Kiruv V - Orthodox and Reform meld - the slippery slope

Recipients and Publicity in his continuing series on the dynamics of contemporary kiruv

KIRUV TODAY: WHERE ORTHODOXY AND REFORM MEET!

Or

THE AGE OF ORTHODOX AND HAREDI KIRUV MEETS REFORM AND CONSERVATIVE KERUV!

Or

1980s to the present: A dangerous turning point in the history of Kiruv Rechokim and the Baal Teshuva Movement and Revolution.

Just in passing reference to Chabad, it would be worthy to note that with the mere existence of Chabad husband & wife shluchim/shluchos teams, lets assume that there are about five thousand of them in the wide world and if each couple brings in just one secular couple a year into their sphere of interest, not a far-fetched idea, then that makes five thousand new couples and ten thousand new "recruits" a year, and if even a quarter are not Halachically Jewish, then that means that all over the world, Chabad is responsible for pulling in 2,500 people into Jewish religious life who require Halachic conversions PER YEAR, and if one multiplies that over ten years that amounts to 25,000 people in that category which brings the entire matter to critical mass, and if one just doubles the figures assuming that Chabad rabbis and rebbetzins can each pull in more than one couple a year, that means that in the last ten years 50,000 people are involved in Chabad and Orthodox life who had not started out life as Halachic Jews, so that one clearly sees that what is happening is that with the success and spread of Orthodox kiruv, as practiced by Chabad or Aish HaTorah or NCSY or any group active in the field, many tens of thousands of non-Halachic Jews are being drawn in, just based on the UJA's groundbreaking and eye popping National Jewish Population Surveys (NJPS) www.ujc.org/njps of 1990 http://www.jewishdatabank.org/NJPS1990.asp and 2000 http://www.jewishdatabank.org/NJPS2000.asp (the 1990 report was so bad that they had to doctor the results of the 2000 report, but that is another subject) and that it is therefore beyond any shadow of a doubt that KIRUV AS WE KNOW IT OF REACHING OUT TO JEWS ONLY IS OVER, the "NEW" KIRUV IS ALL ABOUT REACHING BOTH JEWS AND THE NON-HALACHIC JEWS ATTACHED TO THEM. (That is why Rabbi Leib Tropper and his "kosher" EJF efforts are so cutting edge and relevant and when the BADATZ finally got to smell the coffee and wake up and sent notices out to Recipients and it received Publicity that ehrliche Orthodox rabbis were not to join in the EJF worldwide effort to welcome in non-Jews to Orthodoxy conversions no matter how "appealing" or "right" things mayy seem from a so-called kiruv perspective.)

And this brings us to the main topic of this post, that it can safely be stated, based on both the admissions of those in the field and the statistical and social realities, that the BROAD RANGED AGENDAS of BOTH the huge Orthodox/Haredi/Hasidic kiruv organisations and movements and those of the REFORM movement, with the Conservatives running a close second ARE THE SAME, in that they are:

(a) NOT to be repelled by the thought of having to reach out to non-Halachic Jews and even gentiles thereby rejecting them from mass strict Halachic conversions as required by Halacha itself of course, but on the contrary to

(b) REACH OUT and "MEKAREV" the non-Jewish and gentile spouses or children of non-Halachic Jews and provably gentile mothers, and even easing up on welcoming any gentiles who drop by a for "coffee and kiruv".

So that this is what it adds up to:

What the Reform and their Conservative allies are doing DE JURE (officially), the major kiruv movements are doing DE FACTO (unofficially) and at times even approaching the de jure efforts of Reform and even, believe it, being in the same boat with the same students and sharing the same synagogue spaces, such as when Orthodoxy's Rabbi Ephraim Buchwald's huge NJOP program http://www.njop.org/ runs programs for the last twenty years in almost every Reform, Conservative and even Reconstructionist synagogue and venue, not caring about Orthodox venues or what his Orthodox kiruv co-workers may think about it all!

It must be noted that Reform goes even further, that it has decided to outright proselytise gentiles not personally connected to Jews or Judaism in any way in order, they rationalize, to increase the numbers of Jews. This is like allowing a bunch of alcoholics to run a liquor business in the hope that they will bring in "more sobriety and more business" or like offering free bread and cheese to mice in the hope that they will join the human race in not being pests. All very distorted, yet taken very seriously in Reform and Conservative circles.

The Reform call it "keruv" with an "e" faking dikduk correctness, but the Reform and Conservatives are now as much into "keruv" as the Orthodox and Haredim are into the less correctly spelled "kiruv":

The official Reform movement site http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:R53f-qHU8NYJ:www.urj.org/outreach/+keruv+Reform&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us states openly:

"Union for Reform Judaism / Outreach

Reform Jewish Outreach serves a diverse population: men and women; interfaith and interracial couples; converts, those in the process of conversion and religious seekers; Jews of color; people of all sexual orientations; single adults and blended families; rich and poor; young and old and in-between.

As Reform Jews, we are committed to actively welcoming all and building vibrant, inclusive congregational communities. We seek to perform the mitzvot of ahavat ger (loving the stranger) and keruv (drawing near all who are far). The William & Lottie Daniel Department of Outreach and Membership, together with the URJ-CCAR Commission on Outreach and Membership, has a dual mission:

*to empower and encourage individuals and families, including interfaith families, to make meaningful Jewish choices in the context of membership in a Reform congregation

*to assist Reform congregations in their efforts to become sacred communities that welcome the full diversity of Jews and their families and those seeking to join or come closer to the Jewish people, through effective recruitment, engagement and lifelong retention of members"

And that gets one thinking, hey, if Reform is so positive about this stuff, instead of preaching the old doctrines of "Berlin is Jerusalem" and their notoriously schismatic Pittsburgh Platform (1885) opining that:

"3. We recognize in the Mosaic legislation a system of training the Jewish people for its mission during its national life in Palestine, and today we accept as binding only its moral laws, and maintain only such ceremonies as elevate and sanctify our lives, but reject all such as are not adapted to the views and habits of modern civilization.

4. We hold that all such Mosaic and rabbinical laws as regulate diet, priestly purity, and dress originated in ages and under the influence of ideas entirely foreign to our present mental and spiritual state. They fail to impress the modern Jew with a spirit of priestly holiness; their observance in our days is apt rather to obstruct than to further modern spiritual elevation.

5. We recognize, in the modern era of universal culture of heart and intellect, the approaching of the realization of Israel s great Messianic hope for the establishment of the kingdom of truth, justice, and peace among all men. We consider ourselves no longer a nation, but a religious community, and therefore expect neither a return to Palestine, nor a sacrificial worship under the sons of Aaron, nor the restoration of any of the laws concerning the Jewish state."

But see, today they talk of "keruv" and are actually envious of Chabad's and other Orthodox groups outreach that they must ape that, because in any case, most kiruv in the first stages does not expect anything different than just hanging out with the rabbis and attending some generalized classes and having a good time at Shabbat dinners "across America" or whatever.

The Conservative's Dr. Gary A. Tobin's "Opening the Gates: How Proactive Conversion Can Revitalize the Jewish Community" (San Francisco: Jossey Bass Publishers, 1999) and in http://www.jewishresearch.org/PDFs2/ShmaFamilies_4_03.pdf he concludes

"...The American image of Jews as either central or eastern European, largely Ashkenazi descendants from Fiddler on the Roof does not reflect the complexity of the American Jewish family.

Those who are subject to nostalgia often long for some particular time and place, and associate it with some particular mythology of “how life used to be. ”Moreover, the Jewish community as a whole continues to cling to an ideal that may not even be desirable. Maybe bringing non-Jews to be part of the Jewish people, for example, so that we grow and prosper rather than diminish is desirable rather than horrifying. Perhaps we should embrace the growing diversity rather than be afraid.

