Weinstein was found dead in her car on Sunday after years of estrangement from her Gerrer hassidic family, and her story continues to make waves in Israeli public discourse. The circumstances surrounding the tragic event have sparked debate about the Gerrer hassidic community, its social norms and practices (especially as pertains to the treatment of women), and attitudes within religious circles to those who leave religious observance.
Weinstein left a will explaining her reasons for taking her own life and a tell-all book about her life story. She accuses the Gerrer community of forbidding her children from having any contact with her once she left religious observance, and cites the disconnect from her family as the main cause of her emotional suffering, leading to her suicide. Many in the press have put the blame for the tragedy squarely on Weinstein's family and the Gerrer hassidic and wider haredi community in general. The veteran channel 10 reporter thinks this is grossly unfair.[...]
Ben-Haim opens with his impressions from the funeral itself:
"This is what injustice looks like. We came to Esti Weinstein's funeral today expecting to meet her evil and cold-hearted family and instead met a noble and sensitive family, we heard a eulogy from a loving haredi father and an explanation and request for forgiveness from a hurting haredi daughter.
"All of this means that we need to rewrite the entire story of the past 48 hours and tell the truth: everything you heard about the wickedness of the haredi side was a lie."
The Channel 10 reporter then goes into detail, discussing individual claims made in the press, going point by point through the events, in chronological order:
"Something about this seemed fishy to me from the beginning. First it was claimed that the haredi family members were going to snatch the body to bury it on their own terms. I called and spoke with the family. They were shocked by the idea, 'Of course not! Heaven forbid!'. I don't need to tell you that no one actually tried to snatch the body.
"Next they said that Weinstein's daughters broke off contact from their mother because of a cruel order from the Admor [leader of a hassidic community]. I called again, I spoke with the family, and they swore that there was no directive from the Admor and explained that this was not a religious issue at all, merely a human one. The girls were angry at their beloved mother who simply up and left them one day 7 years ago. Hence the estrangement.
"Afterwards they said that the haredim are demanding she be buried outside of the cemetery walls. I called, spoke with the family, and they were shocked by the idea, 'she was a good mother, we love her. We never had any such plans.'
"Then they said that they don't intend to sit Shiva [week-long mourning period in Jewish law] for Esti. I called, spoke with the family, they were shocked by that idea too. No such thing had ever crossed their minds.
"Next, they said that the family is demanding a small and quick haredi funeral that will demean Esti's memory. I called. Spoke with the family. They said this was untrue and that they had every intention of honoring their late mother's wishes, having already made clear that they have no problem with there being flowers and songs at the funeral [as per Weinstein's instructions in her will].
"Then the courts were petitioned to make sure that the funeral will be held with a secular atmosphere (not that songs and flowers really make a funeral 'secular'), and it was reported that the secular side won as the court ruled against the haredi family. But the haredi family never sent anyone to the hearing to contest any of this and wasn't even part of any fight. They didn't want to fight about this and there was no need to 'beat them' in court, for as I've already written, the family wanted to honor Esti's non-haredi wishes.
"After that, it was claimed that the family was boycotting the funeral, which would indeed be the height of cruelty. But then... well, then we saw a large group of haredi Gerrer hassidic women arriving at the funeral, sobbing, and sad Gerrer hassidic men, all standing to the side, quietly and politely, and waiting for the time when they will be able to take part in the proceedings. We heard the father eulogizing his daughter, and the eldest daughter Raheli eulogizing her mother. No haredi told Raheli that she wasn't allowed to speak in this kind of forum because she's a girl.
"It was then that I understood that this week, a grave injustice was committed among the Jewish people." [...]
Ben-Haim's post ends with a quote of the full text of Weinstein's eldest daughter's eulogy, excerpts from which were available before the funeral and were published by Arutz Sheva.
I would agree that the press had a field day and that not all was entirely true, nonetheless it was not all lies either.
ReplyDeleteThis whole case is very sad and rabbis instructing family members to have no contact with a family member that has left the fold is not uncommon.
Sadly there have been cases where children have been taken from their mother and all efforts are made to prove that the mother or father is unstable and mental.
