Sunday, July 28, 2013

Lakewood: Child abuse must be handled by a beis din which doesn't exist!?

It has been a number of weeks since the Kolko confession and conviction. What lessons have been learned? Of course the most important question is what lesson has Lakewood learned?

On the face of it, it seems that Lakewood made a major mistake in how they handled the Kolko case. Kolko himself has confessed to being a molester to the secular court. He has allegedly also confessed before a number of rabbis who were scheduled to testify to this fact at the trial. Apparently then we have certified by both halacha and secular law that Kolko is in fact a child molester.

However if this is truth is obvious – then why has the Lakewood establishment been silent? Why haven't they at least acknowledged that they made a mistake and apologized to the family that they drove out of Lakewood for the alleged crime of mesira? Isn't it obvious to them that there was no mesira because the father's concern was to protect other children from an actual child molester?

The answer that I am hearing from Lakewood is a resounding, "No!" There are many who still claim that the reporting of Kolko constituted mesira – in particular Rabbi Yisroel Belsky. Rabbi Belsky in fact claimed in a letter that circulated Lakewood before trial that his investigation confirmed Kolko's innocence and that the father – Rabbi "S" was the abuser. The consensus of the reports I have gotten after the trial is that he hasn't changed his mind. This view is shared by many other rabbis in Lakewood. It is true that there are some who have changed their minds – but this is only in private. No one is acknowledging publicly that he erred.

It seems that there are at least 3 factions in Lakewood. 1) Kolko is innocent or at least never was a threat to any children. Since he is not a threat he is not a rodef and therefore there was no justification for calling the police. This seems to be the majority. 2) The other view is that Kolko is a child molester and even without a beis din or even a rav – it is clear that the police should have been called. No one of significance has publicly stated this view. 3) Kolko is in fact a child molester and major rabbis paskened that the police should be informed. However this group – in particular the rabbis – not only refuse to publically state that they paskened this way – but they allegedly lie when they are asked.  They are afraid of telling the truth. Publicly this view doesn't exist.

Furthermore the population in Lakewood has 3 different approaches to understanding the conditions for calling the police.

1) A beis din of 3 rabbis is required to hear the claims and testimony of kosher witnesses is required. The purpose of the beis din is to determine halachic guilt or innocence. This approach asserts that without an explicit psak from a beis din – it is prohibited to go to the police. Even if guilt is determined – but if the beis din says that the matter can be handled internally – it is prohibited to call the police. This is the view explicitly stated by Rav Menashe Klein.
2) No beis din is needed since they have neither the power or competence to investigate the matter. However a rav needs to be consulted as to whether there is raglayim ledaver – credible evidence. The rav serves as the gatekeeper – but he is not poskening guilt or innocence. This is the view of the Aguda.
3) There is no reason to consult either a beis din or a rav. It is enough that that there is credible evidence that abuse has occurred. Since we are dealing with rodef – self‑protection – no rabbinical authority is needed. Only normal human judgment and knowledge is required to make the decision of whether to call the police. This is the view of the RCA and Rav Belsky's letter posted to the RCA website.

Unfortunately whether one needs to go to a beis din or not is at this point a moot point in Lakewood. That is because a person with an abuse allegation, no longer has a beis din in Lakewood dealing with these cases. In addition apparently no rav will posken these issues and publicly stand by his views. Anyone who goes to the police after receiving a psak will be labeled a moser. Thus the problem for Lakewood is – there is no longer any acceptable rabbinic mechanism for dealing with these cases. This was also the problem for the Aguda when they announced a few years ago that a rav (not even a beis din) had to be consulted for raglayim ledavar – and then a year later they acknowledged that they had no rabbonim who were willing to be publicly designated to deal with child molesting!

In Lakewood this is allegedly the result of a dispute been Rav Malkiel Kotler and Rav Mattisyahu Solomon. Rav Kotler is allegedly opposed to having a beis din for these matters and Rav Solomon is allegedly for the beis din. I was told by a number of sources that the beis din of Rav Solomon was dissolved after it ordered on alleged perpetrator to quit teaching and he threatened the beis din with a $10, 000, 000 lawsuit. The final nail in the coffin of the beis din was that Rav Kotler publicly sided with the accused. Thus Lakewood has a "catch 22" situation. Everyone acknowledges that child abuse is harmful and therefore halachicly it must be stopped. But there is no longer a mechanism in Lakewood for dealing with the problem so therefore the problem can't be dealt with! The only thing that can be dealt is condemning those people who go to the police without the permission they can't get.

