The Emperor has no clothes - Eternal Jewish Family & Daas Torah

A very strange thing has happened. Despite my many postings and requests for one simple thing - the halachic guidelines of Eternal Jewish - EJF has produced nothing. This leads to the rather unfortunate conclusion that there is in fact no halachic justification for their specific program of proselytization. As the wise lawyer said, "If you have evidence you produce the evidence, otherwise you yell and scream and pound the table."

Conversion is a great problem today. Whether we are talking about intermarried couples or the children of intermarried couples or even ordinary conversion. The way this issue is handled strongly influences the nature of the Jewish people for future generations. However we are not dealing with Torah prohibitions but rather rabbinic laws and social policy issues. EJF claims to be relying on the halachic rulings of Rav Moshe Feinstein. In fact Rav Moshe does permit conversion of intermarried spouses. In other words even if the motivation is not for the sake of heaven but rather to stay in the marriage - as long as they agree to keep all the mitzvos they are good gerim bedieved. At the same time he says he himself has nothing to do with conversion. He advised those who wanted to convert the spouse to find some other rabbi who is willing to do it. He refuses because of the very poor success rate for these conversions and wants nothing to do with the whole enterprise of conversion. Rav Chaim Ozer states a similar position. They are both acknowledging that it is permissible to convert these spouses - but by and large it is just producing non-observant converts. Thus EJF seems to be following the narrow technical rulings of Rav Moshe and Rav Chaim Ozer - but not their Daas Torah.

This makes their activities even stranger since they have spared no expense to show that they are following the guidance of gedolei Torah. However, they have produced no evidence that in fact the gedolim are supporting their specific program. I have cited a letter from Rav Efrati - that Rav Eliashiv's standard response as to how to deal with intermarried couples is to shun them - except in the case where they and their community thinks that they are in fact Jewish. Where is the letter from Rav Eliashiv that he approves of proselytizing intermarried couples? Where is the letter from Rav Dovid or Rav Reuven Feinstein that their father approved of the policies of EJF?

Some have claimed that the mere association of many of our gedolim with EJF shows that they support its policies - even though they have not explicity stated it. I had the opportunity recently to speak with a talmid muvhok of one of the star speakers at the recent Washington convention of EJF. I asked him why his rebbe went. He replied, "When my rebbe returned from the convention he said it was shtus v'hevel." I asked so why did he go? The answer was that his yeshiva needed the money.

If EJF's goal is simply to raise the standard of geirus - that is great. But then why is there a need for all their conventions and the millions they spend to convince non-Jews to convert? How many times do you need to say "we want to raise the standards". Where are their guidelines. What are their recommendations dealing with non-Jews entering kiruv programs or into yeshivos in the hope that they will convert? What does it mean that they produced a handbook of these guidelines but as Rabbi Tropper informed me they "withdrew it from circulation 2 years ago because some things weren't clear."

I am still waiting to hear their reply.

Response to Neshama Saver's defense of EJF II

Neshama Saver wrote:

Rabbi, my views are my own. I cannot reference any sources. I am speaking from the heart, utilizing my life experiences growing up in the extreme frei world.

But that was exactly my point. Judaism is a top down organization based on Torah principles given to Moshe at Sinai and elucidated and developed by Torah scholars throughout the ages. It is not a debating society or a free-for-all. The guiding principles and values already exist. While there are legitimate differences of opinion – the starting point is trying to ascertain what G‑d wants based on a thorough study of relevant sources and a sensitive understanding of the nature of the problem. One can not go over to a computer expert and tell him what to do without knowing what a computer is nor can one legitimately involve oneself in legal or medical issues without study – so to is it necessary to have an immersion in Torah before making pronouncements on what G‑d wants and what the solution to Jewish problems are. The Reform movement speaks from the heart. Socialism speaks from the heart. Democracy speaks from the heart. Christians and Moslems speak from the heart – as do missionaries. Torah Judaism first asks what has G‑d told us to do. The Torah specifically says in Bamidbar (16:39): And it shall be to you for a fringe, that you may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the Lord, and do them; and that you seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, which incline you to go astray; One of the major episodes in the Torah – the rebellion of Korach – came about because Korach said that his commonsense led him to reject the Torah Moshe gave to the Jews. Study the commentaries to Bamidbar (chapters 16 and 17) and you should experience déjà vu. Korach and his followers were so sure that they knew more than Moshe that they were willing and did in fact bet their lives on this belief. However to have a say in the Torah world – it is not enough to be wise, sensitive and caring. It is necessary to also be knowledgeable about Torah. Your heartfelt view might in fact by correct – but without validation from the Torah as understood by a talmid chachom – it is at most a possibly legitimate Jewish view. Avos (2:5) says a man ignorant of Torah can not be pious. That is because piety itself has to be defined and validated by Torah knowledge.