I am not saying that this is exactly the case here
so if it didn't happen here or you have no evidence it happened here - why mention it?
ReplyDeletewhy not mention child abuse, drug addiction etc etc. There are a not of negative things which did happen here but "hey why not mention it"
Ok from my experience of the frum world I do believe that the rebbe did tell them to sever contact with Esti, but I did not hear it first hand therefore I can not categorically say for 100%
ReplyDeleteWhat knowledge do you have of the Gerer Rebbe? What knowledge and supposed experiences do you have in the Frum world where children are alienated from parents (besides those who are trying to give them a spiritual death)?
ReplyDeleteI know a chasid (not Ger) who checked himself into a detox and recovery center. The chasidus took advantage of his absence to successfully persuade his wife and children to sever contact with him. Upon his discharge months later, after successfully completing the treatment at the center, he discovered that his wife, children, and chasidus had abandoned him.
ReplyDeleteAnd therefore what? Was he abusive? Was he a danger to his family? It is not realistic to say that his sole problem was that he need to go to detox
ReplyDeleteI assume what you are saying is that no matter what problem a person has their spouse and children should not be abandoned?
What if Mrs. Weinstein had murdered one of her daughters? Would we have had such rachmonus for her? She did murder one daughter by causing her to lose her olam haba which is worse than killing her b'olam hazeh.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe she should have been buried in a kosher Jewish cemetery. She appears to have become a complete kofer.
He was not abusive. He was not a danger to his family. However, even if he had been, he acknowledged his problems and took a genuine, major, concrete step to correct himself: He checked himself into a rehabilitation center. The community leadership and his family should have waited for him to complete his therapy. Then, slowly and cautiously, they should have given him a chance to prove that he had indeed corrected himself, that he had done teshuva. Instead, they rejected and abandoned him wholesale upon his sincere COMMENCEMENT to do teshuva. And he did teshuva! Shame on the community leadership and his family members and their twisted Torah views!
ReplyDeleteTherefore, when we hear that certain communities have a policy of directing family members to sever contact with another family member UNJUSTIFIABLY, we should not dismiss the notion out of hand. There’s a good chance that it’s true!
It is difficult to pass judgment on a community based on what a 3rd party anonymous commenter claims are the facts - without giving the community to say whether these facts are true and whether there was any circumstances which influenced their decision.
ReplyDeleteTo generalize from your assertions to a general rule about "certain communities" is absurder and useless. To say just as your allegations are true in one case there is a good chance they are true here - is even more useless. Zero +zero is still zero
And I believe a person like you that judges others should also not be buried in a Jewish Cemetary
ReplyDeleteU've got it all wrong, u see people that do teshuvah are forgiven by HKBH but not the Rabbonim and the kehillah.
ReplyDeleteFor example if a person is a child abuser or raped someone or his wife, such a person is forgiven by the Rabbonim and kehillahs
So have said so many of she'eiris hapleitah of Polish Jewry and more. Satmar rebi however said, that any Jew carrying the tatooed serial number on their arm from Yimach shemam, goes straight to gan eden. If you can bochen libos and see what she suffered in her state of mind, she is not a Kofer C'V'. She cried her heart out, korosi vein *Oineh* vedimoso al lechyah, and Shomea kol bichyos promised us Sha'arei Dmo'os lo Ninalu!
ReplyDeleteLike Dovid to his son ...
Biti, Biti, Esti, Esti, Biti, Biti...
At sham lemaala, Muchan umzuman lechayei Olam haba.
Like Chana veshiva baneha that died for her children, are there to welcome her at the door!
Dear Abba and his daughter Esti z'l, asher bechayehem veafilu bemosah lo nifrodi.
T.N.Z.B.H.
Dear R' Menachem, bevakasha lehitNachem
Did you realize that she suffered from serious emotional and mental health issues?
ReplyDeleteShe appears to have become a complete kofer.
Is that why she wrote that she does believe in the Torah in her will? Is that why she wrote that she will never forgive a certain person (for not helping in bringing her children closer to her)?
how did you see her will?
ReplyDeletelink? please
Thank you for publishing my post and allowing others to also consider its value.