This conflicting confusion in dealing with child abuse – is not limited to Lakewood. It is also clearly present in Rav Belsky. On the one hand he strongly condemned Rabbi "S" as a moser and a molester – and yet publicly published a statement on the RCA website saying that someone with credible evidence should go to the police (without mentioning either a beis din or a rav). In contradiction he is also quoted as saying that "in Lakewood we don't go to the police." However to show that he was serious about calling the police he said in the RCA statement that in one case in Brooklyn he had actually advised going to the police. So Rav Belsky does favor going to the police in certain circumstances - however most cases of molesting apparently don't meet his standards.

In sum, in Lakewood "one does not go to the police" and even though there are major rabbonim who will permit it in certain cases of abuse – they will never acknowledge that they permitted it. Thus no one will go to the  police because they definitely will be destroyed as a moser. In Lakewood abuse is denied or covered up (in the immortal words of Rav Mattisyahu Solomon at an Aguda Conference). Sometimes molesters are asked to go to therapy - without any way of making sure they comply. Sometimes molesters are sent to Israel or other communities. There was even a case of the Lakewood establishment in which the rabbis naively tried curing pedophilia by have the pedophile marry an innocent orphan who didn't realize how she was being betrayed by the rabbis that she had been taught to blindly respect. In addition I have heard allegations that even when Rav Solomon's beis din was functioning and telling molesters to pay for therapy for their victim – that some of these molesters went on to molest other children - because they were allowed to keep teaching. Of course after molesting again, they again went to Rabbi Solomon's beis din – but the police were never called.

36 comments :

  1. We should have awards for brilliant articles. If we did, this piece is a first ballot winner!!

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  2. Gedolim who are being led by thugs are simply not gedolim.gedolim who say one thing in public and another thing in private are not gdolim either. We are a nation without leaders it seems. Nothing new but this story simply confirms it.

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  3. If Rabbonim cannot be convinced that reporting molesters to police is not mesirah then let the people have their say by putting the Rabbi into a virtual cheirem and not go to their shules and not have anything to do with them. Called voting with your feet.

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  4. Yehudah is a melech because he admitted the truth. Lakewood needs to admit their "system" for handling molestation has failed.

    ben dov
    1honestlyfrum.blogspot.com

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  5. Oy Lkwd, heich noflu giboyrimJuly 28, 2013 at 5:54 PM

    The Emperor has no clothes. He has been blamed for get meusse, umarbe mamzerim beYisrael, maachil nevilos utreifos liyemei Pesach veshaar kol yemos hashanah. Nitraf besoroi vegam daatoi, dan dinei - yadayim veraglayim meidim alav shehu nogea bedavar. Poseach al shnei haseifim, if it's messira on koko, then same should apply on HaRAV S., Torah ACHAS yihye lachem, can't have the cake-o and eat it too. Lo yihye lecho Eifoh vaEifo. If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. In chelm there was a Rav that paskened for both sides, du bizt gerecht, und du bizt oich gerecht. The rebitzin having overheard, asked the Rav, how can you manage that both be gerecht, he answers her, Du bizt oich gerecht. In the mean time, children die, parents blood are spilled kamayim hanigorim alei oretz, and act indifferent continuing as if business as usual. No, not at all. This is infanticide. Something is very ROTTEN in DENMARK, and I do not mean Denmark, and smells all the way here. This is a travesty of the highest degree, a chilul hashem of Biblical proportions. Stop orve poraching as if it's the INTERNET. No it is Oh' You, & U and U out there, pun intended.

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  6. Oy Lkwd, heich noflu giboyrim cont.July 28, 2013 at 5:57 PM

    Oy, heich naflo continued

    The blood of a TALMID CHACHAM was spilled mid-day in Town square. This must not go on anymore, the genie is out of the bottle. You have become the laughing stock of all. Klal Yisrael demands an apology, fully, as well as compensation for all the pain caused and financial losses. It is time to RESIGN NOW. Bemakom sheyesh chilul hashem, ein cholkin kavod larav. Decades have proven that you have no knowledge nor experience in dealing in such matters other than throwing in a monkey wrench, stalling, disbanding your alleged yoshvei al modin, and obstructing Justice. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all the people all of the time. Throw in the towel and stop make believe by setting up makeshift kangaroo field courts, only to disband in it's midst. Let Dinei demalchusei dinei deal with it, since they do have the werewithal. Our children's blood will boil like Zecharya haNavi's, till Justice will be served. We the CHILDREN, whether alive or dead, we KLAL YISRAEL demand, RESIGN NOW!

