[I had taken this down because it sounded like a plant but others claim it is from a perplexed person who wants this issue thoroughly discussed - therefore I am reposting it]
Dear Rabbi Eidensohn,
I heard from someone who is very close to Rabbi Tropper and who spoke to Rabbi Tropper recently that the person who authenticated the Gilad Shalit tapes told Rabbi Tropper that the tapes were "arts and crafts." Additionally, the woman involved was previously in some kind of relationship with Guma and was prepared to testify for Rabbi Tropper in the lawsuit, and that this may explain the mention of payment to lawyers on the tapes.
I personally don't think that explains the complete lack of public denial, which is damning and which, as far I can tell, serves no legal purpose. This person close to Rabbi Tropper obviously has strong reasons to want to believe in Rabbi Tropper's innocence. However, regardless of one's views of Rabbi Tropper's hashakofos, personality and ego, I do think it is important to allow for the possibility that things may not be entirely as they seem from the tapes
anonymous
P.S. Since you seem to sometimes post emails as they come in, as a courtesy to the person close to Rabbi Tropper, please don't post my name or email address. This is not an anonymous attempt to start spreading pro-Tropper rumors. I have no connection to Rabbi Tropper or his supposed attorney. In fact, I had one telephone conversation with Rabbi Tropper a few months ago and was far from impressed. I'm emailing you specifically because I think you have integrity, unlike the hordes of disenchanted Jewish bloggers who are looking for spikes in the traffic to their blogs.
Dear Rabbi Eidensohn,
I heard from someone who is very close to Rabbi Tropper and who spoke to Rabbi Tropper recently that the person who authenticated the Gilad Shalit tapes told Rabbi Tropper that the tapes were "arts and crafts." Additionally, the woman involved was previously in some kind of relationship with Guma and was prepared to testify for Rabbi Tropper in the lawsuit, and that this may explain the mention of payment to lawyers on the tapes.
I personally don't think that explains the complete lack of public denial, which is damning and which, as far I can tell, serves no legal purpose. This person close to Rabbi Tropper obviously has strong reasons to want to believe in Rabbi Tropper's innocence. However, regardless of one's views of Rabbi Tropper's hashakofos, personality and ego, I do think it is important to allow for the possibility that things may not be entirely as they seem from the tapes
anonymous
P.S. Since you seem to sometimes post emails as they come in, as a courtesy to the person close to Rabbi Tropper, please don't post my name or email address. This is not an anonymous attempt to start spreading pro-Tropper rumors. I have no connection to Rabbi Tropper or his supposed attorney. In fact, I had one telephone conversation with Rabbi Tropper a few months ago and was far from impressed. I'm emailing you specifically because I think you have integrity, unlike the hordes of disenchanted Jewish bloggers who are looking for spikes in the traffic to their blogs.
The chevre on FM found the entity behind EJF, It is under
ReplyDeleteHORIZONS BAIS ACHIEZER INC.
Their EIN is 13-4077539
Their 990 form is here
http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/134/134077539/134077539_200712_990.pdf
They had last year $7,922,575 which I geuess some of money Tropper stole from Guma and the rest from 92nd Y big guy Tom Kaplan.
A lot of money was given away by Tropper, we would like to know to whom.
The executive Director by the way is Tropper's butler David Jacobs
well i have some news for you sir i know tropper for 30 years and will testify that he has been involved with women every chance he had so i have a very hard time beliveing what your saying. especially since you are not answering half of the tape. and he himself admitted to ot today
ReplyDeleteTROPPER'S CONVERSIONS WERE CROOKED AS SSON AS HE GOT OUT OF THE WAY OF THE GEDOLIM HIS TACTICS WERE THREATENING AND DISHONEST IN ALL OF HIS DEALINGS DON'T THINK THIS WAS A ONE OFF OCCURANCE HIS WHOLE CAREER NEEDS TO BE UPROOTED EVERYONE IN MONSEY WHERE HE LIVED TOO LONG TOO FOOL ANYONE AND OUT OF TOWN WHERE HE MISBEHAVED WITHOUT THE SCRUTINY O9F THE YESHIVISHE GEDOLIM CAN ATTEST TO HOW BAD HE IS
ReplyDeleteI do not believe that rabbi wachtfogel is hosting tropper, he has been made aware of all the deeds of tropper, thaqt is why he wrote the letter distncing himself from tropper, even though rav reuven blessed him for taking troppers place, tropper himself yesterday admitted that he is guilty in a PR posted on VIN, similarly did the EJF,they said they were the victims of the acts of one man. I have friends who work in the EJF, its totally false the Gilad claim, the EJF actually sent in the tapes to this fellow, he said he can not authenticate them since he has to hear him once in real life. I know of many others who did authenticitae the tapes, my freind told me all in the EJF know the tapes are true. If you check the EJF website you will see there is not one picture of tropper or mention of his name, they have deleted it all, that shows you how embarrassed they are of him.
