The simple answer is there was not any solid evidence against him and that apparently none of his victims was willing to file a complaint against him. Furthermore he apparently was careful to only seduce adult women and this was not a crime until after the Motti Elon accusations a number of years ago when it was made a crime in Israel for a teacher to have sexual relations with a student. It is only a crime in some states for a teacher or rabbis or other senior figure to have sex with a subordinate. It is also clear that in fact his teaching career was severely curtailed and that eventually no one wanted to hire him.
Question remains as to what mechanism is available for publicizing such predators. You might recall that I was recently threatened with criminal charges by a pedophile for merely reporting the public information that he had been convicted, served a jail term and is currently listed on the sex offenders registry in America. Rabbi Yakov Horowitz was in fact sued by the same pedophile for the same reason.
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Unorthodox Jew Paul Mendlowitz June 23, 2016
I was informed Meir Pogrow, allegedly, was a sexual predator many years ago, and asked to post about him...The issue was, at the time, I could not get written and signed testimony from at least 2 women/girls that were willing to put their names on the allegations. I did all I could do in private communications with various people to stop Pogrow from remaining a teacher. I believed them, people do not make these things up. I am happy that they found the strength to come forward with their stories. I wish them all the very best in their healing process and the best life has to offer.
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Times of Israel by Dr. Michael Salamon June 24, 2016
Pogrow, often referred to as a brilliant and charismatic Torah, scholar taught at Yeshiva University High Schools in Los Angeles, Michlahlah seminary in Jerusalem, and at the Kollel of Aish HaTorah in Jerusalem and Austin, Texas. He first appeared on my radar about eight years ago when Riva (not her real name) a woman in her early twenties came to therapy following some time at the seminary in Israel. She was anxious, depressed, and afraid that she could never get married or ever trust men. She described a relationship with a rabbi at the seminary who was challenging but also extremely demanding. She complained, “He got into my head somehow and it messed me up.” As we worked through Riva’s anguish and concerns, she described how a man of prominence used his position and his intellect to groom her, manipulate her, and ultimately have her do his bidding. With time, she told me his name.
I checked back with other young women I had worked with who attended the same schools. None had been willing to provide his name in the past, but when I asked if it was he, they all said yes. I asked Riva to report him. She felt that she could not because on the one occasion that she had tried, the administrator she went to did not believe her. In fact, Riva said that she felt “belittled” by the person to whom she tried to report him.
With Riva’s permission, I called someone I had contact with to report Pogrow. I was told, “He is a problem, but because the women are adults there is nothing that can be done.” I tried another person. “He is a bad guy,” I was told with little more than a shrug of the shoulders.
This situation is unfortunately no different from far too many others. Abusers are often smart, manipulative professional liars who choose victims carefully and deliberately and abuse victims repeatedly. Overwhelmingly, when someone finally gets the courage to overcome the resistance to make a complaint, it must be treated as a fact. Unfortunately, reports of abuse are still minimized. If someone reports having being abused, it is a fact that they are telling the truth.People in position of power do not want to deal with bad news particularly if it may harm their institution.
This hesitancy allowed Pogrow and others like him to get away with their evil. Even in cases where a director or board acts against an abuser and dismisses him, there is no attempt to alert other organizations and protect other potential victims. Ultimately, this gives the perpetrator license to keep at his evil.
The Beit Din ruling addresses some of these errors, albeit late. The call for restricting contact with this abuser should apply to all abusers and we should not have to wait 20 years for an abusers name to be broadcast.
Frum Follies Yerachmiel Lopin June 20, 2016
Pogrow’s misconduct was known for many years by many parties. In 2001 he was forced out of employment by the Michlala Seminary in Jerusalem because of sexual exploitation of students. His wife was kept on and she kept bringing home students and she was kept on for quite a few years. But nobody else was publicly warned.
After six years of working for Aish Hatorah including one running their kollel in Austin, Texas, he was forced out around 2006 for sexual misconduct with women.
He formed Master Torah in 2007 because nobody would hire him. Over the years he had fewer and fewer speaking engagements in mainstream orthodox settings because word kept spreading about him and he was largely confined, if hired, to work with males. The last significant engagement I can find was 2011 with Chabad. Yet the broader public was not warned.
Yerachmiel, sounds like you are well acquainted with the whole history. So I am left wondering why we had to wait for Tamara Schoor? Why didn’t you come out with something before she had to stick her neck out publicly?
