Wednesday, February 24, 2016

The real ‘Mandate’ of Rav Dovid Feinstein and the Gedolim (Agudah)

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MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: SAVING YIDDISHKEIT
The real ‘Mandate’ of Rav Dovid Feinstein and the Gedolim (Agudah)
PS. WE CAN SAVE OURSELVES!


If the situation were only as severe, as twisted as Rabbi Eidensohn reports, that Rabbi Dovid Feinstein may rule that there is sufficient halachic basis to allow the Greenblatt/Kaminetsky heter, regardless if the heter is true, due to his mandate to save RSK’s reputation. This is mere political corruption. 

However, I have credible information regarding the ‘Mandate’ that posits another motivation, one that reveals the disrespect, disregard, and I dare say disdain the American Gedolim have for their flock, the people. My sources report that the real ‘mandate’ is to save Yiddishkeit! R' Dovid and the Gedolim (Agudah) believe that we, the people, cannot handle the truth that a Gadol Yisroel has failed, has made a mistake, is not infallible. In plain words, they think that we are no better than brainwashed cult followers, robots, mindless followers who would leave Hashem, leave Yiddishkeit, because of mistaken or corrupt Gedolim. This is a canard, in essence, a motzi sham ra against klal Yisroel.

The following is a vort regarding the following verse from Shir HaYam, “This is my G-d and I will beautify Him, the G-d of my fathers and I will exult Him.” I was fortunate to learn this when my children were very young; I drilled this into their hearts and minds. “This is my G-d” refers to the chozrim b'teshuvah. They find Hashem, in essence, immediately; their challenge is to come to the mesora, the “G-d of my fathers”, to come face to face with the likes of Yehuda HaNasi, the Rambam, the Chofetz Chaim, and this struggle is the work of a lifetime. Conversely, the FFB was given the “G-d of my fathers” as an inheritance; their challenge is to come to a true revelation that, “This is my G-d”, and they face a lifelong struggle to see that their Avoda Hashem not become stale and rote. This vort is drash; pshat is that BT’s and FFB’s face both challenges. All Jews strive to know Hashem and His Torah, to beautify and exalt Him, regardless of the perfection or imperfection of their leaders. As Rabbi Avigdor Miller, zt’l, pointed out, ‘Gedolim come and go’.

The Maskilim, Reformists, Bundists, and Zionists destroyed European Jewry spiritually before WW2. A few embers, a few Great Men, were plucked from the flames that engulfed our People during the War, including the fathers of Rabbis Dovid Feinstein and Shmuel Kaminetsky. These men were able to rebuild Yiddishkeit in America and Eretz Yisroel due to the fact that they would not sacrifice or compromise emmes. Also, the great majority of frum Yidden would not compromise. The children and grandchildren from that generation are demanding higher standards of kashrus, seeking higher standards of Torah study, etc. 

R’ Shmuel Kaminetsky, just by admitting that he was mistaken, can rise to be the Rabbenu Yona of our Generation.  

R’ Dovid, Gedolim (Agudah), your flock is strong. All we want is that you...; no, we demand the emmes!

62 comments :

  1. Somehow we survived Yochanan Kohain Gadol going bad. Does one think that in those days they established a Bais Din to decide that he was right? Surely Klal Yisroel can survive Rabbi Kaminetsky's removal from public positions.

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  2. We have had Moshe Rabeinu, Asher yechto Nosi, David hamelech err, admonished, repented and moved on. Life doesn't end here. You can ask for a soft landing, but you got to do what you have to do. It is so much easier when there is a pause for a ceasefire, rather than wait for the storm after the calm. RNG already said he would not have done it, had he been given the truth. Let TE come forth and apologize Aron for all the Agmat nefesh she wrongfully caused him and let Klall Yisrael put this all in the past. Yes, Emes es iz shver tzu zein a Yid, but this will be good for Yidden. This is the shortest way out. Amen, ken yehi ratzon.

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  3. We have problems with some rabbis such as RSK and RNG. But we also have problems with the Agudah. Several years ago, they supported gays in a Defense Bill. I called up two of the senior Agudah Rosh Yeshivas and asked them for help in battling gays. They both said these words, "We are against hate" so it is forbidden to fight gays. These are the people who have sanctified Shmuel Kaminetsky. Pheh.

    By the way, I am tempted to make a Shvuoah on a Sefer Torah that I heard from very prominent Agudah Rosh Yeshivas. "We are against hate" so it is "forbidden to fight gays." This is not the only problem. The whole organization has nothing to do with Torah as I understand it. I heard from a Gadol in the previous generation that what goes on in the Yeshiva world is not acceptable. His exact words were "A Yeshiva is hashchoso."

