Wednesday, January 5, 2022
Insistence on only Torah law would destroy society
Rashba - Get can not be forced
שו"ת הרשב"א חלק ז סימן תיד
+ע' לעיל בחלק ששי סי' ע"ב ומה שרמזתי שם+ דיני מורדת האומרת מאיס עלי והטוענת על בעלה שאינו יכול דע כי המורדת שדברו בה חכמים היא המונעת את בעלה מתשמיש המטה וב"ד שולחין לה ושואלין אותה מפני מה מרדה ואם אמרה מפני שאני רוצה לצערו מתרין בה שאם תעמוד במרדה תפסיד כל כתובתה ואפי' אם היתה של אלף מנה ואם לא חזרה בה מכריזין עליה ביום השבת בכל בתי כנסיות ובכל המדרשות ואומרים כך. הוו יודעים שפלניתא מרדה על בעלה ואם חזרה בה מוטב ואם לאו מכריזים עליה פעם שנית ביום שבת שני וכן עושין שבת שלישי וכן שבת רביעי ואחר אותן ד' שבתות אם לא חזרה בה שולחים לה הבית דין עוד ומזהירין אותה שאם תעמוד במרדה ולא תחזור בה מיד מפסידין כל כתובתה מיד ואפי' חזרה בה לאחר מיכן אין לה כתובתה כלל מאחר שלא רצתה לחזור בה כשהיו ב"ד מזהירין אותה ומ"מ לא הפסידה מנכסי מלוג שלה כלום אבל כל מה שכתב לה בעלה ושהוסיף לה בכתובתה או נתן לה תכשיטין ובגדים וכיוצא בהן מוציאין ממנה ונותנין לו ואפי' אם תפשה היא כלום מן הבגדים והתכשיטים שהכניסה לו בנדונייתא מוציאין ממנה ונותנין לו ואעפ"י שלא כתב כן הרמב"ם ז"ל ואם רצה הבעל לגרש אותה תוך אותן ד' שבתות אם רצה לגרש מגרש ואם רצה להשהותה משהה ובלבד שלא יבא עליה אפי' רצתה לחזור עמו עד שיכתוב לה כתובה אחרת כדין אלמנה לפי שאסור לשהות עם אשתו בלא כתובה אפי' שעה אחת זהו דין המורדת. והאומרת בעינא ליה ומצערנא ליה. אבל האומרת מאיס עלי בית דין מבקשים ממנה שתהא נותנת דעתה עליו ותתפייס לו ואם לא רצתה מפני שלבה אונסה שלא תתפייס לו אין מכריחין אותה לעמוד אצלו לשמשו ואין מכריזין עליה כלל אבל ממתינין לה י"ב חדש ואם +נדצ"ל לא+ חזרה בה תוך י"ב חדש הפסידה כתובתה וכל נדוניתה וכל שכן מה שנתן לה ומה שהוסיף לה מדעתו בכתובתה ואם רצה מוציא אותה בגט לאחר י"ב חדש ויוצאה בלא כלום אבל עדיין בידה או ביד הבעל מן הבגדים והתכשיטין שהכניסה לו בנדוניתא וקדמה היא ותפסה אותם אין מוציאין אותם מידה זהו כשגרשה הבעל לאחר י"ב חדש ואם גרשה תוך י"ב חדש נותן כל כתובתה אבל מה שהוסיף לה משלו אינה נוטלת מהן כלום שלא כתב ולא נתן לה משלו על מנת שתקח ותצא ממנו ותתנאה בהם בפני בעל אחר. וכל אותן י"ב חדש שאמרנו שמשהין אותה אינה אוכלת משל בעל כלום ולעולם אין כופין את הבעל לגרש אלא רצה לגרש יגרש ואם לא רצה לא יגרש ואף על פי שלא כתב כן הר"ם במז"ל זהו דין האומרת מאיס עלי. והטוענת על בעלה שאינו יכול והיא רוצה להתגרש ממנו מחמת כך שואלין ממנה ב"ד ואומרין לה מה שאמרת שאינו יכול אם אומרת שהוא משמש אבל אינו יורה כחץ אינה נאמנת אבל האשה שאמרה על בעלה שאינו יכול כלל נאמנת ומכל מקום ב"ד באין עליה דרך בקשה ואומ' לה תני דעתיך על בעליך שמא מתוך איבה אין אתם נזקקים. ונכנסים לחדר ועושין להם סעודה שמא מתוך כך יתנו דעתם זה על זה ואם היא אינה רוצה ואינה שומעת להם בכך אלא שרוצה להתגרש מפני טענה זו מבקשים מן הבעל לגרש ואם לא רצה כופין אותו ליתן כתובה אבל אין כופין אותו ליתן גט אלא יכולין ב"ד לאיים עליו בדברים ובלבד שלא ינדוהו ולא יבזוהו ולא יצערו אותו בגופו. ויש מגדולי רבני צרפת ז"ל שהורו שאפי' דין זה שאנו דנין שמבקשין מן הבעל לגרש ואם לא רצה כופין אותו ליתן כתובה כמו שאמרנו לא נאמרו דברים אלא כשהיא אינה תובעת גירושין ואינה מזכרת פרעון כתובה אבל אם אמרה אינו יכול לשמש על כן אני רוצה שיגרש אותי ויתן לי כתובתי בזו אינה נאמנת ואין שומעין לה כלום דכיון שהזכירה פרעון הכתובה אנו חוששין שמא עיניה נתנה באחר ועל כן היא מעיזה פניה בפני בעלה ותובעת כתובתה כדי שתתנשא באותו ממון לאותו שנתנה בו עיניה ולענין כתובתה שאמרו שנותן לה מה שהכניסה לו בנדונייתא ומנה ומאתים אבל תוספת אינה גובה כלל ואפילו תפסה מוציאין ממנה ונותנין לה /לו/ שלא כתב לה על מנת שתקח ותתן לבעל אחר:
Pure Torah law vs. pragmatic "weeding out the thorns" - BM 83b