The criticism of you and those who wish to shut EJF and other kiruv organizations down is not personal. It is all about saving Jews. If organizations like EJF and the other kiruv groups ceased to exist, then Torah Judaism would hemorrhage even worse than it is now.

You keep repeating this assertion that I am trying to shut EJF and other kiruv organizations. That statement is simply and utterly false. Where have I ever said such a thing. I have repeatedly said that I am simply trying to ascertain the halachic basis for what they are doing. Just as I insist on judging what you say based on whether it is consistent with Torah sources – I also insist that rabbis justify what they are doing. The huge collection of responsa literature has been generated by the greatest rabbis providing what they consider the Torah basis for what they are doing. This has always been the Jewish way of doing things. I had an extensive exchange of letters with Rabbi Tropper in which I repeatedly asked him for the Torah basis for what he is doing. The answers he gave were irrelevant to my question – for reasons I still have not been able to discover. If he has said something similar to what you have been saying and cited sources for it that made sense – I would have no problem accepting it. He has not provided a single source to justify his actions.

Let me be more specific. Some of what you have been asserting is dealt with in the literature of conversion “leshem ishus” (for the sake of marriage). A very erudite English discussion of this is found in Rabbi Dovid Bleich’s volume I of “Contemporary Halachic Problems” in a chapter entitled “The conversion crisis.” He cites major rabbis who say that while there is a prohibition of converting someone who says that they are converting just to marry a Jew – if they are already intermarried then it is permitted to convert the non-Jewish spouse as long as that spouse is sincerely interested in keeping the mitzvos and since they are already married we don’t reject the conversion as being “for the sake of marriage.” There are those rabbis who will do the conversion only if the Jewish spouse agrees to be totally observant. So the battle you are fighting has already been fought – but that is not my issue. EJF is has two different programs – which seem to be contradictory. On the one hand they have announced that they want to upgrade – i.e., make conversion more difficult by setting higher standards worldwide. On the other hand they are running after intermarried couples and spending millions of dollars to convince them to convert. I will acknowledge the possibility that they might in fact have an acceptable rationale for the second part – but for some strange reason they have refused to share this rationale with me. Rav Sternbuch an the Bedatz has asked them for their rationale – they have not been given it to them either. I have not been able to obtain a single written defense of this program – despite the fact that some of the greatest rabbis in the world today are associated with his organization. It is not as if this rationale doesn’t exist because Rabbi Tropper himself wrote to me that in 2005 they had a written manual that dealt with these issues. He said the manual was withdrawn 18 months ago because it was “unclear.” Thus my concern has never been to close down EJF. I am just asking them the question every Jew has the right to ask – “please tell me the Torah basis for your actions.”

Sorry you find that statement astounding. I know what hashkafa is. However there are hundreds of diverging paths regarding hashkafa with Torah Judaism. Which is correct? Yeshivish, Satmar, Chabad, Laewood, Monsey, YU, Rabbi Avi Weiss, Modern Machmir, Mosern Liberal, etc. These are all considered Orthodox "Jewish". As long as one stays within boundaries regarding belief, then they are all kosher, correct?…

Hashkofa is not a supermarket. A view that might be well suited to your best friend might be harmful to you. Hashkofa has to be selected to maximize spiritual growth. One should have a rabbi to help guiding in selecting the optimal hashkofa.

But more to the point. You simply don’t understand what I am trying to do. It is ironic you are accusing me of forcing everyone to think the same way. I am well aware of the variety of hashkofic views. I have even published a sefer “Daas Torah” to present the range of hashkofic views. It was cited by Rabbi Tropper in my previous posting concerning “EJF smear campaign.” He even said, “I actually enjoy reading his book.”

The scriptural & halachic references I will need to ask you to ask those involved in kiruv. I do not know… The question is "do we let them die out or do we do whatever it takes to save them?", all within halachic guidelines of course. This is how EJF differs from the Reform & Conservative. Everything is to be done according to halacha.

I am glad we are in agreement – everything is to be done according to halacha. So what is the halachic basis for what they are doing with intermarried couples? As long as we acknowledge that there are limits to what we can do to achieve the desirable goal of saving Jews – we need to know what those limits are?

Regarding proselytizing, I truly do not believe EJF is doing so. If they were, I may be for it as a way to stop the above mentioned hemorrhage. But they are not.

You still haven’t explained why their activities to convince non‑Jewish spouses to convert are not proselytizing – you and Rabbi Tropper just keep repeating “we are not proselytizing.”

Groups like EJF are part of the solution. Instead of trying to shut them down, why not take a look at the non-frum world and see what exactly is going on?

Again you repeat the falsehood that I am trying to close down EJF. I do know what is going on in the non-frum world. We are not differing in understanding the problem. We are disagreeing as to the nature of the process of providing a solution.

No info regarding my family. Privacy issues again.