If the Jewish organizational and institutional structures — our synagogues, community centers, federations, and the vast array of human service and educational institutions — are going to do their job in helping the Jewish community to be vital and strong, they should embrace who we are, rather than lament who they think we used to be or think we should be. For, indeed, we live neither in the 1950s nor in the time of Abraham. We live in the 21st century, and we should deal with the reality of who we are—now."

The Conservatives also have a program called "Federation of Jewish Men's Clubs: Our Mission":

"The Federation of Jewish Men's Clubs is an organization of approximately 270 Conservative/Masorti Jewish men's groups consisting of 25,000 individuals across North America and the world. The FJMC involves Jewish men in Jewish life by building and strengthening Men's Clubs in the Conservative/Masorti Movement.

Our objectives are to train and develop leaders to build and strengthen Men's Clubs; to create and implement programs to involve men in Jewish life; and to be an active and influential participant in the Conservative/Masorti Movement."

And one of their biggest aims, is what else, "keruv" http://www.fjmc.org/keruv.html , naturally, with things like "Congregations with Keruv Programs and Consultants":

"What's a Keruv Consultant?

The Federation of Jewish Men's Clubs Keruv Initiative seeks to provide guidance and comfort to those within our congregations who are intermarried, whose children are intermarried, or who have extended family of another faith

Keruv Consultants are experts in the implementation of the FJMC Keruv programs, as defined by the FJMC Publications, HEARING MEN'S VOICES - VOLUMES FOUR & FIVE, Building the Faith & Let's Talk About It.

The issue of intermarriage confronts us as a community and within our own families. Given the fact of the dual faith marriage, how do we reach out to encourage these families to adopt a Jewish lifestyle, indeed to increase their involvement in Jewish life? Where do we begin as a congregation and as individuals to transform ourselves to make this outreach a success? should this be a priority at this time? With the publication of ''HEARING MEN'S VOICES: Building the Faith'' in 2001 there has been an outpouring of interest at program after program led by men's clubs in synagogues throughout North America"

and this is backed up with articles from the Baltimore Jewish Times "Conservatives Grapple With Intermarriage":

"The high stakes were not being glossed over.

"The bad news is, the way things are, there probably won't be a Conservative movement in 50 or 100 years," said Stephen Lachter, noting that the 2000 National Jewish Population Study saw the percentage of Conservative Jews slip below that of Reform ones. "The good news is that those of us in the Conservative movement have the power to change that."

Later, he added, "We are all Jews by choice. We make choices about our Judaism every day. It's not unusual that people move along. They take an introduction to Judaism course. They take a basic Hebrew course and then they convert to Judaism. That happens in our synagogue and I assume it happens elsewhere. You need to provide people with information. But you have to do it in a positive, effective way"."

and the Washington Jewish Week "consider best approaches to reaching out to intermarried families":

"...a new Conservative movement initiative to guide congregations in welcoming intermarried families.

The keruv think tank and training program last week in Baltimore was the second seminar organized by the Federation of Jewish Men's Clubs to help rabbis and lay leaders address a range of issues arising from intermarriage. (Keruv means "bring near" in Hebrew and is often used to refer to inreach and outreach.)

The seminar included sessions titled "Broaching Conversion to the Non-Jewish Partner" and "Developing Strategies for the Non-Jewish Spouse," as well as advice in areas such as the proper language Jews should utilize to talk to a non-Jewish son- or daughter-in-law...

But Simon stresses that the keruv project is not sanctioning intermarriage, but merely reacting to the large percentage of Conservative Jews with intermarriages in their own families -- and encouraging those who are intermarried to raise their children in the synagogue.

In addition, non-Jewish spouses who feel welcome are more likely to explore conversion, say Simon and local Jewish leaders who attended last week's conference.

"We need to figure out a way to welcome [the non-Jewish spouses of intermarried couples] into our shuls or lose these people," said Stephen Lachter, past president of the Adas Israel Men's Club and a keruv consultant who attended last week's seminar...

"As a result of having the kind of policy we're talking about, [and] without setting any kind of precondition, these individuals ultimately decided to embrace Judaism," Weinblatt said.

Lachter called the keruv initiative "the most profound and important thing going on in the Conservative movement today."

"What else could be more Jewish than to treat people in a caring way?"."

The important thing to note is that both the Reform and Conservatives have taken over and now embrace and welcome the language AND THE ACTIVITY of "keruv"/"kiruv" OPENLY, OFFICIALLY with unashamed keruv/outreach to those of doubtful Halachic Jewish status as well as to to pure gentiles, so that then it is really no different to the often HIDDEN, UNofficial yet also unabashed mekareving that Orthodox, Haredi and Chabad rabbis and kiruv workers are doing when they too lure and welcome into their midst the same people that that the Reform and Conservatives are now "keruving" out to.

This is a dangerous turning point in the history of Kiruv Rechokim and the Baal Teshuva Movement and Revolution.

In the first stage of the Golden Age of Kiruv from the 1950s to the 1980s when Reform and Conservative were still cock-sure of themselves and did not care if their youth joined "fringe groups" (and even if they did care, there was nothing they could do about it in any case), but from late 1980s and especially from 1990, when the frightening truths about intermarriage and Jews and gentiles welded and melded and wed to each came to the fore in the shape of the 1990 UJA sponsored National Jewish Population Survey in the USA they panicked and began their "keruv" initiatives to all and sundry and it was at that time, combined with the results of Reform's decision to accept patrilineal descent as being enough of a criterion for Jewishness that then meant that one could no longer take for granted the "Jewishness" of anyone who claimed to be Jewish, and with the rise in intermarraige across the board, THE AGE OF KIRUV AS WE KNOW IT WAS OVER, and thus began THE AGE OF ORTHODOX AND HAREDI KIRUV MEETS REFORM AND CONSERVATIVE KERUV that has been ongoing from the late 1980s into the 21st century.

Thus the very real squabbles and battles over conversions, which are valid and which are not, and how far kiruv workers should be involved in the process has become a key issues all over the world. In Israel, the struggle involves rabbinical organs inside and outside of the official state of Israel's legal and legislative structure in both the Halachich and secular legal domains due to the political realities of living in the political state, but the issues are just as critical and burning in North America, the UK, Europe and wherever large groups of Jews are to be found facing the assimilation, intermarriage and conversion issues of the day.

The following analogy may be a little sharp, so please pardon it, but the word "kiruv" or as spelled "keruv" share the same root as the word "kirva" and alas also "kurva" and as much as "kirva" may refer to the elevated spiritual state of "kirvat Elokim" of being close to God, yet in another context and degrading sense there is also the word "kurva" in Hebrew and Yiddish which means "prostitute" since it is also a form of "coming (too) close" but of the wrong type of "closeness" that while it may give momentary pleasure also carries with it risks of disease and degradation and even death. Similarly the Biblical word "zona" can mean healthy "sustenance" and denote positive nutrition such as with breads as "mazon" yet it shares a root, if used against morality of "zona" a woman who "sustains" a man sexually with fleeting carnal pleasures for the wrong reasons and with degrading results that are paid for rather than attained in a moral and legitimate way.

The Reform and Conservative's "keruv" must be seen as the dark side of Orthodoxy's Kiruv in order for the Orthodox and Haredi kiruv rabbi and professional to retain a correct perspective and a clear conscience that they are not swimming in the same cesspools that the Reform and Conservatives created for themselves in the first place.