    I will not tell you any oaths to confirm these quotes, but I turn to heaven and tell the Beth Din shel Maaoh, that to the best of my ability, I heard these two statements, from two major Rosh Yeshivas of the Agudah about the sin of fighting gays, and the criticism of Yeshivas by a major Torah personality of the past generation.

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  4. This story warrants further investigation for obstruction of justice.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/attempted-abduction-case-brooklyn-falls-article-1.2542345

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  5. The writer of this post concludes, "R’ Dovid, Gedolim (Agudah), your flock is strong. All we want is that you...; no, we demand the emmes!" That is a very admirable demand, and yes the flock is strong, but if it accepts people who think they are great enough to be Gedolim and invent the Torah right and left, or they think that the main purpose of Torah is to get liberal politicians to give money to the Agudah and Yeshivas, what hope is there?
    I have a blog about the hideous effort, which is succeeding with almost no opposition, to force all women to apply to the draft, and if there is a draft, they must join the army and fight along men in all areas of the world. If the government decides they should not join the army but should serve the country by going to neighborhoods that are completely dangerous for anyone and teach people who live with violence and drugs, they must go. There are no exemptions for religious women. And nobody cares. Not the Agudah, not anybody. Well, I care. And I care that the Agudah doesn't care. I care about that plenty.
    See my blog at www.womenmakewar.blogspot.com. I have extensive material there on the extraordinary abuse of women not only in the military but also in Harvard College and other colleges. כבודה בת מלך פנימה So why is nobody concerned that Obama is fighting tooth and nail, and winning right and left, in his drive to force all women, including religious ones, to sign up for the draft and to serve in wars and other services to the country. Such is יהרג ואל יעבור .

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  6. Check it out, but the week that the NYS Assembly passed the Gay Marriage bill, Agudah had Assembly Speaker Silver on their dais at their dinner. Remember, in those days nothing passed the assembly without Silver's approval. They needed him for money. More important than Torah.

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  7. There is little to say.

    The simplest way to put it is:

    Thank you to the Eidenshon brothers for utterly self-disqualifying yourselves as having any possibly legitimate deoh in the Torah community here in the USA. Claiming and publicising that RDF would be mattir eishes ish for political purposes is frankly the nail in the coffin. (I wonder where Philly Woman and all the other chassidim are now...)

    And for all the rest of you out there, that's why when there is a machlokes between gedolim you shutup and stay out of it. You never quite know where you'll end up standing...

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  8. They are right. It is not our --- or anyone's --- job to fight gays. You have to fight the sin not the sinners. (Resist your silly temptations to make Shvuoahs on a Sefer Torah. Its silly. Grow up.).

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  9. I don't know who you spoke to or if they were just trying to push you off but everyone with a brain realizes that although the agudah is not pro-gay their support for a candidate is never a one issue item so if they feel the candidate will be better for Jews in other ways (Israel, money, school choice etc) they will support them despite their stance on gay marriage etc. obviously other Gedolim disagree but this is clearly their approach and it has nothing to do with fighting hate and other shtusim

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  10. Nachman Stern,

    You write thanks to me and my brother for "utterly disqualifying yourself as having any possibly legitimate deoh in the Torah community here in the USA. Claiming and publicizing that RDF would be matter eishes ish for political purposes is frankly the nail in the coffin."
    Nachamn,you are lying through your teeth, if you have any teeth left. This is what I wrote, "As one very prominent person told me, Rav Dovid will surely not permit Tamar to remarry without a GET, but if he phrases his negative attitude in a manner that shows that RSK is still a Gadol, or if he phrases it in a way that does not clearly indicate how bad it was and how wicked it was, this will be a great problem. I spoke yesterday at length with two major poskim, and both were very upset about the Beth Din and wished that it would disappear." Thus, what you wrote that I said about Reb Dovid that he would be matir aishess ish is a bald lie. And furthermore, what I said was based upon my discussions with two people who are from the most senior members of the poskim in the world. If you don't like them, well, I am sure they will find somebody to comfort them. Somebody who is not a bald liar. When you write a lie about somebody in public, you are motsi shem rav and I never have to forgive you. But I don't know if somebody like you cares about those things.

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  11. Where is there is a "machlokes between gedolim" here? Which Gadol is saying that Tamar Epstein is not committing adultery? For example, I called Rabbi Greenblatt after Tamar Epstein remarried, and he told me Aharon Friedman must still give Tamar a Get. This indicates to me that Rabbi Greenblatt was acknowledging that the Halacha considers Tamar an adulteress. How would you interpret his statement? Perhaps we can say that the "machlokes" you refer to is between Rabbi Greenblatt and himself.

