Tuesday, June 10, 2008

Rav Moshe Sternbuch shlita - Guidelines for calling the Police II

I thought Rav Sternbuch's comments were clear - and yet I just saw some pretty gross distortions of his views on another blog that cited my posting. In fact the comments on that blog reflected an understanding just the opposite of what Rav Sternbuch actually said. Rav Sternbuch’s point was that when there is present and future danger the police should be called. It is important to know that the previous posting was read, edited and approved by Rav Sternbuch himself. However some blogs have an automatic bias against rabbis and so they assume that Rav Sternbuch is trying to protect molesters. The truth is just the opposite. Furthermore these bloggers assume that if someone is a molester, it is obvious that one should always call the police and publicize the crime. Again it is not always simple and obvious as to how to proceed.

What follows is simply my own attempt to try to provide a clarification and context for his words and any misunderstandings are solely my responsibility.

Rav Sternbuch’s point was that when there is present and future danger the police should be called. This view is one not only contrary to the public perception of how the chareidi world deals with these issues but is also contrary to the rulings of many rabbis – especially in the past. Rav Sternbuch is not saying that the role of the rabbis is to stop a person from calling the police – but to clarify that there is a present and future danger. If it is clear that a person is a molester – i.e., he confesses or there are clear witnesses - then it is probable that the police need to be involved. If it uncertain whether the accusations are true – but there is a clear possibility and the trauma is real – the police are better equipped to investigate.

However the investigation by the police and social workers is not a pleasant or neutral experience. There can be a real danger of trauma for the child and his family because of the questioning of the police or social workers. Not all police departments, social workers or psychologists are properly trained to deal with these cases with sensitivity. Consequently parents and/or the prosecutor will sometimes decide not to press charges or will accept confession to a lesser charge – to avoid further trauma to the child and family.

I just received the following note from a rabbi who has been involved in these issues for many years.

"Excellent public service about child molesting. However you left out the main problem with calling the police. Here [in New York State] when you call the police the family courts and police gain control over the molested child and even parents are forced at times to go to therapy and satisfy secular people. Someone here caught a man molesting his children. He called me up foaming at the mouth and threatened to call the police. I told him that was fine but before he did he should find out what is going to happen to him once he calls the police about his child. He called me back later thanking me and he did not call the police.”

I was recently asked for advice from a man who had just discovered that his son was a child molester. He wanted to know whether and how he should inform his brother that his schizophrenic son had been molesting his brother’s ten year old son? I told him that even though his son was seeing a therapist, he needed to contact someone who had a lot of experience in this area as to how to proceed. Not every psychologist or social worker is competent to deal with these issues.

Rav Sternbuch told me that he is fully aware of the fact the condition is difficult to treat and success is not common. Therefore he says he typically will tell a person who contacts him that he should call the police.. His message was simply that rabbis who automatically advise people not to call the police in situations of present and future danger are mistaken.

Rav Sternbuch’s statement that a rabbi should be consulted, doesn’t mean any person with semicha can be consulted. The average rabbi is not equipped to deal with these issues – nor is the average therapist or social worker. You need to consult someone who is experienced and successful in this area.

I just spoke with another posek who concurred with Rav Sternbuch's position. I asked him why it seems so obvious now but that this what not the standard psak 10 or 15 years ago. He replied that the rabbis in those days were not aware of the serious impact these attacks have on children. This ignorance is not just in the chareidi world but also existed/exists in the Modern Orthodox world see the links on the Wikipedia article about R Yosef Blau mashgiach at Yeshiva University.

4 comments :

  1. "He replied that the rabbis in those days were not aware of the serious impact these attacks have on children.'

    Why was it SO poshut to man balei battim 15 yrs ago, what is now poshut to the Rabonim?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Chaim Yankel said...

    "He replied that the rabbis in those days were not aware of the serious impact these attacks have on children.'

    Why was it SO poshut to man balei battim 15 yrs ago, what is now poshut to the Rabonim?
    =================

    see response

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008
    /06/
    rav-moshe-sternbuch-shlita-guidelines_11.html

    ReplyDelete
  3. "Not all police departments, social workers or psychologists are properly trained to deal with these cases with sensitivity."

    Is there even a single rabbi in the world with both the training and the authority to do a proper forensic investigation? I am unaware of any. Rabbis don't have the training to do the lab work; most have never even seen the inside of a lab. Some rabbis do have training in counseling, but most don't -- and those that do have not had training in elucidating the truth from children in situations like this. And what Rabbi today has the power to compel testimony? Yes, the police and social service agencies are not perfect. But if you call the rabbi instead you are *guaranteed* to get at best an incompetant investigation.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Charlie Hall said...

    "Not all police departments, social workers or psychologists are properly trained to deal with these cases with sensitivity."

    Is there even a single rabbi in the world with both the training and the authority to do a proper forensic investigation? I am unaware of any. Rabbis don't have the training to do the lab work; most have never even seen the inside of a lab. Some rabbis do have training in counseling, but most don't -- and those that do have not had training in elucidating the truth from children in situations like this. And what Rabbi today has the power to compel testimony? Yes, the police and social service agencies are not perfect. But if you call the rabbi instead you are *guaranteed* to get at best an incompetant investigation.
    ======================
    You are correct that a rabbi is not the address for a professional investigation. However an experienced rabbi can verify whether there is a reasonable basis for calling the police. Typically Rav Sternbuch does advise those calling him to call the police.

    ReplyDelete

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