Wednesday, June 27, 2012

ORA rally against Weiss - Chareidi attendees?

Assuming the following report of last Sunday's rally is true - this seems to represents a major change in the debate of Get Me'usa and what is permitted by Rabbeinu Tam's harchakos. It is the first time of claims of support for ORA's from the yeshiva world. As I have noted before - there is no statement of Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky, Rav Yisroel Belsky or Rav Aryeh Ralbag supporting public demonstrations or ORA. ORA's list of supporters does not include a single chareidi rav.
It also remains to be clarified whether this is a simple case of ma'os alei like the Friedman-Epstein case or whether it is one of those cases where force is in fact permitted by everyone?
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You Cant Handle The Truth has left a new comment on your post "Rav Gestetner: Bitul Seruv or Nidui?":

Emes, that's a great answer to my challenge. But regardless, I was told that The Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva were asked by the family not to attend so as not to overshadow the purpose of the rally. Rabbi Kotler's mother attended as did his brothers in law, Rabbi Krupenia, the rosh kollel of lakewood & Rabbi Reich. As for Rabbi Schustal, his oldest son, a Shoel Umashiv in BMG, was the one who led the tehillim, and another son was more or less directing the rally. So if that's all the egg I have on my face, I'm cool.

Now how about you stop distracting from the issues we are discussing and answer a single challenge put before you?

33 comments:

  1. That comment is a boldfaced lie. Rav Kotler's mother and Rav Krupenia were NOT in attendance. It was not supported by the Chareidi Rabbonim either. It was a Kipa Sruga rally from beginning to end.

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    1. Dovid were you there? If so please describe what happened.

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    2. you cant handle the truth, you look like a fool. You made a challenge before the rally and you were dead wrong ,they were a no show.

      Then all you go around posting on post after post that "you were told". Who were you told by? were you at the rally? No you weren't. Who came to the rally? The YU ora nut jobs and the family of the dodelsons, close friends and maybe a rabbi or two that is in their back pocket or were not aware that Jeremy Stern is a koifer.

      Fact is nowhere in those letters did they say to support ORA. Keep trying to fool everyone with your narishkeit that the Rabbanim support Jeremy Stern the koifer!

      Let say that Even if the dodelson's were 100% right getting ora involved shows that they are out for revenge. The protests are just propaganda. Do you really think a person will give up his child because a bunch or morons are yelling outside his window? The point of the protests are only to damage him and his family because stupid mobs will not change his mind. Getting apikorsim like Jeremy Stern involved to settle a divorce will only cause doubt as to the validity of the get when she eventually gets it. In addition the psycological trauma that she is putting her kids through.

      Look at the epstein case she is nebech so disillusioned, she is wasting away her life being swept up in the moment of being the poster girl for ora by using her child as a tool against her husband. What will be of that child when she grows up? What will be when ms epstein realizes that she wasted her child bearing years and was used by Jeremy Stern? I hope the dodelsons and their supporters realize they are headed down a slippery slope. Take care of your personal issues in private if you really care about your child/grandchildren. Don't be conned by Jeremy Stern, he is already ruining ms epstein life and caused irreversible damage to her daughter. He claimed three years ago that they were close to settling it. Its now three years later and if anything they are further than ever. Ora has only made her situation worse. For those supporters of ms dodelson if you really care about her let her know hat she just stepped into.

      How befitting that the rally was the shabbos after Parshas korach was read. The people who caused tzarr to reb reuvein should tread very carefully. Take a lesson from last weeks parsha because korachs mutiny did not end well.

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    3. My son was there. It had many yeshiva people.

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    4. You Can't Handle The TruthJune 27, 2012 at 3:28 PM

      Why are you distracting from the issue? I was wrong that R Dovid and R Malkiel didn't come, but I spoke to R Dovids sons' there and R Krupenia and they both told me why. You want to keep coming back to the fact that they didn't attend as great proof of....... what exactly? Ask them why they didn't come and they will tell you.

      And saying tehillim outside someone's house is hardly an ORA rally in the Friedman/epstein tradition. Nobody yelled, we just said Tehillim for a half hour or so, how is that being mevazeh anyone?

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    5. sam you have a really hard time comprehending the people that were yeshivish were relatives and close friends of the dodelsohns and a couple of people who were bored!

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    6. the point is you teamed up with a sheretz lie ORA it takes away all validity to your claims. First you try to mislead everyone by insinuating that they are coming to the rally. They are a no show, so then you decide to attack me. You make claims in previous posts about information that was told to you, be specific instead of vague. Enlighten our readers! Please let us know if R' Kotler is related to the dodelsons or how much are their annual contributions are to lakewood yeshiva? How much were the roshei yeshiva told about how ora operates? The letter never stated to team up with Ora. Till they speak publicly about their support to ora, your claims are worthless. Stop trying to make yourself as white as snow.
      If you really care about gital you would read my post above and think about it. Ora will ruin her life as they have to ms epstein and others like her. The only person who gains from this is Jeremy Stern he will be a very rich man. But you are obviously bent on revenge. So you will ignore that fact.

