A student of Tropper defends his teacher

I was given permission by the sender to publish this anonymously - unedited - to provide understanding of the other side.
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I wanted to thank you being a voice of reason in our current world where, unfortunately, it becomes more popular to align against our Rabbaim than to actually consider the consequences.

 A little about me: I am a Talmud of Rabbi Tropper, having learned in his Yeshiva for over 5 years.  The Rosh Yeshiva IS a very affectionate person who is very passionate about Torah values, Ahavas Yisroel and Kiruv. The tests on a Kiruv professional’s emunah and character are obvious. It is very, very easy to upkeep high standards living in a large Jewish community. Remove that community to be in a position of constant bombardment from secular values and viewpoints, and anyone can be vulnerable.  I’ve heard Rabbaim, working far from such communities in Kiruv, bewail about how they’ve had children who became Korbanos because of it …

 However, I have to say that all the collective interactions and experiences I’ve ever had with the Rosh Yeshiva tell me he is absolutely 1000% innocent of all these allegations. He has always maintained his emunah and character. What’s more is that he is a Talmud Chacham, and an uncompromising subscriber to Daas Torah.

 I noticed some responses to your blog concluded that, since he stepped down from EJF, he must be guilty.  This flaw is noted in the Chofetz Chaim’s Hilchos Loshon Harah in the case of one being defamed in public and remains silent.  The din, of course, is that the victim’s silence gives absolutely no basis to conclude that he/she is guilty.  Rabbi Tropper simply does not want to make matters worse for himself and his family, and apparently, he has made some very powerful enemies.

 As for the alleged  audio footage: audio technology nowadays can be edited right up to each millisecond.

 It is my hope that those who wish to harm him see their efforts for what they are and do Tseuvah, and that Rabbi Tropper’s name be vindicated.

 Again,
thank you.

EJF: R Aba Dunner tells it like it is

5tJewishTimes

Interview with Conference of European Rabbis
Rav Dunner Speaks Out Against EJF
By 5TJT Staff

Published on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - COMMENTS (1)

The Conference of European Rabbis is the primary Orthodox Rabbinic organization in Europe. It was founded in 1956 on the initiative of British Chief Rabbi Sir Israel Brodie, and its current executive director is Rabbi Aba Dunner. All the chief Rabbis across Europe joined the organization, and attended its first conference in Amsterdam.

It is now run by a standing committee of 25 members which meets twice a year, and just met in Moscow. The Five Towns Jewish Times and VINNEWS spoke with Rabbi Dunner in an exclusive interview concerning the recent statement by the Conference of European Rabbis about the EJF (the Eternal Jewish Family).[...]

Rav Sternbuch - body scanners

Rav Sternbuch stated that he saw no halachic questions with using these scanners for airport safety

London Beis Din attacks EJF

JC.com

Members of the London Beth Din have attacked a controversial conversion organisation with which their former head, Dayan Chanoch Ehrentreu, is involved.

The LBD judges signed a statement from the Conference of European Rabbis, protesting at the American-based Eternal Jewish Family setting up in Europe and calling for the cancellation on its seminar in Munich this week.

Dayan Ehrentreu, who retired as LBD head three years ago, is listed as chairman of the EJF's halachic committee for Europe. He is also a trustee of the CER and head of its travelling Beth Din, supervising conversions for the Conference on the continent....

EJF ad in Mishpacha Magazine

Mazel tov! Shannon Orand converted this week in Israel

Jewish Israel would like to wish a heartfelt Mazal Tov to JI member Shannon Orand upon her conversion to Judaism which she received in Israel earlier this week. Welcome to the Jewish people, Rachel (Shannon's Hebrew name)!...

Jerusalem Post for implications

Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel, shlita

I was approached this morning by a friend who has very solid connections and knowledge of the yeshiva world. He said in an anxious and urgent tone, "You are in trouble. The word in the higher circles is that you are out to get Reb Elya Ber. They claim that your blog is conducting a smear campaign against him. They claim you are claiming that Reb Elya Ber honored tropper at the malave malke and he is conducting a coverup of the scandal for personal interests. An attack on him is viewed as an attack on the entire yeshiva world and the Torah itself...."