I can’t conceive of how your anonymity will be compromised by saying whether your kids are converted and whether they are attending a yeshiva. Can you at least confirm or deny whether EJF makes any efforts to get the non-Jewish children of intermarried couples into kiruv organizations or yeshivos in an attempt to convince them and their non-Jewish parent to convert?

I was referred to the EJF via their advertisement.

This is interesting because Rabbi Tropper told me that they only deal with couples that have been referred to them by rabbis. I was puzzled why EJF had an application form (the pdf) on their website which did not make any reference to a referring rabbi [their online form does ask for a rabbi as reference]. Would you agree with the statement that not all couples that EJF deals with were referred to them by a rabbi?

There is a solution to our problem, and EJF has been the only group proactive in dealing with it. Now that all this pressure from you and other Rabbis has made them retreat into a corner, perhaps now it's time to have a sit down with EJF and truly make what they are doing kosher according to your standards? Those Rabbis are no slouches. I'm sure you can hammer something out.

What you write is what I originally thought was obviously true. However after repeated attempts to get them to simply explain what they are doing and why – I have severe doubts that this will ever happen. I never thought a simple request for information would be perceived as a threat and I never imagined that my time honored action of requesting the Torah principles they have used would make me be perceived as a partner with the forces of evil in the world.

… It is my pleasure to help clarify my position. …You have been very respectful. …I'm glad I can provide a window into the insane non-frum Jewish world. Frum Jews need to step up to the plate and mekarev these people, not jettison us into the Jewish dustbin of history.

I have enjoyed your candor and idealism. You have in fact been very helpful. Furthermore you don't seem to have been terrorized by our dialogue. Perhaps you can convince Rabbi Tropper that I am not leading a conspiracy to destroy all his hard work and accomplishments. I am really not a scary person and in fact most people find me very reasonable. Perhaps you can explain to him that I simply want the Torah rationale – with sources and reasoning – which justify his dealings with intermarried couples and their children.

Read more >> Options >>

Kiruv for non-Jews with Jewish Identity II

I am raising an issue of great importance for the future of the Jewish people. There seems to have been a major revolution in the last few years in the approach to dealing with both intermarriage and the non-Jewish children of intermarriage - and yet very few rabbonim seem aware of it. My purpose in writing the following is to provide intelligent discussion of these issues as well as to establish a literature that can be utilized by others. As Rav Sternbuch has noted - halacha depends upon accurate written discussions of issues that can be analyzed and debated. A statement by a rav - no matter how big - which doesn't provide the critical issue of context and sources is very problematic for use by others.

The issue was raised one Shabbos when I received some guests sent by a well known kiruv organization. In the course of discussing how each one of our guests had come to be interested in this particular program - the guest who was most interested in Yiddishkeit stated. "I was raised as a Methodist because my mother is a Methodist - but I am Jewish because my father is Jewish." To put it mildly I was shocked - how could this obvious fact not have been checked prior to admitting this young man into the program. The program is involved in bringing Jews with no Jewish education to Israel where there have a great time - and also learn about Yiddishkeit. The expenses of the participants are heavily subsidized by wealthy benefactors. I said nothing but after Shabbos I called the director to inform him of the problem. His response was, "We know that he is not Jewish but we were told to accept him since he has a Jewish identity."

In the subsequent months I have mentioned this to various rabbonim - who have all expressed shock that this is officially sanctioned. No one knew any teshuvos written on the subject which justify this approach. However I have found that this is not simply a quirk with one kiruv organization - it represents a major conflict between different kiruv organizations. The big money seems to be going in the direction of kiruv for non-Jews (with some kind of Jewish identity) with the hope of converting them. A friend of mine told me that on three separate occasions he was sent guests for Shabbos from a Russian kiruv program here in Jerusalem and found out that they were all non-Jews. When he complained, the program simply stopped sending him guests.

Similarly there has been a major effort to actively pursue intermarried couples and using various techniques - representive of the best American marketing techniques - convince the non-Jewish spouse to convert. This latter approach is spearheaded by R' Leib Tropper of Yeshiva Kol Yaakov in Monsey. See his website [Eternal Jewish Family - Convert to Judaism, Jewish Conversion, Universally Accepted Halachic Conversions for Intermarried Couples ] - especially the videos of testimonials from satisfied customers. It has the official backing of Rav Eliyashiv, Rav Dovid Feinstein, Rav Reuven Feinstein as well as many others important rabbis. I have not been able to locate any written teshuvos dealing with this either - even though it also represents a major change in the traditional approach to this issue.

