The following was posted today by Dov Lipman on his Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/dov.lipman See Kikar Shabbat concerning reaction to his comment. One obvious question is why he hasn't volunteered to sweep the streets yet? He did offer clarification which didn't help. If he simply wanted to suggest that people who have extra time on their hands should do chesed - he didn't have to refer to yeshiva students. Also please explain why he suggested that student volunteers do jobs for those who are paid to do the work. In short - his message was a classic example of misspeaking. This is especially misfortunate for a politician and one who is trying to convince chareidi world that he is not out "to get them"
His explanation of his words simply made no sense
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By Dov Lipman
רציתי לשתף אתכם במחשבה שעברה לי הבוקר בזמן ריצה ברחובות בית שמש. ראיתי 3 מטאטאי רחוב - כולם בני 70 ולמעלה. חשבתי לעצמי - למה בחורי ישיבה מתוך עזרה לזולת לא יכולים בחודש חופש שלהם בניסן (בין הזמנים) לעזור להם בהתנדבות כדי לתת לקשישים הללו מעט חופש, או לפחות להקל עליהם מעט? סתם מחשבה...
I want to share a thought I had this morning as a I jogged through the streets of Bet Shemesh. I saw 2 street cleaners working - all over the age of 70. Why aren't yeshiva students, who are on their month long vacation during Nissan, volunteering to provide these older men with some vacation or to at least make their jobs a bit easier? Just a thought
I want to share a thought I had this morning as a I jogged through the streets of Bet Shemesh. I saw 2 street cleaners working - all over the age of 70. Why aren't yeshiva students, who are on their month long vacation during Nissan, volunteering to provide these older men with some vacation or to at least make their jobs a bit easier? Just a thought
According to a later comment by Dov he did actually help to stop:
ReplyDeleteI am very happy to see that a serious discussion about this idea has emerged, even if you disagree. Regarding those who asked about MK's doing this during the long Knesset recess, I can only speak for myself - I am at work every day even during the recess and I have begun exploring ways to volunteer even when not on recess. To those who were concerned about these seniors losing money, I would never consider anything which would mean less pay for them. To those who thought I was attacking Haredim, I did not think for a second about just Haredim and was thinking about yeshiva boys from all backgrounds. To those who asked why yeshiva boys and not others, I feel that all yeshiva boys should be doing chesed in an official manner and vacation time is a perfect time for that. To those who asked why I did not stop to help, I actually did but did not think it was right to include that in the post. Finally, I was not criticizing anyone at all but sharing a thought and idea I had to elicit feedback and I have learned a lot from the feedback.
What a fool! I am really getting sick of this guy and it is a shame because there is much in what he believes that I agree with... My issue with him is regardless of what position you have regarding Toroaso U'mnaso or not, you need to have "Kavod HaTorah". His, is certainly lacking! I have a suggestion for Lipman since he is so concerned with the 70 year old street sweepers.. stop jogging so much and sweep a little!סתם מחשבה...
ReplyDeleteR. Eidensohn, I think that you owe R. Lipman an apology.
ReplyDeleteno - if he simply wanted to suggest that people who have extra time on their hands should do chesed - he didn't have to refer to yeshiva students. Also please explain why he suggested that student volunteers do jobs for those who are paid to do the work.
DeleteIn short - his message was a classic example of misspeaking. This is especially misfortunate for a politician and one who is trying to convince chareidi world that he is not out "to get them"
His explanation of his words simply made no sense
your position sounds very defensive and hostile.
DeleteI would say the same about your comment
Delete@Just Sayin-The rabbi does not owe Lipman an apology.
DeleteThis post bothered me a lot less than his radio interview yesterday, where he stated that the Torah does not mandate a dress code for women, only that men must look away.
ReplyDeleteI am most concerned with what he stated in an interview with Makor Rishon right after the election. When asked about Land for Peace, he candidly said though it will be tough he would give land away. Frightening.
ReplyDeleteThat is why he fits in with Lapid's party. Land for peace has always been Lapid's goal. For example when he said "We had to teach you a lesson" after the expulsion of Gush Katif. He's wearing a kippa.. so what? Many people wear kippas.
DeleteWhy doesn't Lipman offer to help a public school teacher get some rest by standing in and teaching a class for her in his spare time. Why doesn't he give a bus driver a rest by driving his bus for him. Does that many any sense? Not all thoughts and ideas should be shared - especially those which make no sense.