ReplyDeletethank you for making contributions to a healthy discussion
ReplyDeleteThe Torah is the one that commands how to treat kofrim. The whole world today wants to melemed zchus on them and condemn the righteous. It's time to listen to the Torah for a change.
ReplyDeleteKeep your misguided curses to yourself.
How was that determined? It didn't stop her from ruining her daughter.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the will? Who published it? If she believed in the Torah why did she abandon her children and take her daughter off the derech?
What does bringing her children closer have to do with her belief in Yiddishkeit?
Shaarei dimaos is for those that cry to Hashem and not some misguided cry from a self ruined life.
ReplyDeleteBiti, Biti...
Should we give a pass to every kofer? Melamed lekaf zechus is for kisheirim and maybe bainunim but not for reshaim.
Do you know something personally about her that is not disclosed in the general story?
Not sure how that route brings you to Gan Eden. If you want to stop people from being *hasty* or *too hasty* to judge you someone, nunu, but to be so sure of yourself and to give a havtochoh (like even a rebbe, perhaps) is simply gone to far deep ....deep end that is. Which reminds me of what Hutner zt"l, said that the kfirah of nowadays (his later days, I'm sure....all the more now,) is kefirah in bechirah, think about it...
ReplyDeleteYou seem to have that thing that she is not responsible for her actions. You need to provide the proof that a capable person who can run normal life is selectively insane and cannot have minimal resposibility of keeping Mitzvos and looking after her children. I do not deny that she may have had a real problem that was not her fault but you take it to the absolute extreme.
ReplyDeleteIs that why she wrote that she does believe in the Torah in her will?
She still did not keep Shabbos and that made her a kofer. (there is also kfira in her will [i do not want to quote it here]).
The comparison to the the holocaust is baseless. You are probably unaware of what was the reality then.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, the comparison represents disrespect to the holocaust survivors community
As far as I could tell, this was an anti religious screed produced by chilonim without any input from the family. Why should this have any credence?
ReplyDeleteThe lawyer Moshe Os'ditsher who has a program with Benny Rabbinowitz on Radio Kol Chai is interviewed. - He is chareidi and has plenty of credence
ReplyDeleteHere is some food for thought.
ReplyDeleteYitamu chatoim...
Af al pi shechoto yisrael hi.
Her Elokim was ripped out of her heart, veonus hi
Hashem was her best friend.
She contemplated of giving tshuva a chance, is that what you call a Koifer C'V'
Have you a clue what it feels like in such a desparate moment of a critical crisis? What were King Shaul's thoughts before he took his life, or Chana veshiva baneha. She just could not take it anymore! velama li chayim? She died for her children she so desperately missed
Misa mechaperes.
What do you know what went through her mind in the last moments, nosno rosheho bein birkah vetovoh, halo zu Torah vezu schoroh? That is emunah talking to Hashem in her most desperate moments, vesha'arei demaos lo ninalu, uporcho nishmosah vehechzir leyoitzra veyotzo betaharah. veyesh kone oilomoi besho'o achas. Her last years went with yisurim that brought her to this breaking point and died of a broken heart. enough said
I also would like to dedicate this song of Chaim Moshe IMA IMA to Ima Esty. It penetrates the heart, and I think Ima Esty milMa'ala would also like it.
ReplyDeletehttps://play.riffstation.com/results?q=%22Haim+Moshe%22
אמא, אמא את שם למעלה עודך בוכה, עודך ...
Haim Moshe lyrics
IMA, IMA
IMA
Amok amok, rachok rachok
odech omedet mul einai
im hachiyuch vehamabat,
uvetochi libi nitzbat.
Ima, ima, at sham lemalah
odech bocha, odech doma'at.
Odech yoshevet, ne'etzevet,
al hapreidah beterem et.
Gadalti kvar, eineni yeled
ach lo avosh ve'etvadah
uchsheko'ev, zichrech oleh
uchmo tinok ani boche.
Zocher chiyuch, zocher mabat,
uvetochi libi nitzbat. Ima!
Haim at sham, yoda'at ima
ki anafaich hem rabim
sho'alim tamid madu'a
eichah yavshu hashorashim?
Ima, ima...