      As for being mevazeh, Printing up flyers wth the guys picture and having a mob of people in front of his house is being mivazeh. aligning yourself with a koifer like Jeremy stern is an all time low. If this was supposed to be so koidesh with tehillim why did they need to get Jeremy stern involved why couldnt they put up a sign in yeshivah and tell people to come say tehillim. You can stick your pigs foot out and say but "we all said Tehillim." Korach's crew also came with their pots to moshe and look what happened to them.

      Why dont you post your address and send in pictures of your kids so there could be posters printed up and a tehillim vigil in front of your house. See how much you like it.

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  2. Pretty amazing that Schachter doesn't clean up YU. After all it has a homosexual society which is completely K'neged halochoh. Why doesn't clean his house first?

    They have that society because otherwise they would lose much govt. funding. They sell themselves for $$$ and then get involved in stuff not their business

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    1. what a chillul hashem when at the same time two southern baptists universities turned down the gov't funds and stuck to their principles!

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  3. You Can't Handle The TruthJune 27, 2012 at 2:57 PM

    Reb Daniel, I was at the Rally. I came on the bus, & I saw them there. Rabbi Krupenia started off up against the white fence surrounding the Weiss property, (Yes, the one that had No Trespassing signs posted) and later moved to the right, standing up against the non-jewish neighbors brick wall surrounding his property. Anyone who has a phone and a phonebook can call them and confirm. Lying about this is silly, as is debating a simple verifiable fact.

    It should go a long way to establishing the credibility of the Weiss allies that they are even lying about this.

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    1. I just called him. He didn't even know about the rally!

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    2. You Can't Handle The TruthJune 27, 2012 at 3:53 PM

      Funny, because he's in Beis Aharon now as it is in middle of second seder in BMG. Why do you insist on lying? do you think Reb daniel's readers are so dumb to fall for an anon who is to lazy to think up a posting name but will call Rav Krupenia to ask about the rally? Anyone who calls on their own will hear the truth, not the lies of the Weiss allies.

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    3. He is home right now. Call his house Mr. Anon Can't Handle.

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    4. really are you in the beis medrash now to verify? because if you are you are violating the kol korei of no smart phones or internet in the beis medrash.

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  4. The epstein case isn't just about Maus Alei and you shouldn't claim so until R Stein or someone else from their side tells you so. R S Kamenetsky and the other Dayonim didn't sign a paper telling her to do anything she could to get a get just for a case of Maus Alei .

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    1. Sorry avf - not a single person has made any claim beyond maus alei - except for those who claim that the husband was being abusive because he didn't give a get when it was demanded.

      There was also some false claims about Aharaon being a bad father - which were rejected by the court.

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    2. Avf you are right , they did it because of their relationship to the Epstein family.

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    3. avf coming back again with your lies? Didn't have enough the last time around when your falsehoods were uncovered? some people really like to show how smart they really are. In your case it would probably be better to stop while your ahead. Keep taking plays from Jeremy Sterns book of plays. The people on this bog are not brainwashed YU zombies

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    4. AVF is entirely correct. I keep saying this. Neither of the Eidensohns knows exactly what Tamar alleged and what she told the BD. The absence of evidence is not evidence of its absence.

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    5. Simple question - do you know that there were other claims? Do these claims assert that it is more than ma'us alei? In other words are you just playing rhetorical games?

      My informants says it was a case of ma'us alei

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    6. James and avf, court documents showed that tamar originally had nothing but praise for aharon on his parenting. So either she is a perjurer or you are liars. Get it through your thick heads its public knowledge.

      Daas Torah, thank you for permitting avf and James to keep posting their blatant lies. Court documents refute their accusations and only go to show the vicious smear campaign of ORA and the epsteins have been conducting against Aharon Friedman. Foolish people like avf and james have helped her waste years of her life for nothing. People who lie consistently start to believe their lies are true.

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  5. The Kotlers are cousins to the Dodelsons. Mrs. Dodelson's father, R' Volpo, arranged the Hetter Meiah for R' Malkiel, who was married to a Feinstein.

    So now the Kotler's are paying back, prostituting themselves to partner with ORA.

    The other signatories catagorically stated that they never allowed, and did not support, any protest or rally.

