Sex offenders III - Treatment in Chareidi society

Time magazine reports:

Among Israel's ultra-orthodox Jews, the Haredim, social workers are often called "child-snatchers" and the police "Cossacks," harking back to the 19th century pogroms against Jews in Russia. These cloistered communities, in which women are expected to raise and financially support their large families while their husbands spend their days stooped over the Torah, make up 10% of Israel's population and a third of Jerusalem's, and consider themselves defenders of a core morality in Jewish society. But that moral authority has come under scrutiny since evidence began to emerge in March of incest, rape and child abuse in four different ultra-orthodox enclaves around the country.

Over the last few weeks the Cossacks have arrived wearing the uniform of the Israeli national police force. In a series of raids following tip-offs from victims' relatives, neighbors and hospital workers, the police have arrested ultra-orthodox wives, husbands and yeshiva students.

Community elders were at first appalled. Now they are grateful for the intervention. "The Haredim are shocked by these cases," says Noach Korman, a Haredi attorney in the rabbinical court that adjudicates family and religious law, and the director of a shelter for battered wives. "At first they said, 'These people are crazy, they don't belong to us.' But now I hear Haredi voices saying: 'We should examine ourselves and not close our eyes to why these things are happening.' "Says Naomi Ragen, an orthodox woman who is an author and advocate for gender equality: "These shocking things had to come out. There was no more room left under the carpet."

Sex predators operate with ease among the ultra-orthodox communities because female victims often keep quiet, knowing that to speak out will damage their prospects of finding a husband. "The families all want their girls to have a AAA marriage to a religious scholar from a good family, and nobody's going to marry a girl who gets raped," says Ragen. In Bnei Brak, a predominately Haredi city near Tel Aviv, social worker Doron Agasi says one young Haredi man told him that he had molested more than a hundred girls. Agasi, director of the Shlom Banaich Fellowship, the only organization in Israel that treats pedophiles and their victims, convinced the young man to confess to the police. But, says Agasi, the authorities refused to bring charges because none of the parents of the alleged victims had filed complaints. Agasi says the rapist is now roaming free.

Convincing the Haredi to work with police and social workers has been a struggle, says Miki Miller, a social worker in the newly built Haredi town of Kiryat Sefer near Jerusalem. "The Haredi believe that a closed society is a pure society," she says. But a closed society can hide a multitude of sins. A senior police officer in Jerusalem acknowledges that the instincts of the Haredi community to cover up such crimes undermines the authorities' ability to investigate and prosecute offenders: "We're aware of this phenomenon of sex abuse among Haredis, but an extremely low number of these cases are ever reported."

The first port of call for Haredi families faced with violence or sex crimes is often their rabbi. But religious leaders themselves have not been immune from accusations of abuse. On April 6, a Jerusalem court indicted a Haredi mother of eight for child abuse in light of evidence that she broke her two toddlers' bones with hammers, forced the children to eat feces, and locked them inside a suitcase for hours. The alleged abuses came to light only after her three-year-old son was taken to hospital in a coma with brain damage. The woman claimed she was driving "devils" from her children following instructions from her religious counselor Elior Chen, who has since fled to Canada. Israeli police are seeking his extradition.[...]

EJF - RaP's recapitulation

RaP responds to Roni's questions from a previous "EJF - Proselytizing Advertisement":
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To Roni who said... "It is overwhelming clear that you on a rampage campaign against R. Tropper"

RaP: Nope, I am not on a "rampage" and you are mistaking and confusing a serious interest in this subject and thorough analysis and misnaming it a "rampage" simply because you don't like the concluions. Stop calling names and acting "frum" and holier-than-thou and debate the points in detail, if you can.

Furthermore, if you had even bothered to read some of my other posts you will see that I have defended Rabbi Tropper many times right here on this very blog, and in depth, trying to fathom and explain where he is coming from on kiruv and geirus issues and I even took Rabbi Tropper's hashkafic point of view against the owner of this blog and some of his serious supporters in the complex and sad Rabbi Slifkin saga (but I do not support Rabbi Tropper's alleged methods in slandering Rabbi Slifkin against other gedolim.)

If you don't believe me, please see the following five posts on this blog for yourself:

1) My post at "Rabbi Tropper & Prague - what happened?" at where I tried to explain Rabbi Tropper's complex position that became a new post at:

2) "R' Tropper - Kiruv vs Geirus/ RaP's analysis" at See my comments there that which shows my deepest sympathies with Rabbi Tropper's present struggles:

"Rabbi Tropper is from those kiruv workers (his main stock in trade) who works using the hard-sell method and he is very good at what he does in kiruv and is famous for his heady, strong-willed, blusterry speeches meant to bowl over his listeners, and yes he can be very intimidating and insulting to his listeners who may not share his moods. (Guess what: This is actually good kiruv believe it or not, because it is prone to induce a mind-shift as a form of "shock therapy" in his listeners opening them up to new Torah ideas they had never heard before), although he can also take it slow and gentle when he works with very diverse audiences who he knows will not go for his shock tactics. And yes, he generally holds that those who become his disci[les must adhere to quick adherence to his utterances and rules. Rabbi Tropper's kiruv methods as such are not an issue in this dialogue, nor do I think that his role in getting Rabbi Slifkin's books off the frum radar screen has anything to do with the current set of "Kiruv vs Geirus" issues that are riling Rabbi Tropper and confusing those who come face to face with him today because right now the man is a walking dichotomy. A sort of split personality, not fully conscious of the depth of his inner turmoil and extent of the self-contradiction he is spilling wherever he goes nowadays, as his kiruv side battles and tries to reconcile itself with the issues of geirus he has now immersed himself in for better or worse, and he is in over his head this time. While Rabbi tropper is agadol in the kiruv world, he is a zero in the world of dayanim and batei din. And yes, he is a big talmid chochme, but most rosh yeshivas (which he also claims to be of Kol Yaakov Yeshiva) are not involved in shimush lema'aseh and they are not dayanim. You do not go to a rosh yeshiva if you want to get divorced or are looking for a geirus. Rosh yeshivas are generally never poskim except for what goes on inside their yeshivas, and unlike a kiruv worker who can and MUST walk all over the range looking for people to mekarev, a dayan on the other hand, MUST contain himself and restrict himself to a very narrow venue, the Bais Din and its confines where he sits in judgment of cases and of others. In short, how to reconcile Kiruv ("drawing people close") and Richuk ("distancing" people)? How to reconcile the need to be a sweet Kiruv Worker (who must always be winning JEWISH friends and influencing people to eventually become/morph into being Haredi/Yeshivish) and on the other hand with a conflicting task, the enforcing the rules and dictates of Batei Din in regard to conversions that requires, per force, the distancing and pushing away of people, certianly gentiles and if need be even the Jews attached to those gentiles."

3) "R' Slifkin - context of ban /Ra" at where I even say:

"You know, this is where you have to admire Rabbi Tropper's kiruv derech that at least he does not lose himself or his students on all this fake double-talk about having some sort of allegiance to science and secular knowledge when as he rightly holds, Torah is not a substance that can be mixed or diluted with anything else to prove its powers and validity" and defending him "It's now le'acaher hama'aseh, and to get back to the point, Rabbi Tropper, at the end of the day is just a cog in what turned out to be pretty hefty Haredi machine. What can you do, that is just the way it goes sometimes."

4) "Kiruv I - The end of kiruv as we know it!" at l where I state that

"Rabbi Leib Tropper went in the other direction, feeling that both Ohr Somaych and Aish HaTorah had lost sight of their main mandate of basing everying ONLY on intense Gemora learning and rapid paced transformation to being a Ben Torah (not a bad goal but not as attractive to the nasses as Aish HaTorah's appeal, as is evident.)...Rabbi Tropper's Kol Yaakov yeshiva also in Monsey that stresses only the learning element, even though it does have an outrecah "Horizons" program...Rabbi Tropper is a venturer because with his EJF program to welcome in by doing outreach the non-Jewish spouses of interfaith couples under "strict" Beth Din auspices (actually fueling the flames of the process, as it were) he is doing a classical juggling act, that on the one hand he is trying to preempt and ward off attacks from the Haredi world he admires and respects and needs but at the the same time he is caving in to the interfaith flood at the gate and in this he is no different to ALL other Kiruv workers out there today trying to cope with the flood tide of interfaith students (meaning students from mixed marriages or intermarrieds themseleves, or those with non-Halachic conversions), and instead of calling a spade a spade and seeing the writing on the wall, that THE AGE OF KIRUV AS WE KNOW IT IS OVER..."And much of the above became the new post at:

5) "Kiruv II - Paradigm change for outreach workers" at

So at this time, unless you can acknowledge otherwise, it is obvious that you have not been reading those posts but just come here and make a few belly-aching comments simply because you don't like a few things you hear here.