Rav Sternbuch told me that the welfare of the child is first priority. Thus a community focused on protecting the innocent focuses on "not to stand idly by the blood of your fellow man." We don't sacrifice a child to preserve the image of the community. We don't sacrifice a child to preserve the financial well being of a yeshiva. We don't sacrifice a child to preserve rabbinic authority. That theoretically should be agreed to by everyone - but it isn't. The ones who feel that the community image is first priority, or we must be 100% sure that the innocent aren't slandered or that the welfare of the family of the abuser is first - will look at the situation differently.
Rav Sternbuch also told me that the first task of a posek is to establish the fact of what is happening. Is a child being threatened or harmed? Who is apparently the perpetrator? Only after the facts are gathered do you go to the Shulchan Aruch and see what the Torah allows you to do in that particular case. The obligation to investigate is required even if the posek/menahel/parent/neighbor needs to listen to rumor and lashon harah to clarify the matter. Those who focus on the image of the community - work the other way. They have a high barrier that much be passed before they get involved. 1) Are there proper witnesses - if not nothing can be done. 2) Is there a crime that is punishable by the Torah? 3) Secular government can't be used if the punishment is greater than that prescribed by the Torah. 4) Using social agencies and the police constitute mesira. 5) use of secular courts is prohibited
However if you accept that protecting the child is first priority a number of apparent halachic problems arise. 1) Most of the time there are not proper witnesses according to the Torah which requires 2 frum adult males. Those whose prime value is protecting the child utilize the Rema that permits testimony of women and children in situations where men are not found. Those who focus on the image of the community or avoidance of involvement with secular government insist that the strict Torah law be followed and thus since most of the time there are not proper witnesses - their hands are tied which allows them to do nothing while following the laws of the Torah. 2) In addition the advocates for children use the concept of rodef which removes the necessity of formal witnesses and allows the use of circumstantial evidence. Rodef is non-judicial - it simply means you can protect yourself if you think you are threatened or someone else is threatened. However the Rav M. Klein - who is a clear example of following Torah law to do nothing - objected to this approach because he said minimal force is not used to stop the rodef - but rather the police are called. In fact Gedolim such as Rav Eliashiv are well aware that the community is often not effective in stopping a molester and therefore permit the police be called in and that is in fact the minimum force needed to protect the child. 3) However the concept of Rodef has significant limitations. It is useful to stop perpetrators or suspected perpetrators only when it involves a sin punishable by capital punishment - such as sodomy. But rape of little girls is not such a crime. Rav Eliashiv gets around that objection by categorizing child abuse as pikuach nefesh - which is an implicit acknowledgement of the view of mental health professionals. Therefore the victim is to be saved even when there rodef would normally not apply because of the type of sin or lack of physical harm. (The Tzitz Eliezar results to the use of the Rambam - about one who torments the maases for a heter in this case - see Shulchan Aruch C.M. 388) However the ones defending the community image say - there is no pikuach nefesh because they say an increase in suicide rate 20 years later amongst abuse victims doesn't constitute pikuach nefesh. They don't view psychological destruction as pikuach nefesh. 