אברך חרדי ביקש לגרש את אשתו בגלל שלא ידע שהיא סינית במקור. הנזק, לטענתו, הן העיניים המלוכסנות שקיבלו ילדיהם. הרב פסק: זה לא פגם. ומה אם היו נולדים להם ילדים שחורים? (חדשות)
לא ידע שהתחתן עם סינית - מקח טעות? יהודי שפנה לרבה של רמת אלחנן וחבר מועצת גדולי התורה הגאון רבי יצחק זילברשטיין, העלה שאלה מוזרה לגבי נישואיו עם אשתו, וביקש לברר אם מדובר במקח טעות - כיוון שגילה למפרע שמדובר בסינית.
"התחתנתי לפני כמה שנים עם אשה פלונית", הוא מספר, "ולאחר שנה נולד לנו בס"ד ילד. לצד השמחה הגדולה שהיתה בעת הלידה, נדהמתי להיווכח שלילד יש עיניים מלוכסנות, כמו של הסינים..."
"כששאלתי את אשתי בעניין, היא השיבה לי שאכן היא נולדה בסין, אבל במהלך שנות בחרותה עברה ניתוח ל'יישור' העיניים, ולאחר הניתוח סר ממנה 'המראה הסיני', והיא נראית כאשה 'מערבית'".
"הבעל התרגז מאוד על אשתו שלא סיפרה לו את הדבר, אבל אי אפשר להתעלם מהטענה שיש גם עליו, שכן הוא התחתן איתה בהיותה מתגוררת בארה"ב, וגם הוא לא ערך אודותיה את הבירור המספק" נאמר בעלון שסיקר את הפרשה. [...]
הבעל טען שמדובר במקח טעות, ועם אשה כזו הוא לא הסכים כלל להתחתן, לכן הוא רוצה להגיש נגדה תביעה לגירושין. כשנשאל היכן מוזכר הפגם הזה של 'עיניים סיניות' ברשימת המומים במסכת בכורות, השיב הבעל, שפגם כזה לא צריך להיות כתוב באף מקום... "כיון שבני-אדם כמונו, שאינם מתגוררים בסין, מתביישים בכך, ובוודאי שעל-דעת זה לא נישאתי לאשה זו". [...]
"בכל זאת", קבע הרב, "אין המקרים דומים, כי בענין הריסים אכן מדובר בפגם שאינו נמצא אצל שאר בני האדם, אבל באשר לעיניים המלוכסנות - הרי שליש מכלל האנשים בעולם הם סינים, ויש להם עיניים כאלה... ולכן אי אפשר לומר שזה הוא פגם..."
"אולי העיניים שלנו, הישרות, הן הלא-רגילות, ועיניה של האשה הן הרגילות בעולם" נאמר.
אחד המשתתפים בשיעור שאל מה היה הדין אם היה נולד לבני הזוג ילד כהה עור ("כושי" כלשונו), והרב השיב שכאן יהיה הדין שונה, "כיוון שכושי הוא קללה שקילל השי"ת את חם בן-נוח, אבל עיניים מלוכסנות של סינים? אינן קללה, כי לשליש מבני העולם יש עיניים כאלה".
This happens when marriage is about an innate object happened to be called a woman that is viewed and used solely for baby production without engaging the concept of a relationship. In other words, the default mentality in yeshivos which many break out of later but not all do.
ReplyDeleteIsn't this a 'moom' by a cohen?
ReplyDeleteAnd if she had surgery to remove it, obviously it is a 'moom'.
2. Its common in china for people of means to have surgery to have a qwestern look. Thus, its even a 'moom' in china.
Lulei demistafina, a few criticisms on the psak. By having the operation, she herself admitted that slanted eyes is not something favorable even in her own eyes. It is very prevalent today to have such an operation by many Far Eastern women which shuld be considered as their own testimony as not being favorable. Talmud states if you want to have pretty children, marry a pretty wife, and as soon as he established that the children have and will have children with slanted eyes, he objected, hence a mekach taus shelo sovar velo kibel. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and the beholder says such is not beauty regardless of how many other people of same descent do have. Venikso venizreo zora, having light skinned and pretty children is a favorable trait and a blessing. Same should apply to nose jobs, you must disclose them beforehand a before and after.
ReplyDeleteThere are men who go for surgeries to become women...
ReplyDeleteThere are also women who go for surgeries to become men, and we even say "shelo asani isha..." so isin't that a moom...?
I am afraid you are right...
ReplyDeleteAnd acne treatment and predisposition to anything that could run in families etc. I guess every marriage is a mekach taus!
ReplyDeleteWhile I feel for the wife and have no argument with the psak, the husband's position is not unreasonable. Even if he loves his wife, Eretz Yisrael is very race-sensitive. It will not be easy getting his children into yeshivas or marrying them off. He didn't sign on for that. And these were matters that the wife should have discussed with him before the marriage. How would you feel if your wife deceived you?
ReplyDeleteIt's in vogue for kushim to change their features and even their skin color by bleaching. Go teach them hayahfoch kushi es oro, venomer chbarburosov. In any which case, the talmudic rules need be applied. Something he can prove he wasn't aware, was there from Adam, takes action immediately, something that people cannot live with and still need a get.