"and the more you attack every single person associated with him an even attack Rav REuven Feinstein shows your even more your irrational campaign."

RaP: Can you point to the alleged "irrationality" you IMAGINE? Is the owner of this blog Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn "irrational", who posted I, II and and many other posts like this and who posts his and others' comments after serious review of each comment and who opposes the EJF effort and Rabbi Tropper's methods? Is Rav Moshe Shternbuch "irrational" for opposing efforts, see "Rav Moshe Sternbuch - Authorized Translation" and "Rav Moshe Sternbuch - Kiruv for non-Jews and "Bedatz Letter regarding EJF signed by Gaavad" like those of Rabbi Tropper and the EJF? Is the entire BADATZ of the powerful Eidah HaChareidis "irrational" (are Horav Meir Brandsorfer, Horav Moshe Sternbuch, Horav Naftoli Frenkal, Horav Avrohom Yitzchok Ulman, Horav Yakov Mendel Yorovitch, Horav Yehoushua Rosenberg ALL "irrational" too for signing it?) see "Bedatz letter regarding conversion" and of taking the extreme measure of openly, see "Bedatz letter regarding conversion" and rebuking and warning dayanim and batei din all over the world who were Recipients of its official warning letters and giving Publicicty to it, authorising its dissemination online through this very blog by Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn. It has been Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn who has asked for written Halachik clarifications from Rabbi Tropper and EJF and none has been forthcoming, so take it up with him if you think he and others being "irrational" for asking for a written reason al pi din and for his efforts EJF tried to smear him, see "EJF smear campaign"

"While I unerstan the reservations against R. Tropper an his plans,"

RaP: You do? Like what? This may be the seed of some fruitful discussions perhaps, don't you think? instead of hiding behind smokescreens and blaming others of being "irrational" when you have no good RATIONAL and LOGICAL and FACTUAL arguments or proofs of your own to produce, so far.

"your voice of opposition shows that there is more at stake for his critics that are far from "leshem shamayim."

RaP: You are wrong and Rabbi Tropper has yet to prove that everything he does is "leshem shamayim" and not coming from his notorious over-sized ego that brooks no opposition and who yells at anyone who dares oppose him.

Rabbi Tropper does not need "defenders" that make him look like he is the "poor little victim" of something when he is not.

Rabbi Tropper and Dr. Tom Kaplan sat down and decided on their own on a new scheme, that went far beyond in a quantum leap from Rabbi Tropper's world of kiruv and his Baal teshuva Kol Yaakov Yeshiva (which he ran very well) and would now branch into the world of batei din and geirus (based on many reasons that I have discussed in my other posts) that they called "EJF" and how to sell it to rabbonim and to the frum world and of course to the world of gentiles who were married or hitched to Jews and who would now be targeted for being inspired to get "real" conversions at Batei Din, and how to implement all this as if this was a "product" like Coca Cola that was being launched based on a business plan with lots of financing and professionalism behind it. So let's get real please and not talk like babies.

"With regards to Rabbi Bomzer (which i can clearly see that what bothers you is that R. Tropper an many Rabbonim that participate in EJF attack the fake an phony conversions of people like R. H Bomzer),"

RaP: Quite honestly, nobody on this blog could give a hoot about Rabbi Bomzer because if you had read all the posts seriously you will see that most posters here are against ANY kind of easy conversions no matter from who, be it Rabbi Bomzer, Chabad, kiruv organizations and workers, the RCA, the Israeli Rabbanut and now including Rabbi Tropper and his EJF. So cut out the nonsense because noone on this blog cares about or has anything to do with Rabbi Bomzer.

"he is known in many circles for his false conversions where he converts people 1) knowing ahead of time that they are not interested to keep torah and mitzvot (not only that they have lapses in the future); do not keep shabbat, kashrut, taharat ha mishpacha from the very outset. 3) Actually the rabbanut over ten years ago has written that his conversion needs bedikah! for his reputation is actually very well known, an most importantly his fees are also known!"

RaP: All this is interesting, but not to the point and only proves that YOU want to now smear Rabbi Bomzer. If you want to get into these kind of discussions, then you will discover that most situations involving geirus involve matters of self-interest somewhere along the line. It was Rabbi Tropper's connection with Tom Kaplan whose sister married to a man of Hispanic ancestry (Otto Aguiar) and who needed a conversion for himself and son ("Guma Kaplan Aguiar is the son of Ellen Kaplan.") that was a huge factor dragging Rabbi Tropper into this whole EJF adventure, see "Who is behind Eternal Jewish Family?" and "Is Eternal Jewish Family the center of the universe?" It may be rabbis who need money and charge fees, or interfaith couples who lie about their true intentions just to fool the dayanim, entire rabbinates and batei din that are not respected and are negated by other batei din, like happeened to Rabbi Drukman at the hands of Rav sherman and the High Court of the Rabbanut and Rabbi Tropper at the hands of the Bais Din of the Eidah Hachareidis for attempts at working to facilitate mass conversions. So while talking about RabbI bomezer may be true and interesting it is not much different to all the other problems that will arise for rabbis in the geirus business. So again, quit harping about Rabbi Bomzer, because he is already history, noone here really cares about him, and the focus is now on Rabbi Troppe and EJF and it would be apprecaited if you can expa=lain to us what Rabbi Tropper and EJF are doing that is so great that in the meantime so many people are having genuine Halachic issues with it.

"Continue to defend him and other similar rabbis"

RaP: Noone is defedning anyone here if you haven't noticed. This is a forum for discussion and you are welcome to join it instead of standing on the sidelines making silly comments.

"an attack vehemently Rav Reuven Feinstein and others with such disparagment and everyone will see clearly publicity's agenda!"

RaP: Again you fail to understand that this is a serious matter that is under discussion and just by saying that Rabbi Reuven feinstein like Rabbi tropper and wishes him well, while on this blog Rabbi Tropper has been asked dozens of times to produce WRITTEN haskomas from Rav Reuven or Rav Dovid Feinstein and he still does not, must mean that RabbI tropper does not have a written haskoma to do outreach to gentiles in order to get them to convert and marry Jewish spouses. This is no different to learning any sugya where the subject is open and we must look for answers and if no official answers are given it is possible to speculate for motives that require greater clarity. Can you answer this question please: Does or has Rav Reuven shlit"a or Rav Dovid Feinstein shlit"a or any institutions they head ever received financial backing and donations from Dr. Tom Kaplan and one his family or any businesses and foundations they head? Let's get real with some real questions instead of your bobba-maises.

"Rabbi Bomzer is not unique and he can't be blamed for every conversion that went off the rails."

RaP: Right, and Rabbi Tropper is not unique and he cannot be blamed for every person he once mekareved and then went off the rails. And just like I would not blame Rabbi Tropper for his kiruv failures noone can blame any serious Orthodox rabbi who is a dayan for conversions when converts go off the rails because just like SOME Baalei teshuva fail in the end to stay frum, many geirim in the end fail in the end to stick to their commitments to be truly Halachically Jewish. And guess what, every religious Bar Mitzva boy starts out good but by the time his life is over many Jews are off the derech, and it is not always the fathers' and mothers' who must be blamed. But while all that is intersting, this is not what this discussion is about, which is the determination of Rabbi Tropper and RJF to pursue mass conversions for goyim, which even for the best and frummest of reasons, MUST result in a huge catatsrophe for Klal Yisroel, and per force mass Chillul hashem in its wake, and he should be convinced to stop now at all costs, before his "solutions" and "cures" become worse than the diseases and plagues of assimilation and intermarriage.

EJF - Proselytizing Advertisement

This recently appeared on the internet - Hidabroot website

Glatt - Response to Prof Marc Shapiro

Forward reports the rebuttal by Rabbi Menachem Genack of the Orthodox Union:

In an August 18 opinion article, Marc Shapiro takes the Orthodox Union to task for, over the last 30 years, having “adopted a new standard in kashrut, one that defines only glatt kosher as acceptable” (“glatt Kosher Meat Is Not All It Is Cut Out to Be”). The era that Shapiro laments as having passed, however, was unfortunately one frequently rife with fraud.