Veshuv ani balev nishbar,
shav lesaper kol she'avar
alit k'dusha, el ham'romim
umal'achim otach shom'im
zocher chiyuch, zocher mabat
uvetochi libi nitzbat.
MOTHER, MOTHER
MOTHER
Very deep, very far
You're still standing in front of my eyes
with the smile and the look,
and within me, my heart is gripped.
Mother, mother, you are up there
You're still crying, you're still weeping.
Still crying, still sorrowful,
over the separation before its time.
I grew up already, I'm not a child
but I won't be ashamed or proven false
and when it hurts, your memory comes
and like a toddler I cry.
I remember the smile and the look,
and within me, my heart is gripped. Mom!
Are you there, do you know Mom
for your branches are many
they're always asking why
how did the roots go dry?
Mother, mother...
And I break down in my heart again,
I return to tell all that happened
you rose as a saint, to the high places
and angels hear you
I remember the smile and the look,
and within me, my heart is gripped.
What raayos do you have that she had these thoughts? Why didn't she just get divorced and marry some other kosher yid with which she could have kept the Torah?
ReplyDeleteThese thoughts that you are expressing are fine thoughts but do they have any relation to reality? If a beis din were asked to pasken if she should be buried in a Jewish cemetery, what would they have paskened?
It's all very sad but without a raaya I don't see how you could come to this conclusion.
Read it again. You missed that she took a fall for him, and he double crossed her and pitted her children against Esty. How could you not fathom that excruciating pain.That tells us that she was a Tzadekes. There is much more to the story they are willing to admit, and even Esty didn't elaborate mipnei kvod hachayim and her children veda"l. Again, I am telling you she was a Tzadekes, and the pain and agony she went through, "m'zol upgehitten veren", "m'zol nisht geprivt veren". Poor Esty, chaval al deabdin velo mishtakchin. And Yes, the Beis DIn already made change right after this tragedy.
ReplyDeleteher husband broke her and as The chareidi lawyer Moshe Osiditsher says the husband has her blood on his hands. - he took her to massagist - stripped her , forced to have sex with other man and then said since he was forbidden to him, they might as well enjoy themselves - couple switching - during the day she reverted to her role.Then when she wanted to break away and no longer be his - shifchat min - he took away her kids
ReplyDeleteWhat proof is there for what Osiditsher says? Where did he get this information?
ReplyDeleteWith this statement you are saying that the whole family is corrupt and should be avoided at all costs. From the reversal side of the story brought by the other reporter, it would seem that this is not true.
I said the husband has blood on his hands, the parents kept contact with her , the daughters brainwashed, insecurity etc , they should be forgiving and understanding now what their mother went through.and not make accusations against her mother that she can't answer unless she reads her book. the other reporter spoke about the family , not about the ex husband . it was in his interest and Gur at large that she would be buried in a quiet funeral. Outsiders , not the family - parents , daughters ? threatened the organizers of a more secular funeral and there was a danger of the body being stolen. I assume you saw my links - imho esti's book , written by a dedicated and holy mother is surely not creative writting , For me Osditsher is credible and said very publicly that the husband is responsible
ReplyDeletehere is a rebuttal of Avishai Ben Haim's post. He failed to investigate and so missed out on the double game of Askani Gur - private intimidation tactics while in public not contesting the daughter and brother http://www.20il.co.il/%D7%9B%D7%9A-%D7%A0%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%94-%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%95%D7%9C-%D7%A2%D7%99%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%90%D7%99
ReplyDeleteWhat she is, or is not, responsible for is something that I will leave up to G-d and the Beis din shel Maalah. It is none of my buisness, nor is it any of your buisness. (In fact, viewing favorably together with a bit of Mishah would be appropriate - if you care.)
ReplyDeleteWhat is relevant to us is to walk away with a bit more compassion, and to learn whatever lessons we can. However, to try to make her representative of people and communities that she does not represent is wrong and dishonest. No emes and no emunah. But, to try to make her into an eveil person, and then try to make her representative of tens of thousands of good people is simply cruel. Very cruel.