ReplyDeletethe issue is deceived about what? Not all deception warrants being called mekach ta'os. What if she didn't mention that she had her teeth straightened? or that she was once fat but dieted before she went out? What if she says she was a beis yaakov graduated but in fact went to public school for 2 years?
ReplyDeleteThe condition has to be serious enough that most people would be upset about being deceived - AND on finding out the truth immediately moved out. He obviously didn't feel that way but stayed in the marriage - now he is looking for some sort of leverage to reduce what he would have to give her. Not aware that anyone would consider that mekach ta'os.
A mechusser eivar is a mum, vechol yesser kenital damya. A mum overes is not a mum. True, but the feminists say shelo ossani ish
ReplyDeleteHe went ahead and tied the knot without as much as an inquiry about her background? He knew that she was a giyores, I assume. So what nationality did he think she originated from? With the pitch black hair, she might have been Indian. Would he be fine with Indian? It obviously didn't matter to him enough to warrant an inquiry, so it seems a little bit disingenuous to be claiming mekach taus. Or is it just slitty eyes that he personally doesn't like? By the way it would probably be less traumatic for the family to just give the kids the eye unslit surgery than to wreck the family. And about getting them into yeshivos, I think that any yeshiva that would otherwise accept children of gairim, would accept these children too. Or were they planning to deceive the yeshiva into believing they were of Jewish ancestry, until the yeshiva has an issue with one of the kids misbehaving and then they will find out everything and claim mekach taus too.
ReplyDeleteIf he stayed in the marriage, RMF writes that he "waived" the mekach taut (as far as the woman, though feminists are claiming the wife was not of "sound mind" in temporarily staying in the marriage. RMK and RIG suspiciously do not discuss did TF know about her newly found ibjections during the marriage and stay on report).
ReplyDeleteHow long do we need to tolerate zilbersteins stupidity
ReplyDeleteAmazing. You have one story of man bites dog, and you have decided to slander all yeshivot as to their mentality towards marriage.
ReplyDelete1) How do you if this guy ever even learned in Yeshiva? If he did, how do you know that he is not a YU or Gush product?
2) Interestingly, those pesky yeshiva products have a much, much lower divorce rate than others. Must be that they know quite a bit about relationships. Conversely, Western civilization has a declining marriage rate, and a divorce rate hovering at about 50%.
This nonsensical rant happens when life is unfulfilling, and the only thing that will pathify the nagging emotions is slandering others. In other words, the default mentality in centrist institutions which many break out of later but not all do.
The average person can distinguish between a man discovering after marriage that all of his children will look foreign in a largely homogeneous and גזעני society and finding out his wife used to be a fatty. Its not even a question of mekach taus. Its a question of integrity.
ReplyDeletean innate object happened to be called a woman
ReplyDeleteIs English your mother tongue? Can you explain what in the world that phrase is supposed to mean?
And since he stayed in the marriage after finding out the truth - that means what? That it took several years to realize that he had been deceived or perhaps it took several years to realize how terrible the deception was?
ReplyDeleteAdoni! ROFL SAVLANUT, bevakasha
ReplyDeleteWhoops. The blurb appearing on your blog does not mention that the husband complained after fathering two additional children. I retract everything.
ReplyDeleteMaybe with the dysfunctional yeshiva education system, the husband didn't know chinese tend to slanty eyes.
ReplyDeleteThis is the deciding point. He stayed in the marriage for a number of years AFTER he knew that she was Chinese. Sovar vi'kibel! I don't see how this case even starts.
ReplyDeleteHe can divorce her. So is his desire for a mekach taos declaration simply only to avoid posting the kesuba?
ReplyDeleteI enjoy reading Rav Zilberstein's books not necessarily because I agree with his piskei halochah but rather because of the interesting cases he deals with. The issue here is if the corrected slanted eyes constitute a mum nistar or not. If it is a mum nistar and he never found out until later and once he did he was not moichel than it could very well be a case of mekach to'us.
ReplyDeleteIf he had, for example, a second child with her after the first one than even if it was a mum baseter by having a second child it's mashmah that he was moichel her and therefore cannot claim mekach to'us lemafreah.
The fact that 1/3 of the world has slanted eyes is of no consequence at all as the real question is: Would it be considered a mum in the Yiddishe Welt? Would this person be matzliach in shidduchim with Chinese facial features? I'm not saying one way or another but the truth of the matter is that that person's options would be severely diminished.
Regarding black people, I find it disgraceful to say in a shiur that since a klolah was placed on them it would certainly be a mekach to'us. Nowadays, just like you can't say an Italian is a descendant of Esav (who's not eligible to undergo geirus) because the nations have been dispersed and mixed we can't in a million years say that today's black people are the descendants of Cham. Was Zipporah bas Yisro a case of Mekach To'us?
I advise anyone interested in learning more about cases of Mekach To'us in Kiddushin and Gittin to visit the online archives of the Rabanut. There are many interesting cases with a clear description of the problems, a thourough analysis and well founded psakim.
In all likelihood she doesn't want to accept a Get and, as per Cherem d'Rabbeinu Gershon, a husband cannot divorce his wife "sheloh mi'da'atah". Hence, he claims mekach to'us so as to bypass the need for a Get.
ReplyDeleteSome topics should not be discussed on the internet. Someone with daas Torah should know better
ReplyDeletetrue we should continue to think we can control information to present a positive vision - even if it isn't so.
ReplyDeleteActually the only ones who are being deceived are us