4) Mandatory reporting - it is clear from BM 83b that if reported required by secular government is obligatory and one does not have to suffer the penalties for non reporting. However those who focus on community image and rabbinical status - argue that only a rabbi can decide the complicated interaction of factors to decide to call police. The child centered advocates says that mandatory reporting can be decided by the average adult and that there is nothing in BM 83b which requires consulting with a rabbi. 5) Community image focused rabbis focus on the serious prohibition of lashon harah as described by the Chofetz Chaim with all the conditions. Rav Sternbuch has written a teshuva strongly criticizing using the prohibition of listening to lashon harah to avoid protecting the children. 6) Using the approach of self-defense rather than the judicial model of guilt or innocence enable the utilization of circumstantial evidence as well as involving the police. The community defenders insist that the community can handle the problem internally and that the prohibition of mesira and use of secular courts is too great a sin. And so the argument goes back and forth.
Consequently a very functional defense of the victim happens when these alternative Torah paths are followed. However focusing on protecting the innocent rather than focusing on the strict parameters of Torah law takes power away from the rabbis - as Rabbi Zwiebel succinctly summarized the issue.
Bava Metzia(83b): R. Eleazar, son of R. Simeon, once met an officer of the [Roman] Government who had been sent to arrest thieves, ‘How can you detect them?’ he said. ‘Are they not compared to wild beasts, of whom it is written, Therein [in the darkness] all the beasts of the forest creep forth?’ (Others say, he referred him to the verse, He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den.) ‘Maybe,’ [he continued,] ‘you take the innocent and allow the guilty to escape?’ The officer answered, ‘What shall I do? It is the King's command.’ Said the Rabbi, ‘Let me tell you what to do. Go into a tavern at the fourth hour of the day. If you see a man dozing with a cup of wine in his hand, ask what he is. If he is a learned man, [you may assume that] he has risen early to pursue his studies; if he is a day labourer he must have been up early to do his work; if his work is of the kind that is done at night, he might have been rolling thin metal. If he is none of these, he is a thief; arrest him.’ The report [of this conversation] was brought to the Court, and the order was given: ‘Let the reader of the letter become the messenger.’ R. Eleazar, son of R. Simeon, was accordingly sent for, and he proceeded to arrest the thieves. Thereupon R. Joshua, son of Karhah, sent word to him, ‘Vinegar, son of wine! How long will you deliver up the people of our God for slaughter!’ Back came the reply: ‘I weed out thorns from the vineyard.’ Whereupon R. Joshua retorted: ‘Let the owner of the vineyard himself [God] come and weed out the thorns.’