What he terms “regular kosher” meat — in other words, non-glatt — is unquestionably kosher when reliably supervised and regulated. But there were ongoing problems with both the production and the distribution of kosher meat. Discerning kosher consumers began to demand glatt kosher meat, which was more carefully controlled — not because they wanted glatt per se, but because they wanted to be assured that the meat was indeed kosher. Thus it was consumer demand that made glatt the dominant standard in the marketplace, not some fiat by the O.U.

Since “glatt kosher” is a phrase that is often used but not always understood, let me elucidate it further. As Shapiro notes, the term glatt in America has also become a consumer phrase meaning unquestionably kosher, even beyond the context of meat. glatt is actually the Yiddish word for smooth, and indicates that an animal’s lungs are smooth and have no adhesions.

The Torah forbids consuming treifa meat. A treifa is an animal with one of 18 possible anatomical defects, the most common of which is a puncture in its lung.

Therefore, even a properly kosher slaughtered animal has its lungs inspected to make sure that there is no puncture or adhesion that may result in a puncture, or might be the result of a puncture. Each lung is visually inspected, and is then inflated and placed in water to find any holes, much as you would do to a tire with a leak.

While the discovery of a puncture renders the animal unquestionably a treifa, there is a disagreement regarding the permissibility of adhesions between the “Beit Yosef,” the forerunner to the “Shulchan Aruch,” and the Rama, Rabbi Moses Isserles. The “Beit Yosef” rules that virtually any adhesion is treif, while the Rama ruled leniently, permitting certain adhesions.

The glatt standard of the “Beit Yosef” is generally relevant only to Sephardim, and is sold with the designation “Beit Yosef glatt.” In prewar Europe, this was known as kalbene *glatt*, because young calves have no adhesions.

However, there is another reason for glatt, and the demand for it. The Talmud interprets a verse in Ezekiel as saying that the prophet never ate meat concerning which a decision had been rendered as to its kosher status — even if the determination was that it was indeed kosher.

Non-glatt meat always requires such decisions to be made, because the adhesions that are removed must be carefully evaluated by the bodek, or onsite kosher examiner, as to their status. Meat classified as glatt does not require such evaluations, as any adhesions that might be present are minor, uncomplicated and obviously kosher.

The glatt standard currently in use permits such minor adhesions, or ririn. Despite Shapiro’s assertion to the contrary, this was the standard of glatt for centuries in Europe, and is so codified by the “Beit David” and the “Simla Chadasha,” the two primary works on the laws of shechita, or
kosher slaughter. [...]

Questions II - versus doubts

Citations from Daas Torah See Questions-I-what-vs-why-vs-silence

R’ S. R. Hirsch (Nineteen Letters #18): [the leaders of Orthodoxy] became at first enemies of this philosophical spirit, and later of all specifically intellectual and philosophical pursuits in general. Certain misunderstood utterances [e.g., Bereishis Rabbah 44:1] were taken as weapons with which to repel all higher interpretations of the Talmud . . . The inevitable consequence was, therefore, that since oppression and persecution had robbed Israel of every broad and natural view of world and of life, and Talmud had yielded about all the practical results for life of which it was capable, every mind that felt the desire of independent activity was obliged to forsake the paths of study and research in general open to the human intellect, and to take its recourse to dialectic subtleties and hairsplitting. Only a very few [e.g., R’ Yehuda HaLevi’s Kuzari and Ramban] during this entire period stood with their intellectual efforts entirely within Judaism, and built it up out of its own inner concept [Drachman translation]…. we are left with two generations confronting each other. One of them has inherited an uncomprehended Judaism, as practiced by men from habit, a revered but lifeless mummy which it is afraid to bring back to life. The other, though in part burning with noble enthusiasm for the welfare of the Jews, regards Judaism as bereft of any life and spirit, a relic of an era lone past and buried, and tries to uncover its spirit, but, not finding it, threatens through its well‑meant efforts to sever the last life nerve of Judaism—out of sheer ignorance [Paritzky translation].

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Rambam (Commentary to Sanhedrin 10:1):When a person believes fully and genuinely in all these 13 principles of faith, he is considered part of the Jewish people and it is obligatory to love him, to have mercy on him and to relate to according to all the mitzvos that G‑d has commanded concerning interpersonal relationships of love and brotherhood. Moreover, even if he is a sinner because of lust and lack of self‑control—he will be punished according to his sins—nevertheless he still has Olam HaBah. However, if he questions or doubts any of these principles he is outside the Jewish people and is a denier of the foundation of Judaism. He is labeled a heretic (min, apikorus or cut off at the roots). It is obligatory to hate him and destroy him as its says in Tehilim (139:21) “I hate those who hate G‑d.”

Rav Saadiya Gaon(Emuna v’De’os 5:4): The heretic (kofer) is one who has abandoned the foundation of religion—G‑d. There are three types of abandonment. 1) He worships some other deity such as a statue or image or human being or the sun or the moon… 2) He worships neither another deity nor G‑d. In other words, he worships nothing—not true and not false. … 3) He has doubts about his faith—even though he is thought to be a fully practicing member of the religion. He still prays and supplicates—however his heart is not involved and he doesn’t belief. Such a person a person is a hypocrite in his words and faith. These people are described in Tehilim (78:36–37): “But they flattered Him with their mouth and lied to Him with their tongue. For their heart was not right with Him, Neither were they faithful in His covenant.” Such a person profanes the name of Heaven and is on that level.

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Maharal(Divrei Nagidim):The person who doesn’t know how to ask a question is not far from being a wicked person. Even though he has not reached the level of causing others to sin by ridiculing their religion. By the fact that he doesn’t have questions at all concerning the commandments, it appears that he has no relationship at all with them. Therefore, it is quite appropriate to answer him by saying that for the sake of these mitzvos G‑d did miracles for me in my redemption from Egypt. This is to arouse his desire to take part in these mitzvos and to understand that they have such great power that they brought about the redemption… If he listens then it is well. If he doesn’t then you, speak to him exactly as you speak to the wicked person. “For me and not for you. If you had been in Egypt you would not have been redeemed.”

Maharal(Avos 2:14): Similarly R’ Eliezer says that one should study diligently in order to answer the heretic…This is referring to the transient thoughts of heresy that pop into a person’s mind… Thus if one learns diligently to be able to answer the heretic than one will not have even transient thoughts of heresy…

Finance - Time to make Aliya

Jerusalem Post reports:

Ely Cole, a 25-year-old accountant from Columbus, Ohio, says he always dreamed of moving to Israel but worried about leaving his high-paying New York job before he'd established a career for himself.

Now, that job is gone, and Cole is on his way to the Jewish state, joining a wave of returning Israelis and new immigrants fleeing the dismal economic outlook in the US.

"It's a bit of a relief to be laid off instead of quitting - I'm not second-guessing myself," said Cole, who was let go two weeks ago from a New York hedge fund. "Having the push is beneficial."

Cole will join his sister, who made aliya last year, and begin looking for work in either Tel Aviv or Jerusalem once he has completed ulpan.

Cole was among more than a half-million Americans who lost their jobs last month, and economists predict that three million more could be unemployed in the coming year.

The job losses, initially centered in the hard-hit financial industry, are beginning to spread through the economy, touching everyone from lawyers to book publishers to independent business owners whose holiday sales expectations have nearly evaporated.

When pressed what opportunities they hoped to find in Israel, considering that the economic crisis is also affecting Israel and could get worse there, they did not mention specific job plans but expressed optimism that something would work out.[...]

Child abuse -Call police/ Religiousity lessened?

Tzitz Eliezer(19:52)...However in a case of physical abuse where it can not be solidly established that it is actually pikuach nefesh (life threatening) then the case is merely one of determining what is in the best interest of the child. In such a non-life threatening case, it is prohibited to file a complaint with the police when it is highly likely that the child will be taken from his religious home or traditional home and be transferred to a non‑Jewish institution or a non-observant Jewish one or one that is not even traditional. The exception being if his home is no different in religious observance than the institute to which they will likely transfer him. This governing principle is found in the Sifre (Ki Satze) where it states that those who cause others to sin are worse than if they had killed them. That is because the killer [only] takes the victim from this world but not the next. In contrast the one who causes sin causes him to lose both this world and the next.