ReplyDeleteTropwatch, you have nothing to be concerned about - this letter is clearly a load of garbage. I'm not sure why Rabbi Eidenson even published it. Anyone who has ever dealt with Troper knows that if he had had even one expert who said the tapes were false, he would have published it far an wide. Which means that SOMEONE is making stuff up out of whole cloth. Why would anyone believe anything else is an email that contains patent falsehoods.
ReplyDeleteOk since we actually want to discuss this, and since it has already come out on this blog that I have had the tapes professionally authenticated, let me start with a little background. Early in my University career through a series of events I gained a lot of technical knowledge as well as started what would be a six year endeavor to becoming a top security professional in the US. This started before my return to Judaism, and continued on through it, until now residuals essentially pay my bills as I sit and learn in Kollel. I called in personal favors to a number of old contacts and friends to have their individual agencies and services do the checks for me on an unofficial basis. As I jokingly stated earlier and will state here again in more precise detail, anyone willing to give a written promise to R’ Eidensohn for payment, upon such reciept, I will enter into negotiations with the varying people to find the best price for authentication. Then upon R’ Eidensohn(or an agreed upon third party) recieving the payment, I will have the authentication certified.
ReplyDeleteNow as to these tapes being “arts and crafts” or something like that. I suppose that it is a plausible theory, and would also like to present two other plausible theories that are about as likely. Someone hired Emperor Palpatine to use the dark side of the force on Tropper in order to force him to go off the Derech. Also since we are dealing with unlimited resources and such, why not just make an evil clone of Tropper that will do your sick and twisted bidding, and thus defame the man. After all I am sure that the Tleilaxu keep a copy of Tropper growing in their axlotl tanks for just such occasions. Yes I know, pretty far fetched. But then so is the assertion that the tapes are forgeries and here is why.
There are essentially two ways to forge an audio recording. First is cut and splice, and the second is voice mimicry. The cheapest is by far the first option and I will deal with that first.
Essentially let me start this by stating that the assertion that these audios are fake and have been forged is relying on the misconceptions of people as to what technical wizardry and money can accomplish. They are relying on you thinking that yeah since hollywood could pull it off obviously a person with lots of money could as well. However, anyone who claims that the tapes are cut an paste simply has never tried to do cut and paste sound editing. As someone with a strong background in sound and video production, it is simple. If you want a smooth recording, where the listener cannot hear noticeable breaks, skips and such, and you are pulling your sound clips from unrelated conversations. You are going to need at a minimum a thousand hours of audio(to make it truly seamless). Otherwise anyone listening would be able to quickly tell it is a fake. The first time that Hollywood pulled off a cut and paste was with the Tom Clancy movie adaptation, "Clear and Present Danger" in which they drew from all twelve years of President George H. Bush’s political service as VP and then President as well as all four years of footage his speeches as sitting US president to put together a clean fifteen seconds. They went through over 10,000 hours of recorded speeches in order to put together a fifteen second sound bite of a speech. We are talking over thirty minutes of audio... there is no way anyone should have been able to get enough audio of Tropper talking about sex and such to piece together a clean thirty minutes.
to be continued...
Option two is mimicry. Let me first disabuse you of the myths behind this. The major myth is that this can be pulled off with nothing more than a voice filter. Regarding using a voice print as a filter. What you would need for that is again thousands of a hours of voice recording to render such a filter from. Even then with a basic Adobe demo product that you can down load(soundbooth) any regular person with a little use of Adobe help features would be able to analyze and recognize a filter in use. But let's say that you have a Hollywood quality sound studio(because that is what it would take).
ReplyDeleteTo give you are real world example of what is known to be a fakery done the the way you are saying. THe movie the Crow, in which Brandon Lee was tragically killed before the end of filming. They used voice prints, voice actors and script rewriting to finish the movie. Again he had less then two minutes of total dialogue in the the rewrite. That audio cost a total of $8million dollars to do. We are talking more than thirty minutes of dialogue. In the case of Heath Ledger's last movie, The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus, Hollywood, even with all of the stock footage, behind the scenes footage, script readings and so forth, could not AFFORD to do the kind of dubbing and such that people are saying that one of Tropper's enemies pulled off seamlessly. Reportedly it would have more than doubled the 30million dollar budget of the movie.
That is with having footage(albeit of a poorer quality of the scenes being rehearsed and the lines being read by the actor in question).
Anyone who will tell you that a voice filter is easy to produce is either lying to you or has read too many spy novels. A voice filter allows for alterations or changes to an existing voice. It is often used to clean up vocal tracks for performers. Actual voice mimicry which is what you would need in this case is nigh on impossible using only a voice filter. You need an adequate voice actor.