Allan Allan, with all due respect, this is not what she wanted you to spill all the beans in public for her defense. She spared all this from him, her children and family, if not at least in public. Like Tamar, Esty A"H was meramez behavla'a like TAMAR and therefore she was called a TZADEKES... vatomer haker na lemi hachotemet vehaptilim vehamateh hoele. From which the Talmud deducts, noach lo leadam sheyapil letoch kivshon hoesh veal yachlim pnei chavero barabim! And THAT'S what brought on about being called a TZADEKES having the zchus of David haMelech as her descendant. I took the extra effort to skirt around it and spare her grief so as to respect Esty's wishes, even though that would help me convince those that refuse to forgive her. R'L', pilegesh begivah all over again! Shoimi Shamayim!!! I ask you all, KULAY HAY VEULAY???
ReplyDeleteSo now you know why she left the children instead of living in Gehinom with the Devil!
So now you know why she couldn't explain to the children why she must leave!
Those who say that she abandoned her efrochim, afra lepumayhu!!! veasidin liten olov es hadin!
Haratzachta vegam yarashta???
Can someone in her shoes remain shafui bedaatah?
She just couldn't take it anymore, velama li chayim.
Sahadei Bamromim, shenafsha yotzo betahara veolo leginzei meromim mitachas kisse hakavod. Amen
Fershteist
These shofchei domim of our TASHBAR keep on asking the same thing like you. Where is the RAGLAYIM? Where is the DOVOR. And when you give them the video, here is the proof, they then say like Yishmael Mitzachek anochi, fatherly love. When these tayere neshomos end up OTD and take end up taking their lives, ahhh... he was off the Derech. Have you no shame? Have you no decency? Yedeichem mleim dam, veken shafchu es hadam haze. For those asking was she molested? Who is on first? who is on second? You have the mateh ve'es hadam, and the psilim chokuk al mitzchom leos kayin. Kein hadovor hahi!!!
ReplyDeleteI don't understand your logic.If the facts are as what she claims - and I have no proof one way or the other - then what mother would simply walk away from her kids and leave them to the father? Furthermore even according to her own testimony she didn't show a high level of judgment or morality.
ReplyDeleteI would anytime take her word against his, even though she was exercising restraint for damage control. Nikorim divrei hoemes as she was bitterly pleading that she took a fall for him, and he then went straight into backstabbing. This guy went from tisha kavin prishus to assara kavin tiflus, meigra rome, lebira amiksa, vekol yeser kenital domi. Al tehi tzadik harbeh. Do these commendants enjoy listening in to the intimacies of yinge vablech? I thought the Shulchan Aruch says to be tzniusdig about such issues, more so for those Grande Commendants memune al hirayon. She never disclosed in the will the order, timing, and details how divorce came about and having her children taken away. In any case when more details will become public, we then can philosophize more about morality. Who knows, maybe he brought home some yedios from other sod H' lireiov rabonim, gilgulim and heteirim for tikunim from baalei mekubolim. Time will tell.
ReplyDeleteRight on! 100%
ReplyDeleteThank you. These are the same that deny the weberman scandal, lo haya velo nivra.
Boker veyoda H'
ReplyDeleteWhere are your facts, where is your proof that she was a kofer? Huh? link please.
ReplyDeleteSo they also said by weberschmutz.
ReplyDeleteyes time will tell - but why are you in such a rush to judgment when you admit you don't know what really happened?
ReplyDeleteThere is no rush and no need to. In her words, there are more than enough ingredients to condemn him. Entrapping her at his request just so that he can blame her for his own stiyot (only birmiza so as not to hurt family and children including cover for husband) and from there pounces on her to disenfranchise her of her children and pitting them against her R'L'. This is the epitome of Hratzachta vegam yarashta. From the Attorney's excerpts aka Ausditcher, you can check the validity of claims from the massagist, the other man involved, and swapping entities whether it's true. I am not into cross examination of details, but it already was validated in court/ BD and makes no difference as far as this argument is concerned. We are already after the facts and when we also find out more of the circumstances it all adds up to her side of the story. She took the fall for his sake just like TAMAR veYehuda to her credit and that talks volumes. About the Rabbi "Yehuda" she curses out, I don't know whether he was the Toen rabani or dayan and makes no difference to this debate, but he should be scrutinized for what he did. It sounds scandulous. Why was the Duss (as opposed to Dusste) more fit to have custody of the children? Or why not give her at least visitation rights to see them. See what brought her to suicide, nebach she was railroaded and couldn't take the pain and suffering anymore. So there, you can add shfichas domim on top of everything else. That is my humble opinion.