Sifre (Devarim #252):..R’ Shimon said that the Egyptians drowned the Jews in water while the Edomim attacked them with swords and yet the Torah only prohibits them from marriage to Jews for three generations. In contrast the Ammonites and Moabites because they attempted to cause the Jews to sin, the Torah prohibits them from marriage to Jews forever. This teaches that causing another to sin is much worse than killing them. That is because when a person is killed he only loses this world while someone who is caused to sin loses this world and the next world.

History - Coca Cola & Kashrus

By journalist/translator/illustrator

R' Avraham Broide,

email - broide2@netvision.net.il;

New website http://www.amazingjewishfacts.com/

Amazing Jewish Facts newsletter (10 Kislev 5769/7 Dec. 2008)

For quite a few years, rabbis and kashrus organizations are involved in gargantuan efforts to ensure that Orthodox Jews too can participate in the battle of the bulge. An early instance of this trend was back in 5695/1935 and involved the most ubiquitous drink of all time, except water, Coca Cola.

Coca Cola, invented in May 5646/1886 by the Atlanta ex-Confederate soldier and druggist, Dr. John Styth Pemberton, was named after two of its exotic ingredients, coca leaves and kola nuts. For a few months, Coke struggled without any bubbles until a drugstore attendant thought of adding soda water to the concoction. Then people started realizing that "Things Go Better With Coke" and Coke's liquidity became a tsunami.

60 years passed before Rav Tuvia Geffen of Shearis Yisrael Shul in Atlanta began having qualms about Coke's kashrus. Prior to then, the prevailing attitude was - "Nu! What can be treif in a soft drink?"

Since Coca Cola's headquarters were right in Atlanta, Rav Tuvia had been receiving anxious queries about its kashrus for years. It was time to investigate. Although Coca Cola's recipe was among the best guarded industrial secrets of the USA, company directors realized that soothing the religious public's conscience meant increased revenues. So they agreed to provide Rav Tuvia with a list of ingredients under a strict oath to never reveal anything to a living soul. Thus, the teshuva (responsa) Rav Tuvia wrote, refers to the problematical ingredients by code.

After thorough inquiry and investigation at the factory, it became apparent that Coca Cola contained a liquid product made from meat and fat tallow of non-kosher animals.

Although the chief chemist of Georgia assured Rabbi Geffen that the glycerin constituted only a 1000^th of the beverage, and non-kosher ingredients are usually nullified in a volume only sixty times greater, Rav Geffen proved from the Rashba and other authorities that ingredients deliberately mixed into a product to enhance it are not nullified even in a thousand. A similar problem applied to the grain alcohol, even though their proportion was only a thousandth, since even the tiniest amount of leaven in a mixture is forbidden on Passover.

"Because Coca Cola has already been accepted by the general public in this country and in Canada," Rabbi Geffen wrote, "and because it has become an insurmountable problem to induce the great majority of Jews to refrain from partaking of this drink. I have tried earnestly to find a method of permitting its usage. With the help of God, I have been able to uncover a pragmatic solution according to which there would be no question nor any doubt concerning the ingredients of Coca Cola."

What was his solution? Find out and explore the whole story at: http://www.amazingjewishfacts.com/

EJF - takes over kiruv

scanned from current edition of HaShavuah

Anusim & Male genetic origin

NYTimes reports news which has no halachic ramifications:

The genetic signatures of people in Spain and Portugal provide new and explicit evidence of the mass conversions of Sephardic Jews and Muslims to Catholicism in the 15th and 16th centuries after Christian armies wrested Spain back from Muslim control, a team of geneticists reports.

Twenty percent of the population of the Iberian Peninsula has Sephardic Jewish ancestry and 11 percent have DNA reflecting Moorish ancestors, the geneticists have found. Historians have debated how many Jews converted and how many chose exile. “One wing grossly nderestimates the number of conversions,” said Jane S. Gerber, an expert on Sephardic history at the City University of New York.

The finding bears on two different views of Spanish history, said Jonathan S. Ray, a professor of Jewish studies at Georgetown University. One, proposed by the 20th-century historian Claudio Sánchez-Albornoz, holds that Spanish civilization is Catholic and other influences are foreign; the other sees Spain as having been enriched by drawing from all three of its historical cultures, Catholic, Jewish and Muslim.

The study, based on an analysis of Y chromosomes, was conducted by biologists led by Mark A. Jobling of the University of Leicester in England and Francesc Calafell of the Pompeu Fabra University in Barcelona. They developed a Y chromosome signature for Sephardic men by studying Sephardic Jewish communities in places where Jews migrated after being expelled from Spain in 1492 to 1496. They also characterized the Y chromosomes of the Arab and Berber army that invaded Spain in A.D. 711 from data on people living in Morocco and Western Sahara. [...]

Anusim magazine - in Spanish

The following is from a Spanish magazine that deals with Anusim. This is the Google translation.

"Where was thought that there were only ashes which the wind was charged to disperse them, sparking a fire appear thousandth of the Hebrew people, the descendants of Abraham through the Bnei Anusim arise everywhere expressing his desire to return to remain part the ancestral chain. " J.Magazine

"Anusim" (Hebrew: אנוסים), the plural for "anus" means "forced" in Hebrew. Este es el término legal rabínico aplicado a un Judío que ha sido forzado a abandonar el Judaísmo en contra de su voluntad, y quien hace todo lo que está en su poder para continuar practicando el judaísmo bajo la condición de coerción. This is the legal term applied to a Rabbinic Jew who has been forced to abandon Judaism against their will, and who does everything in its power to continue practicing Judaism under the condition of coercion. El término se deriva de aquel en el Talmud , “aberrá be’ones” [TB Abodá Zará 54a]. The term derives from the one in the Talmud, "Aberra be'ones" [TB Abode Zara 54th].

"Certainly, when it comes to the lineage, all the people of Israel are brothers. We are all children of a father, the rebels (reshaim) and the criminals, heretics (meshumadim) and forced (anusim), and proselytes ( guerim) that are attached to the house of Jacob. These are all Israelis. Even if left DS or denied or violated His Law, the yoke of the law is still on his shoulders and will never be removed from them. " R. She‘adyá ben Maimon ibn Danan (16th c.), Khemdah Genuzah , 15b She'adyá ben Maimon ibn Danan (16th c.), Khemdah Genuzah, 15b

Descendants of Anusim IV /Nancy replies

Nancy replies to comments made a few months ago in Desendants of marranos anusim III

Dear Bloggers/Daas Torah,

I have not checked this site in a very long time and was surprised at the attention my story received and the comments left. They are interesting and thought provoking. I would like to leave a response to a couple of the comments that may clarify just a point or two for whatever it may (or may not be worth), in connection with differences in Catholic ritual and Marrano Jewish identity:

"Marrano" is a Spanish word. (Small point.) Everyone who speaks Spanish knows it. Even in the Sephardi Heritage (Orthodox) Program in Jerusalem we are taught in the seminary that this word was given to the Jews who refused to eat pig. I assume our rabbis and our Sephardi History teachers know the subject, for this is what they teach. Older Spanish people normally know about this. It's a fascinating point made but if it's Arabic, it still wouldn't change a thing.

And, I assume you know Spanish people have two names, father's and mother's, the mother's name is placed at the end. We DO follow the mother's line and pull the records of her mother, her mother's mother...etc. It takes a long time because the records are handwritten and mostly owned by the Church of Spain. It's a huge task and 8 generations is more than most Ashkenazim have available. People normally don't have to go back 20 generations. The Church of Spain kept their eyes on Jewish families. They recorded the names of the families. All branches of my family are recorded upon the census of the Jews from the Church of Spain. Since the list exists I was more concerned about marriage after their arrival in the Americas.

Much information is known from the region the family comes from. For instance, Majorca and the Canary Islands were typically where the Marranos fled while awaiting passage to the New World. It was often a long wait and generations were born there until money was raised for the passage. Ships usually stopped at the Canary Islands on their way out to the Caribbean. It is very, very probable that anyone coming from these particular islands are escaping Catholic persecution. This is historical.

The custom of touching the door is completely different than that of touching wood to symbolize the "cross"....especially since this family did not allow crosses in their homes! A blessing spoken while touching the door post is quite different than simply touching wood. A cross in a Spanish country is readily excepted everywhere ....except in a Jewish home! Had the idea been to "touch the wood of the cross"....why not just have a cross???

Our women wore The Star of David under their garments. (They could have worn a cross.) Our family was very proud of being Jewish even though it was not public.