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  12. Exactly how would you fight against homosexual activity without fighting against the homosexuals who are promoting participation in this behavior and against bills that would create a special punishment for those who try to prevent homosexual activity?

    Seems your suggestion is silly.

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  13. We are all still here with RDE and if you think it's not a possibility keep your head in the sand ignorance is bliss

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  14. I believe that before predicting what will or will not happen, we should just wait until R' Dovid concludes his investigations...

    Additionally, there is now a lot more that he has to Pasken then just if they must separate.....

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  15. This motzei Shabbat at project inspire in Stanford Connecticut. Hagaan harav Shmuel kaminetzki will be speaking.

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  16. To the one who wrote the above "Guest Post":



    You have to be kidding if you think that a sitting Bais Din headed by R Dovid Feinstein, and the American Agudas Yisroel, are in any way going to pay attention to your childish drivel!



    You mean well, but you are out of your league, and don't start up with these people, they are in "battle mode" right now.



    Why do you want to provoke the lions, so they should come out and bite you?

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  17. Who is "we"? Please explain. Thanks.

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  18. FedupwithcorruprabbisFebruary 25, 2016 at 8:32 AM

    First Of All why is Aron Friedman not allowed in shul after his wife remarried? Aron, dont ever GIVE THE GET until a proper apology is made, and youre paid for all your humiliation etc...and only after Shmuel Kaminetsky admits that he was wrong!

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  19. “However, I have credible information regarding the ‘Mandate’ that posits another motivation, one that reveals the disrespect, disregard, and I dare say disdain the American Gedolim have for their flock, the people. My sources report that the real ‘mandate’ is to save Yiddishkeit!”

    Rabbi Dovid Feinstein and his beit din should move to Israel and should tell their people to do likewise !

    There is a parallel with my NYS Court of Appeals motion 2016-125 date February 16, 2016. I ask the court to hear my case and to subpoena all records and files in the lower courts with my name. Did I violate any NYS law by divorcing Susan on his initiative 2/17/1993 and then immediately moving on with my life by marrying Yemima 5/9/1993 without NYS court approval? The NYS Court of Appeals will reject my case only if they feel they have a mandate to protect NYS judges from defamation. My case will reveal the disrespect, disregard and disdain NYS judges have for NYS laws, fairness and justice.

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  20. you really think that they would take off time from their critical work of klall Yisroel to criticize an anonymous blog post?!

    What battle mode are you talking about? where is thebattle and who are they fighting?

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  21. The story is sickening.

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  22. RaP, you state that it is ridiculous to think that, "a sitting Bais Din headed by R Dovid Feinstein, and the American Agudas Yisroel, are in any way going to pay attention to your childish drivel", while on the other hand, you warn against 'starting up with these people' and asserting that this 'childish drivel' will 'provoke the lions'. Please clarify this stunning contradiction.

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  23. Politically IncorrectFebruary 25, 2016 at 1:05 PM

    If only they would be in battle mode....

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  24. Politically IncorrectFebruary 25, 2016 at 1:07 PM

    What's taking so long, already!?

    A lot more to pasken? Like what? What the Agudah wants?

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  25. Politically IncorrectFebruary 25, 2016 at 1:15 PM

    You speak for yourself. That's why there are 80,000 visitors to this blog.

    Why is Reb Dovid Feinstein any less touchable than Reb Shmuel? Because he does not involve himself in politics, to take a stance (for the most part) as he told me himself! If he would, he'd be fair game by the speakers of truth.

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  26. Politically IncorrectFebruary 25, 2016 at 1:17 PM

    I heard this before, before she got married that he should give a get l'chumra. Never heard such a thing before. ..am I missing something? ...

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  27. "why is AF not allowed in shul" - From this we see clearly that the true agenda of the OH-RAH feminists in Silver Spring and elsewhere is persecution and expulsion from the "frum" communities of non-feminist, Torah observant men.

    The GET, when it can be used as a bludgeon, is simply a tool in the arsenal of the feminists. When the GET is no longer valid, the bare naked persecution campaign continues without even a pretext being offered.

    The response of any self-respecting, Torah observant men should be: a complete boycott of all "Orthodox" feminist temples,institutions, and organizations.

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  28. There is a factor to consider. It is possible that Rav Dovid knows the Kaminetzskys may not follow what he says. In that case it may be better that he says nothing at all.

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  29. if R' Dovid Shlita is going to pasken on aishes ish, it means now she is a safaik aishes ish. Don't we go lechumra? So why isn't she told to have him move out of her house alts safaik??