ReplyDeleteBo Ehud verotzo liftor es haolam min hadin. The person doesn't keep Shabbos or tznius and her daughter is not shomer torah anymore. No problem, hakol mutar loch, hakol mufar loch. You had tzoros so it doesn't matter what you do anymore.
ReplyDeleteLet's hope that you are right but what happened to the Torah? Bechol nafshecha - afilu hu notel es nafshecha, rachmona litzlan from such nisyonos.
Let's patter Soros. He was in the concentration camps so anything he does doesn't matter anymore.
Was she shomer shabbos? Does her daughter who she took with her keep the Torah? Even if she wasn't a kofer, who gets buried in a Yiddishe bais olam al pi din? Do mechalelai shabbos get in there (I am not saying she was but there are rules for who gets into a kosher bais olam)
ReplyDeleteIt is common practice to assume mental illness for suicides and have them buried in a Jewish cemetary
ReplyDeleteI was told that she didn't even try to get custody of the children
ReplyDeleteIs this true even when there are other issues besides just suicide?
ReplyDeleteYet the secular world is upset at the suggestion that she may have been mentally ill, that played a role in her going OTD.
ReplyDeleteWere you unaware that all the other issues you allude to only haapened after her first attempt at suicide? Did you realize that she never healed from what brought her to her first suicide attempt? How do you make such judgments about a person without knowing the elementary facts?
ReplyDeleteYou're fully within your right not to trust her. However, you are completely wrong to pass judgment on her as a person. (Her personal decisions are a different issue.)
According to rambam, suicide is bibchinat nitraf daato. About OTD, after all the redifus and theft of her children, pilegesh begivo, vechol shaar minei ta'atuim, is the chote umachti, veasidin liten olov es hadin. She is an oness, verachmonei potrei.
ReplyDeletesource please that the Rambam holds that someone who commits suicide has no bechira
ReplyDeleteI have seen lately that you can be oiver kol aveiros shebeoilom and get buried oiven un in Beis Oilom. You don't even have to be betzaar, you can do it lehano'oscho, leteiovon. Especially if you do tvila beyam bli chatzitza before yetzias neshomo.
ReplyDeletebechira man dechar shmei
ReplyDeleteI am not talking at all about her din in Shomaim. I am basically asking about the halacha of not burying someone with certain aveiros in the regular bais olam. What would the poskim say?
ReplyDeletewhy didn't she attempt to get custody?
ReplyDeleteShe definitely wanted them, but the scoundrel brainwashed the children and pitted them against her. She cries bitter tears and angst how he blackmailed her with a Pilegesh begivo, she wasn't able to even talk to them. Allan Katz has more direct info, kindly confer with him. ty
ReplyDeleteDon't see how this is defending Esti Weinstein
ReplyDeleteGo and ask poskim. If you choose to quote them, be sure to mention their names. Good luck.
ReplyDeletewhat does that mean. The children complained that she deserted them. Where did you get the information that the children were brainwashed into not wanting her?
ReplyDeleteInstead of trying to poke holes in the incomplete info at hand, why not present the whole 183 pages she wrote as well what took place at her divorce. The person she complained about Pilegesh begivo is here, the massagist is here, the swingers are here, neise sefer venechze!!! That would be more than a mouthful and we all will become much smarter. By incomplete, I do not mean insufficient enough to condemn shlomo. We need to understand why such a man full of tiflus up to his eyeballs, mean, heartless, tzarua vezav and menuval should get to raise the children. Did the children understand what shlomo did to their mother, first with kivyachol Prishus, then with mem tes shaarei Tiflus? How would you explain this to young children? Of course he stuffed them with his side of a story, thereby complainng she abandoned them. Having all these will tell so much more. As is, my sympathy is all with Esty zichrona livracha.