Spanish countries do not immerse. Spanish countries fall under "The Pope of Rome", not Orthodox, as the blogger mentioned could be a reason for immersion. Protestants immerse. Roman Catholics (for centuries) have used the "insertion method"...they pour the water upon the forehead for baptism. This baptism is done ONCE IN YOUR LIFE, whether Catholic OR Protestant OR Orthodox...any Christian, ONLY ONCE...not monthly! Puerto Rico is strictly Roman Catholic...they do not immerse. Only Jews immerse regularly. Christians do not. Originally baptism for the "forgiveness of sin", as they say, was performed late in life, (after they had all their fun), because it could only be given once in your lifetime.

I neglected to mention that my family spoke a "different type of Spanish" referred to as Ladino. We called it "the old Spanish". It comes from not being exposed to mainstream Spanish. It died out in our village 2 generations back. My father and mother remember it. I think it is fair to say that anyone who speaks Ladino is Jewish.

Also, many rabbis have reviewed the documents and are convinced. I agree with the bloggers and Daas Torah that not everyone is an expert and there are many considerations in Jewish Law. It's a complicated situation. Some of these details don't really matter so much and not all Marrano families have as strong ties with their Jewish identities. We just happen to be ones that do and we were separated from the rest of the population. It is a little rare.

In the end, we all have to go to the mikveh anyways! The Marranos, the Ethiopians...the difference is whether your natural father's name is on the certificate or "Abraham's". There is a difference in the wording of the immersion ritual. (This small difference means a lot to a Jew.
A Jew is really not supposed to be "converted".) My family went to exile...we are not gentiles.

I often wonder if this influx of Marranos from all over the world since the birth of Israel is what the prophets spoke about in many books and in the morning when we recite..."we will be gathered from all the nations where we were dispersed, even if at the end of the heavens, from there He will gather us and bring us....etc". If this is from G-d what are we doing trying to stop them? Will we have to answer for that? If we are mistaken and are actually hindering Jews from coming home, isn't that ... "bad"? I don't think it's all an accident this is happening at this time in history! Perhaps the events the prophets spoke of are rushing in on us?

Thank you printing my story and all the meaningful feedback.
Nancy

EJF - Proselytization Seminar/ Baltimore

EJF continues their program of proselytizing intermarried couples

The Eternal Jewish Family is presenting a seminar to educate intermarried couples who are seriously contemplating or seeking a universally accepted conversion. The theme of the seminar is When a Family Commits to Join the Jewish Family. It will be held at the Marriott Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Baltimore, Maryland, December 29-30th, 2008.

It is critical that when the commitment to become a full-fledged member of the Jewish people is made, the conversion meets all of the requirements of halacha. Then the union will be recognized by all rabbinic authorities across the globe. Couples, their children and their children'ss children will have the confidence to rely on this Universally Accepted Conversion.

The two-day seminar is similar to the successful seminars for intermarried couples held in Oxnard California, Phoenix, Arizona, and Montreal, Canada. Similar seminars were also held in Israel. Those who wish to attend should be currently seeking a universally accepted conversion, or have sought conversion which has been problematic.

Couples must be referred by the rabbi that they are working with and in most cases the rabbi himself joins the couple at the seminar. The seminar will educate couples on what it means to embark on such a serious and life-changing journey. Couples must be in the early stages of seeking a universally accepted conversion to attend.

The halachic conversion is vital for a family to be fully integrated into the Jewish lifestyle and community. Couples who do not obtain a universally accepted conversion may have problems being accepted into Jewish communities. This includes being unable to register their children in Jewish day schools.

Baltimore Seminar

December 2008

Marriott Baltimore,

Hunt Valley Inn

Seminar Brochure

The latest in our series of seminars for intermarried couples considering a universally accepted conversion will take place at the Marriott Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Baltimore on December 29-30, 2008. The two-day seminar comes on the heels of the successful seminars for intermarried couples in Oxnard, California, Phoenix Arizona, and Montreal Canada.

The theme of the educational seminar in Baltimore is “When a Family Commits to Join the Jewish Family.” It is designed for intermarried couples who have either decided to explore a universally accepted conversion or are in the very early stages of the process.

Sex offenders - Treatment in Charedi society

Haaretz reports:

לפני כחמש שנים פנה הרב יהודה סילמן, דיין בבית דין בבני ברק, לדורון אגסי, עובד סוציאלי דתי, וביקש ממנו עזרה בטיפול בעבריינות מין. הפנייה נשמעה כזעקת "געוואלד", ואגסי - שבעבודתו כמנהל פנימייה לילדים בסיכון בבני ברק הכיר את התחום מקרוב - הציע לטפל בפוגעים. לנגד עיניו עמד הניסיון המוצלח של שירות המבחן לנוער בטיפול בקבוצות, שהוצע לנערים עברייני מין כחלופה למאסר.

ההצעה נפלה על אוזניים כרויות. העיקרון בשיטה הזאת - שלא מרחיקים את העבריינים אל מחוץ לקהילה, כלומר לכלא, ושלא פותחים להם תיק במשטרה - נראה כפתרון שהמנהיגות החרדית יכולה לחיות אתו בשלום. כך, בגיבוי מלא של רבנים, ייסד אגסי את עמותת "שלום בניך" לילדים בסיכון. מאחורי השם המעורפל-משהו, עמדה לראשונה תוכנית חברתית ברורה לחשוף את ממדי עבריינות המין במגזר החרדי, ולטפל בה.

אלימות על רקע מיני מעוררת שאלות קשות מנשוא בחברה שמתהדרת בעליונות מוסרית. נראה שהיה דרוש איש מקצוע כמו אגסי, המשתייך לזרם החרד"לי ושמכיר היטב את גם את העולם החרדי וגם את העולם החילוני, כדי להוביל פריצת דרך. מראהו הישיבתי - ללא נעלי ההתעמלות והכיפה הסרוגה הגדולה היה יכול להיראות חרדי מהשורה - ורגישותו, עוררו אמון רב. הוא פעל למעשה כמתווך בין הקהילה החרדית לד"ר טליה אתגר, מומחית לטיפול בפוגעים בעמותת "עלם" לנוער בסיכון.

ההרתעה - הליכה לכלא

בשבוע שעבר הסתיים קורס ראשון מסוגו לטיפול קבוצתי בפוגעים שיועד למטפלים חרדים, יוזמת שלום בניך בשיתוף עם עלם. הקשר עם עלם נוצר לאחר חמש שנות מגעים עקרים עם שירות המבחן, ותעייה בסבך הביורוקרטיה של משרד הרווחה. מחצית המימון לקורס הושג לבסוף מתרומה (מחברת צ'ק פוינט); משרד הרווחה התחייב להשלים את המימון.

בקורס שנמשך כחצי שנה השתתפו 13 מטפלים. בקרוב יחלו בשלב המעשי: כל זוג מטפלים יעבוד במשך שנה וחצי עם קבוצה של חמישה נערים. הטיפול מתבסס על עימות התוקף עם אחריותו וחינוך להתנהגות מינית בהתאם לקודים של החברה החרדית. המסגרת הקבוצתית נועדה להעניק תמיכה ולחנך לכבוד הדדי.

המועמדים לטיפול הם נערים חרדים שנמצאים במסלול שירות המבחן לנוער או כאלה שלא חלה עליהם חובת דיווח משום שאינם מתאימים לסיווגים הנכללים כיום בחוק. העבודה אתם מותנית בשיתוף פעולה עם פקידת הסעד ועם רבנים. כל מקרה נבחן תחילה על ידי המרכז לאלימות מינית של עלם, ואחר כך עובר הערכת מסוכנות, שלפיה יחולקו הנערים לקבוצות.

גורם ההרתעה, לדברי אגסי, הוא החלופה: הנערים יודעים שאם לא ישתתפו בטיפול, ייפתח להם תיק במשטרה והם יישלחו לכלא. "עבריינות מין קיימת בכל חברה", אומרת אתגר, "והחברה החרדית לא שונה". לדבריה, אין נתונים על היקף התופעה משום שרק מעט מקרים מדווחים למשטרה. זה אחד הקשיים בהתמודדות עם הבעיה. לדבריה, מומחים מייחסים כיום משמעות רבה לתרבות שממנה בא התוקף, ולכן נפתחות כיום קבוצות נפרדות לרוסים, ערבים וחרדים.
[...].

History - The Don Pacifico Incident

The Talmud (Avoda Zara 11b) reports that every seventy years in Rome, a healthy man symbolizing Eisav was seated on a lame man symbolizing Yaakov, and as the two were paraded through the streets a proclamation was made that Yaakov's deceit of Eisav had not helped him because Eisav was firmly in charge.

