Hi,
I just saw this clip and there are no words to describe it other than unreal.
http://matzav.com/watch-
What is wrong with our chareidi world today is everything literally upside down? I just don't understand it, there is a woman continuing to commit adultery because of him and they write a sefer torah to honor him. Am I missing something here??
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Below is a letter from Rav Steinman to Rav Kaminetsky
kvod harav
do you recall any letters sent from e'y rabbonim to the hundreds of hachnasas sifrei torah a year that take place in the USA or is this some political eishes ish letter??????
IMHO, the Kaminetskys dancing with a sefer Torah is a greater Chilul Hashem than women dancing with the Torah at the Koisel.
ReplyDeleteI guess it's true what they say, "ah Litvak hut a tsaylem unter dem hartz".
You have yet to come to terms that the rest of the Jewish world, outside of the 4 amos of this blog, do not have the same opinion of R' Shmuel as you do.
ReplyDelete1. I (we) are still baffled as to why the rest of the Jewish world has a different opinion of RSK.
ReplyDelete2. This blog is much wider than 4 amos.
“What is wrong with our chareidi world today is everything literally upside down? I just don't understand it, there is a woman continuing to commit adultery because of him and they write a sefer torah to honor him. Am I missing something here??”
ReplyDeleteI share Rabbi Eidensohn astonishment, wonder, surprise and amazement that the chareidi world in the USA is upside down. I don’t understand it either. There is a woman continuing to commit adultery because of him and the Philadelphia Yeshiva writes a sefer torah to honor him. I, too, ask---is there something I am missing?
Please see my Torah thought on this week’s parsha:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/19113
“And they said to one another, “Let us head back for Egypt.” Then Moses and Aaron fell on their faces before all the assembled congregation of the Israelites. And Joshua son of Nun and Caleb son of Jephunneh, of those who had scouted the land, rent their clothes and exhorted the whole Israelite community: “The land that we traversed and scouted is an exceedingly good land. If the Lord is pleased with us, He will bring us into that land, a land that flows with milk and honey, and give it to us; only you must not rebel against the Lord. Have no fear then of the people of the country, for they are our prey their protection has departed from them, but the Lord is with us. Have no fear of them!” (Numbers 14:4-9).
Could you please post a link for the halachik arguments regarding this issue. All I remember about the situation was a letter from a Rav is Israel who has cried wolf too many times.
ReplyDeleteAlso, please excuse me for saying so, but boxing with Reb Shmuel seems to be out of your league. Even if he does deserve it. Which is a decision which awaits that link.
you have got to be kidding! You apparently weren't paying much attention to the discussion.The material is readily available by searching tamar epstein or Kaminetsky.
ReplyDeleteThere is a pamphlet in one of the posts that has the major letters. I assume you missed reading the letters from Rav Feldman, Rav Shlomo Miller, Rav Feivel Cohen etc etc.
Given that you acknowledge you don't have the foggiest idea what is going on - your advice on the subject is not worth much
So your over-infllated ego answers my question. I repeat what I said before - you are boxing out of your league. Or in better words - you are acting like a clown who sticks out like a sore thumb. Since your perspective of yourself is a bit out of wack I really don't think there is a point of following this blog, not to mention your books. I don't have the time to fact check everything you write. Unfortunately, what could have been a worthwhile blog is irrelevant. A little work on your anava would do you wonders. Actually, a lot of work. But don't feel bad, this happens to many people who enjoy attention. I remember reading that the people who enjoying be at the center of attention are the type to become abusers - seeing themselves as gods. Perhaps this explains your obsession with this topic. Maybe deep down inside you wish you were the abuser.
ReplyDeleteBTW, You do need to realize that people stumble on to your blog and see things that are a big shocking. But then again, someone with an over-inflated ego can't see things in a different light.
BTW, I'm talking to you, no need to post his. But knowing you, you probably will. It goes with wanting to be the center of attention.
I suspect the rest of the Jewish world has no clue what happened here. The corruption was unreported and ignored by the jewish media. Only the few who read this blog know the full story.