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  7. Oy Lkwd, heich noflu giboyrim cont.July 28, 2013 at 6:06 PM

    Oy, heich naflo continued

    The blood of a TALMID CHACHAM was spilled mid-day in Town square. This must not go on anymore, the genie is out of the bottle. You have become the laughing stock of all. Klal Yisrael demands an apology, fully, as well as compensation for all the pain caused and financial losses. It is time to RESIGN NOW. Bemakom sheyesh chilul hashem, ein cholkin kavod larav. Decades have proven that you have no knowledge nor experience in dealing in such matters other than throwing in a monkey wrench, stalling, disbanding your alleged yoshvei al modin, and obstructing Justice. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all the people all of the time. Throw in the towel and stop make believe by setting up makeshift kangaroo field courts, only to disband in it's midst. Let Dinei demalchusei dinei deal with it, since they do have the werewithal. Our children's blood will boil like Zecharya haNavi's, till Justice will be served. We the CHILDREN, whether alive or dead, we KLAL YISRAEL demand, RESIGN NOW!

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  8. No beis din is needed since they have neither the power or competence to investigate the matter. However a rav needs to be consulted as to whether there is raglayim ledaver – credible evidence. The rav serves as the gatekeeper – but he is not poskening guilt or innocence.

    those who approve of the above, do they insist on a rav, or would consulting any professional who is trained in these matters be sufficient (or even better than speaking with a non-professional rav)?

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  9. I think one place to start is to make a demonstration in front of torah vadath yesiva and also in manhattan in front of the agdath israel office and the ou certification office. I think it will be. Somewhat of a start

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  10. Lakewood ResidentJuly 28, 2013 at 9:29 PM

    Rav Belsky is The Godol Hador, We are all Dust Under his feet

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    1. @ LR

      You have a point. We all do the same erev pesach, declare the chametz dachazitei udlo chazitei, dechamitei udlo chamitei, deviartei udlo viartei, libatel velehevei hefker kearaa demitzrayim. This bitul is so powerful, that never mind mevatel the victim baal din, but also mevatel the mazik birshut harabim, keilu lo haya velo nivra, velo nechshav leklum, veonoichi afar vaeifer. It works the same way like the Undo, on your computer. The only problem with this, if he washes his feet, what happens to the raglayim, and what happens to the baal davar, huh? I would highly suggest to you, move away before it turns into mahapechas Sdom vaamoroh, veir hanidachas usreifo kol artzo.

      Delete
  11. Recipients and PublicityJuly 29, 2013 at 8:55 AM

    Hitler y"sh had a policy and it was not crazy.

    During World War One, when Hitler was a corporal in the German army, he could not understand why Germany collapsed militarily at the end of the war if it was actually in a winning position. Seems that someone gave the order to retreat right before the war ended (Hitler blamed the Jews, the so-called "November [1918] 'criminals'"]) and it ended in a rout as the whole army then scrambled to run back home to Germany and the fronts caved in, especially the Eastern Front where Germany had already extracted a surrender from Russia at Brest-Litovsk. So it was a shock to find out that instead of enjoying a victory over Russia that it had defeated on the battelfield, Germany became the loser, something that Hitler y"sh was determined would never happen again.

    So when World War Two came around and Hitler was in charge, obviously as long as his victories rolled in they were all happy. But the moment Germany started to lose battles and the professional German Army Field Marshals asked for permission to withdraw, Hitler was adamant and never ever gave the green light for anyone to withdraw. The orders he gave were always the same, fight unto death for the glory of the Fatherland and try to go on the offensive even if it was patently impossible and defied all logic reason and facts. This policy was based on Hitler's own experiences from World War One, that once, and if even once, an order is given to withdraw, it is a de facto admission of defeat and failure and it can and will lead to and induce a rout and collapse of the whole front.