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    1. You Cant Handle The TruthJune 28, 2012 at 3:37 PM

      "The other signatories catagorically stated"

      Who? Someone I know called R Shlomo Miller and he said that he advised the Dodelsons to use ORA because in his words, "You use the most experienced shoemaker to fix shoes."

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    2. You cant handle the truth, again with the "someone you know". maybe it was the same someone you know that told you to mislead everyone that R' Kotler and R' shustal would be at the rally.

      The questions I posed to you in our last correspondence before you never answered. Are these allegations true that the dodelson family is related to the R' kotler and R' shustal? How much money have the dodelsons donated to the yeshiva? How much were the roshei yeshiva told of how ORA operates? Why didnt they say publicly that they fully support ORA or even partially?

      If R' miller supposedly said that statement about the shoemaker. We can't understand why the signators couldnt put up in a sign in their yeshivahs to go say tehillim. YOu claimed the rally was a peaceful tehillim rally. Why do they need a koifer like JEremy Stern to organize the tehillim? Or are you hinting that the r' miller is upporting the tactics of ora by abuising children like they have done in the epstein case?

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    3. I just called Rav Miller shlita. He knew nothing of the rally. I asked him about ORA, generally. He denounced them completely and said anything they are involved with is treif.

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  6. Rav Reuven Feinstein shlita called rav shmuel kamenetzky a few days ago after they published a letter against avrahem weiss with Rav Shmuels signiture Rav Reuven shlita asked Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky if he kwows the details of the case to which Rav Shmuel shlita replied that he does not he put his signiture on the letter because Rav Malkiel Kotler asked him to and he was relying on Rav Malkiels knowledge of the case whereupon Rav Reuven went over with Rav Shmuel all the details of the case since than Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky has been calling Avrohom Weiss every day to apologize to him and ask him Mechila

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    1. "Raised Eyebrows"June 29, 2012 at 12:15 PM

      that sounds quite factual

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  7. Lakewood is known to be a very Liberal town when it comes to womans rights even more so than yeshiva university any woman in Lakewood Can call the polica and have her Husband Arrested or get a Restraining order against him anytime with the full support of the Rabbonim Roshei Yeshiva and Botei Dinim in Town Rav Malkiel Kotlers Uncle Gavriel Finkel who heads Vaad Hadayonim is Notorious for issuing Heter Arkous to any woman who asks for one there was the recent case of Dr Moshe and Nina Kaweblum in Lakewood (A well known orthopedist)where Rabbi Finkel gave her an open letter (which was publicized all over Lakewood) allowing her to go to secular court allthough he never issued a Hazmana or spoke to the Husband to hear his side of the story and even though Rabbi Abraham from monsey issued a Siruv against Mrs Nina Kaweblum for refusing to go to Bais Din

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    1. You Cant Handle The TruthJuly 9, 2012 at 8:12 PM

      You mean sort of exactly like the alleged Heter Arkoyos Weiss claims to have gotten???

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  8. R Gavriel Finkels sister is married to Rav Zev Tikotzky. Rav Zev Tikotzky Daughter is married to Rav Malkiel Kotler That would Make R Finkel an uncle to R Maliel Kotler

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  9. Rav Malkiel Kotler did the same thing with Rav Yisroel Arye Knopfler Shlita. Rabbi Knopfler is a Massive Talmid Chochum who spent many years in Eretz Yisroel Learning and getting Shimush under Rav Sariel Rosenberg who is a son-in-law of Rav Nissim Karelitz Shlita and heads the Bais Din In Bnei Brak. Rabbi Knopfler came to Lakewood and opened a Bais Din Called Bais Din Badatz Rav Malkiel and his Uncle Gavriel Finkel considered him a Big Threat To their Positions in Lakewood that he was a new comer and did not feel beholden to anyone regardlessof power or money they went around to every Rov and Dayan In Lakewood forcing them to sign A letter that Rav Knopflers Bais Din Is not Valid 30 Rabbonim Caved in and signed the letter many did not

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  10. Read the letter that Rabbi Abraham of Khal Kedushas Levi in Monsey NY wrote about Gavriel Finkel in the Dr Moshe and Nina Kaweblum case Rabbi Abraham accuses Gavriel Finkel of taking a Bribe

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  11. The Kotlers, Bmg, and The Lakewood Vaad, (Headed By BMG CEO Aaron Kotler) are Now Working overtime in Getting Toms River Police Chief Micheal G. Mastronardy Elected as Ocean County Sherrif so That He can Help Them on The Dodelson/Weiss Case. In a Recent Lakewood Shopper interview (which is owned by Yisroel Bursztyn who Heads The Lakewood Shomrim/LCSW) Mastronardy Stated That He Feels Orthodox Jewish Woman are "Repressed" in The Jewish Comunity

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