Thus it's clear that THE challenges for the Orthodox erhliche and Halachicaly uncomprisng kiruv rabbi and professional is to cut through the haze and the maze that now links Reform and Conservative "keruv" with Orthodox and Haredi "kiruv" OUT THERE IN THE FIELD, in the so-called "real world" where "East meets West" and how to split this atom requires the brains of an Einstein, the wisdom of a Solomon, and the prophetic spirit of Eliyahu Hanavi in CORRECTLY bringing the hearts of JEWISH fathers and mothers and JEWISH sons and daughters together but NOT to cause spiritual Chernobel-like meltdowns that will hurt everyone who comes close to the radioactive and toxic mess of the inevitable interplay between bad kiruv and conversion decisions..

To be continued...

Kiruv VII - Aish HaTorah - what makes it tick?

Recipients and Publicity commented on "Kiruv VI - an embarrassingly shoddy attack on Aish...":

AISH HATORAH AND CONTROVERSY ARE NOT NEW TO EACH OTHER!

While Aish HaTorah is arguably the most successful young adult kiruv program in the world (not inclusive of Chabad, or of NCSY with is for teens), starting from a handful of students in the mid-1970s its empire has been built up by its founder, guide and rosh yeshiva, Rav Noach Weinberg, from a dream he had and a handful of students to a worldwide multi-multi-million empire that has recruited billionaires, and the likes of Hollywood directors and moguls like Steven Spielberg and has spawned programs that have promoted the likes of Margaret Thatcher, Bibi Netanyahu and Micheil Gorbachev and many others.

It is well known that in the USA, Rav Elya Svei, the rosh yeshiva of the Philadelphia yeshiva, had often levelled public criticism's of them and that it was part of a rivalry of Hashkofas between the very yeshivish Rav Elya Svei and Rav Noach's brother and Aish's mentor the more eclectic Rav Yaakov Weinberg, late rosh yeshiva of Ner Israel in Baltimore MD.

The Haredi world in America is never sure what to make of Aish HaTorah and how to react to them.

Essentially Aish stays clear of all major yeshivas and their leadership in America.

They have there own internal leadership system with the most successful Aish rabbis (meaning those who have raised the most millions or better yet, tens of millions each for Aish) and they answer to no one but Rav Noach Weinberg and a few carefully chosen close assistants that act like a "ruling council" based mostly in Aish Jerusalem. All Aish rabbis have their own internal conference in Jerusalem at least once a year and they all the skills and tools of the modern technological and business age.

The Aish HaTorah phenomenon ties in with the second phase of the age of kiruv in the world. The first Golden Phase of Kiruv from the early 1950s to the 1980s was an idealistic age with Baalei Teshuva returning for idealistic reasons and few old-time Aish rabbis come from that time, but they are a tiny minority.

Most Aish rabbis were hand-picked and groomed from the 1980s onwards, they are Yuppies - with a "Y" - (short for "young urban professional" or "young upwardly-mobile professional") http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie Generations X-ers (a term used to describe generations in many countries around the world born from 1965 to around 1982) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X who are "operators" and businessmen with the attitudes of investment bankers and hedge fund speculators, products of the rise of the age of the "Masters of the Universe" types, as described in the Tom Wolf novel "The Bonfire of the Vanities" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bonfire_of_the_Vanities when Wall Street greed and materialism were the order of the day and the age of the Hippies (with an "H") was finally buried.

Aish HaTorah understands the age of materialism and the shallowness that is the outcome of the comfortable lifestyle and it has adjusted its calling card and signal to that frequency and thereby gets its audience's attention, but at the same time, many of its cadre of activist rabbis also come from this same milieu and while that may make them superb kiruv professionals, but to some looking in from the outside they can come across and are seen for the shallow, power hungry, manipulative and GREEDY lot that they often are.

So that rather than knocking the writer of this article and saying "well there go the secular again" try to stop a minute, take what it says with a grain of salt and not get so self-righteously upset that only looks like a smokescreen for honest debate and analysis, and tune in to the inner core of what is being said and it is not a flattering picture because the truth in this case is not flattering.

Now of course making people frum is a great thing and it is what kiruv is ultimately all about, but it is known among all reliable kiruv circles that Aish HaTorah plays loose with lots and lots of things to achieve its own goals and it is well-known in the kiruv world that Aish will facilitate with shady conversions if they have to, and it cannot be otherwise because they are so connected to the intermarried young generation X-ers and many of them are just not Halachic Jews. Like for Chabad, and for Rabbi Leib Tropper and his EJF, it's tough for Aish because so much BIG money, prestige, power and jobs are at stake!

So it's a tough call for them and for the frum world that is expecting positive fruits from all this kiruv activity and hallabaloo, but to resort to knee-jerk defenses of Aish on this blog is not required because Aish has it's own websites and propaganda machines that are supported by tens of millions of dollars that are meant to go to kiruv and "outreach" so let's see how they react it and not shed crocodile tears for them.

There is much more to be said about Aish and how it has both helped and corrupted the world of kiruv. They want to have their cake and eat it so that sometimes that can lead to indigestion and vomit.

To be continued...

Eternal Jewish Family - R' Tropper's blog

Below is evidence that R' Tropper's has totally lost contact with reality. He falsely asserts that HaRav Moshe Sternbuch and the Bedatz did not criticize him on halachic grounds. He falsely asserts that their motivation is solely to support R' Nosson Slifkin . This despite the fact that Rav Sternbuch has published his opinion that the views of R' Slikin are heresy - even though he acknowledges that R' Slikin not a heretic. Anybody with even a minimal contact of reality know R' Tropper's statements are not innocent errors but are lies and slander. The attempt to divert attention from R' Tropper's very questionable halachic position by claiming that it is all a conspiracy to defend R' Slifkin - is a sad commentary on the state of this man. Furthermore if he is claiming that I am a secret defender of R' Slifkin and have succeeded in convincing the Bedatz to attack R' Tropper - that is even more bizarre than the first. I am not a supporter of R' Slifkin's views and I have absolutely no control over the views of the Bedatz . I do agree with the Bedatz that R' Tropper's halachic grounds are very questionable. This is RaP's summary of sources from the Bedatz

RaP: Can you point to the alleged "irrationality" you IMAGINE? Is the owner of this blog Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn "irrational", who posted I, II and and many other posts like this and who posts his and others' comments after serious review of each comment and who opposes the EJF effort and Rabbi Tropper's methods? Is Rav Moshe Shternbuch "irrational" for opposing efforts, see "Rav Moshe Sternbuch - Authorized Translation" and "Rav Moshe Sternbuch - Kiruv for non-Jews and "Bedatz Letter regarding EJF signed by Gaavad" like those of Rabbi Tropper and the EJF? Is the entire BADATZ of the powerful Eidah HaChareidis "irrational" (are Horav Meir Brandsorfer, Horav Moshe Sternbuch, Horav Naftoli Frenkal, Horav Avrohom Yitzchok Ulman, Horav Yakov Mendel Yorovitch, Horav Yehoushua Rosenberg ALL "irrational" too for signing it?) see "Bedatz letter regarding conversion" and of taking the extreme measure of openly, see "Bedatz letter regarding conversion" and rebuking and warning dayanim and batei din all over the world who were Recipients of its official warning letters and giving Publicicty to it, authorising its dissemination online through this very blog by Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn. It has been Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn who has asked for written Halachik clarifications from Rabbi Tropper and EJF and none has been forthcoming, so take it up with him if you think he and others being "irrational" for asking for a written reason al pi din and for his efforts EJF tried to smear him, see "EJF smear campaign"

=========================================== Rabbi Tropper's Blog [previous response to a blog criticism] Questions and Answers About Eternal Jewish Family With Rabbi Leib Tropper Question: What is the focus of Eternal Jewish Family’s Work?

Answer: We wish to protect those who want to Have an authentic conversion which will never be questioned, by informing them of the proper Batei Din that Can Facilitate that kind of conversion.