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  30. What factor is "a lot more then just if they must separate"?

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  31. if R' Dovid Shlita is going to pasken on aishes ish, it means now she is a safaik aishes ish. Don't we go lechumra? So why isn't she told to have him move out of her house alts safaik??

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  32. By sweeping it under the rug and fight instead those that are trying to stop it. You then have to contend with these victims taking their own lives commiting suicides, as TWO of them nebach happened in Brooklyn last week, ve'ein potze peh umtzaftzef. Those same entities that are the cover uppers and under-the-rug sweepers along with the *machers*, sweep the principal's son there as well. Olam hafuch ra'isi, protect the perpetrators, and throw the victims under the bus since they are damaged goods and expendable. The fish starts to rot and stink from the head, begining with cover ups for mushchosim, upgrade to matir eishes ish lashuk, ending up with mamzeirim R'L'. Benoisecho nesunim leam acher C.V. ve'ein loel yodecho.
    The eyes of our TRUE GEDOLIM are upon them, watch it like a hawk, and better clean up house or ELSE!

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  33. Exactly. Why aren't they showing compassion for this (supposedly) mentally troubled young man.

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  34. Even if RSK thinks he is totally in the right, why does he not resign his position with Agudah so that Agudah is not dragged into the controversy. Do the words Baal Gaiva fit?

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  35. Politically IncorrectFebruary 25, 2016 at 5:57 PM

    The million dollar question. ...

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  36. The gedoilei haPoskim, nimnu vegomru, they already have spoken. This blog proves that there is no Stom Piyot. The facts are known, nothing more to investigate. All agree that this fiasco has been false through and through from Adam.

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  37. The same question can be asked about his action in Silver Spring. If he got a supposed annulment to the marriage, then Aron Friendman does not need to give a get. If so, there is absolutely no excuse for anyone to be excommunicating him. Yet, RSK has not gone into Silver Spring to try to stop their abuse of Aron, which had originated at his request.

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  38. He is trying to spread a rumor that she is pregnant.

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  39. If you can't figure it out, just ask anyone who knows Shulchan Aruch Even Ha'Ezer....

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  40. Remember what happened with eisavs teeth?

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  41. Not spreading any rumors at all.

    However, as any Posek, or Beis Din fluent in these topics knows that possibility exists.

    The typical Psak in these topics is: תצא מזה ומזה והוולד

    If they are officially asking for a final Psak in this matter, that must be ruled on as well. Either a Safeik or a Vadei, it should be addressed.

    Rav Dovid has his hands full here, allow him the due time to be thorough.

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  42. Why would you mention this?

    There is a very big chance that he won't address offspring at all.

    When you say to allow him the due time, what is the time-frame? Has he convened at all over the past two weeks, or are they vacationing from the case and continuing on with their lives?

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  43. I actually heard that she is expecting from someone involved who wouldn't make up stories. He may have received bad information, but I doubt it.

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  44. I think the Bais Din bit off more then they can swallow on this one.

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  45. Why not in the mean time ad ki yaavor zaam at least Pasken to stop be RODEF Aron?

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  46. Which town does the "couple" live in?

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  47. Anoshim roim vachtoim laHashem MEOD.

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  48. "The making of a Mamzer", according to the grapevine.

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  49. So why did he give chupa vekidushin without the necessary Get? Because he was duped, therefore the Heter never flew.

    This thingy is a *HOT POTATO* dovor shehayad ho'odom soldos bohen, I think at the end of the day he will drop it and throw it right back into their lap and let them hold on to the bag.

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  50. Adam works and resides in NJ, TE in PHILY, PA. There is sholom bayis b'h'

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  51. He was apparently Mesader Kiddushin because he gave a Heter to remarry, while at the same time full knowing that the Halacha requires that a Get is required before the marriage.

    My understanding is that the Heter was based on a Tshuva of Reb Moshe zt"l. As we know, the conditions of the Tshuva were not met. And even if they were met, the underlying professional report was a fraud. And Reb Moshe himself wrote in that Tshuva that he was coming up with something that does not have precedence.

    Rabbi Grenblatt was having it both ways. He was ruling that Tamar Epstein could remarry without a Get and ruling that the Halacha requires that a Get be given.

    Which brings up an interesting question. When Reb Moshe used the technique outlined in his Tshuva, he did not require a Get. The reason Reb Moshe did not require a Get was because he only applied this technique when it was impossible for a Get to be given.

    So was not Rabbi Greenblatt's statement to me that Aharon Friedman has to give a Get tantamount to Rabbi Greenblatt saying he was not following Reb Moshe's Tshuva?