ReplyDeleteSimple: Rav Kaminetsky is a great scholar and posek entitled to his own opinion in these matters. Wouldn't Rabbeinu Tam have the same problem with all those people ending Shabbos so soon?
ReplyDeleteThe next world is the Oilum Ha'Emes, but in this world of Sheker we get:
ReplyDeleteArafat, one of the greatest murderers of our time - is granted a Nobel peace prize.
Mondrowitz, from the greatest pedophiles of all time - lives uncharged, in peace in Eretz Yisroel.
Hillary Clinton, from the most self-absorbed power hungry individuals - will likely become president of the USA.
A Rosh Yeshiva, who facilitated Aishes Ish and future Mamzeiros, bluffed and lied about it, and continues to do so - is awarded a Sefer Torah.
Why? Too many people, whose own past and future Kovod depend on him - dare to accept the truth.
Avi you are right it is truly simple but you are wrong in characterizing this as a dispute between poskim. No one has said that Rav Kainetsky was right to obtain the heter. No one says that the heter has any halachic validity. No one says that the facts claimed by Rav Kaminetsky and son are true. No posek has said that Rav Kaminetsky doesn't owe Aharon Friedman a public apology.
ReplyDeleteRav Kaminetsky is simply saying that he is not accountable for promoting adultery, that he is not accountable for interfering with the Baltimore Beis Din that both parties had agreed to use. that he is not accountable publicly shaming Aharon Friedman in direct defiance of the Baltimore Beis Din. He is not accountable for using an invalid seruv against Aharon Friedman when he and his beis din and no halachic authority. That is not accountable for severely distorting the views of Rav Moshe Feinstein and slandering Aharon Friedman by saying he was crazy and not capable of being married.
This has nothing to do with a legitimate dispute as to when Shabbos is over, or what tefillin to wear or whether hand or machine matzo is best. This is simply a person acting as if he can decide what halachos he has to obey and which won he can ignore.
There you have it. Rabbi Eidensohn is very knowledgeable, and means well. But in his zeal to fight a system that, in his opinion, discriminates against and wrongs men, he has lost his objectivity on these matters.
ReplyDeleteyou forgot to describe what objectively I have lost? You don't think that Rav Kaminetsky has to observe universally agreed upon halacha?! Or are you saying I am too focused on truth and have forgotten my place in the pecking order?
ReplyDeleteso why do we hear nothing from all the Rabonim who wrote letters months ago when she got married? They gave out a yell and they were Yotzai? What about HOCHAYACH TOCHIACH... OVER AND OVER?
ReplyDeleteRabbi Eidenson Shlita, your comments below tell it like it is. But why are you almost alone?
as I said above in his zeal to help the Epstein family and supporters of his yeshivah R'SK instead of disqualifying himself from making a judgment , in his zeal the eyes of the wise and righteous got blinded
ReplyDeleteI am Rabbi Daniel Eidensohn's brother, a talmid of Reb Aharon Kotler and a musmach of Reb Moshe Feinstein and Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashev and others. I regularly get calls from gedolei hador congratulating me for fighting SK. I told one of them, a famous gadol I could talk to this way, "I am the only one who fights him because I don't have a job." A friend of mine, a major posek, was furious with SK, but told me, "I have relatives from his family." Nonetheless, he did attack him publicly very strongly. But others had a problem, although most of them did join in at the end. But people who need money for their Yeshivas and will antagonize wealthy people who support their Yeshiva may be more reluctant, but eventually, they also joined in. But the level of complaint reflects their pressures. I don't have any pressures and I say it like it is: Shmuel Kaminetsky and his son are mamzer makers, nothing more.
ReplyDeleteI am waiting for Tamar to have a mamzer and then they will honor SK to be sandek. That he deserves, and he will be reminded to announce that the child is a mamzer, I presume.
ReplyDeleteRav Shmuel Kaminetsy - unapologetically responsible for adultery - is honored with a sefer Torah - "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
ReplyDeleteIn Shakespeare’s "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" the idea is that the lady guilty of adultery makes a huge show of protest to charges leveled at her. Shakespeare wisely sees that as a silly ploy the guilty lady does to fend off her attackers.