Keep up your great work
Keep up your great work
Considerations that I am not free to disclose. I did in fact investigate extensively hoping for this moment. You will notice that my recent post on Pogrow had a lot, and there is a lot more coming out, most of it gained through research I did two years ago.
I guess those considerations must be very serious. It must be a difficult balance to strike, between keeping confidences on the one hand, and on the other hand knowing that more innocents could fall victim at any time. Maybe you could write about that balance…
06/23/2016 AT 8:47 PM
We lived in the Pogrow’s neighborhood. 17 years ago, Pogrow was arrested for inappropriate sexual misconduct with a 10 year old boy who took a ride with him as did other kids to school each day in the Old City. He was released on bale and four years later the case was closed. Two of the minors who witnessed the abuse on several occasions and even a rabbi who travelled in the,car daily who admitted that Pogrow’s verbal banter in the car was inappropriate and that he himself would not have wanted his child to be in the car with Pogrow, refused to give evidence. They were friends of Pogrow and even though they knew his crime, they preferred to protect the pervert rather than protect future victims. Imagine how many destroyed lives could have been saved if people who knew of his sick perverse side had done the responsible thing and acted upon צדק צדק תרדוף.
Dr. Natan Slifkin June 23, 2016
I first heard reports about Meir's inappropriate behavior over a decade ago. That itself, however, obviously raises a question. While these cases are complicated, and there are all kinds of factors to consider, there remains to be more light shed on why it took so long for the condemnation to appear, and how last week he could be perfectly acceptable as a maggid shiur but this week he is a rasha with whom one must not associate. (I am not saying that there aren't any good answers to this question - there may well be. But I think that, if there are good answers, they should be made known, rather than leaving it up to people to speculate.)
Dr. Natan Slifkin: "(I am not saying that there aren't any good answers to this question - there may well be. But I think that, if there are good answers, they should be made known, rather than leaving it up to people to speculate.)"
ReplyDeleteExactly! True Justice will not occur until our society excersizes significantly more transparency
Interesting phrase - "true justice" - but as I noted before transparency tends to have a down side. For example the names of the victims of abuse are generally not published. A clear violation of transparency. Getting the right balance is difficult and simply repeating we need more transparency is not very helpful. While it is true that if all known facts are published it leaves less room for speculation - it doesn't stop it. BTW who killed President Kennedy?
ReplyDeleteI agreed with you earlier that transparency has a down side and that getting the right balance is difficult. But getting the right balance is necessary and essential. The right balance does not exist now. It is helpful to remind people to be dissatisfied with today's excessive lack of transparency. Dissatisfaction creates an adaptive urge to seek solutions.
ReplyDeleteInformation and transparency reduce speculation and earn our society’s trust in the powers that be (dayanim, rabbis, educators, askanim, etc.) to act in our society’s best interest. Information and transparency allow us the opportunity to judge their performance on behalf of the greater good. When we trust them, we tend to accept their discretion to keep certain information confidential.
However, when the powers unnecessarily withhold information, when the powers demonstrate that transparency is not an important value, speculation increases, our society’s trust in the powers erodes, and people seek other solutions. The powers would like us to trust them (as many trusted Pogrow) by virtue of their popularity and their many fine peripheral character traits and achievements. Many do trust them for these reasons (and have also been victimized by them, at times), but these are not logical reasons for the development of trust. Only past performance of a particular trait is a logical reason to trust the continued performance of that particular trait.
The goal is not to eliminate speculation (impossible), but to reduce it, increase our society’s trust in the powers (when deserved), and thereby discourage people from pursuing less effective solutions. With all its failings, our society itself is the best to judge if the powers are performing in society’s best interest.
Who killed President Kennedy? I believe Oswald did. Was the government at the time, and since then, as transparent as they could afford to be? I think not. This lack of transparency erodes much of society’s trust in the government and encourages people to seek other solutions, albeit inferior ones.
Will now know why
ReplyDeleteHe was protected by shmuel Kaminetsky
Slifkin:
ReplyDeleteI first heard reports about Meir's inappropriate behavior over a decade ago.
So, why in the world did you remain silent? How can you be so evil as to not warn innocent people. There certainly wouldn't be any reason to suspect you of lying, would there?
how last week he could be perfectly acceptable as a maggid shiur but this week he is a rasha with whom one must not associate.
