After Tropper resigned I met the famous Jewish columnist who had served as Tropper's PR man and asked what had happened? He replied "Everyone knew he was a menuval."
Years ago when I was writing my books on abuse I asked the head of one of the largest organizations dealing with Jewish education permission to publish his protocols for preventing abuse he hesitated
saying " Then people might say there is a problem. That attitude still exists.There have been a number of abuser (e.g. Mondrowitz) who escaped prosecution in America with Rabbinic assistance
A well known godol advised against going to the police regarding a pedophile because it would be harmful for the welfare of the yeshiva Rav Sternbuch rejected this conclusion and said "you don't sacrifice people for institutions that is an American idea"
Rabbi Reisman objected to my publicizing a convicted pedophile
Rabbi Cohen was the opposing view who felt strongly in favor of publicizing.A prominent Rosh yeshiva just claimed that it has been known for many years that a certain prominent figure was doing terrible things for years without anyone going to police or making meaningful efforts to stop him.
Sometimes it goes the other way
A beis din in Chicago decided after their investigation that a certain person had raped many of his students. A second beis din questioned all involved and concluded that no rape had occurred but there were rumors that some had believed and repeated them as facts which were accepted at face value . But the conclusion of the first beis din was widely believed and accepted even after the 2nd beis din disagreed. One of the "victims" even claimed being raped by this man when she was attending a funeral!
Nachalot was believed by various rabbis to be the source of a pedophile ring. One even told his students that it would be appropriate to beat someone he mistakenly suspected
A woman in Lakewood went to the rabbis there and claimed her husband sexually abused their child and she wanted a divorce, They believed her and pressured the husband to divorce her. 10-years later she admitted that she only made the claim because her lawyer said to do it
An orphan was persuaded by a group of prominent rabbis to marry a pedophile because they were sure marriage would cure his pedophillia. She found out about his problem when he was arrested for sexual abuse, The rabbis graciously offered to pay for half of the divorce expenses
Bottom line: Rabbis are not experts on child abuse or investigating it and determining whether it happened by alleged victims
https://vinnews.com/2022/01/06/rav-moshe-meiselman-walder-is-a-rasha-merusha-see-the-video/
ReplyDeleteSometimes a Private investigator can find information, which the Police won't be bothered to look for. I don't know if there are any frum P.I.'s
ReplyDeleteSometimes a psychic can find information-so what is your point?
ReplyDeletewhether you agree or disagree with any BD, they are also acting as Private investigators.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you hold by Rav kanievsky to go direct to the police, again, it will not be investigated lefi halacha, and willbecoem public knowledge anyway. hence your objections are moot, and the heter to go to the polcie is pseik resha.
You obviously skipped Rav Silman's article I posted
ReplyDeletenope, he doesnt address the point i make
ReplyDeleteHe doesn't deal with the fact that a case wil be publicised. Look , for example, at the Goel ratzon case, he was a secular cult/abuser/rapist. He was investigated arrested by the police - the story was so big, it made news headlines around world, not only in Israel.
Reread the article
ReplyDeleteIn any case, there ar many organisations both in Israel, adn aroudn the world, which give advice to victims of abuse. Sometimes the victims, children will not know what to do, or if they are permitted to report it. Even adult victims may be confused about what to do. So do you propose to close down those organisations too?
ReplyDeleteTorah thought parsha בשלח “And Moses said to them: Let no one leave any of it over until morning. But they paid no attention to Moses; some of them left of it until the morning, and it became infested with maggots and stank. And Moses was angry with them.” (Exodus 16:19-20)
ReplyDeleteשמות פרשת בשלח פרק טז פסוק יט - כ
(יט) וַיֹּאמֶר מֹשֶׁה אֲלֵהֶם אִישׁ אַל יוֹתֵר מִמֶּנּוּ עַד בֹּקֶר:
(כ) וְלֹא שָׁמְעוּ אֶל מֹשֶׁה וַיּוֹתִרוּ אֲנָשִׁים מִמֶּנּוּ עַד בֹּקֶר וַיָּרֻם תּוֹלָעִים וַיִּבְאַשׁ וַיִּקְצֹף עֲלֵהֶם מֹשֶׁה:
פסיקתא זוטרתא (לקח טוב) שמות פרשת בשלח פרק טז פסוק יט
ויאמר משה אלהם. משה אמר לזקנים, וזקנים לכל ישראל: איש אל יותר ממנו עד בקר. כדי לתת נס בתוך נס: ד"א כדי להכין לבם לאביהם שבשמים, שמי שהיה לו חמשה או יותר בנים, היה אומר שמא למחר לא ירד מן, והיה לבו נכון לשמים:
מדרש הגדול שמות פרשת בשלח פרק טז פסוק יט
ויאמר משה אליהם איש אל יותר ממנו עד בוקר. גזירת מלך ואם הותיר הרי זה עובר בלא תעשה.