ReplyDeleteDov Lipman is a proud talmid of the late R Yaakov Weinberg who should be blamed for creating this "frankenstein" as anyone familiar with R Yaakov's way of thinking, he was liberal and encouraged this type of self-hating "Moderdoxy".
ReplyDeleteOne wonders why Meir Kahane Z"L, HY"D, and his Kach party were banned from the Knesset on the orders of the original arch-nationalist and former LECHI leader PM Yitschak Shamir of all people, maybe it's time to consider banning the likes of Dov Lipman as well. Just a thought. סתם מחשבה
And a most excellent thought indeed!
DeleteHe may have sat in Rav Weinberg's shiur, and he may invoke his name, but he is am ho'oretz. The Chazon Ish also had a talmid he wouldn't be proud of. So did Rabbi Yosi HaGlili. Rav Weinberg has many talmidim who do him credit. Lipman is not typical.
ReplyDeleteI think everyone is reading too much into what Rabbi Lipman said. He said what he meant, that rather than doing nothing on vacation, yeshiva bochurim could volunteer and do chesed. Nothing wrong with that.
ReplyDelete"I think everyone is reading too much into what Rabbi Lipman said. He said what he meant, that rather than doing nothing on vacation, yeshiva bochurim could volunteer and do chesed. Nothing wrong with that."
DeleteBetalel, there is something VERY wrong with that. I don;t see him telling Doctors to do "Chesed" while on vacation. I don't see him telling MK's to do "Chesed" while on vacation, or for that matter college kids... He says it only to B'nai Yeshiva... do you know why? Because in his mind the B'nai Yeshiva do nothing while NOT on vacation. That is the problem with Lipman and his ilk. You want to change the system? Well so do I... but you need to do it with a "Hakara" of what B'nai Yeshiva are and what they do, not with the hostility and defamation that he applied to them. Doing nothing may characterize his days in Ner Israel (and from what I see of him, I am not surprised) but they don't characterize the vast majority of B'nai Torah.
Didn't the Alter of Kelm require specifically the Bnei Yeshiva to sweep the Beis Medrash (as opposed to hired janitors)? Is R' Lipman's suggestion so different so as to deserve such vehement responses, even going so far as to insult his Rosh Yeshiva zatsal?
ReplyDeleteThese responses tell us more about their authors' dislike/ hate for R' Lipman and/ or his ideas, than they do about the suggestion itself. Andy
The Alter of Kelm wanted his bochurim to sweep the yeshiva rather than a hired janitor. That makes sense. He was in charge of his yeshiva and part of his job is to teach his students responsibility. Not comment about it on a blog or share thoughts with the entire world asking why his students don't do this or don't do that. He gave them a job to do, with the authority to give them a job to do, as their teacher.
DeleteDid the Alter of Kelm also want his bochurim to go out and sweep the streets in order to give hired street sweepers (not hired by him or his yeshiva) "a rest?" No, I highly doubt that... Because it makes no sense. And would he share thoughts to the world asking why his bochurim don't relieve the street sweepers of their duties? Again...
Rap and Gordon, your assailing of Dov in the terms that you use is not a kiddush Hashem. I cannot tell whether you are more interested in persuading people or venting your own spleen. (Although, Gordon, I admire the fact that you are willing to use your name. It's all too easy to call people names while bravely hiding behind the mask of anonymity.)
ReplyDeleteI learned at Ner Israel at the same time as Dov. Those who know anything about Ner Israel know that Rav Weinberg elected not to be a day-to-day presence to the talmidim of the yeshiva, at least at that point in time. He was accessible to those who wanted to talk to him, gave shiurei klali and various chaburos. He did not give a regular shiur and few people aside from yechidim could really describe themselves as his "talmidim". Figuring out Rav Weinberg's way of thinking on issues was no easy task. That is my opinion, but I was there. I understand that Rav Aharon Feldman is a much more common day-to-day presence.
I clearly remember Rav Weinberg saying that the sina in Eretz Yisroel would be lifted if, just as an example, the chareidi-types in the Rabbanut would be more courteous to chiloni women who were going to the mikvah before getting married. Being polite and thanking them for their cooperation, etc.
Are you seeing the irony yet?