Rabbi Kaminisky’s and supporters purposely feature Rabbi Kaminestky for honor of a sefer Torah and in that hotel weekend on shalom bait etc. This is much as Rabbi Schechter lecturing at Tamar Epstein’s shul. All a huge show of protest to charges leveled at Tamar Epstein living with a man not her husband. Hello. The king has no clothes. Wake up Rabbi Kaminisky’s and supporters.
I see similar with New Israel Fund awards $20,000 to the NGU Breaking the Silence.
Ben Gurion University wisely cancelled $20,000 to the NGU Breaking the Silence saying:
However, shortly after the announcement, BGU President Prof. Rivka Carmi intervened and overturned the decision. She reasoned that the organization was not a part of the “national consensus” and that awarding the group could be “interpreted as a political bias.”
The NIF makes a huge show of protest to charges leveled at them, maliciously saying
“In this era it is important that there be someone willing to stand boldly and support those who chose to follow their values without fear. As such, the NIF decided to award Breaking the Silence a symbolic prize in the amount of the award that was stolen from it,” NIF said.
Rabbi Kaminisky’s and supporters are guilty of violating commonly accepted halachic reasoning. NIF is guilty of not being part of the national consensus.
My question is still *outstanding*, why in the world isn't there anyone that has seen the couple together. I want more than just a registered marriage license. Maybe there is alao registered divorce. I still ask the same, regardless. Anyone?
ReplyDeleteRabbi Kaminisky’s and supporters shows of frumkeit is like the NIF shows of “to stand boldly and support those who chose to follow their values without fear.” A good theory "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
ReplyDeleteRabbi Kaminisky, Rabbi Schecter and other such highly respected gedolim cannot be guilty of acting outside of accepted halachic reasoning, just look how they broadcast their frumkeit. The NIF cannot be guilty of not being part of the national consensus, just look how they broadcast their “to stand boldly and support those who chose to follow their values without fear.”
Let Rabbi Kaminisky, Rabbi Schecter and other such highly respected gedolim that acquiesce to Tamar living with a man not her husband who refuses to divorce her---give their halachic reasoning! Let NIF explain how they stand bolding and defend Breaking the Silence.
Actually NIF does speak up and explain themselves. This is why Ben Gurion U is now against them. They see plainly that NIF is anti-Zionist, on the side of the enemy.
If Rabbi Kaminisky, Rabbi Schecter and other such highly respected gedolim would speak up to explain the halachic reasoning behind their acquiesce---they would lose Philadelphia yeshiva support. What would they do then? Go to Israel?
Am I missing something here??
ReplyDeleteNo, except that you should expect no better than what you see.
Sadly being Yeshivish Heimish etc. is no longer what it meant 20 and 30 years ago.
Today we have the duty to reasonable question EVERYONE. Including the so called GEDOLIM.
He is entitled to an opinion but not to help a friend in the manner that he did.
ReplyDeleteThese rabbonim cannot write everyhting that they think. The must use their influence in the correct way. Otherwise they will lose their power. They have done a good job and what is implied to RSK is clear.
ReplyDeleteThe last I heard was R' S. Miller protesting after R' Dovid's opinion that he wants the whole truth and have them follow up as to depart. Everybody else is also quiet and protest no more. How did that all come about???
ReplyDeleteI also think that this Sefer Torah business parading around as if good pals. They Bogad baTorah, ulrekida zu ma zu oisseh?
I once heard that the Halacha is that one burns a Torah written by an Apikoros. Now, what if he writes just one letter in the Torah? Is it Batul? It seems to me it is not. It is Davar Ha'ma'amad, so apparently it is not Batul.
ReplyDeleteDid Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky write a letter in this Torah, as is often the custom to invite people to write one letter? If so, what is the status of this Torah?
Ehud, brother, any thoughts?
The sofer makes the outline of the letter, which therefore will validite the letter regardless of who filled it in.
ReplyDelete(Additionally, despite of what was -and is being- done, I don't think he should be called a Min or an Apikores. He may have been involved in a huge mistake that he does not have a good way to undo, but that does not turn him into an Apikores. It also does not negate the good that he did over many years.)