Question: There are some Blogs that have all kinds of claims against Eternal Jewish Family, particularly one blog that is controlled by a Religious man. Have you any response to those claims? Answer:

We do not Look at blogs hence no reason to Respond. There is one Particular Rabbi who we never met but heard that he has a blog that Speaks against EJF. I know of the Rabbi and communicated with him about 2-3 times.

It became apparrent to us that the Rabbi’s attacks had little to do with the laws of Yoreh Deah siman 248-9 which discuss the laws of conversion. It has to do with a group of people that are furious over my voiced opposition to R’ Nosson Slifkin ’s book which was banned by the Gedolei Torah.

This we discovered through many sources despite the camouflage. These people are Devout Followers of Rabbi Slifkin who have made it their campaign to attack those who opposed R’ Nosson Slifkin’s views. There is much more to say about this topic. For now, be sure that the Rabbi’s hatred for Eternal Jewish Family is rooted in the above… NOTHING to do with the Laws of Geirus.

This Rabbi, who authored a book as well, IS and WAS a STRONG supporter of R’ Nosson Slifkin despite the declaration of opposition From Gedolei Yisroel and despite the signed opposition of his own Rav, shlita. Considering all the above it becomes Clear why his manufactured claims are irrelevant. I Travel the world and Gedolei Yisroel all over are supportive of the objectives of EJF. People from all walks of life have sent us letters of encouragement and applauded Mr. Kaplan’s strength in taking on this challenge. Mr. Kaplan is not a Major supporter of Kol Yaakov. His Focus is on Eternal Jewish Family. In contrast to what was reported, Horizons is a kiruv organization only. In Israel, it is known as Ofakym. As far the report that I heard regarding Rabbi Nochum Eisenstein removing himself from Eternal Jewish Family, that is false. He comes to all Eternal Jewish Family rabbinic events and we speak with him numerous times during a week. I am sure that this Rabbi will never stop his attacks on Eternal Jewish Family. He made it his life’s mission.

Response to AmicusEJF's criticisms of my blog and defense of EJF

AmicusEJF wrote:

”… I disagree with your decision to allow the carmella corleone post. I was also very disappointed with your decision to post that negative piece on Dr. Kaplan. I was very turned off from that and you may have noticed that I have barely commented since then. I believe that once you allow such supermarket tabloid style discussion, you have lowered the level of the blog to where many Jewish blogs are: in the gutter.”

I am sorry that the comments on this blog offend you. As I have alluded to before – there are basically two types of posting – one which records facts or opinions which purport to describe reality. As you yourself note this is an accurate description of most of what is posted on this blog. On the other hand there are postings here which convey the emotional reality or visceral substrate. I think that this has to be sampled also – though in only in limited quantities. This point is relevant to your subsequent comments.

You say: Why does EJF rely on anonymous spokesmen? ... In other words are these individuals actual spokesmen who are in fact representing Rabbi Tropper - but he doesn't want their identity revealed?

Speaking for myself, while I am a friend of EJF, and a volunteer who tries to help out with some things, R' Tropper has not sent me as a spokesman. Quite the opposite, he has questioned the usefulness of commenting on blogs and trying to correct errors and misimpressions on a blog. Since I have followed your [R' Eidensohn's] work over some years [Yad Moshe, Yad Yisroel, Daas Torah, many Avodah forum postings], I have a great respect for you. I thought that, even though this is a blog, it is different: It is R' Eidensohn's blog. It may be a house in a slummy neighborhood, but it is a talmid chacham's house. But then I saw that long innuendo-filled post against Dr. Kaplan, and I said to myself: Maybe, R' Tropper was right. And as I type these words in the "Leave your comment" box just to the left of carmella corleone's miasmic jeers, I don't know if I will comment here too much longer. And that is a shame, because I think there is value in answering sincere questions about EJF and in learning from valid criticisms.

While you seem to debate by the Marquis of Queensbury’s rules – Rabbi Tropper does not. While you speak in righteous indignation about the mud being slung at Rabbi Tropper and company – you don’t seem to be bothered by the mud he slings. Your defensive reading of his slur against me regarding my citation of the Abarbanel in my sefer Daas Torah – was a creative reading – but patently missed the point. I also sent you a copy of the correspondence I had with him. It was surely cut of the same cloth as those posts you found offensive when directed at Eternal Jewish Family. Yet you haven’t expressed any concern about them. You might also note in the correspondence that I informed Rabbi Tropper that he had written an inappropriate letter to Rav Sternbuch. He said he would send an apology. Last time I checked Rav Sternbuch had not received it. Perhaps you might remind him. Or are you saying that slinging mud is permitted in emails but not on blogs?

In sum – Rabbi Tropper is a tough political fighter and sometimes the offense he causes can best be dealt with by responses in kind. I personally do not question his motivation and sincerity – but other sincere individuals clearly do.

So let's return, in the meantime, to your post. You write: Or are they self-appointed representatives because Rabbi Tropper doesn't feel the need to explain the true nature of his operations... why doesn't Rabbi Tropper want to clarify and justify what he is doing? Well, clarify and justify to whom? To this blog? As explained above, he questions the utility of that, and with carmella on my screen, I can't say he's wrong. To the Bedatz? There I think you have a good point. If he were seeking the Bedatz's haskomah, then it would be incumbent upon him to clarify and justify his operations to their satisfaction. [I have no idea if that was ever attempted, but judging from what you have written, I would assume not.] On the other hand, if the Bedatz wants to publish an opinion on the EJF, I would suggest that, as part of their derishah and chakira, they or their people would call up talmidei chachamim who are heavily involved with EJF's operations, such as Rav Reuven Feinstein or Rav Shmiel Eliezer Stern of Rav Wosner's Beis Din, to understand what the clarifications and justifications are. This may have happened, I don't know. They may have not been satisfied with these and decided to oppose EJF. That is their prerogative.

I find it rather strange that EJF feels the burden of proof is on those who question them. When a major innovation is introduced into a mesora based society – the obligation is on the innovator to justify it. Why is it only necessary to respectfully communicate when seeking a haskomah? EJF’s widely trumpeted goal is universally accepted conversion.” The Bedatz represents an important group – whether you agree with them or not – whose acceptance or rejection clearly impacts the degree that the slogan “universal acceptance” is true. EJF can’t claim universal standards and then say to any part of the Jewish world - “I don’t have to justify myself to you because I really don’t care what you think – and I don’t care if you accept my conversions.” Universal standards which are only accepted by a part of the Orthodox world – are not universal standards! Isn’t that obvious?

To clarify and justify to the public at large? Well, that's exactly what I am trying to do here unofficially. Officially, they have printed a two-page spread in Hamodia and reprinted it in the Jewish Press. Also, they are working on redoing their website. My hope is that, one day, you should be able to find the clarifications and justifications you seek over there. But that two page spread was important. I suggest that you make a pdf file of it and make it available here.

Why is a public relations campaign in the Jewish Press considered a desirable part of EJF’s public relations – but satisfying the Bedatz’s legitimate concerns is not? If you have a pdf of the ad I would like to see it and maybe would even put it on this blog – but I would like it even more if there was a delegation sent to the Bedatz to calmly discuss what is going on.

You write about: to pursue or activiely persuade someone to convert and spending millions of dollars to persuade the nonJewish spouse to convert.

This is old ground. I have already written that these are moot points since EJF is not the first contact for gerus candidates. EJF deals only with referrals. Call them up and pretend to be a goy wishing to convert. They will send you to a local Rav. It is the local Rav or kiruv worker who must deal with the issues of rebuffing, admitting or pursuing a candidate for gerus. There is a lot to be said on that, but it's all moot as far as EJF's own programs.