I mentioned this information to Rav Moshe Sternbuch who found my revelations disturbing and he wrote a letter which he asked me to translate and distribute. He personally read and approved the translation. The original letter and its translation can be found at the following links.

http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/faxes/RSternbuch_KiruvNonJew_Aug07_heb.pdf
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/faxes/RSternbuch_KiruvNonJew_Aug07_eng.pdf

Some of the discussion aroused already can be found at the following link

http://rabbisedley.blogspot.com/2007/08/kiruv-for-non-jews.html
http://haemtza.blogspot.com/2007/08/patrilineal-descent-and-conversion.html

One of the assertions being made is that Rav Moshe Feinstein has approved kiruv for non-Jews who have a Jewish identify. This assertion has been made by one of America's most widely respected poskim who was a very close talmid of Rav Moshe who said it was an oral psak that he received. I have combed the Igros Moshe and there is no support for this in the Igros Moshe. However recently I was challenged by a certain rosh yeshiva who asserted that what the hetar for this type of kiruv is inherent in the clearly stated teshuva of Reb Moshe regarding the Falashas. I rechecked this teshuva and - contrary to my challenger - it seems clear that this teshuva not only does not support this assertion but seems to directly contradict it. My translation of the teshuva is as follows:

Igros Moshe Y.D. IV. #41 page 271

After much investigation it appears that if the Falashas are not

given a Jewish education they will deteriorate even more and will

refuse to convert and this can possibly cause – G‑d forbid!

–intermarriage between Jews and the Falashas. Therefore l’maaseh

they should be given a Jewish education and be influenced through
this education to convert as they need to do - as I have written to
your brother R’ Mordechai Tendler. One should not be concerned by
the fact that we are teaching Torah to people whose status as Jews
is in doubt. Since it is actually possible that they are Jews and
since there is a reason for this education - it would appear there
is no prohibition to teach them Torah. But you should not teach them
false halachos - an act which itself is prohibited. In other words,
don’t tell them that we in fact view them as definitely Jewish.
Instead tell them that while in fact there is a doubt about their
status as Jews nevertheless we are prepared to educate them in G‑d’s

Torah and His mitzvos. Please note that until they are actually
converted they are not to be considered as definitely Jewish even in

regards to counting them as part of a minyan or to receive an aliya
to the Torah. They are not to be shamed or embarrassed but on the
other hand they should not be deceived with false flattery. On the
other hand l’chumra they are required to keep all the mitzvos
because maybe they are in fact genuine Jews.

Reb Moshe is acknowledging the danger of intermarriage from a non-Jew who views himself as Jewish. However he allows the teaching of Torah only because the person is a "questionable Jew". It follows that if the person is definitely not Jewish he would not have given this heter. Otherwise Reb Moshe would have simply said "any non-Jew who has a Jewish identity should be educated in Torah and converted".

Daniel Eidensohn

RaP: Proselytization in Latin America

MISHPACHA Jewish Family
Weekly 2 Tammuz 5769
Pages 38 – 45"

RaP: Mishpacha magazine for hire continues in its path of publishing stories that promote proselytization, such as in the path with highlighting reaching out to the doubtful Subbotniks and the questionable Jews of Poland by Shavei Israel, and many such articles that seem to always land up mentioning the Anusim/Marranos in a good light, when their status is highly doubtful after 500 years of being lost.

Puerto Rico to Pupa: Rabbi Avraham Goldstein’s Journey from Delivery Boy to Ger Tzedek

By Barbara Bensoussan

With his Monsey residence; Chassidic ensemble of shtreimel, beard, and peyos; and juicy Yiddish, it’s hard to believe that Rabbi Avraham Goldstein’s roots lie in Puerto Rico. But that’s precisely where his unusual journey to Judaism began. Goldstein proceeded through a Williamsburg delivery route to an Orthodox conversion, to yeshivos in Baltimore and Brooklyn and the Pupa Chassidus. Now a violin dealer who’s made it his mission to advocate for South American geirim, he approaches all his diverse roles with an unbounded sense of joy in Judaism.

RaP: If this is all there was to his story it would be fine, but he has taken on more roles for himself than merely being a regular Jew.

"…fourteen-year-old Eduardo Torres…wanted nothing more in December of 1981 than to leave Puerto Rico and go to cold, inhospitable New York…some twenty-eight years have passed since then, but today Torres, better known in the community as Rabbi Avraham Goldstein, lives with his wife and children in Monsey, runs his own business and is ceaselessly busy helping geirim, baalei teshuvah, and anyone else who might benefit from his support."

RaP: Nowhere in this article is it made very clear who exactly gave him semicha to be ordained to undertake the rabbinical counseling and pastoral work, even though he spent time in a few yeshivas and some Chasidishe kehilas.

"Goldstein’s efforts to aid converted Jews and baalei teshuvah in South America ultimately culminated in the creation of an organization entitled Toiras Jesed [Chesed], which has the help and haskamah of Rav Chaim Eliezer Brown and Rav Yitzhak Mandel of Monroe"

RaP: What kind of "haskamah" is this? It should at least be in writing and should have been published with the article that is after all promoting this evidently proselytizing missionary cause, to give it proper Halachic legitimacy.