One day a fuller met him, and dubbed him: ‘Vinegar, son of wine.’ Said the Rabbi to himself, ‘Since he is so insolent, he is certainly a culprit.’ So he gave the order to his attendant: ‘Arrest him! Arrest him!’ When his anger cooled, he went after him in order to secure his release, but did not succeed. Thereupon he applied to him, [the fuller] the verse: Whoso keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from troubles. Then they hanged him, and he [R. Eleazar son of R. Simeon] stood under the gallows and wept. Said they [his disciples] to him: ‘Master, do not grieve; for he and his son seduced a betrothed maiden on the Day of Atonement.’ [On hearing this,] he laid his hand upon his heart and exclaimed: ‘Rejoice, my heart! If matters on which thou [sc. the heart] art doubtful are thus, how much more so those on which thou art certain! I am well assured that neither worms nor decay will have power over thee.’ Yet in spite of this, his conscience disquieted him. Thereupon he was given a sleeping draught, taken into a marble chamber, and had his abdomen opened, and basketsful of fat removed from him and placed in the sun during Tammuz and Ab, and yet it did not putrefy. But no fat putrefies! — [True,] no fat putrefies; nevertheless, if it contains red streaks, it does. But here, though it contained red streaks, it did not. Thereupon he applied to himself the verse, My flesh too shall dwell in safety.
A similar thing befell R. Ishmael son of R. Jose. [One day] Elijah met him and remonstrated with him: ‘How long will you deliver the people of our God to execution!’ — ‘What can I do’, he replied, ‘it is the royal decree.’ ‘Your father fled to Asia,’1 he retorted, ‘do you flee to Laodicea!’
Rashba (1:413): Medicine is anything that cures - even if not scientifically
Child Abuse - Calling Police /HaRav Eliashiv shlita II
“My view is that if the witnesses are believed by the judges, then it is permitted to punish the accused financially or physically depending upon what the judges think is appropriate to be beneficial to society. Because if we insist on doing only what is specified by Torah law and not to punish except as specified in the Torah – the world will end up destroyed. That is because the elementary rules of a functioning society will be breached and consequently it will be ruined. It is an established practice to punish those who physically harm others…Every community makes judgments in order to preserve it and this is true in every generation and every place according to what is perceived as the needs of the times. For example we see (Sanhedrin 58b) that Rav Huna, who was in Babylonia, would amputate hands as punishment. Therefore these judges you referred to who punished the accused not in accord with Torah law – if they saw the need for it to preserve the society – they have correctly acted according to the halacha. This is true when there is a specific order from the king as we see in the case of R’ Eliezar the son of R’ Shimon bar Yochai in Bava Metzia (83a).”We learn from the Rashba’s words that when action is needed for the well being of society (tikun olam), that the Jewish sages have the ability in every generation to act to preserve the society and to repair breaches – even when there isn’t a specific order from the king. The Ritva (Bava Metzia 84a) has stated that this order of the king is:
"if the king says to capture certain criminals, even though the government will judge without witnesses and warning [as required by Torah law] and there is no functioning Sanhedrin [as required by Torah law] – it is still permitted since he is acting as the agent of the king. Since it is the law of the land to execute criminals without the testimony of witnesses and warning - as it states [Shmuel 2’ 1:5-16] that Dovid killed the Amalekite ger who had acceded to Shaul’s request to kill him -the agent of the king is like him.”However according to what has been said, in a matter which is needed for the well being of society (tikun olam), it is not needed to have been ordered to act by the king [in order to act as needed]. However, it is permitted to notify the government authorities only in the case which it is certain that the accused has been sexually abusing children. Informing the authorities in such a case is clearly something for the well being of the society (tikun olam). However in a case where there is no proof that this activity is happening but it is merely a conjecture or suspicion, if we permit the calling of the authorities - not only would it not be an improvement (tikun olam) - but it would destroy society. That is because it is possible that allegations are being made solely because of some bitterness the student has against his teacher or because of some unfounded fantasy. As a result of these false allegations the accused will be placed in a situation for which death is better than life. Therefore I do not see any justification for calling the authorities in such circumstances
Reporting abuse: Did Rav Eliashiv require a psak from a rabbi to call police?