This took me by surprise. The yeshiva world is faced with the greatest chillul hashem in memory and they have remained totally silent. But they are avid readers of my blog and they are doing a great job of distorting and misreading what I have said. They have concluded that it is not tropper that is a shonde but rather the bloggers who have publicized this tragedy.

 I did report that Reb Elya Ber was at a Melave Malka which Rabbi Tropper was the guest speaker - no one denies that happened. I also reported that Reb Elya Ber walked out before tropper spoke - no one has denied that happened. The melave malkae was not for the South Fallsburg yeshiva but was for the South Fallsburg Kollel - again an uncontested assertion. If anyone can find a statement on this blog that I said that Reb Elya Ber honored tropper - than I apologize and will erase such a statement because it is not true. If I said that tropper was honored at a Melave Malke that Reb Elya Ber attended -and left when tropper appeared -  that is in fact true and uncontested.

Finally let me remind you that the kavod of Reb Elya Ber is also precious to me and that I have done more than most of the yeshiva world in defending it. If you recall that when tropper left EJF there was a press release that Reb Elya Ber was taking his place. This statement was uncontested for several days and there was great consternation that such a distinguished Rosh Yeshiva should be seen as supporting such shmutz. I was the first to post a denial of this assertion based on  informed sources that this press release was not true. I publicly requested that Reb Elya Ber should be asked to confirm or deny it. Several hours later Matzav published a letter from Reb Elya Ber denying that he was the director of EJF.


Again let's get facts straight - I have the highest regard for Reb Elya Ber Wachtfogel , shlita in the highest regard and am not trying to smear or degrade him.

Mandated Reporting - Why needed?

Guest Post in response to comments on  Jewish Calculus of suffering see also Sex offenders II and  Rav Silman's Teshuva

Dear Rabbi Eidensohn,


Thank you for your response, I value your engagement on this. Regarding your contention that "there is no legal issue here", I need to respectfully disagree. The fact that the family did not want to press charges at the time is immaterial to the question of mandatory reporting. The 'duty to report' is an independent obligation of certain professions (and in some places, on every citizen), usually at minimum teachers, health professionals, and clergy, to report to Children's' Aid (or Child Welfare, again: the names will vary) any instance where through their professional work they become aware of a child having been abused, and/or where there is a potential continuing risk to any child's welfare (whether sexual or physical abuse---in some places also emotional abuse--or neglect). A generic summary can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandated_reporter Usually there is no time limit for this obligation from the time of the incident. Failure to report often carries a penalty of jail time, in Israel I seem to recall it's 6 months. I encourage you, with or without reference to the case under discussion, to phone your local Children's Aid and find out what your legal obligations are in your jurisdiction.

It is precisely because of our natural tendency to "assume" that "someone" else must surely have determined that the assailants are no longer a threat that mandatory reporting laws have become so common. Experience has shown that we can never assume that someone else has taken care of it---usually they are assuming the same thing. Believe me, I know the kind of hassles that can be involved in taking the step of reporting something like this because I've done it a number of times. We are all meshuchadim when it comes to deciding whether someone else 'must have' taken care of it, so the secular law---wisely, in my opinion---takes this decision out of our hands (assuming we choose to follow it).

Having worked as a psychologist in educational and clinical settings since 1996, I've had more cases like this than I'd care to remember; more than I would have expected to have. I see from your website that you are someone who is not afraid to speak out on matters of importance to the Jewish community. So please let me share this with you and your readers: The fact is that if the "rape" as you've called it was never brought to legal attention, it is highly unlikely that a satisfactory assessment was ever made as to whether these men pose a continuing risk. In fact, a teenager who "rapes"---your word---a 10 year-old child is a disturbed individual who we can safely assume does pose a continuing risk. If the case never went to a legal process the reasonable working assumption must be that these men are out there and abusing to this very day. That is pikuach nefesh, as your case example neatly illustrates. Some pedophiles---in the frum world as well---have gone on abusing with impunity for decades because people preferred to assume that someone else must have reported it.

That is why I suggest we need to resist the understandable tendency to prematurely "take away" the legal issues and the concern for future danger to others, to turn to "...the profound"---yet in important ways much easier---"...question of how to give meaning to this event."