Even with the best voice actors mimicry is typically discernible to the human ear. It can be pulled off, though with great effort. For an enemy of Tropper to do so would be nearly impossible. Honestly though, if you want to know what it takes, here is what you need:
A voice actor versed in mimicry that does not mind being involved in a criminal conspiracy and the commission of several acts of felony blackmail, defamation and libel. Most likely they would have had auditions and after a period of time, they would have made their selection as to who would play Tropper. Once that was done, they would have had to find someone to play the Rebbitzin as well. That actress too would have to be able to imitate her voice and mannerisms. Obviously, the perpetrators of the scam could not put an ad out in the trade magazines seeking actors. Hundreds of calls would have been made and everyone involved would be sworn to secrecy and paid apporpriate amounts of hush money, including the technical people. This is not a problem, of course after all funds of a millionare/billionare are unlimited right.
A script writer that can pull off a good forgery of such a conversation and who is smart enough to know to include all of the incidentals that make it sound real to people like me, and who does not mind being a part of criminal conspiracy and the commission of several acts of felony blackmail, defamation and libel. They need to able to make the audios sound authentic, not just incrminating but actually authentic. So of course we have script writers working up a script, needing to do revisions and rewrites and such.
to be continued
A Director who is smart enough to know to include all of the incidentals that make it sound real to people like me, and who does not mind being a part of criminal conspiracy and the commission of several acts of felony blackmail, defamation and libel.
ReplyDeleteA sound technician(at least one) that does not mind being involved in a criminal conspiracy and the commission of several acts of felony blackmail, defamation and libel that is proficient enough to make a forgery that will fool people who detect fraud for a living.
Brining in the fact that there are videos, body and face doubles that resemble Tropper and the Mrs who do not mind being involved in criminal conspiracy and the commission of several acts of felony blackmail, defamation and libel.
A technically proficient camera operator who does not mind being involved in criminal conspiracy and the commission of several acts of felony blackmail, defamation and libel.
A video technician adequately proficient to make the video look real that does not mind being involved in criminal conspiracy and the commission of several acts of felony blackmail, defamation and libel.
Time, lots of time. Time for the writes, rewrites, rehearsals, various recording takes, audio and video engineering. Typical time that it takes to do an equal quality short for a Hollywood release, from moment of concept to finished product is a minimum of two years. Steven Spielberg when I sat under him at the Boy Scout National Jamboree for the Movie Making merit badge, said general rule of thumb is 18 months for every fifteen minutes. That is doing it legitimately and in the open.
Money, lots and lots of money. If it would cost hollywood say as little as four mill(that is being laughably conservative) to pull something like this off on a movie screen where people are willingly suspending disbelief and thus willing, however subconsciously, overlook flaws, how much do you think it would cost pull it off where people are going to be examining it in order to hopefully fool them and not be caught in a criminal conspiracy? Add to that the fact that hollywood costs are for legal work, here you have to employ someone willing to work illegally, that usually costs more. Then since they obviously have no problems with being a part of blackmail, what is to keep them from blackmailing their initial employer? What is to keep them from getting jittery when people start questioning and running to the authorities in hopes of a plea deal with consideration for being a state witness? Of course none of this is a concern because of course the Millionare/Billionare has unlimited financial resources. Naturally, the parties involved would be paid in cash by a mysterious millionare/billionaire. He would have to willing to risk audits, government investigations and serious questions about his agenda and reputation. He would have to willing to have all his finances scrutinized.
That kind of outlay of cash would be easily traceable. Let's face it the number of enemies that Tropper has that can afford to spend in the tens of millions of dollars for a frame up are very limited. If the tapes were a fake Tropper should have already pressed charges against those people, and started a criminal investigation.
As far as authenticating the tapes. That also takes a serious outlay of funds because the organization that does the authentication would have to be willing to stake their reputation on the line as well open themselves up to lawsuits. For those looking at more cost effective means by themselves. The MaGyver way of doing it is to download a demo copy of a Biometric voice analyzer, as well as a demo copy of either Adobe Audition or Adobe Soundbooth(home user version of Audition). Run an analyses on Audition for any in place filters. You won't find any because they were not used. Second play into your Biometric software every available clip of Leib Tropper talking that is known to be him, aka EJF videos ect. Then play the Audios and see if you have a match. It will.
JDB TO Mekubal -
ReplyDeleteLooks like the darn Tleilaxu have put the Kollel you in their infernal tanks and have replaced you with a computer-generated doppleganger who has no interest in human life, whose sole mission is arrogantly displaying pseudo-technical expertise on this blog!
Some learner you are! Your interest in movies belies your interest in shteiging!
JDB
To JDB,
ReplyDeleteAs someone else who has been involved in the industry, I feel the need to show how silly your derogatory remarks to mekubal are.
The money in high end graphics is to be found in Hollywood. There is utmost secrecy and millions of dollars involved when a special effects or animated movie is being produced. Computer manufacturers, graphics board manufacturers, support specialists and programmers all work together with the FX department to get something out there that was not able to be accomplished before. Anyone studying the capabilities of these systems is always immersed in what is being produced in the movie industry, so they can know what a crook might be able to do with varying amounts of resources.
Some people make a living during the day and learn a few hours at night. Some smoke cigarettes and hang around the beis medrash all day, maybe learning a few hours a day and trying to shmutz up everyone else in their spare time.