You are fully aware that he wasn't a " perfectly acceptable as a maggid shiur" in many years - right? Well he hasn't been employed by an official institution in many years.
(I am not saying that there aren't any good answers to this question - there may well be. But I think that, if there are good answers, they should be made known, rather than leaving it up to people to speculate.)
It would be best if Dr. Nate would answer the questions about himself first. Additionally, did he bother asking the Beis Din these questions - or was it just part of his post against sending kids to Chareidi institutions? (Oh, and by Chareidi institutions we must mean YU high school in LA and Michlalah - as those were the "chareidi" institutions he taught at.)
I shouldn't bother replying to an anonymous person who writes with such a lack of menschlechkeit, but due to the gravity of the topic, I will.
ReplyDelete"So, why in the world did you remain silent?" I heard it as a third-hand rumor. I checked to make sure that the community rav knew about it, and he did.
"You are fully aware that he wasn't a " perfectly acceptable as a maggid shiur" in many years - right?" No, actually last week someone asked one of the dayanim if they could attend his shiur, and they were told that they can, until a public announcement says otherwise.
I shouldn't bother replying to an anonymous person who writes with such a lack of menschlechkeit
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry that you feel that I lack "menschlechkeit". However, I would suggest that you tend to your garden first and focus on your own "menschlechkeit" and your own potential failings.
I heard it as a third-hand rumor. I checked to make sure that the community rav knew about it, and he did.
You're right. You didn't publicize anything about him since you did not have proper evidence and weren't certain of his guilt. You're telling us that the nameless community rav you approached also heard it as a third or fourth hand rumor. Why should he have publicized what you were unable to publicize? Why the double standard?
No, actually last week someone asked one of the dayanim if they could attend his shiur, and they were told that they can
The danger he poses is only to women. Was it a woman who was told that they can attend his shiur?
Additionally, which shiur? Where was he giving shiurim? Are you referring to listening to his recordings? Is listening to recordings of a almost-convicted pedophile speak about light bulbs a direct danger?
The danger he poses is only to women.
ReplyDeleteIs that so? A commenter posted here last week that he knows of a case where he molested a 10-yr-old boy.
"Why should he have publicized what you were unable to publicize?"
ReplyDeleteTwo reasons. First of all, I am not in a community leadership position, whereas he is. Seconf, what I discovered a few days ago, is that this community leader did not hear a third-hand rumor. He found out that Pogrow had actually been arrested. And a lot more. (To clarify - as I wrote in my post, I am not saying that there are no good reasons as to why he didn't publicize it. But I think that they should be made public, since the question is so strong.)
"The danger he poses is only to women. Was it a woman who was told that they can attend his shiur?"
No, it was a man, attending his shiur. So if Pogrow doesn't pose a danger to men, why was it forbidden for the man to attend his shiur this week?
First of all, I am not in a community leadership position, whereas he is.
ReplyDeleteExcuse me? Has this stopped you for stating your opinions, deriding and attacking communal customs and community leaders? Why would you not put out a notice to save innocents. Would you not stop people from entering a burning apartment if you're not the super of the building?
Seconf, what I discovered a few days ago, is that this community leader did not hear a third-hand rumor. He found out that Pogrow had actually been arrested.
Pogrow has been arrested in the past? Can we get a copy of his arrest and what he was charged with? Why has this not been reported anywhere?
No, it was a man, attending his shiur. So if Pogrow doesn't pose a danger to men, why was it forbidden for the man to attend his shiur this week?
Actually, where did you see that it is forbidden for men to attend his shiur? It is still not forbidden. It is simply disgusting to listen to him teaching - not forbidden.
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/06/meir-pogrow-rav-chaim-malinowitz.html
“'He got into my head somehow and it messed me up.'”
ReplyDeleteHere we have a roadmap on how to address and prevent abuse. Teach students how to be aware when someone is attempting to "get into [their] head."
another Jacob Frank, except this is a talented lamdan who made his way to the top of the Kollel
ReplyDeleteSadly, Torah study is not a "cure" for rashaim , yetzer hara, or mental illness. Sadly, the structure of the Yeshiva , frum and even MO world is such that .. we make the chazakah that fellow Jews are tzaddikim, and then we can make a kal v'chomer that a big Talmid chacham, a rosh kollel must therefore be even more righteous than the average Joe.
ReplyDeleteThe good and the innocent, which are the vast majority in the frum world, must not be victim to the rashaim in the garb of frumness.