Rav Feivel Cohen states it is based on the "Rashba [which] posits that any rav or group of rabbanim who have rabbinical jurisdiction over any locale have the Torah-authorized power to go beyond the punitive measures—both corporal and financial—generally set forth in the Torah for malefactors and impose such penalties as they deem appropriate."
Rabbi Feivel Cohen deduces the basis for rabbinical authorization from the Rashba cited by Rav Eliashiv in the first letter. Rav Eliashiv in the first letter noted two sources for reporting abuse to the police. He states that the Rashba says if reporting to the police is tikkun olam [preserving the welfare of socity] one can go beyond that which the Torah permits. He cites the Ritva as indicating that reporting can also be done if there is mandated reporting (based on Bava Metzia 88). If there is no tikun olam and no mandated reporting - such as when there is no reasonable evidence - one can not go to the police.
In the latest issue of the OU's magazine, Jewish Action (Winter 5774), there is a letter to the editor from Rav Feivel Cohen in which he describes his understanding of Rav Elyashiv's opinion on reporting abuse. Jewish Action Magazine
It appears from his letter that Rav Cohen bases the requirement to get permission from a Rov to report abuse on these words of the tshuva (your translation): "We learn from the Rashba’s words that when action is needed for the well being of society (tikun olam), that the _Jewish sages_ have the ability in every generation to act to preserve the society and to repair breaches"My understanding from your recent post is that Rav Elyashiv's opinion was that a Rov need not be consulted.
I would be very interested in seeing your response to Rav Cohen's letter.
This letter is in response to a request from Jewish Action that I state my view and, to the best of my knowledge, that of Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, zt”l, concerning the topic of reporting molestation.
What prompted this request was a letter published in the winter issue, in which the writer purports to set forth both my view and, more importantly, that of Rav Elyashiv on this topic.
Firstly, I thank the editorial board for making this request.
In order to set the record straight, I need to preface my comments with the following:
As is made clear in Rav Elyashiv’s written response (of which I have the original copy, and which was subsequently printed in Kovetz Teshuvos, a compendium of Rav Elyashiv’s responsa), his answer to the question posed to him is based on Teshuvas HaRashba (volume 3, siman 393; also quoted in the Beis Yosefon Choshen Mishpat, siman 2), in which the Rashba posits that any rav or group of rabbanim who have rabbinical jurisdiction over any locale have the Torah-authorized power to go beyond the punitive measures—both corporal and financial—generally set forth in the Torah for malefactors and impose such penalties as they deem appropriate.
This special empowerment is where one’s malfeasance tends to endanger the desired and called for societal contract among men.
It goes without saying that the aforementioned rav, or his appointed agent (“bo’rrim” in the Rashba’s parlance—not to be confused with the same term when used in the context of a beis din), must practice due diligence in determining the veracity of one who reports such conduct.
All of the above is adduced by the Rashba from numerous citations from the Gemara.
After quoting the Rashba, Rav Elyashiv clearly states that all of the above (that is to say both the nature of the penalty and the determination of the report’s veracity) is at the sole discretion of the rav, and at times, with the appointed agent.
The rav may find that it would be most valuable to seek the input of the secular authorities who have much experience in these matters and also to seek the input of individuals who are privately engaged professionally in these matters.
In conclusion, it is abundantly clear to me that according to Rav Elyashiv, it is absolutely forbidden for any individual to report any malfeasance to the secular authorities without prior authorization from a rav empowered to do so as described above.
Rabbi Feivel Cohen
Brooklyn, New York
שו"ת הרשב"א חלק ג סימן שצג
שו"ת הרשב"א חלק ג סימן שצג
תשובת שאלה.