"Toiras Jesed even mounted a brand-new community designed specifically for geirim in the countryside of Puerto Rico

RaP: Throughout this article, the word "geirim" is used VERY loosely and ambiguously and it's very obvious that it often means people who WISH TO BECOME geirim, but who are not yet at the point where they can be Halachically and officially referred to as "geirim". In any case, why would people who have converted 100% need a separate community in far-off Puerto Rico? when almost all dayanim performing legitimate conversions insist that a gentile who has become a ger tzedek must live in a Torah community or be very near to one where geirim can lots of guidance, and not be detached from the world in a far-off Potemkin village of people who are being kept in seclusion it seems until they can become true gerim, but then, why the need to provide such a service at all isn't it according to Halacha to DISCOURAGE geirim and not to help them by building sponsored villages for them?

"In the Beginning. Perhaps it is no coincidence that Rabbi Goldstein’s original name was Torres. “The first Jew to come to America was named Luis de Torres…and Torres was a typical Marrano name.” Many of the early settlers of the New World were practicing Jews or Anusim who came fleeing the Inquisition, and lately it has become something of a fad among Hispanic groups to trace their Jewish origins…"

RaP: Mishpacha magazine for hire has a fatal weakness for somehow or other always bringing around the remotest subjects about dispersed "Jews" to the subject of the Anusim/Marranos. One wonders why that is so and why they are so invested in this very suspicious line of publishing? Hopefully it is not because of some kind of hidden ecumenical agenda that will eventually seek to make most of the Christian world into "Anusim" or whatnot.

"…Finally, almost two years after his arrival in New York, Rabbi Tress and Rabbi Weberman brought the sixteen-year-old young man to the mikveh, where he emerged as Avraham ben Avraham. He later changed his name to Goldstein after the first rabbi who taught him…Rav Yidel Leib Frank, a Breslover Dayan…asked Goldstein to attend his Shemini Atzeres seudah…at the seudah sat the woman who would later become his wife, a young lady from Mexico whose conversion had been overseen by Rav Frank himself. ”My wife is originally from Guadelajara…she was advised to complete her conversion in Israel."

RaP: Seems the whole world wants to become more Jewish except for the millions of born secular Jews who are running the other way as they assimilate, intermarry and apostasize by the millions. It is truly an olam hafuch!

"Reaching Out to Other Newcomers. Rabbi Goldstein’s “family” has expanded yet more as he reaches to other geirim… he formed an organization entitled “Toiras Chesed” (or “Toiras Jesed in Spanish spelling) to help other geirim, particularly those from Spanish-speaking countries. “It’s very hard for geirim in South America",

RaP: This is where the red line is crossed and he leaps into proselytizations as an organization. Note again, that the word "geirim" is used incorrectly here yet again because it's wannabe geirim that are the subject and not people who have undergone a full halachic geirus in front of an established bais din. Also, why is he busy with this? Who asked him to do this? Besides it being a good story-line and a money-magnet this is skating on thin ice whereby any rabbi who is also a ger is NOT allowed Halachically to perform geirus, and here he is obviously pushing to breaking point the boundaries to that..

"he explains, “because many of the Ashkenazim are not so religious, but most of the Sephardic communities hold by an old gezeirah that forbids their congregants to admit geirim"

RaP: No need to knock the Halachically Jewish Ashkenazim they are still 100% Jews and must be approached with total and pure ahavas Yisroel -(even if they be less religious, ga'ava is never nice, especially from a ger) --there is no "mitzva" to love a goy, even if he /she has ambitions to become a ger one day, they can always be encouraged to keep the sheva mitzvos of Bnai Noach which is good enough, they DO NOT require geirus at every twist and turn! -- and the Sefardim (they have their reasons and rabbonim who guided them on this) all in order to make bunch of Hispanic gentiles who are not even Jews to begin with look good. Mishpacha magazine for hire is showing a lack of sechel here for publishing this.

…”It’s hard to find anyone to convert you...”

RaP: And so it should be! This is good Halachically and good for the Jews! Who needs conversion spas and sponsorship of geirim? Is Uncle Tom Kaplan or his nephew of Shavei Israel sponsoring this? Perhaps some Chasidim with cash to burn who want to show that not just Israel can attract and settle geirim (like they recently did with the Yemenites they brought to Monsey)? The article should make clear who is REALLY sponsoring this financially and who is behind paying for the story to be published in Mishpacha magazine for hire yet again on such a theme, is it maybe an Evangelical Christian group? Anything is possible in this day and age.

"Goldstein points out that if there was a large choice of shuls and mikvaos it wouldn’t be a problem"

RaP: Again, as far as geirus, there is NO "problem" because it is good Halachicaly and good for the Jews that these barriers exist. Judaism does not need a flood of Hispanic or any geirim from this.

"but in South America the options are more limited."