This is indeed old ground and unfortunately your answers have not satisfactorily answered these questions. As has been pointed out there is an significant dissonance between what Rabbi Tropper claims he is doing and what other evidence describes.

On that point, I must add that although you write I was also given the astonishing response of "Why is it prohibited", you wrote above that you agreed that there was no prohibition!

Here it is:

In a recent intensive exchange of e-mails, I asked Rav Tropper the halachic rulings of Rav Moshe Feinstein he claims as the basis for EJF’s activities. His response was, “Why do you think it is prohibited?” This is an astounding justification for a radical break with the past. While in fact it is not explicitly prohibited – this radical innovation of spending millions of dollars to convince non‑Jews to convert presents serious dangers to the Jewish people. It requires acceptance or rejection through scholarly discussion in peer-reviewed responsa - as innovations have been justified in the past.

Daniel Eidensohn Ph.D.

Now, I agree with your point that those who reach out to gentiles in intermarriages spouses [not EJF, not EJF] need to explain what seems to be a radical innovation. But you yourself admit that they are not doing away with an explicit prohibition. That is a valid subject for discussion. Is an intermarried gentile better than a stam goy in this respect, or perhaps worse, as I suspect the Bedatz holds. Please call Rav Reuven Feinstein to discuss this [and other matters] with him. Please don't answer that you demand a written teshuvah and until he sends one out, you will not go to him. Please don't let it be a situation of "Hatziree ein biGilad, im rofei ein sham."

I can’t believe a yeshiva educated Orthodox Jew would be making the above statement. Since when are major changes in conversion so lightly justified? I cited Rav Chaim Ozer and Rav Moshe Feinstein and Rav Menashe Klein strongly disapproving of this procedure – even though there is no explicit issur. Similarly there are other poskim such as the Tzitz Eliezar who object to it. Again your insistence that EJF is not proselytizing is belied by the material I have collected on my blog as well as the interview Rabbi Tropper gave to Mishpacha magazine. I don’t see that it is appropriate for me to be the intermediate between Rav Reuven Feinstein and the Bedatz. Why can’t Rav Reuven Feinstein – who is the official director of EJF – simply write a response and send it to the Bedatz?

Now, you have an excellent point in that quote in Hebrew Mishpocha. Could you please provide the Hebrew original before I pursue that further? I have covered several points here, directly or indirectly, and I hope that helps you and others understand EJF's stance, at least to the degree that I understand it.

Kol tuv, amicusEJF

I am surprised that you can’t get a copy from Rabbi Tropper. Again I do not find your explanation – and it is just your explanation not that of Rabbi Tropper – satisfactory. If R’ Tropper can’t provide the text I will – bli neder- scan the material.

Tropper's continued smear campaign

I recently reported a blatant lie about me that appeared on R' Tropper's Blog here

"According to a trusted source, Rav Sternbuch, shlit”a was asked if he approves of the blog which is critical of EJF. His response was negative."

The original comment was found here. I protested this outright lie here Even Roni - Tropper's defender on this Blog - called up Rav Sternbuch and was told that the statement was not true. The comment has since mysteriously disappeared from Tropper's blog - but there was no acknowledgment that it was a lie or an apology for the slander. Tropper obviously can't claim that no one knew he was referring to me - because everyone knows that I am the only one who has a close association with Rav Sternbuch who opposes EJF and has a blog dealing with EJF. The reason that I am bringing up this issue again is because Tropper and his associates have continued to spread this lie. In fact a well known figure in kiruv recently criticized me for going against Rav Sternbuch's wishes by attacking Tropper. I am well aware that this slander will backfire against Tropper because people will eventually find out that it is not true. However there is an elementary requirement of derech eretz that even if Tropper genuinely thought what he wrote was true - he is required to publicly apologize once he found it was not true. He has not apologized for this or for the absurd claim that I am motivated to criticize him entirely because I am the chief supporter of R' Slifkin.

Berachos (31b): R. Eleazar said: From this we learn that one who is suspected wrongfully must clear himself. Count not thy handmaid for a daughter of Belial; a man who says the Tefillah when drunk is like one who serves idols. It is written here, Count not thy handmaid for a daughter of Belial, and it is written elsewhere, Certain sons of Belial have gone forth from the midst of thee. Just as there the term is used in connection with idolatry, so here. Then Eli answered and said, Go in Peace. R. Eleazar said: From this we learn that one who suspects his neighbour of a fault which he has not committed must beg his pardon; nay more, he must bless him, as it says, And the God of Israel grant thy petition

Who is behind Eternal Jewish Family?

Recipients and Publicity wrote:

Dear anonymous and "badatz needs to relax":

The EJF would agree 100% that "Non Halachic conversions to permit intermarriage is the one issue that threatens world Jewry more than anything in our generation" - but it is just that they have a very radical NON-HALACHIC (and perhaps even anti-halachic) plan of how to solve the problem.

Here are some central problems with EJF:

It is the brainchild of and supported by Dr. Thomas (Tom) Kaplan one of Rabbi Leib Tropper's talmidim. Described by the New York Times as a "rare-minerals magnate" he is the one who controls Rabbi Tropper and the EJF (altho Rabbi Tropper probably thinks otherwise) as they say in Yiddish: "der vos hot dem matbe'ah hot di de'ah" which in English would be "who who pays the piper calls the tune"!

See this short bio to understand who is the power that controls EJF and Rabbi Tropper, from
http://www.leorenergy.com/t_kaplan_management.php

"LEOR ENERGY: MANAGEMENT TEAM:

Tom Kaplan Chairman of the Board

Thomas S. Kaplan, Co-Founder, has served as Leor’s Chairman of the Board since the company’s inception. After obtaining a doctorate in History, Mr. Kaplan began his career as an advisor to hedge funds in the field of strategic forecasting, applying long-term historical analysis to financial markets. In 1993, he and his wife Daphne founded Apex Silver Mines as a venture capital start-up with a view to capitalizing on the improving supply/demand fundamentals of the metal. In 1996, the company’s geologists discovered San Cristobal, the world’s largest open-pit silver deposit. As Chief Executive Officer and then Chairman, Mr. Kaplan and his colleagues at Apex guided the company through its public offering in 1997 and the subsequent financings required to finance and develop San Cristobal, enabling Apex to emerge as one of the industry’s premier silver/zinc/lead development companies. He retired from Apex Silver at the end of 2004, leaving the company with an enterprise value in excess of $1 billion. Having founded and financed a number of companies focused on natural resources, including Leor, Mr. Kaplan’s family has extensive interests in public and private companies involved with silver and base metals in Latin America, platinum and gold throughout the United States, Africa and Asia, water rights in Europe, as well as energy production in the United States. Mr. Kaplan is actively involved in numerous philanthropic activities in the United States and the developing world.

Educated in Switzerland and England, Mr. Kaplan holds a B.A., M.A. and Ph.D degrees in History from Oxford University."

See also the Wikipedia article at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leor_Energy

That describes more of Kaplan's business and very importantly that:

"Thomas S. Kaplan and Guma L. Aguiar co-founded the company jointly in 2003. Kaplan, Aguiar's uncle, took the role of Chairman, a position he had previously held at Apex Silver Mines Inc. before resigning in 2003. Aguiar serves as the CEO and Vice Chairman of Leor and manages most of the day-to day activities of the business."

Who is this "Guma L. Aguiar" nephew of Mr. Kaplan? and since he is so involved with Mr Kaplan and runs his business how do we know that he is also not running the show at EJF? while Dr. Kaplan runs around looking for more business, giving awards and trying to change the world of Orthodox Judaism to make it more receptive and streamlined to accepting converts in the name of "kiruv" and "stricter halachic guidelines" for batei din.