Please consider the following: Whenever we hear such a story---even "by the way"---we should ask questions to determine whether the assailant was reported to authorities equipped to assess and monitor future risk. The day that Beis Din is able and willing to take on that role will be a great day---that has not yet come in my experience. The victim should be encouraged to name their abusers---they themselves can generally choose to remain anonymous---and this information should be passed on to those with the training and resources to protect future victims, as a matter of pikuach nefesh.

Respectfully and with blessing,

Yaacov Lefcoe, MA (Psych)

More on EJF by Eli Neuberger

5TJewishTimes

The recent Tropper scandal truly boggles the mind! I do not recall a scandal of this magnitude, where someone like that led an organization in which so many prominent Roshei Yeshiva and Torah leaders were either directly or indirectly associated. How could that be? How could this happen?

Perhaps it might be wise to examine the history of Rabbi Leib Tropper.

He has been involved with Kiruv for close to 40 years. After unsuccessful stints in Ohr Somayach of Jerusalem and Monsey, he established a Kiruv Yeshiva on his own called Kol Yaakov. But his Yeshiva never hit the big time of the Kiruv world. ....

Torah laws must be observed even if observance causes degradation or shame

Berachos (19b): Rav said that if one found a prohibited mixture of threads in his garment he must take off the garment even in public. What is the reason? Because it says in Mishlei (21:30), There is no wisdom or understanding or counsel against G‑d.” That verse means that any situation which causes the profanation of G‑d’s name (chilul HaShem) [e.g., not keeping Torah commandments] no concern is to be shown for human embarrassment or degradation.

ברכות (יט:): אמר רב יהודה אמר רב: המוצא כלאים בבגדו פושטן אפילו בשוק, מאי טעמא (משלי כא:ל) - אין חכמה ואין תבונה ואין עצה לנגד ה' - כל מקום שיש חלול השם אין חולקין כבוד לרב

Rambam(Hilchos Kelayim 10:29): If you see kelayim which is prohibited by the Torah in someone’s clothing – even if he is walking in public – you should immediately rip his clothing off. Even if it is your teacher who has taught you wisdom. That is because the dignity of man (kavod habriyos) does not push off a negative commandment which is explicit in the Torah…. However something which is prohibited rabbincally it is always pushed off by the dignity of man. So even though it says in the Torah the basis of rabbinic law, “lo sasur”, but this prohibition is pushed off because of the dignity of man. Therefore if you see someone wearing rabbinically prohibited shatznes – it should not be ripped off of him in public and he should not take it off in public but rather he should wait until he gets to his home. However if he is wearing Torah shatnez he should take it off immediately.

 רמב"ם (כלאים י:כט): הרואה כלאים של תורה על חבירו אפילו היה מהלך בשוק קופץ לו וקורעו עליו מיד, ואפילו היה רבו שלמדו חכמה, שאין כבוד הבריות דוחה איסור לא תעשה המפורש בתורה, ולמה נדחה בהשב אבדה מפני שהוא לאו של ממון, ולמה נדחה בטומאת מת הואיל ופרט הכתוב ולאחותו, מפי השמועה למדו לאחותו אינו מטמא אבל מטמא הוא למת מצוה, אבל דבר שאיסורו מדבריהם הרי הוא נדחה מפני כבוד הבריות בכל מקום, ואע"פ שכתוב בתורה לא תסור מן הדבר הרי לאו זה נדחה מפני כבוד הבריות, לפיכך אם היה עליו שעטנז של דבריהם אינו קורעו עליו בשוק ואינו פושטו בשוק עד שמגיע לביתו ואם היה של תורה פושטו מיד

Shulchan Aruch(Y.D. 303:1): If you see someone wearing clothing with a forbidden mixture of threads – even if the person is walking in public – you should immediately rip the person’s clothing off even if the person is your rabbi. (Some say that if he is wearing these prohibited clothing by accident then because of concerns for human dignity than you should be silent and not to intervene – Tur in citing the Rosh). However if the prohibited mixture is only a rabbinic prohibition then the clothing is not to be ripped off the person nor should he undress in public but should wait until he goes home. (Similarly if he is in yeshiva and has rabbinic prohibited clothing he does not have to hurry and leave – Tur). But if they are a Torah prohibition he needs to take them off immediately.