RaP: This is GOOD Halachically, and good for the Jews, and NOT "bad" as his statement and Mishpacha make it seem

"In Mexico City, he claims Rabbi Jabra’s shul is the only one that allows geirim to belong. “Rav Pinchas Rabinowitz and Rav Tropper, who do conversions in Monsey, are really trying to stir things up in Mexico to make life easier for geirim,” Goldstein says…"

RaP: Aha, so Tropper and one of his enablers is now part of this story. It figures. Seems Tropper can't resist going down the path of stirring up trouble anywhere and everywhere there is a crack and they let him in. Doesn't Tropper have anything better to do than to facilitate yet another wrong-headed and misguided proselytization effort now in Latin America, when there are millions of born Halachic Jews who are secular closer to home in the USA and Israel who need kiruv.

"Because the options for geirim in South America are so limited,"

RaP: Again, this is good Halachically and good for the Jews, because it has never been the goal or desire of any rov or true manhig in Yisroel to help potentially limitless numbers of goyim become geirim. "Goldstein set about creating his own special community for geirim and baalei teshuvah of all backgrounds in Puerto Rico

RaP: Who asked him to do this? Is it Halachically permissible?

"With the help of other geirim and some sympathizers in New York, he raised funds for his Toiras Jesed organization and bought a small tract of land in Myaguec, Puerto Rico…He has already begun helping establish similar communities in Venezuela and Colombia "

RaP: Who are the mysterious enablers and financiers who are pushing this and obviously using him as the front man, so that they can avoid getting copped for the Halachic avla they are doing by setting up proselytizing communities?

"In other locations in South America, he helps geirim hook up with sympathetic rabbis and community members. “There us such a hunger for Torah,” he maintains, “I went to Colombia for Shabbos Chanukah, invited by 150 people who want to become geirim…"

RaP: Finally, some accuracy. These people are wannabe geirim not the real thing yet. Funny how it's gentiles nowadays who thirst for Torah yet secular Jews couldn't be bothered with it. Olam hafuch.

"In Venezuela, there’s a group of about fifteen families living in the middle of nowhere, who learned about Torah on the Internet and all want to become Jewish. You should see them! They’re all dressed like Jews, and they look like a bunch of Sephardim".”

RaP: Most Hispanics look like "Sefardim", so what? it's no reason to roll out a long-distance red carpet to welcome them as honorary Jews. And yes, the Internet is making a huge impact in the way people learn and live, just take this blog for example...

"Goldstein qualifies that he mostly works with people who have been referred to him by rabbis. “But lots of people approach me, because they see me as a ger who is stable and successful, who has a good track record. The rabbis trust my judgment when I send people to them, and they in turn often send people to me".”

RaP: All this activity, from Goldstein's perspective, is basically for one purpose to promote proselytization which is highly controversial and problematic Halachically and will be bad for the Jews down the line as these nebulous cases are lined up for factory-like conversion in conversion-mills that he is trying to help and grease and kick-start into action.

"Kiruv in Colombia. Reb Avraham sharing his passion for Judaism with local geirim."

RaP: "Kiruv" has NOTHING to do with geirim as such. Kiruv in its strict and classical definition means reaching out to secular and less religious BORN JEWS and bringing them closer to Torah-true Yiddishkeit. On the other hand missionizing and proselytizing to gentiles goes against thousands of years of normative Jewish life, practice and history. "Moving beyond the superficial…

”Judaism is like an air conditioner. You have the mechanical part and the part that brings in fresh air. As I see it, many of us often get too caught up in the mechanics of the system…as a ger…my job is to bring in lots and lots of fresh air.”

RaP: This is one of funniest and yet most revealing comments. Does he honestly think that bringing infinite numbers of Hispanic geirim into Klal Yisroel is like an "air conditioner" bringing in "fresh air" ??? -- has this man never heard of kashim geirim leYisroel kesapachas and all the problems it has and is creating for the world-wide Jewish and Torah communities ??? as they grapple existentially with the onslaughts of all sorts of schemes for gentiles to gain entry into Klal Yisroel, even with the help of ultra-haredi well-meaning rabbis who act more like Christian missionaries, lehavdil than like humble Jews focused on minding their own affairs who should be busy with their own business and not running around the world looking under every rock and in every village if there are any misnamed "lost Jews" or wannabe geirim to bring home like trophies from the hunt.

EJF - proselytizing intermarried couples/ RaP

RaP: For quite a long time now, the Agudist politically correct American YATED NEEMAN has avoided any mention of EJF and Tropper and has not published any infomercials obviously designed by paid EJF publicists.

"Eternal Jewish Family Addresses Conversion Crisis" "The Jewish Press Friday, June 5, 2009 Page 61

RaP: Only EJF is addressing this crisis? Every last Orthodox rabbi in Israel, Europe and America is grappling with it! The articles reads as a paternalistic and infantilizing event for those who were paid to show up. Who they were and the numbers are not given in the article.

"By Rochel Weinstein

Understanding the crisis in Jewish conversions, Israel's Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar convened an emergency meeting last week to halt what many see as the continued erosion of the nation's policies regarding conversion that are threatening the spiritual existence of the Jewish people."