ReplyDeleteDoes notel es nafshecho include nitraf daato shel odom? BTW What is your opinion about Mr. Tisha kavin Prishus aka tiflus? Is he patur min hadin for Pilegesh begivoh, Huh? Where is his input in all this. Where is the input of Her Commendant? Does he have power to grant a Kupa shel Shrotzim vetoivel beyodo? if you ask me where is the proof, link please, it's all in the pudding. Read the book, ask the Attorney, then we talk.
ReplyDeleteFrom the will, ve'ein odom morish sheker lebonov.
ReplyDeleteTo be considered a suicide, the act must be ,
ReplyDelete**** with full and complete mental capacity****,
premeditated, announced in advance, and witnessed. If not, then even if it appears to be obvious:
The Rabbis accepted ******unbearable stress****** as a reason for a person to take his own life, considering Saul as the prototype for suicides *****by people who felt they too had no choice****,
Suicide is Evidence of Insanity. She even elaborated on this subject. She was besides herself, he drove her out of her mind. Achzar, Sadist to say the least. What is Mr. Mega Tiflus line of Defense?
Am I missing something?
you have got to be kidding!
ReplyDeleteNo seriously! How about Ein odom matzui leshaker beshaas misa. Yerushalmi Bava Kama 9:7
ReplyDeleteOr if you will, Ein odom meshateh beshaas misa. Bava Basra 175.
I wasn't aware that was accepted as proof of reality. Are death bed assertions automatically accepted as true in halacha - the equivalent of two witnesses?
ReplyDelete@ Mr. Allan Katz. How can I get a hold of the 183 pages. I would like read them. ty
ReplyDeleteThis story is so heartbreaking. Noone is to judge a yiddishe Mama whose children are torn from her. She swallowed so much garbage and carried the blame to protect them and their reputation, so that noone would know what a pervert heir father is. it is a mother who rather absorb the pan and hurt so that her children don't. This is a story of some very evil people who pushed her to this. It is highly unlikely she would have left the community she grew up in and married in, if they had shown her some support in getting away from an evil man. But he had the $$$ business and money. She was left penniless but for the clothing on her back. And now those evil people rather than take responsibility for what they did, chalk it up to her mental state. Yes, she tells them as it is -- they pushed her over the edge, they drove her crazy. By the end, she says she knows she was no longer sane. The damage had been done. But there is justice.... even though it sometimes seems to take its time... this woman's soul is surely at peace and with the very righteous. But for all her suffering, for those who hurt her, and tore her babes from her, there will never be any peace. In time their branches to the Jewish people will be cut off, just as they cut off this woman from her seven branches. Call it what it is -- avoda zora. They are all idol worshippers.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you blaming Esty for ruining her daughter? Maybe this daughter woke up and saw the religious hypocrisy of her father.
ReplyDeleteDo you think the pervert stopped acting out his perversions just because his wife ran away and said she refuse to be part of his toevah? Do you really believe the pervert was suddenly healed? Or maybe he continued in other forms that this daughter was privy to.
So much goes on behind closed doors that most will never know. And people don't necessarily owe the public an accounting, in order for them to understand. Just because you don't know, doesn't mean it didn't happen. And if you think you deserve an accounting, I might suggest you go handle your own perverted interest in other people's bedrooms with a psychiatrist.
Esti Weinstein made this a public spectacle and then you criticize people for commenting?!
ReplyDeleteher children were not torn from her - she deserted them! She clearly was not interested in protecting anyone's repuation - including her own. He biography can only be understood as a desire to hurt her children.
ReplyDeleteYou are simply making a lot of conjecture without any evidence. Someone who tries to commit suicide is not in the best of mental health.
in short your screed is nonsense
It makes sense that she either induced her daughter to stray or supported her in it because she went to live with her mother when all the other children did not. I don't know the absolute truth an either do you. However, I tend to go with logic rather than overweening misplaced rachmonus. However, Hashem Yisborach will decide and it's not up to us. Humans can only judge by what is apparent and she surely was only able to live her non religious lifestyle while together with her mother.
ReplyDeleteIf you have a problem with the probable truth, see a competent Orthodox rabbi.