Indeed, is "Guma L. Aguiar" even Jewish? because it is well known that one of the main reasons that Kaplan is behind the EJF push is because Rabbi Tropper helped him get a geirus for one of his close relatives. All this needs explanation, because now EJF, funded by the Lillian Jean Kpalan Foundation, which is basically the money that is set aside from the businesses of Dr. Tom Kaplan and his "CEO and Vice Chairman" nephew Guma L. Aguiar to act as if they are "Bais Hillel" taking on the tough "Bais Shammai" of the BADATZ.

Since when is a corporation and a philanthropy in any way a halachic body like a beis din?

Now Dr. Thomas (Tom) Kaplan (Ph.D)is obviously a vey brilliant and innovative man who has demonstrated his ability to think way "out of the box" and he does not just make billions of dollars he also gives much away to various causes that have nothing to do with Torah mostly through the "Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation" which basically the only source of funding for the EJF.

It must be VERY CLEARLY understood that the Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation is NOT a religious institution. It is devoted to supporting all sorts of causes, as a simple search on the web for "Thomas S. Kaplan" and "Lillian Jean Kaplan Foundation" will show, such as huge prizes and endowments for important medical research and achievements, discoveries, wild life preservation.

Dr. Kaplan naturally spends on art, see this quote from the New York Times (October 19, 2006)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/19/garden/19auction.html

" 'It’s Miami — what can I tell you?' said Cristina Grajales, a dealer and consultant who exhibited there last year. 'People are writing million-dollar checks in their flipflops.' She was thrilled with the crowd — contemporary art collectors picking up fashionable collectible modern furniture — and she will be back this year. Ms. Grajales is also the person who bought the Carlo Mollino table at Christie’s last year for a client for $3.824 million — a record many times over for a piece of modern furniture. She advises Thomas S. Kaplan, a 43-year-old rare-minerals magnate for whom she bought the table, on design purchases. Mr. Kaplan also picked up a pair of Jean Prouvé doors at Sotheby’s in 2004, for $680,000, which held the record at auction for postwar 20th century design until he broke it in 2005."

So if Tom Kaplan can drop $3.824 MILLION to buy a table and $680,000 for doors (yes, yes, they are works of art, but a table is a table, and a door is a door) therefore it's bubkes mit mandlen for him to drop a couple of million dollars every year for impoverished yungeleit in kiruv and rabbonim looking for nedovas to come hear the EJF ideas about how to solve Klal Yisroel's woes.

That is why it must be clearly understood by all and known to all that the EJF is not an independently created organization but it part of something larger and its funding and direction is guided by a very talented young billionare, who also happens to be a talmid of Rav Tropper shlita (not bad kiruv!)

The EJF has many rabbis who have come to its conventions and meetings and they obviously have seen that it has a potential to help spouses of Jews who wish to become geirei tzedek, but it is because EJF wishes to function more like a corporate entity bullying and gobbling up the powers of smaller entities (meaning ALL batei din) that it has met so much resistance.

The Modern Orthodox rabbinate was at first intrigued by EJF, but after it became clear that EJF was setting up a "my or the highway" standard based on only one kind of rules coming from Charedi rabbis and batei din handpicked and approved by Rabbi Tropper alone that they balked, and especially after Rav Nochum Eisenstein of the Beis Din LeInyanei Giur in Israel told them that they would be posul to be dayanim in any case.

It is hard to see how any rov can come to America, insult all the RCA rabbis and then expect them to be mekabel his da'as. So forget about the Modern Orthodox joining in anyhting the EJF does, as if there was even a chance!

So rather than help matters, the EJF has actually made matters worse by pushing the Modern Orthodox rabbinate against the wall by questioning their emunah, which will now only encourgae them to continue with the conversions thorough their own RCA systems. To their credit they are trying to clean up their act as well, but only internally, they will have nothing to do with EJF, Rabbi Tropper or Rav Eisenstein.

And now, the BADATZ has taken a good strong look at the situation, and come down like a ton of bricks on the EJF for good reasons, that no entity can suddenly sit down out of the blue and say "ich bin du" and wave flags, make conventions, print colorful ads and pay millions to promote itself, and now claiming to do "kiruv" as well when it is just a hare-brained scheme to start with.

Dr. Tom needs to learn that you cannot manipulate halachic policy and direction like one manipulates financial markets or corporations and that in essenec is what the BADATZ is saying, please leave these inyonim to the relevant batei din, and while the system may be in need of improvement, the solution of sheperding and ENCOURAGING potential geirim is very dangerous and essentially anti-halachic because Judaism does not seek nor encourage geirim no matter what the situation.

If there are Jews in the world who have these problems they must take it up with their "local Orthodox rabbis" who will then decide what to do and if it is worthy of being "referred to a local reliable beis din".

Now one may ask how does anyone know if a beis din is reliable or if their conversions will be accepted? The answer is very simple: It is no different to any situation in Yiddishkeit. How does one know if the meat we eat on Shabbos is not treif? How do we know if the marriages and kiddushin rabbis perform are valid? How does anyone know if a get from any beis din is kosher and acceptable to another beis din? How does one check the yichus of a Jew? etc etc and the answers are that it's not done by setting up one organization.

In American Kashrus there is the OU, but Chasidim do not accept it and have their own multiple shechitas and hechsherim. There is no one single beis din in America that automatically accepts the authority of other batei din. This is also based on ideology. Chabad has its own derech and thus has its own batei din and hechshrim that would not be accepted by some Chasidim and Litvaks. Satmar will not accept a get done by even the most reliable RCA beis din.

So does that mean that if some well-meaning philanthropist wishes to "solve" these seeming "contradictions" and problems and is willing to throw millions into the pot to do so, that the whole world of different batei din have to stop, salute him, and do just as his rabbi says simply because he has gotten some rosh yeshivas (who by the way never sit on batei din) and many rabbonim more noted as darshonim and some local poskim who are not full time dayanim on batei din, to come for a free weekend of speeches and food?

As Eretz Yisroel now holds almost half the world's Jews and is probably now the center of frum life, its power increases inside Eretz Yisroel and that is why the Beis Din LeInyonei Giur is good if any problems with giur come up inside Israel, but they still cannot control what batei din do in chutz la'aretz, just as the Israeli chief rabbinate cannot control any of the RCA or Mizrachi rabbis. We have still have not reached the Acharis HaYomim for that to happen!

R' Tropper - is he good for the Jews?

While we have had some discussions about the validity of R' Tropper's approach, we have not really focused on the consequences.

R' Tropper is using geirus as a tool in kiruv. When he finds that a baal teshuva is stuck because he is married to a non-Jew he switches hats and works to have the non-Jew become a Jew. Thus he reasons it is a win win situation. The Jew becomes fully observant and his wife becomes Jewish. Their children now will add to the Jewish population instead of destroying it. The only down side, he reasons, is that the age old practice of not proselytizing needs to be bent a bit. Any problems with this he reasons are made up for by requiring the convert to adopt an Orthodox life style. Seem like a nice neat package. Why should anyone be upset with it.

Let us list the reasons.

1) He has removed the age old stigma to intermarriage. There is absolutely no consequences of intermarriage. If you ever want to legitimate it he is standing there with open arms. Of course since not all Jews want to be Orthodox - therefore he contributes to the intermarriage rate by allowing everyone to chose a non-Jewish partner without the slightest guilt or consequence. Consequences unknown. But we can reasonably assume that more Jews will intermarry with R' Tropper looking the other way - then will return to Judaism with a converted bride.

2) Let's assume that not everyone that R' Tropper converts will stay frum. Because he has such high standards and is makpid on kabbalos mitzvos - all of his converts will definitely become Jews. However the statistics from the past tell us that at least half will back slide. They will then become irreligious Jews. If he wasn't so meticulous then when the convert goes back they were never Jewish in the first place. If he wasn't so meticulous then the back sliding converts will be genuine non-Jews.

