashev was never a follower of Rav Kook (despite his being mesader at the chasuna) or religious zionism or the rabbunut. He quit his job in the rabbunut in disgust with it after it crossed red lines.
Nor had Rav Eliashev had any illusions of grandeur; quite the opposite in fact. He never sought nor wished fame. Rav Shach thurst it upon him.
@ Joe, you are missing the writings of R Elyashiv during his sting under Rav Herzog. At that point in time he was into the whole RZ ideology. I heard from an older person, that he was threatened by Haredim, saying that he would not be taken seriously if he remained in the RZ world. This actually proves my theory that "Gadlus" and ideology are unrelated. There could be Gedolim, maybe even greater than RYSE who preferred to stay in RZ or modern world, but were simply not given the recognition because of their views.
Another example is R Nebenzahl, who had he stayed in haredi world would certainly be considered one of the gedolei haDor.
"Rav Eliashev was never a follower of Rav Kook (despite his being mesader at the chasuna)". At the time of HaRav Elyashiv's chasseneh, were there no Rabbonim in Yerushalayim except for HaRav Kook? Would you take someone you suspect of "idolatrous" beliefs to be mesader Chupa v'kiddushin? It may be more simple than that. As there is no simmen in the Shulchan Oruch stating that it is forbidden to see something that secular Jews did as positive and with potential for bringing redemption, many Charedim of 60-80 years ago were able to live with the opinions of the Rabbonim who thought that many actions of the Zionists were beneficial. For more information, please see the "Haemek Dovor"'s introduction to Sefer Bereishis
Translation? What is he saying (in a nutshell)?
ReplyDeleteSorry - a nutshell isn't sufficient and I don't have the time. Perhaps someone else would like to volunteer?
DeleteWhat topic is he addressing, at least?
DeleteMost of the discussion is about R' Kamentesky's book Making of Gadol. He was in negotiations for a couple of years with R' Elyashiv to print the second edition, but couldn't get his approval. So he asked R Elyashiv how he went against the Brisker Rov by getting a salary from the Chief Rabbinate in Israel, when the Brisker forbade it. R Elyashiv's body language changed when he was asked that question. He said that it didn't apply to him or that he didnt consider the Brisker to be his Rov. Kamenetsky's brave question was to point out that he needed the book for his parnassah. He also tells a story of r @ Shach who first was doing a stint at a Mizrachi Yeshiva, and the CI told him to leave. But the Brisker said alter, that he wouldn't have asked him to leave - since parnassa was important. Kamenetsky argues that the Brisker Rav was opposed to the Rabbanut since it purported to be a Sanhedrin.
DeleteIs the video still working?
ReplyDeleteyes - just added another link but the first one clearly is working
DeleteA prominent dayan told me that the Chazon Ish put Haredi rabbonim in the government Beth Din as he felt it was very important and it was he who put Reb Elyashev there.
ReplyDeleteThats a lie... See the new 900 page bio of CI By brown.
DeleteWhy don't u bring this dayans name.
DeleteBefore you get in a tizzy - please cite what Brown actually said. Are you claiming that in this area of history there is only one correct understanding and that whatever Brown says is exactly what happened?!
DeleteRav alyashuv was found and appointed by r herzog alone (השקדן(
ReplyDeletePerhaps your friends mistake was the only time the חזן איש worked for appointment was rav herzog against r harlop whom he felt was a danger to be chief rabbi...עיין שם
The book is not before me but u can find easily with the index.
ReplyDeleteThere is no listing in the index
DeletePerhaps the Dayan is forgetting / repressing the fact that R' Elyashiv was in his younger days a follower of R Kook and the Religious Zionist movement. Under R Herzog he was a very creative halachist, and he had what some might call illusions of the Grandeur of the Rabbanut - ie that it was the root of the Sanhedrin. his is the direct opposite of the view of the Brisker Rav, who deemed it as idolatry.
ReplyDeleteRav Eliashev merely took a job with the rabbanut as a day job for parnassa. Same as you or I may take a job as a cashier clerk in a supermarket, even though we don't necessarily believe in the greatness of cashiering. Rav Eliashev was never a follower of Rav Kook (despite his being mesader at the chasuna) or religious zionism or the rabbunut. He quit his job in the rabbunut in disgust with it after it crossed red lines.
DeleteNor had Rav Eliashev had any illusions of grandeur; quite the opposite in fact. He never sought nor wished fame. Rav Shach thurst it upon him.
@ Joe, you are missing the writings of R Elyashiv during his sting under Rav Herzog. At that point in time he was into the whole RZ ideology.
DeleteI heard from an older person, that he was threatened by Haredim, saying that he would not be taken seriously if he remained in the RZ world.
This actually proves my theory that "Gadlus" and ideology are unrelated. There could be Gedolim, maybe even greater than RYSE who preferred to stay in RZ or modern world, but were simply not given the recognition because of their views.
Another example is R Nebenzahl, who had he stayed in haredi world would certainly be considered one of the gedolei haDor.
"Rav Eliashev was never a follower of Rav Kook (despite his being mesader at the chasuna)". At the time of HaRav Elyashiv's chasseneh, were there no Rabbonim in Yerushalayim except for HaRav Kook? Would you take someone you suspect of "idolatrous" beliefs to be mesader Chupa v'kiddushin?
ReplyDeleteIt may be more simple than that. As there is no simmen in the Shulchan Oruch stating that it is forbidden to see something that secular Jews did as positive and with potential for bringing redemption, many Charedim of 60-80 years ago were able to live with the opinions of the Rabbonim who thought that many actions of the Zionists were beneficial.
For more information, please see the "Haemek Dovor"'s introduction to Sefer Bereishis