Similar anti-Semitic ceremonies persisted through the centuries.

About 150 years ago, something unprecedented happened. The British Empire went to war to defend the rights of one Jew. For tourists with a taste for the bizarre, holiday brochures still advertise an ancient Christian ritual:

"In many parts of Europe, huge bonfires are lighted on hilltops and in churchyards on Easter Eve. They are sometimes called Judas fires, because effigies of Judas Iscariot are frequently burned in them."

Who was Judas Iscariot? He was the Jewish disciple of Christ who supposedly betrayed him to the Romans, although some modern scholars suspect that the Judas tale was deliberately fabricated in order to widen the schism between Judaism and fledgling Christianity.

To many Christians, Judas represented the quintessential Jew.

As St. Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, the most influential early Christian theologian put it in the 4^th century C.E., "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."

A recent Roman Catholic scholar wrote that the Judas story "was exploited as anti-Jewish polemic in dramatic literature and art, depicting Judas with grossly exaggerated Semitic features and generalizing his love for money."

All this harmonized with the kind of hate preached by Ambrose of Milan (379-395 C.E.) that laid the foundations of Hitler's Mein Kamf.

"The Jews are the most worthless of all men," he wrote. "They are greedy and rapacious.They are murderers of Christ and for killing god there is expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christian may never cease vengeance,and the Jews must live in servitude forever. It is incumbent upon all Christians to hate the Jews."

As the centuries rolled on, Jews began objecting to their burning in effigy.

A JEW'S HOUSE TORCHED

During Greece's War of Independence against Ottoman Turkey, the Jews were accused of supporting the enemy and the Greek Orthodox rebels massacred thousands of them. Many Jewish communities, including that of Athens were completely destroyed. In 5594/1834, King Otto I of Greece settled in Athens. With him came Max Rothschild, one of the Athens first "new" Jews.

The annual burning effigy burning in Athens revolted Rothschild. He complained about it to the Prime Minister, John Kolettis, and Kolettis agreed to abolish the custom.

When Easter time arrived, the Athenian mob were deeply aggrieved at the deprivation of their ancient sport and hit on an even better way to liven things up.

"Who needs effigies when we've got the real thing?" yelled a swarthy son of the southern sun. "Let's go and teach those Jews a lesson."

Snowballing in size and momentum, a boiling horde surged up to the house Don (David) Pacifico, a wealthy Jewish Portuguese. Pacifico and his family fled for their lives and the hooligans kicked open his front door and swept inside. Pandemonium broke out. Anything moveable was carted away, and everything left was smashed into splinters. As a grand finale, the house was burnt to the ground.

But the mob had made a grave mistake….

The article continues at:
http://amazingjewishfacts.com/

Mormons targeted for gay marriage ban support

Fox News reports:

In the nearly four weeks since Election Day, gay activists and thousands of their supporters have rallied outside Mormon temples around the country, protesting the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints' support for California's Proposition 8, the ballot initiative to make same-sex marriage illegal in the Golden State.

There have been calls to boycott the annual Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah; some activists have called for a boycott of the entire state of Utah. Protesters have defaced some church buildings, and in Arapaho County, Colo., the Sheriff's Office is investigating a possible hate crime — the torching of the Book of Mormon on a church's doorstep.

Even the state of California itself has announced that it is investigating the church's involvement in Proposition 8, which was approved by a vote of 52 percent to 48 percent and, barring a Supreme Court overturn, will ban gay marriage in the state.

There have been no other reports of backlash against other groups that supported Prop 8, notably African-Americans and other churches and religious denominations that turned out in heavy numbers to push through the ban.

Rabbi & Mrs. Holtzberg HY"D/Reminiscences

Prof. Isaac Balbin shares his personal memories - must read

In the beginning, Reb Gavriel and Rivki had a choice between Melbourne and Mumbai. They chose Mumbai. Hashem planned that our paths would cross one way or another.

Parshas Toldos in Melbourne, Australia has just concluded. It is a cool and quiet evening. After two days of frantic searching, the information I was dreading reached me via SMS on that morning. One of my colleagues in Mumbai had been sending me updates, as were my past students who had travelled to the Chabad House, at my request. I saw the words “we now pray for their souls, I am sorry” flash up momentarily on my phone only to quickly disappear. It was Shabbos and I couldn’t touch my cell phone. Frankly, I didn’t even want to. Instinctively, I knew what had happened—a nightmare on Hormusji Street [...]

Ramban & his wayward son?

The following story about the Ramban is found in Kav HaYashor chapter 81. Does anyone know of a source for this astounding tale? [see Haaretz]

ספר קב הישר - פרק פא

ראיה שמעתי מעשה נפלא שהרמב"ן ז"ל כתב בספרו דרוש אחד ואמר, "כל בר ישראל שהמיר דתו ועובד איזה ע"ז מן האומות אזי צריך לידע שאותו הבן אינו מזרע ישראל הוא, כי בוודאי הוא מזרע האומות או בן תמורה, ולא היו ימים מועטים עד שהמיר בן אחד מבני הרמב"ן את דתו, ואז שלח האפיפיור אחר הרמב"ן ואמר ראה הדרוש שלך שנדפס מקרוב ועתה נכשל זרעך בדבריך, ואז הלך הרב הרמב"ן ז"ל לביתו סר וזעף וכשבא לביתו היה יושב ובוכה על הארץ והיה מסגף בסיגופים גדולים והיה יותר מצער על הדרוש שהדפיס יותר מצער בנו שהמיר דתו, ולא היה אוכל ושותה כמה ימים, עד שבאה אשתו אליו והיתה מדברת על לבו שלא יהיה בצער כי פעם אחת היתה הולכת לבית הטבילה שהיה רחוק מביתה כשהיה לילה היתה רוצה לילך לבית בעלה אז ראה שר אחד את הוד יפיה וצוה השר לעבדיו שיקחו האשה לביתו והיה השר אונס אותה וממנו התעברה ואם לא תאמיט לי הרי יש אצבע שלו עדיין בידי שגרסתי בשיני את האצבע שלו, וכששמע הרב הרמב"ן ז"ל את דברי אשתו אז קם מהארץ והיה שמח שמחה גדולה ואמר לאשתו נחמתני, אז תכף אזר כגבר חלציו והלך להאפיפיור וספר לו דברים האלה, ותיכף שלח האפיפיור לאותו השר ובא אליו והיה על ידו בית היד שקורין הענטשי'ך וצוה האפיפיור להסיר ההענטשי'ך מעל ידו ולא רצה השר. ואז צוה האפיפיור לעבדיו להסיר בית היד שקורין הענשי"ך בחזקה מעל ידו אז ראה האפיפיור שחסר אצבע אחד מידיו, ושאל אותו מה טיבה של אצבע זו אז הודה השר שפעם אחת היה אונס אשת איש אחת מבני ישראל והיתה האשה גורסת את אצבעו בשיניה, אז אמר הרמב"ן "ראה שהתור' שלנו היא אמת ודברי חכמים ודברי ה' הן אמת".

All men are equal II - Critique & conclusion

What follows is my critique of the discussion between RaP and Rabbi Micha Berger. Pushing aside the smoke and mirrors in RaP's rhetoric it is obvious that his view is simply wrong and he has cited the Maharal out of context. What follows is first the main assertions of both sides with RaP's claim of victory because of his citation of the Maharal's views in chapter 1 of Tiferes Yisroel. Afterwards I discuss the issue and show citations from the Maharal and his student the Tosfos Yom Tov - which clearly reject the understanding that RaP has ascribed to the Maharal. Furthermore the Maharal - and the vast majority of Jewish sages - with the clear exception of the Baal HaTanya - state that all of mankind has a soul which distinguishes them from animals.

=======================================

RaP’s original assertion was that non-Jews have no neshma i.e., they are a form of animals – which is in fact the view of the Tanya.

The gentile is NOT a "tinok shenishba" and has NO neshama while the Jew has a 100% holy neshama, which the converting gentile presumably desires.

Doesn't the RAMBAM say somewhere that the difference between a goy and yid is like the difference between a monkey and a human?

2) RaP - when criticized by Rabbi Berger - modified his view by saying that while they have a neshama but it is not as elevated as that of a Jew.