שולחן ערוך (יורה דעה שג:א): הרואה כלאים של תורה על חבירו, אפילו היה מהלך בשוק, היה קופץ לו וקורעו מעליו מיד, ואפילו היה רבו. (וי"א דאם היה הלובש שוגג, אין צ"ל בשוק, דמשום כבוד הבריות ישתוק, ואל יפרישנו משוגג) (טור בשם הרא"ש). ואם היה של דבריהם, אינו קורעו מעליו ואינו פושטו בשוק, עד שמגיע לביתו. ( וכן בבית המדרש אין צריך למהר לצאת) (טור). ואם היה של תורה, פושטו מיד.

Israel lags behind in pedophile legislation

JPOST

Israel lags behind the rest of the democratic world in legislation and other means of controlling pedophiles, legal experts said on Sunday, one day after police arrested twin brothers from Bnei Ayish in connection with the murder of a seven-year-old boy.

"There is a need for specific legislation regarding pedophiles," Dana Pugach, head of the Noga Center at the Ono Academic College, told The Jerusalem Post.

Currently, Israeli legislation deals with sex offenders in general. But Pugach said pedophiles were a special kind of sex offender, especially male pedophiles who are attracted to boys. They are the most prolific offenders, said Pugach, quoting research in the US which found that a single male offender attracted to boys attacks an average of 700 victims during his lifetime....

Rav Eliashiv: Don't pay for wedding with kidney

YNET

A halachic query directed at Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv illustrated the dire situation of ultra-Orthodox parents in a financial bind faced with meeting their children's wedding costs.

A yeshiva student from Jerusalem who is about to marry his daughter asked the distinguished Lithuanian rabbi whether he could sell a kidney in order to purchase an apartment for the young couple, and was naturally denied. [...]

Between a rock and a hard place

The present situation is one fraught with dangers and opportunities. The above phrase originated in the 1920's in America to describe coal miners who were forced to work in dangerous conditions in the mines or to suffer starvation and unemployment. There are in fact many problems with society and there are many problematic individuals.  There are also beautiful pleople as well as flawed people who sometimes do fantastic things. Whether, how and if they should be dealt with is not an easy decision. No matter what is done - somebody is hurt or humilated while trying to help and improve the lot of someone else. It is definitely not a win-win situation in terms of human perception - though it clearly is from the view of Heaven.

I have recently been sent a number of emails describing the problematic actions of rabbis, loving parents who are also child molesters, thiefs and other deviants. At the same time I have received a steady stream of complaints from people that clearly agree with how I see reality and what has to be done but strongly (euphemism) denounce me and predict that I am going to a warm place in the Next World for violating their understanding of the Chofetz Chaim or for getting in the mud to get the wagons going again. They question whether there is a heter because of to'eles for printing the information that I am. That even if my information is correct, all talmidei chachom are presumed to do tshuva within 12 hours and there are alternative ways of dealing with it, or this is Olam HaZeh and G-d will take care of His vineyard.

People! It is time to realize we are living in a self produced bubble that has insulated us from reality. It is our obligation to correct our society and not wait for Moshiach coming and cleaning up the mess.

On the other hand, to be effect I can't lose the good elements of our society and get labeled as a garbage can spewing forth filth. This blog is a very delicate balancing act and I don't claim to always get it right - but I sure don't have the right not to try because I have in fact been effective in accomplishing things that could not be accomplished in more subtle ways.

Therefore please continue to send in your comments, but try not to get so mad if I don't publish your latest discovery of a scandal or remove posts that offend someone.

EJF - Countering the Propaganda

5tJewish Times

Geirus is an issue that plays an important role in Yiddishkeit, especially in these times of massive Jewish assimilation. No one is in disagreement with this point. There is a perception, however, among Rabbonim and the lay public that the organization known as the Eternal Jewish Foundation (EJF) has somehow, and in some way, insinuated itself improperly onto the Geirus scene.

There are three main issues that are of grave concern.

The first issue is that the EJF has, somehow, changed the rules of the game and has not been very forthcoming about it. Throughout Jewish history, Yiddishkeit has never been a missionary religion. Christianity and Islam have - but not, lehavdil, Yiddishkeit. True, there have been Poskim that permitted a conversion of a spouse of a Jew who is already married to a gentile - but the EJF has actively advertised for and involved itself in situations even when the Jewish person and non-Jewish person have not yet married. And yet even an ad placed in last week's religious papers neglected to mention this. The quote of this ad is below and the offending line is in bold.[...]