RaP: What is the purpose of juxtaposing Rav Amar's meetings with this EJF event? It makes no sense that Amar who is an Israeli Zionist rabbi and should and does work with the RCA Zionist rabbis in America should be used a prop for the goings on at a very Agudist non-Zionist gathering.

"On the same day, in Morristown, New Jersey, Eternal Jewish Family began a two-day interactive seminar for educators and professionals from leading kiruv organizations as part of its ongoing effort to address the fallout from improper conversions."

RaP: May as well have quoted a Chabad rabbi at nearby Morristown itself where they have a huge rabbinical college and they will and do realistically be dealing with conversions.

"At the seminar Rabbi Dovid Jacobs, executive director of EJF, clarified that a basic tenet of EJF's work is to ensure that potential sincere converts wishing to build true Torah homes are directed towards proper halachic conversions."

RaP: Of which EJF seeks to have the controlling monopoly with rabbis answering to Tropper.

"Rabbi Leib Tropper, chairman of EJF's rabbinic committee, stressed that, while inyonei geirus can be controversial, Klal Yisroel has an obligation to meet the challenges presented."

RaP: Much of everything in Judaism is controversial. Kashrus, gittin, chinuch, sexual abuse, machlokes abounds etc, but in this case Tropper is deflecting preemptively the well-known criticism that has been leveled at him by the BADATS for example and made him a controversial lightning rod as this Blog has recorded for over two years.

"Rabbi Tropper dispelled the belief that our mainstream yeshiva and Bais Yaakov systems have been spared any fallout from improper conversions."

RaP: Nothing is perfect, this is his typical sensationalism and looking for that moment to play with a captive audience's heads. Tropper's Kol Yaakov yeshiva is also less than perfect as many know.

"Through his "straight talk" session, Rabbi Tropper conveyed the importance in the conversion process of determining if a prospective convert "is willing to not just change what he does, but also change the very essence of who he is."

RaP: To admit that Tropper gave a "straight talk" session" is startling and worrisome. Did anyone challenge his bullying and intimidating ways? Or were they too afraid since they were all paid off to come there by Tropper's banker Tom Kaplan to eat drink and pontificate?

"Harav Reuven Feinstein, shlita, expressed that "All Jews count. Klal Yisroel is obligated to utilize all its resources to be mekarev ba'alei teshuva and ensure the proper lineage of every Jew."

RaP: One does not "mekarev ba'alei teshuva" since if they are ba'alei teshuva they have already been mekareved. Pure condescension. Highly unlikely if any baalei teshuva or geirim could be inspired from all the talk here. This conference is probably one of the best weapons to keep rabbis from being effective in conversions and kiruv with all the condescension, infantalization and paternalism flying around in the grandiose statements from "Mount Olympus" style pep-talks.

"He noted that EJF has filled a need in the world of kiruv which regularly confronts issues regarding the yichus of baalei teshuva.

RaP: How so? EJF worries about conversions and in fact makes the problems of confused yichus even worse by advertising to recruit limitless amounts of gentiles, whether hitched to Jews or not, and make them into super-duper Halachic Jews. This is something Klal Yisroel surely does not need.

"Harav Feinstein and others mentioned the psak that permits one to be mekarev the non-Jew in intermarriage for the sake of simultaneously being mekarev the Jewish spouse."

RaP: Have any of them ever written a formal thorough universally agreed upon and recognized teshuva validating or explaining this so-called "psak"? Seems the phrase "universal standards" does not apply to this cockamamie "psak".

"Harav Shmuel Kaminetsky, shlita mentioned the "vast problem we are dealing with here in America because of intermarriage and conversion."

RaP: Platitudes. This is obvious. The question is why he now comes to EJF events? [...]

"Rabbi Nota Schiller compared geirus to any other field in medicine that requires expertise. "We must protect the Jewish people - we are all bonded with a shared destiny. We have the obligation to know, like a specialized surgeon knows, how to handle these situations."

RaP: He forgets he is not lecturing at Ohr Somyach and is preaching to the convert, as it were. So now all kiruv workers must become like "surgeons"? When will they have time to do actual kiruv after 20 years in rabbinical/surgery/conversion school?

"Rabbi Peretz Eichler presented a captivating video with case histories of intermarried couple who, through the assistance of EJF, went on to build true Torah homes. It demonstrated how EJF has helped raise conversion standards across the globe."

RaP: Soon Spielberg will be invited to explain his marriage to a "converted"shiksa with his great videos.

"The conference also addressed the emotional havoc and fallout of an invalid geirus."

RaP: The greatest havoc in the last year concerning conversions was when Rav Sherman took the plunge and annulled thousands of conversions of Rav Druckman summarily without Druckman being given a chance to put his side of the case. So now this has dragged in the Israeli Supreme Court who want to know what was going on. Next time, Rav Sherman, look before you leap, even
if you are 99.99% right and doing it leshem shomayim.