Judaism holds that a non-Jew does not have THAT neshama that a Jew does have and indeed it is exactly THAT neshama that the sincere potential convert wants to have and should/does get upon immersion in the Bais Din's mikva when THAT neshama that he did NOT have enters into him/her upon immersion in the mikva of geirus. That is all I was saying and there was no need of you to move the issue into illogical non-relevant humanistic and globalistic egalitarian drive, when you could have just let the obvious Halachic reality stand without unnecessary questioning by you.

micha said

... Every human being has a neshamah. Proof: "vayipach be'apav nishmas chayim -- and He breated into his [Adam's] nostriles a living neshamah".

RaP responded

Wow. Sure. But not every human being has THE nashama of ADAM KADMON of Gan Eden who was a unique Godly being. But have you not heard of "atem kruyim adam ve'ein umos ha'olam keruyim adam"? ("You [the Jews/Children of Israel] are called [the true] Adam, and not the nations of the world who are not called Adam").

Ok show me where they ALL say that a goy has the EXACT same NESHAMA as a Yid and the Yidden and Goyim are FULLY equal in spiritual make-up IN ALL ASPECTS, which would make the whole process of geirus a totally point-less, hope-less, use-less and soul-less going through the motions procedure.

R' Micha Berger responded

If you would have said that non-Jews lack a second element to their neshamah, I would not have objected.

3) When it was pointed out that RaP had modified his original assertion that non‑Jews have no soul, RaP reverted back to his original assertion and denied ever modifying his position. He then brought a Maharal in the end of the first chapter of Tiferes Yisroel.

micha said...

You're changing your story from saying that non-Jews do not have a neshamah to saying they do not have the same kind of neshamah. I wouldn't have objected had that been your original claim.

RaP countered by saying

Umm, I am not sure where you see this. I am not changing my mind about anything and if you re-read my comments above I say at least five times that a Jew has a neshama and a goy does not.

As is typical in these type of arguments, the importance of winning obscures the truth.

RaP then presented what he called his knock-out punch - the Maharal's comments at the end of Chapter 2 of Tiferes Yisroel

The Maharal explains that what makes and distinguishes adam from other creatures is that the adam has a "Godly nefesh" and those (that is, the Israelites/Jews) who have the "Godly nefesh" they are ready for Godly things like prophecy and ruach hakodesh and he says that THIS MATTER YOU WILL ONLY FIND AMONG THE NATION THAT GOD CHOSE FOR HIMSELF THAT IS WHY THEY ARE CALLED ADAM SPECIFICALLY AND COMPLETELY BY VIRTUE THAT THEY POSSESS EVERYTHING THAT ADAM SHOULD HAVE, WHO IS SPECIFICALLY CALLED ADAM BECAUSE HE HAS THE GODLY QUALITY AND HE IS NOT OF THE NATURAL ORDER AND THEREFORE ATEM KRUIM ADAM/THE JEWS ARE ADAM AND THAT IS WHY THE MITZVOS THAT ARE GODLY ACTS ARE FOR YISROEL IN THERE ENTIRETY/PERFECTION

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Anyone who studies the Maharal knows that it is necessary to see what he says throughout his writings to understand what his views are on any issue. I am surprised that RaP who claims to be familiar with the Maharal missed this rather obvious and well known point. The Maharal has the tendency of making extreme assertions which are then modified elsewhere. A listing of where he discusses the relationship between Jews and non-Jews can be found in the indices of Rabbi Hartman’s critical edition of the Maharal. For example in the second section of Be’er HaGolah footnotes 562-563.

It is clear from these sources that the Maharal does not agree with the views of the Baal HaTanya that non-Jews have only an animal – not a human soul. Furthermore RaP totally misunderstands the view of the Rambam – as the Tosfos Yom Tov I have cited below explains. The Rambam did not distinguish between Jews and non-Jews. He distinguished between learned people and the ignorant. He states in Moreh Nevuchim that ignorant people are like monkeys and elsewhere (3:51) he states that the highest level of man is the philosopher (not the talmid chocham). We find a related understanding in the Chovas HaLevavos (1:2): The philosopher was right when he said that, ‘No one is truly able to serve G‑d except the prophet of the generation by his nature or the greatest philosopher through his acquired wisdom. All the others are actually worshiping something else because they cannot conceive of a being who is not a composite rather than a true unity.

In sum. From what I have seen, it is only the view of the Baal HaTanya that only Jews have a soul which distinguishes than from animals while everyone else acknowledges the humanity of all men and talks about gradations which are primarily the result of accepting the Torah. Consequently any non-Jew who either wants to keep the mitzvos or wants to convert - is able to. The same is not said concerning a monkey.

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Pirkei Avos (3:14): HE [ALSO] USED TO SAY: BELOVED IS MAN92 IN THAT HE WAS CREATED IN THE IMAGE [OF GOD]. [IT IS A MARK OF] SUPERABUNDANT LOVE [THAT] IT WAS MADE KNOWN TO HIM THAT HE HAD BEEN CREATED IN THE IMAGE [OF GOD], AS IT IS SAID: FOR IN THE IMAGE OF GOD MADE HE MAN.93

The Maharal states in his commentary to this Mishna essential the view that R’ Micha Berger has been saying all along. That non-Jews are also in G‑d’s image tzelem Elokim but that after the Giving of the Torah – the spiritual perfection is epitomized by Jews. However he clearly states at the end of his commentary to this mishna:

“ Even though the mishna says, ‘beloved is the Man’ this does not include all of the species of man. That is because our Sages have already said that ‘you are called Man and the nations of the world are not called ‘Man”. As if the perfection of Creation is limited to man i.e., to Jews and not the nations as we have explained many times. It is the Jews who are specfically call Man and this is something extremely clear. Even though this level is not exclusively found only in Jews – as is alluded to by the fact that the mishna hears says ‘beloved is the man’ and it doesn’t say ‘beloved are the Jews’. But there is still a significant difference between Jews and non-Jews. Even though this characteristic is specifically applied to Jews, nevertheless the image of Man is also found amongst the nations of the world. The point is that the epitome of this image of Man is not found amongst the nations. Nevertheless we find this image of Man amongst all the peoples of the world. However relative to the Jews it is not considered of significance. That is why the mishna doesn’t say ‘beloved are the Jews who were created in the image of G-d.’ Furthermore when man was created this characteristic was existed in Adam and Noach – even though they were not characterized as Yisroel (Jews). And if after G‑d chose the Jews this image was reduced in the non-Jews, nevertheless the Divine image still exists in them as they are Man. This is quite obvious."

ספר דרך חיים - פרק ג משנה יד

חביב האדם. מקשין על זה שאמר חביב האדם שנברא בצלם אלהים וגו', ואחר כך אמר חבה יתירה נודעת לו וכו', מה בא להוסיף שאמר חבה יתירה נודעת לו בודאי מאחר שנברא בצלם אלהים דבר זה נודע לו. וכן קשיא אצל חביבין ישראל שנקראו בנים, כי מה בא להוסיף במה שאמר חבה יתירה נודעת לו ובודאי כיון שנקראו בנים למקום דבר זה נודע לו, ועוד קשיא שמביא ראיה כי בצלם אלהים עשה את האדם והיה לו להביא ראיה ממה שאמר ויברא אלהים את האדם בצלמו, וכן קשה דמביא בנים אתם לד' אלהיכם ולמה לא הביא מקרא דכתיב (שמות ד') בני בכורי ישראל, ועוד קשיא שאמר חביבין ישראל שנתן להם כלי חמדה וגו', כי לפי הנראה כי הכל הוא חבה אחת כי בשביל שהם בנים למקום נתן להם התורה שהיא כלי חמדה, ועוד מאי כלי חמדה דקאמר כי למה קראו התורה כלי חמדה. ועוד עיקר הפירוש של בצלם אלהים נברא האדם לא ידענו מה הוא הצלם הזה, שאם פירוש הצלם תאר הגוף דבר זה אין לומר כלל שיהיה מיוחס אל השם יתברך תאר וצורת הגוף, ואם פירושו שנברא האדם בצלם אלהים היינו השכל שבאדם וכמו שפירש הרמב"ם ז"ל הצלם שנזכר בכתוב, דבר זה אין מוכח כך, כי מה שנאמר כאן חביב האדם על כרחך פירושו שהוא חביב אף מן המלאכים, כי מה שהאדם חביב מן הבהמה וכי דבר זה צריך לומר ועל כרחך פירושו שהאדם חביב אף מן המלאכים וכמו שיתבאר, ובודאי יש במלאכים דעת וחכמה. ואפילו אם תאמר כי לא בא לומר רק כי יש לאדם המעלה היתירה שהוא בתחתונים, מכל מקום היה זה נכלל במה שאמר חביב האדם שנתן להם התורה שהתורה בודאי חכמה ודעת ולכך מוכרח לומר כי דבר זה ענין בפני עצמו:

...