מלבי"ם שמות פרשת בשלח פרק טז פסוק יט
ויאמר משה אליהם. עוד למוד אחר לדורות, שיבטח אדם בה' שיתן לו מזונו יום יום, וכל מי שיש לו מה לאכול היום ואומר מה נאכל למחר ה"ז מקטני אמנה, הגם שאמרו חז"ל ופחדת לילה ויומם זה הלוקח חטים לשנה, זה בהנהגת הטבע, לא כן המושגח מה' א"צ לדאוג דאגת מחר, וע"כ צוה שלא יותירו ממנו עד בקר, שאם יותיר שידאג שיום מחר לא ימצאהו ה"ז מקטני אמנה, ואם יותיר כדי לעשות ממנו סחורה, ע"ז כבר הוזהרו שלא ילקטו רק עומר לגלגלת:
Arachin 15a
“It was taught: R. Judah said, With ten trials did our forefathers try the Holy One, blessed be He: two at the sea, two because of water, two because of manna, two because of the quails, one in connection with the golden calf, and one in the wilderness of Paran, Two at the sea: one at the going down, the other at the coming up. At the going down, as it is written: “And they said to Moses: Was it for want of graves in Egypt that you brought us to die in the wilderness? What have you done to us, taking us out of Egypt? Is this not the very thing we told you in Egypt, saying, Let us be, and we will serve the Egyptians, for it is better for us to serve the Egyptians than to die in the wilderness?” (Exodus 14:11-12) At the coming up: That is in accord with what R. Huna taught, for he said: The Israelites of that generation were among those of little faith.”
My theory. The wicked of that generation sought to prove to everyone that Moses was a faker/liar. They believed it safe to leave over manna till morning. They wanted proof, hard evidence, that Moses is faker/liar. Oh no: it became with infested maggots and stank. Imagine if God didn’t intervene and allowed the left-over manna to be eatable. The wicked would then say: we have proof that Biden/Harris massively cheated on the November 2020 election. Biden announced January 6, 2022 that 7 million Americans voted for him over Trump and there is zero proof of vote cheating. Whew there is no hard evidence that Biden/Harris massively cheated on the November 2020 election. God intervened the left-over manna became with infested maggots and stank.
“Rabbinic coverup of sexual abuse” No. The question is if rabbis have authority to look into a complaint of abuse in an agunah case before them. Yes. A woman screaming agunah has standing, in Rackman/Morgenstern, Rabbi Riskin and such.
ReplyDeleteIn the US juries have authority in abuse complaints. In the US juries hate vigilante justice. The jury ruled guilty those 3 men that shot to death what they thought was the local robber. The jury ruled guilty Mendel Epstein who thought he was helping an agunah.
My theory. Rabbis acted within their authority: “A woman in Lakewood went to the rabbis there and claimed her husband sexually abused their child and she wanted a divorce, They believed her and pressured the husband to divorce her. 10-years later she admitted that she only made the claim because her lawyer said to do it.”
Juries acted within their authority in Mendel Epstein et al and in: Three Men Get Life in Prison for Killing of Ahmaud Arbery. In parshat בשלח the rebels attacking Moses and Aaron were the liars/fakers.
the Talmud actually deals with this subject, of impeachment of witnesses. It is called Hazama.
ReplyDelete>you don't sacrifice people for institutions that is an American idea"
ReplyDeleteNo, it's the 614 mitzvah from what I've been able to tell.
Nope!
ReplyDelete