    That is how Hitler kept the war going from 1943 to 1945 when it was obvious that Germany was going to lose, but Hitler knew that as long as he kept his men in the field defending every inch they had conquered and stood their ground that one thing was for sure, there would be no rout as happened in World War One, morale would remain good, and there was always a chance to launch counter-attacks, which he did, like the Battle of the Bulge and the use of V-1 and V-2 rockets against the British, developing the world's first jet fighters, and getting close to getting nuclear arms. Hitler would fire generals even at the most dire moments for his army and put in ones with a fighting spirit who could ward of defeat for as long as possible.

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    Replies
    1. what in the world does this have to do with anything??????

      Delete
    2. Ben Waxman,if you did not understand this brilliant and beautiful MASHAL and NIMSHAL by Recipiant,then you should not be commenting on these blogs they are way above your head.
      ok Ben'let me spell it out for you,what Recipient is telling us,is that just like Hitler with his criminally insane ego maniac stubbornness could not bring himself to admit his mistakes and let the generals do what is necessary to avoid the complete destruction of Germany,so too our so called chareidi leaders and ra-bbonim,their ego and stubbornness will not let them admit their tragic mistakes of the last 60 years in covering up and protecting thousands and thousands of evil molesters who have destroyed physically and mentally
      tens of thousands of YIDISHE NESHAMOS,And unfortunately the same thing that happened with Germany,the same might happen with YIDISHKEIT,completely destroyed from within by it's own leaders

      Delete
    3. Ben Waxman,if you did not understand this brilliant and beautiful MASHAL and NIMSHAL by Recipiant,then you should not be commenting on these blogs they are way above your head.
      ok Ben'let me spell it out for you,what Recipient is telling us,is that just like Hitler with his criminally insane ego maniac stubbornness could not bring himself to admit his mistakes and let the generals do what is necessary to avoid the complete destruction of Germany,so too our so called chareidi leaders and ra-bbonim,their ego and stubbornness will not let them admit their tragic mistakes of the last 60 years in covering up and protecting thousands and thousands of evil molesters who have destroyed physically and mentally
      tens of thousands of YIDISHE NESHAMOS,And unfortunately the same thing that happened with Germany,the same might happen with YIDISHKEIT,completely destroyed from within by it's own leaders

      Delete
    4. sillier and sillier.

      don't think that i am in any way trying to defend the indefensible.

      Delete
  12. This nonsense is alive and well all over. Kramer was sentenced in Melbourne Australia last week. This sentencing, together with a last minute very moving victim impact statement, has prompted other victims of Kramer to now belatedly come forward. Problem is, a major victim that I know about has decided that he has to first...ask a Rabbi. But wait, the head Rabbi was one of those who sent Kramer away to Israel when he was found out then, instead of calling the police, or letting anyone else call them.

    In my opinion, even many of those Rabbis who now lips-synch the message "go to the police" are really not serious, and the understanding of many in their communities is that while the public message is "go to the police", the desired course of action is to go to the Rabbi, who often has a different agenda altogether, eg Kolko/Lakewood/Belsky/OU/RCA etc.

    Sick.

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  13. It has to do with everything. The principle was not to retreat at all cost. That is the nimshal here, just stick to your guns, no police, no matter what the cost of your children's lives. There is a book out there about a M.T. and you might see the connection.

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    Replies
    1. mashgiach of the chazir fleischJuly 29, 2013 at 3:55 PM

      @ mr. beez wax

      It is much rather a G-d given law called Lo Tirtsach. And Hashem said unto Kayin... what did you do? "Kol dmei ochicho tsoakim elay min haadama. The difference between the two is, that this discussion will never end, until this bloody murder will stop. These lies and contradictions, bluffing self serving cover ups has become a mockery. Any child now knows that they are free for all, expendable, fair game with the gushpanka / stempel of the Baal Hamachshir, kosher kosher, bassor bossor, limehadrin min hamehadrin, and o' yeah, have we mentioned godol hador. Have you no shame? Have you no decency?

      StevenJuly 28, 2013 at 5:30 PM has put it well. Boycott their products, no contributions to their affiliations, remember your influence counts, use it. If the buck stops here, they have no power, and the leaves will dry out. Remember, our children are so much more important than their kovod or the money they are chasing after. Do not give them any support, then we will see who has the deiah, and who has the meiah. Cherem tsorchanim talks.It is much rather a G-d given law called Lo Tirtsach. And Hashem said unto Kayin... what did you do? "Kol dmei ochicho tsoakim elay min haadama. The difference between the two is, that this discussion will never end, until this bloody murder will stop. These lies and contradictions, bluffing self serving cover ups has become a mockery. Any child now knows that they are free for all, expendable, fair game with the gushpanka / stempel of the Baal Hamachshir, kosher kosher, bassor bossor, limehadrin min hamehadrin, and o' yeah, have we mentioned godol hador. Have you no shame? Have you no decency?