"We have to do what we can so that there can be an end to the emotional pain
caused by improper conversion,"

RaP: Sure.

"said Rabbi Senderovic, Rosh Kollel and Rosh Bais Din of Milwaukee. He stressed however, that "Of course we must have sympathy for those tragedies - but it must be based in Torah."

RaP: What "sympathy".. who here has true sympathy or empathy? This was a meeting where the knives were out. Tropper was yelling his straight talk and Rav Eisenstein was issuing yet more ultimatums. No sympathy here.

"Rabbi Nachum Eisenstein, yoshev rosh Vaad L'Inyonei Giyur in Jerusalem, referred to the historical controversies involving geirus that have led to a vast decay in 's standards in conversion and insisted that, by definition, there can be "no compromises whatsoever in the conversion process."

RaP: He's back with Tropper again. It's in the open now that in Brooklyn they have guy going around the shulls and yeshivas trying to paste up the English fraudulent anti-Bomzer letter. It is known that all Rav Eisenstein cares about is creating Armageddon with the RCA and knocking them out of Orthodoxy once and for all. Bomzer is just another chapter in his war on the RCA. It is surprising that they take it all so quietly. It might be too late for them if they stay quiet for much longer.

"Rabbi Yonasan Rosenblum, columnist and noted speaker, said that proper geirus is not a detail; rather, "It's the very definition of who we are." He quoted Rabbi Mendel Weinbach that, "Defining how a person becomes Jewish also defines the very essence of being a Jew," stressing that "If we don't have standards for geirus, it will disappear."

RaP: Platitudes, somewhere between the amiable banter of Nota Schiller and Rav Kaminetsky.
"Rabbi Dovid Schochet, senior member of Toronto's beis din, took on the crucial task of delineating the extent to which batei din can rely on the input of rabbanim who sponsor prospective converts."

RaP: If rabbanim won't sponsor converts then who will? This is a delicate balance because many rabbanim are able talmidei chachamim too.

"Rabbi Mordechai Fishberg, a recognized expert in the field, shared curriculum designed to educate intermarried couple who are committed to halachic proper conversion and described the high standards of learning that must be in place in order for them to build true Torah homes."

RaP: A Ger is not required to know the Shulchan Oruch nor to go to daf yomi. It's the kabbolas ol mitzvas in PRINCIPLE and the commitment to actualize it as required, but full knowledge of every last bit of Torah never was and is not required for a valid conversion. How much was Ruth the Moabite required to know to be accepted as a convert? She is the prototype for converts basically. A valid bais din can go lechumra or lekula in accepting converts, there is leeway, and that is just what Rav Eisenstein and Tropper want to destroy.

"Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb, senior faculty member of Ohr Somayach in Jerusalem, underscored the importance for geirim to be trained to understand the importance of consulting gedolei Yisroel regarding every aspect of their lives."

RaP: Where does it say there is such a "requirement"? Another person who thinks he is talking in the Ohr Somayach auditorium. Next he will say that male converts must agree to wear hats and jackets during the week and kappotes on Shabbos and the females should wear their hair in pony tails or shave their heads, not go to college, and not drive cars like the ladies in Bnai Brak or Williamsburg. None of these things are required foir a valid conversion.

"Rabbi Doron Kornbluth, noted lecturer and author of Why Marry Jewish, used statistics and facts to describe the reality of the devastation of intermarriage as "a huge problem that has been ignored."

RaP: All this is known already for decades.

"He appealed to the rabbanim as the only hope for college students to ultimately marry Jewish, explaining that"

RaP:Are these the same rabbanim who are being asked to save the kids but who will be given the boot if they sponsor a convert in front of a bais din? Can't have it both ways. Either the rabbanim are needed and can be trusted and enabled or they cannot.

"we are dealing with a massive population of kids coming through intermarried homes. In another generation, the Jewish population will only consist of Orthodox and intermarried - that's literally where we're headed."

RaP: This too is all very well know for a long time now.

"Rabbi Mordechai Neugroschel, who lectures around the world regarding kiruv and regularly serves as a tour guide through concentration camps in Europe,"

RaP: As all kiruv workers know lumping kiruv with the Holocaust is not always the best mix. Is this man an entrepeneur or does he want to help deal with conversions? Not quite clear from this last confusing bit.

"pointed out that tempering standards in conversion not only sets up others for emotional havoc,"

RaP: The people he was talking to are NOT the ones creating the havoc so why is he giving a guilt trip speech?

"but also negates the struggles of those in the past who suffered tremendous mesiras nefesh to remain Jewish."

RaP: Again, as any kiruv worker knows appealing to past Jewish suffering is not a good selling point. NCSY, Chabad and Aish HaTorah know that and that is why they succeed terrifically at kiruv, and they have no need for EJF events and stayed away from this one for good reasons.