Ok. I'm not sure at this point what the technical definition of an Apikoros is. That is why I was seeking guidance.
ReplyDeleteBased on my meager knowledge, an Apikoros is someone who is learned and denies the Torah. Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky is learned. And in particular, he learned from Rabbi Dovid Feinstein that Tamar Epstein was not permitted to remarry. Yet despite anything that can pointed at to the contrary, I've yet to find anything that Rabbi Kamenetsky has said or done to acknowledge the truth of that Psak that comes close to the definitiveness and clarity that he exhibited when he issued the phony Seruv telling everyone to persuade Aharon Friedman to divorce Tamar.
So it seems to me that Rabbi Kamenestky is denying the Torah Psak.
Yes, sure my friend, plenty.
ReplyDeleteFirst we have to establish what an apikorus is. The definition is:
He who maintains that there is no resurrection of the dead derived from the Torah, and [He who maintains] that the Torah is not from the Heavens, and an Epikoros"
— Mishnah, Seder Nezikin, tractate Sanhedrin, 90a
Our case at hand is not of this nature. We are dealing with megaleh ponim batorah shelo kehalacha, which is a mumer leteiavon, for the taavas momon. Therefore, if he indeed wrote a letter, that would not pasel the kol haTorah kula. However, because of ze keli veanvehu and hakrivehu na lepechosecho, it is not of a dovor noeh and mitzva min hamivchar to read from it, ubemokom sheyesh chilul hashem ein cholkin kovod lerav. You either maavir a kulmus over it to refresh or dan as Torah hamutal besafek veyaniach bekeren zovias in aron hakodesh ukvodo bimkomo munach ad sheyavo eliyahu.
In order not to read mistakenly from it, you convert it into a chasidishe Torah by tying a Gartel around it from the outside, and use it to dance with it on Simchat Torah, same as he demonstrated how to dance with it. There are many minyanim of such Torah's with white beards in fukushimaching-ching upstate NY prison. They already have a big kollel with minyanim mialos hashachar ad tzes mishmosom, going strong, ukvodom if any, bimkomon munach. Veyesh lehachmir afilu bedochak. Veze kol haTorah kula al regel achas.
He is guilty without and beyond explanation. There is a difference tween mumer lehachiss and mumer leteiovon and mumer ledovor echad. Talmud says, gezel vearoyos mafsho shel odom mechamdoson. This FIASCO contains both.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you can help me on this one. Did anybody see the couple living, residing, walking, eating together. How come nobody can answer this question? Yes, it makes a big difference. I have been asking the same question from ADAM, not the paramour kind. Any opinions?
Thank you!
ReplyDeleteAl shlosha dvarim haolam omed, al hekessef veal hakessef veal hakessef. Kessef metaher mamzerim. Hakessef yaane es hakol. It is the modern day egel hazohov people worship that makes the world go 'round. You can get swept away with a strip tide and still die like a Tzaddik. You will get kibbud of shishi/shlishi/maftir, be a sheiner yid while oiver al kol aveiros shebeolam. Kessef is oiver lesoicher misof haolam ad sofo like the EU A'H' and USA Mighty Dollar going strong. As long as you pay your dues, you are welcome in any shape or form, and C'V' even the Torah is expendable, they would even sell you their mother be'esrim kessef ubaad naaloyim. You got the dough, we've got the goods. Money talks, you can buy off the shiltonei hamalchus vedinei demalchusse bearba meos shekel kessef, beini ubeincho ma hi, become a "fixer-macher" that poretz geder ve'ein mamchin beyodo until you get caught. Kessef metaher shikses vechazeirim and even make a roll over betzavsa, mimita lemitah, mibayis lebayis umeir lair bemigdal haporeach beavir, ve'ein potze peh umetzaftzef. It has the power of ksus einayim and makes things go away even parking tickets or other violations asher lo kosuv batorah. Welcome to reality and smell the coffee, my friend. ROFL, maybe that's what your'e missing. Have money, will travel. comprende
ReplyDeleteNo direct info at this point
ReplyDeleteObjectively speaking!
ReplyDelete