3) The consequences of having converts who are genuine Jews and were married in a genuine marriage - but who give up observance is very simple - mamzerim. Rav Moshe solved the mamzerus problem from the Reform and Conservative by saying their marriages were non valid. Similarly their converts are not valid. Not so R'Tropper's converts. However everyone of R' Tropper's converts is a potential producer of mamzerim.

4) An additional consequences in back sliding will be on the communities and families.

This is similar to the statement about Sedom. They had horrible laws - which weren't enforced until an honest judge Lot came along. It is specifically because he is makpid on keeping the laws that he is causing problems.

In sum. For R' Tropper to come along and introduce a change in the dynamic of the Jewish community he needs to show that what he is doing is beneficial. It is not enough to say that when he converts people they were frum. Rav Chaim Ozer had such a view and then 20 years later radically altered it to say that a decent beis din should not do conversions. Similarly Rav Moshe Feinstein knew all the hetirim but personally had nothing to do with geirus. What are the two, five and ten years statistics on Rabbi Troppers' converts. What is their impact on marriage and children?

EJF: Kiruv or Geirus?/ RaP

RaP:wrote:

EJF is now going all out in its alliances with Kiruv organizations as is evident from its scheduled events from November 2009 to May 2010, (as of Nov 10, 2009). The point to note is that almost all these events are being set up and run on a normal basis by the kiruv organizations themselves who do this constantly as part of their programming and scheduling of events to "reach out" to new students and educate them in Yiddishkeit as they try to mekarev them to full Torah observance. But this cannot explain or excuse EJF from sticking out like a sore thumb and a black sheep because EJF is NOT and has NEVER been a kiruv organization. It has always trumpeted its goal of helping couples get conversions for gentiles where one partner is hitched to a gentile and help the gentile partner become an EJF-style ultra charedi convert to Judaism under Rabbi Tropper's authority and supervision forevermore. In this regard EJF has always had a controversial proselytizing agenda by reaching out to GENTILES that is in a direct conflict of interest with pure kiruv where the agenda is to reach out to JEWS and make them more Torah observant. Obviously something has gone horribly wrong as EJF has managed to penetrate kiruv organizations and compromise them at a time when they need hard cash to keep going something that Tropper can provide through the good graces of Tom Kaplan but which creates more problems than it solves in the long run. Simply put: WHO LEADS THIS ENTIRE EFFORT, EJF WITH ITS UNABASHED PROSELYTIZING AGENDA OR THE OUTREACH ORGANIZATIONS WITH THEIR PURE KIRUV AGENDA?:

For November 2009:http://www.eternaljewishfamily.org/site/events/
For December 2009:http://www.eternaljewishfamily.org/site/events/2009/12/
For January 2010: http://www.eternaljewishfamily.org/site/events/2010/01/
For February 2010:http://www.eternaljewishfamily.org/site/events/2010/02/
For March 2010:http://www.eternaljewishfamily.org/site/events/2010/03/
For April 2010:http://www.eternaljewishfamily.org/site/events/2010/04/

Kiruv for non-Jews with Jewish Identity II

I am raising an issue of great importance for the future of the Jewish people. There seems to have been a major revolution in the last few years in the approach to dealing with both intermarriage and the non-Jewish children of intermarriage - and yet very few rabbonim seem aware of it. My purpose in writing the following is to provide intelligent discussion of these issues as well as to establish a literature that can be utilized by others. As Rav Sternbuch has noted - halacha depends upon accurate written discussions of issues that can be analyzed and debated. A statement by a rav - no matter how big - which doesn't provide the critical issue of context and sources is very problematic for use by others.

The issue was raised one Shabbos when I received some guests sent by a well known kiruv organization. In the course of discussing how each one of our guests had come to be interested in this particular program - the guest who was most interested in Yiddishkeit stated. "I was raised as a Methodist because my mother is a Methodist - but I am Jewish because my father is Jewish." To put it mildly I was shocked - how could this obvious fact not have been checked prior to admitting this young man into the program. The program is involved in bringing Jews with no Jewish education to Israel where there have a great time - and also learn about Yiddishkeit. The expenses of the participants are heavily subsidized by wealthy benefactors. I said nothing but after Shabbos I called the director to inform him of the problem. His response was, "We know that he is not Jewish but we were told to accept him since he has a Jewish identity."

In the subsequent months I have mentioned this to various rabbonim - who have all expressed shock that this is officially sanctioned. No one knew any teshuvos written on the subject which justify this approach. However I have found that this is not simply a quirk with one kiruv organization - it represents a major conflict between different kiruv organizations. The big money seems to be going in the direction of kiruv for non-Jews (with some kind of Jewish identity) with the hope of converting them. A friend of mine told me that on three separate occasions he was sent guests for Shabbos from a Russian kiruv program here in Jerusalem and found out that they were all non-Jews. When he complained, the program simply stopped sending him guests.

Similarly there has been a major effort to actively pursue intermarried couples and using various techniques - representive of the best American marketing techniques - convince the non-Jewish spouse to convert. This latter approach is spearheaded by R' Leib Tropper of Yeshiva Kol Yaakov in Monsey. See his website [Eternal Jewish Family - Convert to Judaism, Jewish Conversion, Universally Accepted Halachic Conversions for Intermarried Couples ] - especially the videos of testimonials from satisfied customers. It has the official backing of Rav Eliyashiv, Rav Dovid Feinstein, Rav Reuven Feinstein as well as many others important rabbis. I have not been able to locate any written teshuvos dealing with this either - even though it also represents a major change in the traditional approach to this issue.

I mentioned this information to Rav Moshe Sternbuch who found my revelations disturbing and he wrote a letter which he asked me to translate and distribute. He personally read and approved the translation. The original letter and its translation can be found at the following links.

http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/faxes/RSternbuch_KiruvNonJew_Aug07_heb.pdf
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/faxes/RSternbuch_KiruvNonJew_Aug07_eng.pdf

Some of the discussion aroused already can be found at the following link

http://rabbisedley.blogspot.com/2007/08/kiruv-for-non-jews.html
http://haemtza.blogspot.com/2007/08/patrilineal-descent-and-conversion.html

One of the assertions being made is that Rav Moshe Feinstein has approved kiruv for non-Jews who have a Jewish identify. This assertion has been made by one of America's most widely respected poskim who was a very close talmid of Rav Moshe who said it was an oral psak that he received. I have combed the Igros Moshe and there is no support for this in the Igros Moshe. However recently I was challenged by a certain rosh yeshiva who asserted that what the hetar for this type of kiruv is inherent in the clearly stated teshuva of Reb Moshe regarding the Falashas. I rechecked this teshuva and - contrary to my challenger - it seems clear that this teshuva not only does not support this assertion but seems to directly contradict it. My translation of the teshuva is as follows:

Igros Moshe Y.D. IV. #41 page 271

After much investigation it appears that if the Falashas are not

given a Jewish education they will deteriorate even more and will

refuse to convert and this can possibly cause – G‑d forbid!

–intermarriage between Jews and the Falashas. Therefore l’maaseh

they should be given a Jewish education and be influenced through
this education to convert as they need to do - as I have written to
your brother R’ Mordechai Tendler. One should not be concerned by
the fact that we are teaching Torah to people whose status as Jews
is in doubt. Since it is actually possible that they are Jews and
since there is a reason for this education - it would appear there
is no prohibition to teach them Torah. But you should not teach them
false halachos - an act which itself is prohibited. In other words,
don’t tell them that we in fact view them as definitely Jewish.
Instead tell them that while in fact there is a doubt about their
status as Jews nevertheless we are prepared to educate them in G‑d’s

Torah and His mitzvos. Please note that until they are actually
converted they are not to be considered as definitely Jewish even in

regards to counting them as part of a minyan or to receive an aliya
to the Torah. They are not to be shamed or embarrassed but on the
other hand they should not be deceived with false flattery. On the
other hand l’chumra they are required to keep all the mitzvos
because maybe they are in fact genuine Jews.