      StevenJuly 28, 2013 at 5:30 PM has put it well. Boycott their products, no contributions to their affiliations, remember your influence counts, use it. If the buck stops here, they have no power, and the leaves will dry out. Remember, our children are so much more important than their kovod or the money they are chasing after. Do not give them any support, then we will see who has the deiah, and who has the meiah. Cherem tsorchanim talks.

      Delete
  14. Arrogance as Thick as a Brick. Fakewood's M.O. is to Brush all issues our brilliant leaders can't or won't deal under the RUG. There is NO more room under this rug!!! Fakewood's leaders feel a Blatt of Gemorrah can fix anything. Major Drug abuse, Sex Abuse , Wife abuse, Many Mental Health issues( there are therapists on every corner Now in Fakewood,where there were none just a few years ago)Prozac... is part of the Daily Diet in Fakewood. That blaat of Gemorah is Not the Cure-all. Aron,you need to rethink,reboot,you're Business plan for BMG and the good folks of Fakewood. Bigger is not better. The Quality of life in Fakewood is in a Rapid Decline. Think of the CHILDREN and not the IMAGE!!! "A million miles wide and yet only one inch deep"

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  15. Numbness, Indifference,simply COLD. The Fakewood way,towards our children. Kinda like they are disposable for the greater good and Image of the Community. Very little has been said by our "wise"leaders to the victim(s) to comfort them and help them HEAL! Instead they(in their Great wisdom) continue to TORTURE the Victim(s)and praise the very SICK rapists in our town. Great Gemorrah Logic!BIG Yeshiva with even BIGGER problems that are ignored year after year. You want to contol and Censor us! To the Vaad of the LIMP and Lame Rabbonim. DEAL WITH IT!! Every day the BAR of FRUMKEIT is raised another notch in Fakewood with new stringencies that VERY few can and do adhere too. GAIIVAH GAIIVAH GAIIVAH, nuff said

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  16. An alleged Orthodox JewJuly 29, 2013 at 11:52 PM

    I find it amazing that you wrote an article yesterday regarding Lakewood/Rosh Yeshivahs/molestation.

    What surprised me is that in the write-up you used the word 'alleged' on 7 different occasions. How could an honest journalist make comments or criticize others when the word 'alleged' is used repeatedly?

    I'm certain you are aware that the reason you are writing 'alleged' is to protect the writer from potential liable suits. At the very same time, the writer is unprepared to stand up against potential libelous statements. Perhaps a person who considers himself 'daas torah' should not engage in that type of journalism if in fact it's considered journalism.

    I recognize how serious molestation is and it should be dealt with within the framework of halacha. Although your initial quote from R' Sternbuch regarding molestation was incorrect, you may want to check with him (since you consider him your Rebbe) if quoting comments from 'alleged' sources regarding Lakewood, Rosh Yeshivahs and Batei Dinim doesn't border lashon horah.

    I write to you since you may be an 'alleged' talmid chochom.

    Sincerely,

    An 'alleged' Orthodox Jew

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    Replies
    1. Allegedly coherentAugust 4, 2013 at 11:26 AM

      Let me guess, you never had much English or secular education, huh? You must not realize that your comment was incoherent. But let me tell you, it sure was. Babbling like this accomplishes nothing except making you look like a fool. Luckily for you, you posted anonymously.

