Bava Basra (168a) Abaye said: A Torah scholar who goes to betroth a woman should take an ignoramus with him to establish a positive identity of the woman, lest people exchange another woman for her when given to him for marriage, taking advantage of his innocence.
This is clearly derived from Yaakov and his experience with Leah /Rachel
ReplyDeleteExcept that it is not quite logical. He would have to have seen the woman the first time to know who it is, and also the 2nd time. If so, what is the point of the am haaretz accompanying him?
The flip side of this - is that an AmHaaretz actually has a function, other than being an object of scorn and target for violence.
perhaps it is also a Romanesque view of the am haaretz. The romans - yemach shmam) did not consider their slaves to be humans, but animals, so they did not even mind having intimate relations in view of the slaves. This is a watered down version of the Roman view - the am haaretz is sub-human, or talking ape. whereas a Talmid Hacham cannot gaze at women (even his own wife) for an Am haaretz it is permitted, since he is an ape, and not subject to normal laws.
look at the gemorah and the commentaries
ReplyDelete“Talmid chachom doesnt look at women and needs the help of an am haaretz” No. Daf hayomi Pesachim 10b
ReplyDelete“If an axe is lost in a house, the house is unclean, for I say: An unclean person entered there and took it. Or if he leaves it in one corner and finds it in another corner the house is unclean, for I assume, An unclean person entered there and took it from one corner and placed it in another corner. R. Simeon b. Gamaliel said: The house is clean, for I say. He lent it to another and forgot, or he took it from one corner and placed it in another corner and forgot [Thus here too, according to the Rabbis we fear that mice have been about, and consequently we also fear that the leaven he now finds is not the same which he left, so that a re-search is required. But on R. Simeon b. Gamaliel's view we do not fear this.]”
In the Gamara the Sages consider a strange person (am Haaretz ?) entering a clean house, anything the strange person touches becomes unclean. “Whoever touches the body of the one with the discharge shall wash his clothes, bathe in water, and remain unclean until evening. If one with a discharge spits on one who is clean, the latter shall wash his clothes, bathe in water, and remain unclean until evening. Any means for riding that one with a discharge has mounted shall be unclean; whoever touches anything that was under him shall be unclean until evening; and whoever carries such things shall wash his clothes, bathe in water, and remain unclean until evening. If one with a discharge, without having rinsed his hands in water, touches another person, that person shall wash his clothes, bathe in water, and remain unclean until evening. An earthen vessel that one with a discharge touches shall be broken; and any wooden implement shall be rinsed with water.” (Leviticus 15:7-12)
there is no relationship between the two different gemoras
ReplyDeleteaccording to Sefaria only Rashbam and Rabeinu Gershom
ReplyDeleteSefaria is not the most comprehensive database
ReplyDeleteIs this based on how Yaakov Avinu looked at Rachel Imeinu but wound up with Leah Imeinu instead?
ReplyDelete