Thursday, February 16, 2012

Rav M. Feinstein: For Moshe seeing not more real than hearing - Contradiction?

Igros Moshe(Y.D. 1:223): You bring from Sefer HaIkkarim (4:15) that the reason that Moshe did  not break the Tablets immediately when G‑d told him that the Jews had made the Golden Calf was because seeing is more powerfully real than knowledge. In my humble opinion, G‑d forbid to say that when Moshe heard about the Golden Calf that it was less significant to him than when he saw it himself - even in terms of emotional response. A possible explanation of why he broke the Tablets only after seeing the Golden Calf, because G‑d did not tell him about their enthusiastic dancing and therefore he thought it would be enough if they saw him - to completely repent immediately. However when he saw their enthusiastic dancing he realized that they would not so readily repent and therefore he broke the Tablets. You can also say that that he waited to break them so that the Jewish people could see him break the Tablets and realize the great loss they had caused because of the sin of the Golden Calf. This is stated explicitly in Devorim (9:14), “I broke the Tablets before their eyes.” This implies that he deliberately did it before their eyes. In addition it says later more explicitly in Devarim (34:12), “Before the eyes of all Israel.” Rashi explains this verse to mean that he intended to break the Tablets before their eyes. If so he had don possibility of breaking it when he first heard from G‑d about the Calf before he descended from  the mountain. He was thus forced to wait until he descended so they could all see that he was breaking the Tablets. In contrast regarding hearing something from another person it is definitely true that seeing is more powerful in eliciting emotions and there is no need to bring a proof to something so obvious.

Igros Moshe(O.C. 3:50): I replied to you many years ago and my reply was printed in my Igros Moshe (1:223) that G‑d forbid to say about Moshe that what he saw with his own eyes was much more real than what he heard from G‑d and that is the reason that he only broke the Tablets after he saw the Golden Calf with his own eyes. Now you write to me that the Akeidas Yitzchok also shares the view of the Sefer HaIkkarim. I in fact looked into the Sefer HaIkkarim and I saw that in fact he agrees with my view that there is no difference between hearing information from G‑d to seeing it oneself. He brings a medrash that the reason that Moshe didn’t break the Tablets previously was in order to inform the Jews that it is prohibited to act on knowledge – even absolutely certain knowledge until it is directly witnessed… The Akeidas Yitzchok himself wanted to say that Moshe wanted to break the Tablets in front of the Jews in order to magnify the message to increase their discomfort at sinning. This is a strong reason and I my explanation anticipates this as I wrote previously.

In contrast in Darash Moshe (Yisro):  

9 comments :

  1. FINALLLY! PROOF OF R' MORDECHAI TENTDLER'S PRESENCE!

    But, seriously, this seems a pretty straight up contradiction, though I'm going to take a look at the Igros's inside.

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  2. I don't see any contradiction. Rav Moshe says that Moshe's emotional response would not have increased through seeing the golden calf.Rav Moshe obviously knew the rule that hearing is not the same as seeing, but felt that Moshe was above this rule.
    Avraham

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  3. "I don't see any contradiction. Rav Moshe says that Moshe's emotional response would not have increased through seeing the golden calf.Rav Moshe obviously knew the rule that hearing is not the same as seeing, but felt that Moshe was above this rule."

    The problem is that the Hebrew quote from Darash Moshe is specifically talking about moshe and explicitly says that seeing made more of an impression on him than hearing from Hashem (it starts in the third word of the eleventh line in the right column.)

    Rabbi Eidehnsohn- Do you have anything to suggest?

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  4. I don't understand how Rav Moshe could have written these two views which in my view are incompatible.

    I recently asked Rav Bluth about the contradiction between Rav Moshe's statement about the time of Rabbeinu Tam found in the new 9th volume and the contradictory view expressed in previous volumes.

    His answer was that Rav Moshe was a very broad person and that eilu v'eilu and I shouldn't worry about it.

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  5. "His answer was that Rav Moshe was a very broad person and that eilu v'eilu and I shouldn't worry about it."

    That is not an answer at all.

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  6. "His answer was that Rav Moshe was a very broad person and that eilu v'eilu and I shouldn't worry about it."

    Was he being tounge in cheek?
    Who is R' Bluth BTW?

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  7. Rabbi Bluth is a top talmid chachom & posek who was Rav Moshe's shamash for years until Mordechai Tendler came along and took over the job. he has a shul on East 2nd STreet in Kensington Brooklyn.

    No he wasn't saying it tongue in cheek

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  8. "Rabbi Bluth... was Rav Moshe's shamash for years until Mordechai Tendler came along and took over the job."

    Details?? Details?? I'm palpitating from excitement! :)

    "he has a shul on East 2nd STreet in Kensington Brooklyn."

    Can you give an adress? Is he accessible to weirdos like myself? I'm thinking of biking over there sometime.

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  9. shaul shapira said...

    "Rabbi Bluth... was Rav Moshe's shamash for years until Mordechai Tendler came along and took over the job."

    Details?? Details?? I'm palpitating from excitement! :)

    "he has a shul on East 2nd STreet in Kensington Brooklyn."

    Can you give an adress? Is he accessible to weirdos like myself? I'm thinking of biking over there sometime.
    =================
    He is readily accessible. The shul is East 2nd near Cortelyou Road - 1 building from the corner on the way to Ditmas. Congregation Ahavas Achim 549 East 2nd St. There is no name on the outside.

    Rabbi Elimelech Bluth's number is

    (718) 854-4356

    606 E 2nd St

    Brooklyn,

    ReplyDelete

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