עמדתי על כל טענות הקונדרס הזה ורואה אני שאם העדים נאמני' אצל הברורים רשאים הן לקנוס קנס ממון או עונש הגוף הכל לפי מה שיראה להם וזה מקיים העולם. שאם אתם מעמידין הכל על הדינין הקצובים בתורה ושלא לענוש אלא כמו שענשה התורה בחבלות וכיוצא בזה נמצא העולם חרב שהיינו צריכים עדים והתראה. וכמו שאמרו ז"ל לא חרבה ירושלים אלא שהעמידו דבריהם על דין תורה. וכ"ש בחוצה לארץ שאין דנין בה דיני קנסות ונמצאו קלי דעת פורצין גדרו של עולם נמצא העולם שמם וכבר קנס /שמא צ"ל קנסו/ ז"ל קנסות במכה את חבירו ביד או בהרכיבה וכו' כדאיתא בריש פרק המניח את הכד. ואעפ"י שאלו דיני קנסות הן ואין דנין אותן בבבל כדאיתא התם בריש פרק המניח את הכד מכל מקום בכל מקום ומקום דנין לעתים בכיוצא בהן לגדור את הדור. וגדולה מזו אמרו בפרק נגמר הדין בשמעון בן שטח שתלה שמונים נשים באשקלון ביום אחד ואעפ"י שאין תולין אשה ושאין דנין /שנים/ ביום אחד ואעפ"י שאין /בדפוס ליוורנו תקל"ח ושם אמרו/ טעמא שלא לעבור על דברי תורה אלא לעשות סייג לתורה. וכך אמרו ביבמות בפרק האשה רבה באחד שרכב על סוס בשבת בימי יונים והביאוהו לב"ד וסקלוהו, ובאחד שהטיח את אשתו תחת תאנה והלקהו, וכל זה שהיתה השעה צריכה לכך. וכן עושין בכל דור ודור ובכל מקום ומקום שרואין שהשעה צריכה לכך ולייסר השוטים והנערים המטים עקלקלותם. והנה אמרו דרב הונא שהיה מבבל קץ ידא כדאיתא בריש פרק כל היד, ובסנהדרין בריש גלותא דאמר אי ודאי קטל נפשא לכהיוה לעיניה, ואעפ"י שאין קציצת אבר בדיני התורה אלא הכל לגדר ולצורך שעה. ולפיכך ברורים אלו שעשו זה אם ראו צורך השעה לענוש ולקנוס ממון או גוף לתיקון המדינה ולצורך השעה כדין עשו, וכ"ש בדאיכא הורמנא דמלכא, וכענין ר' אלעזר בר' שמעון בריש פרק השוכר את הפועלים. ומכל מקום הברורים צריכין להתיישב בדברים ולעשות מעשיהן אחר המלכה ולהיות כונתם בכל עת לשמים.
With criminals moving online, fraud is now Israel’s top illicit cash crop – ministry
https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-criminals-moving-online-fraud-now-israels-top-illicit-cash-crop/
Fraud, especially the type perpetrated online, has become the most significant source of dirty money for Israeli criminals, according to a new report from the Justice Ministry’s anti-money laundering unit.
In its 2021 National Risk Assessment, released in late November, Israeli law enforcement agencies concluded that internet fraud poses the country’s biggest money-laundering risk, in terms of the prevalence of the crime and amount of money generated measured against law enforcement’s capability of thwarting it.
The report stands in contrast to the Money Laundering and Terror Financing Prohibition Authority’s (IMPA) previous report from 2017, which pointed to tax evasion, fictitious invoices and drug trafficking as Israel’s biggest money laundering problems.
The report is a periodic self-assessment that Israel is required to carry out as a condition of its membership in the Financial Action Task Force (FATF), a global anti-money laundering organization.
Tech Founder Out After Antisemitic, Anti-Vaccine Email
https://hamodia.com/2022/01/04/tech-founder-out-after-antisemitic-anti-vaccine-email/
Another Let Down by a Jewish Organisation Claiming to Address Abuse
https://migdalemunah.org.uk/another-let-down-by-a-jewish-organisation-claiming-to-address-abuse/
After 7 years on the run, get-refuser finally gives wife divorce
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/319893
Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections - dedicated to Garnel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections
Israeli study shows 4th vaccine boosts antibodies fivefold as infections soar
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-691491