ואף שאמר חביב האדם, אין זה כולל כל מין האדם, כי כבר אמרו ז"ל כי אתם קרוים אדם ואין האומות קרוים אדם, כאלו שלימות הבריאה שהוא לאדם בפרט, הוא לישראל לא לאומות, כאשר בארנו פעמים הרבה, מה שישראל בפרט נקראים אדם, והוא דבר ברור מאד. ואף כי מעלה זאת אינה רק לישראל בלבד, אמר על זה חביב האדם ולא אמר חביבין ישראל, וזה כי הפרש גדול יש, אף כי גם מעלה זו היא לישראל בפרט, מ"מ יש צורת אדם באומות ג"כ, רק שעיקר צורת אדם לא נמצא באומות, מ"מ נמצא הצלם הזה אצל שאר אומות, רק שאינו נחשב לכלום ולכך לא אמר חביבין ישראל שנבראו בצלם אלהים. ועוד כי כאשר נברא האדם היה מעלה זאת לאדם ולנח אף כי אינם בשם ישראל נקראים ואם אחר שבחר השי"ת בישראל נתמעט הצלם הזה אצל האומות, מ"מ הצלם האלהי הוא שייך לאדם במה שהוא אדם ודבר זה מבואר:

The Tosfos Yom Tov – who was perhaps the most important student of the Maharal says the same thing – but specifically rejects the understand that RaP is reading into the Maharal in Tiferes Yisroel:

תוי"ט (אבות ג:יד): חביב אדם שנברא בצלם חבה יתירה וכו' שנאמר בצלם אלהים עשה אתהאדם - פירש"י חביב אדם שנברא בצלם. לכן מוטל עליו לעשות רצון קונו. ע"כ. ובכל אדם אמר ר"ע. וכמו שהוא הראיה שממנו הביא שהוא נאמר לבני נח לא לבני ישראל לבדם ורצה ר"ע לזכות את כל אדם אף לבני נח. ומאמר מלא אמר הרמב"ם בפ"ח מהלכות מלכים [הלכה י']. וז"ל צוה משה רבינו ע"ה מפי הגבורה לכוף את כל באי העולם לקבל מצות שנצטוו בני נח. וכל מי שלא יקבל יהרג והמקבל אותם הוא הנקרא גר תושב בכ"מ וכו' כל המקבל שבע מצות ונזהר לעשותן. הרי זה מחסידי אומות העולם ויש לו חלק לעוה"ב. והוא שיקבל אותן ויעשה אותן. מפני שצוה בהן הקב"ה בתורה. והודיענו ע"י מרע"ה שבני נח מקודם נצטוו בהן. אבל אם עשאן מפני הכרע הדעת אין זה גר תושב ואינו מחסידי אומות העולם. ולא [צ"ל אלא] מחכמיהם. עכ"ל. ומעתה אני תמה למה זה רחקה הדרך מן המפרשים ולא רצו ללכת בה לפרש דברי ר"ע שאמר מאמרו כלפי כל אדם כי אם לישראל בלבד. ונסמכו במאמרם ז"ל אתם קרויים אדם וכו' והרי זה דרש על דרש. ובזה נכנסו בדוחק ענין הצלם. ובפי' הכתוב שהביא לראיה. אבל בעיני זו הדרך דרך סלולה ומרווחת כי בא ר"ע להיישיר לכל באי עולם כאשר נצטוינו מפי מרע"ה כדברי הרמב"ם. ואם בכפיית חרב הרג ואבדן נצטוינו כ"ש בכפיית דברים. להמשיך לבם אל רצון קונם וחפץ צורם. יזכרם לטובה. ושהם חביבים שנבראו בצלם להורות נתן בלבם. כי זאת תורת האדם לעשות חוקי אלהים ומשפטיו מצד אשר הוא צוה כדברי הרמב"ם דהואיל שחבבו לבראו בצלמו. לכן מוטל עליו לעשות רצון קונו כפירש"י. והשתא אתי שפיר דנקט להך קרא. אע"פ שיש כמה מקראות הקודמים אליו שנאמר נעשה אדם בצלמנו. אבל זה המקרא הוא שנאמר גבי המצות שנצטוו בהם. לכך הביא לזה הכתוב שכן אמרו הש"י בטעם המצוה אשר צוה אותם כי בצלם אלהים עשה את האדם ולבני נח נאמר הכתוב. ולבני נח אמר ר"ע דבריו הללו. ואתי נמי שפיר שאמר שנברא בצלם. וחסר הנסמך שהוא אלהים הנאמר בכתוב. ואילו גבי בנים אמר שנקראו בנים למקום. והיינו טעמא שזו ג"כ מדברי התוכחה להוכיחם ולומר שהם נבראו בצלם ובאיזה צלם נבראו בצלם אלהים כאומר שהבריאה היתה בצלם אלהים אבל הואיל ואינם מקיימים מצותיו ואע"פ שאם מקיימים אינם מקיימים מפני אשר צוה אותם אלהים. הנה הם חסרים מתואר צלם אלהים. ועוד מענין צלם בעצמו שהוא כפירוש הרמב"ם בתחלת ספר המורה שהוא ההשגה השכלית אשר בו יתייחד האדם. ונתעצם באמתת מה שהוא והנה תכלית ההשגה השכלית הזאת הוא ידיעת אלהים כפי האפשר בכח האדם והשגתו. ולפיכך נתחכם החכם השלם הזה שלא אמר אצלם בצלם אלהים לפי שהם חסרים באמת מידיעת אלהים והכתוב שאומר בצלם אלהים עשה לומר שכן נבראו כלומר שהיא היתה כונת הבריאה באדם שיהא לו השגה שכלית מגעת לידיעת אלהים. אבל לפי שבאמת לא ידעו ולא יבינו ובחשיכה יתהלכו ולא יצאה הכונה אל הפועל מן הראוי שיאמר שנבראו בצלם. ולא בצלם אלהים אחרי שהכונה שהיא השגת אלהים לא נשלמה. ואין בהם אלא הכנה בלבד. ואותה ראוי להקרא צלם בלתי הנסמך שהוא אלהים. זה נראה לי בפי' מאמר ר"ע. ולפי זה מדוקדק יפה המשנה שאחר זו הכל צפוי וכו' כמו שאבאר שם בס"ד. ועוד שגם בזה יש ג"כ חבה יתירה נודעת בישראל שאע"פ שכבר חבבם כמו לכל אדם בצלם אלהים אשר עשהו בו. אעפ"כ לא זז מחבבן עוד ביתר שאת ויתר עז שנקראו בנים למקום. וזה שאת ומעלה יתירה. ובכלי חמדה היא התורה אשר נתן להם. וזהו עוז. כענין שנאמר (תהלים כ"ט) ה' עוז לעמו יתן. [שדרשוהו ז"ל בפרק פרת חטאת [בזבחים דף קט"ז] על התורה]:

Profile of Rabbi & Mrs. Holtzberg

NYTimes: Prof. Isaac Balbin shares his personal memories - must read

In 2003, barely out of their teens and newly married, Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg and his wife, Rivka, moved from Brooklyn to the coastal city of Mumbai, India, to manage a mix of educational center, synagogue and social hall known as a Chabad house, one of about 3,500 outposts around the world run by the Lubavitch Hasidic movement.

The place soon became a year-round magnet for Israeli backpackers and the Jewish businessmen and tourists who flock to Mumbai, as well as for the Iraqi and Indian Jews who live there. Mrs. Holtzberg served visitors coffee and homemade kosher delicacies. Rabbi Holtzberg always offered a helping hand to someone who was sick or stranded, often calling worried parents or spouses miles and miles away to calm them.

On Wednesday, the Holtzbergs’ Chabad house became an unlikely target of the terrorist gunmen who unleashed a series of bloody coordinated attacks at locations in and around Mumbai’s commercial center.

Firing grenades and automatic weapons, the men also took the Holtzbergs and at least six other people hostage in the Chabad house, according to friends of the Holtzbergs. The couple’s 2-year-old son, Moshe, and a cook managed to escape about 12 hours into the siege, the friends said. The boy’s pants were soaked in blood when he emerged. By late Thursday afternoon in New York, there was still no news of his parents’ fate.[...]