Thursday, February 26, 2015

Rav Chaim Konievsky: Reporting child abuse to police - psak

update: This video was sent to me by an unknown person. My impression of it is that Rav Chaim is simply saying that if there is a situation where calling the police will save people then you can call the police without going to a beis din first.

He did not address that  case where there is suspicion or allegations of abuse . He was not asked  about the question of raglayim l'davar.

In short, the only thing certain from this video is that when it is clear that going to the police is the only way to save someone from being abused - then it is permitted. The other issues were not raised.




I have 'nebech' a cousin
In America upon whom someone 'fiddled' with - a scenario of sexual abuse.
What should one do to him?
He wants me to check out the matter. He wants to go to the police

Reb Chaim: "what is the question?"

A child, a child of 11 years old. A disgusting person sexually abused him. The person wants to know if he can go to the police or not?

Reb Chaim: "presumably yes - he will be saving others! - saving others, yes!"

The question is does he need to get permission from a jewish court or anything?

Reb Chaim: "it's logical"

It's logical that one doesn't ask first?
Can one act like this?

Reb Chaim "it's logical because one is saving others"

14 comments :

  1. Can you please post a translation. I cannot understand the Yiddish, and the Hebrew answer at the end is not clear without the question. Thank you

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  2. I don't think this is at all a chidush. As I understand it, the main point of contention is whether one can evaluate ragalyim ladavar on his own. In this cased, the person said that he knows for sure. Who would say that he can't go to the police in such a case?

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  3. I have 'nebech' a cousin
    In America upon whom someone 'fiddled' with - a scenario of sexual abuse.
    What should one do to him?
    He wants me to check out the matter. He wants to go to the police

    Reb Chaim: "what is the question?"

    A child, a child of 11 years old. A disgusting person sexually abused him. The person wants to know if he can go to the police or not?

    Reb Chaim: "presumably yes - he will be saving others! - saving others, yes!"

    The question is does he need to get permission from a jewish court or anything?

    Reb Chaim: "it's logical"

    It's logical that one doesn't ask first?
    Can one act like this?

    Reb Chaim "it's logical because one is saving others"

    ReplyDelete
  4. Sadly, a lot of people. Where have you been the past ten years?

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  5. Agudath Israel apparently is of the opinion that one must always get 'rabbinical' permission first.

    ReplyDelete
  6. fedupwithcorruptrabbisFebruary 26, 2015 at 4:15 PM

    Reb Chaim put it so eloquently yet simple! The logic is if in any other life threatening situation, such as rape, if you see a woman about to be raped, you need not first talk to a Bais Din because a) the act is being committed now and you must act immediately but also b) if you wait until a Bais Din acts, OTHERS may be harmed as well.This simple logic predicated the immediate intervention of the authorities.

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  7. Rabbi Zweibel has said the gedolim's position is that if someone witnessed the abuse himself he can immediately report it to the authorities.

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  8. Slight mistranslation makes this confusing. rather than:

    "The question is does he need to get permission from a jewish court or anything?

    Reb Chaim: "it's logical""

    should be:

    "and he doesn't need to get permission from a jewish court or anything?

    Reb Chaim: "it's logical""



    But I do agree with Yehoshua above that this is a case where one knows for sure. I think the issue in many if not most cases is the ambiguity. But I don't know too many people who would disagree about going to the police if one knows for sure or even when it is very likely. I think where people disagree is whether one should have a knee-jerk response whenever there is merely an accusation about abuse. Some feel that the second one hears an accusation they should call the police. It would be difficult if not impossible to interpret R' Chaim's p'sak here in such a manner.

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  9. Next thing to ask him is if i should breath or not walk across a highway blindfolded. The only question a parent should ask before calling the cops is will he get away with beating the perp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyLgZ65CrUQ .

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  10. fedupwithcorruptrabbisFebruary 27, 2015 at 4:25 AM

    The Rabbis who advocate to get permission from Bais Din for everything are the same hippocritical rabbis who allow the women to go to the civil courts immediately upon separating from their husbands. They will rule in any such way that will allow them to dominate over the population with their fear tactics. They try to scare you into thinking that you will be brandished a Moser. This is why Manny Waks and his family were driven out of Australia!

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  11. That is incorrect. They have said that one may not evaluate whether or not circumstantial evidence has reached th elevel of raglayim ladavar without a pesak form a Rav, but those sure of abuse may turn to the authorities on their own.

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  12. Silly- this doesn't add anything. He presents the Shaalah as that the persons molested his nephew- as a matter of fact. Ask R Chayim what he should do if he thinks someone molested his nephew.

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  13. Having an eye witness is a rare luxury

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  14. Recipients and PublicityMarch 3, 2015 at 5:10 PM

    Which police department is the question being asked about?

    ReplyDelete

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