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  52. I reported on this blog two years ago that I called Rabbi Shalom Kamenetsky after Tamar was declared "free". Rabbi Kamenetsky said that a "get l'chumra" should be given, but was not necessary as a condition for Tamar to remarry.

    Now, before the new "marriage", we might have thought a Get was required by Rabbi Kamenetsky so that no one should get the impression that a woman can remarry without a Get. But after the marriage it seems to me that the continued demand for a Get can only be because those demanding a Get recognize that Halachically Tamar is an adulteress and her future offspring from her "husband" will be Mamzerim without the Get.

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  53. I'm sorry, I still haven't figured out what this hetter has to do with Rav Shmuel K.
    So far, we've seen lots of activity surrounding this hetter coming from Rav Sholom K. Rav Shmuel may or may have not been privy to the information Rav Sholom passed on to RNG; he merely vouched for RNG and trusted his son to act with erlichkeit. This is hardly the first time that a gadol gave his son too much credit. (There was a different gadol and posek in the last generation who gave too much credit to his son-in-law and grandson. Does that disqualify him as aposek or an ish emmes?)
    after the hetter was given, Rav Shmuel allowed Tamar to remarry based on a hetter given by RNG. He stated in his letter to the BDZ of Jerusalem that he is willing to submit the question to Rav DF, which has finally happened. Where is the corruption here?
    According to talmidim of Philly that I've spoken to, Rav Sholom is the problem here. His father does not want to throw him under the bus. Does that disqualify Rav Shmuel from being a Torah leader in other areas?
    If, after RDF and his BD rule l'issur and Rav Shmuel continues this way, we may have a different set of facts. Give the BD some time, hevu mesunim badin. Let's all get busy with other things for now.

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  54. Politically IncorrectFebruary 26, 2016 at 1:19 PM

    I did hear he was the one who said that. ....or maybe I got it from you. ...:-)

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  55. good point. And how does RNG explain that now? Outside of that was then and this is now lol.

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  56. I don't know but will ask.

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  57. There is much documentation on this blog that RSK knew about and approved of his son's action. RNG would never have annulled the marriage without RSKs approval and consent. Not to mention the illegal seruv against AF. Read the archives.

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  58. The only documentation I saw about Rav Shmuel's involvement in drafting the hetter was a document written by his son stating that his father agreed to this hetter (before it was issued). This may or may not be true, Even if true, it can be interpreted as a very narrow approval (only to the theoretical hetter, not to the veracity of the facts regarding AF's condtion, savra vekibla, etc.). If you know of any other document, please let me know.
    The assumption what RNG would not have done is pure conjecture.
    I was not referring to the seruv. While we have seen BBD's record of the story, we have not seen or heard any rationale behind Rav Shmuel's actions in that affair.
    I have heard (unconfirmed) that Rav Shmuel held that at one point the BBD lost jurisdiction over the case because of certain events.
    Regardless, before we judge him we need to bear in mind the basic halachos of dan lechaf zechus especially with regard to someone who is muchzak to be a talmid chacham yerei shamayim, let alone one of the gedolei hador.

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  59. Please tell me what this letter says?
    You might also look at the letter Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky wrote to Rav Weiss of the Eida Chareidis asking him not to protest against the heter - which clearly goest against your understanding of his involvement

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  60. True chutzpah! How dare you confuse him with the facts? And if he decided that the Baltimore Beis Din somehow "lost" jurisdiction, and handed it over to Martin Walmark, Gavriel Forgetful Stern and Aryeh Ralbag, (out in Monsey and Brooklyn), then it must be so.

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  61. My sources, which are solid, have informed me that two sessions were scheduled for this past week. However, due to issues beyond R' Dovid's hand (i.e. Sholom can't make it, RNG will only come if Sholom comes...) neither day worked out.

    If Sholom really believes in his concocted "heter", (that he fed to RNG, with the aid of his father) he would have already eagerly shown up.

    In the meantime, last night you had over a thousand people be Mechabed a person who - at the very least - could have prevented Aishes Ish!! And that is being kind...

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  62. I don't think I've seen this letter before. But while I concede that it does confirm that Rav Sholom claims to have shown everything to his father, it does not confirm this to be the objective reality.
    In addition,there is no indication to what extent Rav Shmuel analyzed the facts, being that he was never intending to pasken the shayla. His "agreement" "listening" etc. may be nothing more than casual interest in the construction of the hetter.
    His letter to the BDZ is an attempt to save his son's reputation and it shows that he was interested in getting the woman a hetter from RNG, nothing else.

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