      Delete
  17. @AaOJ

    Dear 'alleged' Orthodox Jew,

    Since you consider molestation very serious and it should be dealt within the framework of halacha, how have these alleged Batei Dinim, alleged Rosh Yeshivas, dealt with such up to now? What have they done to protect the public at large, especially children from full fledged shfichat damim of the rodef? Lashon hora is issurei, and Rodef is skante, klum ma asiso, uma asisem shelo tishtapach damam shel yaldei Yisrael? The victims are real, the retzicha is real, and NOTHING HAS BEEN CHANGED! Please explain that in all these decades, Lakewood, Batei Dnim, and Roshei yeshivos alleged geonei eretz, alleged geonei tevel couldn't come up with ANYTHING AT ALL, other than to motzi shem ra on the victims? At best, turning loose shuolim shuolim mazikim mechablim bakromim. They have actually sent these RODFIM to greener pastures, where they continued their asher korcho baderech vayzanev becha nechsholim umichsholim to the unsuspected, Hayitachen? How does that differ from opening the barn of a shor hamued a raging bull lirshus harabim? Haloy Bedinei nefhoshos onu askinan. It is not alleged, but these mazikim have a track record of Rodef achar hazachar, veachar hadomim, veachar hanefoshos, veachar Tinoikes shel beis rabon, veod yadam netuyah.
    Rav Shternbuch vesiyato, not ALLEGEDLY, but clearly said these are Rodfim and to call the Mishtara at once. And yes, Dina demalchusse dina IS within the framework of halacha, and they can, and do, and have done, more than something about it, let alone these so called allegeds. Therefore, calling your self an 'alleged' Orthodox and an 'alleged' Jew, hodo'os baal din kemea edim damya. Yasher kochacha, yofo dibarta venoeh darashto. Avinu malkenu, chamol al ollelenu vetapeinu.

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  18. Good morning to the holy residents of Lakewood and all your Innocent children. Realize that our brilliant leaders don't Care for the well being of your children. They shelter,protect,and ENABLE child RAPISTS in our once safe town.These very sick RAPISTS could be living next door to you! Maybe what Fakewood's ALLEDGED leaders need is a MEGA LAWSUIT (500,000,000 for a start) as a wake up call that there Distorted version of HALACHA is destroying young Jewish souls. The buck stops at the 2'nd floor in BMG. Wake up and do the right thing for the CHILDREN. STOP the cover up and untold DAMAGE to our CHILDREN!!!

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  19. Regardless of location or personalities, if complainants are barred from going to secular courts but have no qualified, honest, empowered beis din to go to, an area could R"L become a playground for molesters and a hell for families.

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  20. "Sometimes molesters are asked to go to therapy - without any way of making sure they comply."

    would you have a problem if molesters are told (1)to go to therapy to avoid a police complaint. (2) The rabbis keep contact with the therapist to ensure compliance (3) he is removed from any chinuch position

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  21. @ G

    Has Therapy quenched any child molester? What does therapy do in terms of retribution? Chinuch is not the exlusive access to children. Lock him up and throw away the key. That will keep our children safe.

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  22. raging bulls.

    has alcoholic anonymous ever cures an alcoholic. no. but they have helped many alcoholics stop their destructive behaviour, given up alcohol and gone on to lead a normal life

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  23. raging bulls. if we Lock him up and throw away the key, it would keep the children safe. the question is in a society that does not do that, but sends him away for a few years. children would be safer if we coerced the abuser to go to therapy where he would learn to stop his abuse, rather than sending him to jail for a few years where he becomes an even bigger abuser when he gets out and more innocent children to suffer. It is more important to keep our children safe than feel satisfied that we have retributed

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  24. In many cases, neither the jail nor the therapy would make the molester go straight in the long run. Jail, at least, keeps him out of circulation for a time, we hope a long time.

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  25. @ Gershon,

    AA, I am all for it. There are different levels of substance abuse, and various addictions. Some are curable, some managable, some under control. Paedophiles are beyond all of the above, just like a Sorrer Umore's addiction, the Torah acknowledges it is beyond control, venidon al shem sofo, and Paedophiles already have served notice on society, lo kol shekein. If they should let them go after a few years, they go right back at it, therefore, it is necessary to throw away the key. Remember, it must be Weberman proof.

    As far as retribution, it always states velo "yezidun od", that is two for the price of one.
    For all those allegedly concerned about loshon hora, Pikuach nefesh doche harbeh Shkorim.

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  26. Velo yezidun od

    'Paedophiles are beyond all of the above, just like a Sorrer Umore's addiction, the Torah acknowledges it is beyond control, venidon al shem sofo, and Paedophiles already have served notice on society, lo kol shekein'
    ........................

    I wonder why then why does the torah does not apply venidon al shem sofo to Paedophiles.perhaps HE knows something that you do not

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  27. Velo yezidun odVelo yezidun odAugust 4, 2013 at 5:35 AM

    Gershon,

    perhaps "HE" knows something that you do not

    HE WHO, HUH?

    BTW, not all paedophiles are like LEVI ARON. However, throwing away the key will prevent a reapeat. Sorrer umoreh sofo, is to murder for money to support his habit. VeDa'l.

    ReplyDelete

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