Reb Moshe is acknowledging the danger of intermarriage from a non-Jew who views himself as Jewish. However he allows the teaching of Torah only because the person is a "questionable Jew". It follows that if the person is definitely not Jewish he would not have given this heter. Otherwise Reb Moshe would have simply said "any non-Jew who has a Jewish identity should be educated in Torah and converted".

Daniel Eidensohn

A student of Tropper defends his teacher

I was given permission by the sender to publish this anonymously - unedited - to provide understanding of the other side.
====================================

I wanted to thank you being a voice of reason in our current world where, unfortunately, it becomes more popular to align against our Rabbaim than to actually consider the consequences.

 A little about me: I am a Talmud of Rabbi Tropper, having learned in his Yeshiva for over 5 years.  The Rosh Yeshiva IS a very affectionate person who is very passionate about Torah values, Ahavas Yisroel and Kiruv. The tests on a Kiruv professional’s emunah and character are obvious. It is very, very easy to upkeep high standards living in a large Jewish community. Remove that community to be in a position of constant bombardment from secular values and viewpoints, and anyone can be vulnerable.  I’ve heard Rabbaim, working far from such communities in Kiruv, bewail about how they’ve had children who became Korbanos because of it …

 However, I have to say that all the collective interactions and experiences I’ve ever had with the Rosh Yeshiva tell me he is absolutely 1000% innocent of all these allegations. He has always maintained his emunah and character. What’s more is that he is a Talmud Chacham, and an uncompromising subscriber to Daas Torah.

 I noticed some responses to your blog concluded that, since he stepped down from EJF, he must be guilty.  This flaw is noted in the Chofetz Chaim’s Hilchos Loshon Harah in the case of one being defamed in public and remains silent.  The din, of course, is that the victim’s silence gives absolutely no basis to conclude that he/she is guilty.  Rabbi Tropper simply does not want to make matters worse for himself and his family, and apparently, he has made some very powerful enemies.

 As for the alleged  audio footage: audio technology nowadays can be edited right up to each millisecond.

 It is my hope that those who wish to harm him see their efforts for what they are and do Tseuvah, and that Rabbi Tropper’s name be vindicated.

 Again,
thank you.

Friend of EJF unofficially responds. Criticizes "supermarket tabloid style" comments on blog

amicusEJF wrote:


Dear R' Eidensohn, shlita,

If anyone from EJF gives you an orange you can be sure that it will be a healthful fruit, free of any chashash or orlah, tevel or sheviis, and given to you in the respectful spirit of hameivi doron l'talmid chacham.

That said, I disagree with your decision to allow the carmella corleone post. I was also very disappointed with your decision to post that negative piece on Dr. Kaplan. I was very turned off from that and you may have noticed that I have barely commented since then. I believe that once you allow such supermarket tabloid style discussion, you have lowered the level of the blog to where many Jewish blogs are: in the gutter.

You say: Why does EJF rely on anonymous spokesmen? ... In other words are these individuals actual spokesmen who are in fact representing Rabbi Tropper - but he doesn't want their identity revealed?

Speaking for myself, while I am a friend of EJF, and a volunteer who tries to help out with some things, R' Tropper has not sent me as a spokesman. Quite the opposite, he has questioned the usefulness of commenting on blogs and trying to correct errors and misimpressions on a blog. Since I have followed your [R' Eidensohn's] work over some years [Yad Moshe, Yad Yisroel, Daas Torah, many Avodah forum postings], I have a great respect for you. I thought that, even though this is a blog, it is different: It is R' Eidensohn's blog. It may be a house in a slummy neighborhood, but it is a talmid chacham's house.

But then I saw that long innuendo-filled post against Dr. Kaplan, and I said to myself: Maybe, R' Tropper was right. And as I type these words in the "Leave your comment" box just to the left of carmella corleone's miasmic jeers, I don't know if I will comment here too much longer. And that is a shame, because I think there is value in answering sincere questions about EJF and in learning from valid criticisms.

So let's return, in the meantime, to your post. You write: Or are they self-appointed representatives because Rabbi Tropper doesn't feel the need to explain the true nature of his operations... why doesn't Rabbi Tropper want to clarify and justify what he is doing?

Well, clarify and justify to whom? To this blog? As explained above, he questions the utility of that, and with carmella on my screen, I can't say he's wrong.

To the Bedatz? There I think you have a good point. If he were seeking the Bedatz's haskomah, then it would be incumbent upon him to clarify and justify his operations to their satisfaction. [I have no idea if that was ever attempted, but judging from what you have written, I would assume not.] On the other hand, if the Bedatz wants to publish an opinion on the EJF, I would suggest that, as part of their derishah and chakira, they or their people would call up talmidei chachamim who are heavily involved with EJF's operations, such as Rav Reuven Feinstein or Rav Shmiel Eliezer Stern of Rav Wosner's Beis Din, to understand what the clarifications and justifications are. This may have happened, I don't know. They may have not been satisfied with these and decided to oppose EJF. That is their prerogative.

To clarify and justify to the public at large? Well, that's exactly what I am trying to do here unofficially. Officially, they have printed a two-page spread in Hamodia and reprinted it in the Jewish Press. Also, they are working on redoing their website. My hope is that, one day, you should be able to find the clarifications and justifications you seek over there. But that two page spread was important. I suggest that you make a pdf file of it and make it available here.

You write about: to pursue or activiely persuade someone to convert and spending millions of dollars to persuade the nonJewish spouse to convert.

This is old ground. I have already written that these are moot points since EJF is not the first contact for gerus candidates. EJF deals only with referrals. Call them up and pretend to be a goy wishing to convert. They will send you to a local Rav. It is the local Rav or kiruv worker who must deal with the issues of rebuffing, admitting or pursuing a candidate for gerus. There is a lot to be said on that, but it's all moot as far as EJF's own programs.

On that point, I must add that although you write I was also given the astonishing response of "Why is it prohibited", you wrote above that you agreed that there was no prohibition!

Here it is:
In a recent intensive exchange of e-mails, I asked Rav Tropper the halachic rulings of Rav Moshe Feinstein he claims as the basis for EJF’s activities. His response was, “Why do you think it is prohibited?” This is an astounding justification for a radical break with the past. While in fact it is not explicitly prohibited – this radical innovation of spending millions of dollars to convince non‑Jews to convert presents serious dangers to the Jewish people. It requires acceptance or rejection through scholarly discussion in peer-reviewed responsa - as innovations have been justified in the past.

Daniel Eidensohn Ph.D.

Now, I agree with your point that those who reach out to gentiles in intermarriages spouses [not EJF, not EJF] need to explain what seems to be a radical innovation. But you yourself admit that they are not doing away with an explicit prohibition. That is a valid subject for discussion. Is an intermarried gentile better than a stam goy in this respect, or perhaps worse, as I suspect the Bedatz holds. Please call Rav Reuven Feinstein to discuss this [and other matters] with him. Please don't answer that you demand a written teshuvah and until he sends one out, you will not go to him. Please don't let it be a situation of "Hatziree ein biGilad, im rofei ein sham."

Now, you have an excellent point in that quote in Hebrew Mishpocha. Could you please provide the Hebrew original before I pursue that further?

I have covered several points here, directly or indirectly, and I hope that helps you and others understand EJF's stance, at least to the degree that I understand it.

Kol tuv,

amicusEJF