Artscroll For the least several months, we have invested enormous time and
effort to facilitate a mutually acceptable outcome to the very sad
matter of the Weiss-Dodelson differences. We have been motivated by one
desire: to help bring about a get so that Gital and Avrohom Meir can
build new futures for themselves and so that their child should be
provided for in the most positive manner, for his benefit.
Unfortunately, these efforts have not yet borne fruit.
In order to avoid further distraction from the harbotzas haTorah of
ArtScroll/Mesorah, Rabbis Yosaif Asher and Yisroel Weiss have decided to
give up their positions with our firm until this situation is resolved.
Their letter to this effect is attached.
May our shared hope be fulfilled: that Hashem will provide all
parties with the wisdom and good will to bring a peaceful conclusion to
this tragic situation, and may Klal Yisrael everywhere come together and
enjoy the blessings of peace.
Rabbi Meir Zlotowitz
What factor of the arbitration do the Dodelson's refuse to accept?
ReplyDeleteFrankly, that's none of your business
DeleteFrankly that's none of your business.
DeletePossibly will have the answer later today
DeleteIt is time for Reb Avrohom Meir to put together a beis din and receive a Heter Meah Rabbonim from them. (It should be relatively quick and simple to find 100 kollel guys with smicha to sign.) He'll deposit a Get with this beis din that Ms. Dodelson can pickup once she meets her halachic requirements that she is due him. In the interim Reb Avrohom Meir can immediately get remarried and establish a new family irregardless how long it takes Ms. Dodelson to do her part.
ReplyDeleteDue to the amount of machlokes that this can create and due to the fact that because of political pressure he may not get the Heter that he is entitled, I wonder whether a Heter is required for a person who is absolutely MECHUYAV to get married.
DeleteEHC:
DeleteThis case has already generated an unbelievable amount of machlokes, political pressure and publicity that the Dodelson's have brought about with their terrible secular media campaign/chillul Hashem.
A Heter Meah Rabbonim is the best way to finalize this issue. Then it will be up to Ms. Dodelson whether she wishes to accept the Get and move on or grow old and grey alone without a family. Either way, Avrohom Meir can move on and build a family even if the Dodelson's keep pressing their war.
I suggested that he put together his own beis din of three dayanim to issue the heter. Then it shouldn't be too hard finding 100 guys with smicha to sign.
DeleteGmar nu
I have an even better idea, BT!
DeleteMaybe people can find their own Bais Din to issue whatever psak the Baal Dovor wants. Maybe dayanim can be organized to authorize use of force if necessary! Maybe dayanim can even carry out the kidnapping and torture!
Oh wait, the FBI already has their hands full thanks to such a plan. Maybe it's not such a good idea after all.
"Maybe people can find their own Bais Din to issue whatever psak the Baal Dovor wants."
DeleteGreat point, Daniel S. The Dodelsons did exactly that with the beis din in Monsey they used unilaterally even though the other party didn't agree to their jurisdiction. (As is their right to decline.)
And the FBI isn't interested in the least about a Heter Meah Rabbonim. Government doesn't involve itself into ecclesiastical matters, as it may not.
Good luck finding 100 Rabbanim to oppose the MAchon Lehoraa. R' Gestetner cant even get 1 BD to publicly support him.
DeleteActually, I dont think RDE is willing to publicly support R' Gestetner. Surely, if he believes R' Gestetner to be an acceptable Dayyan, he could get Rav Shternbuch to agree.
maybe now they can concentrate on giving the get ASAP
ReplyDeleteThe Dodelson's are reshoyim gemurim. Getting two people fired from their job/parnasa -- who are NOT the person they are in conflict with and allegedly has a siruv against him. There is no halachic justification for causing someone to lose his parnasa because he is a relative against someone who there is (allegedly) a siruv against. NO Beis Din (of three dayanim who heard a case against the father and uncle) authorized in a psak din to put the father and uncle in cheirum and/or to allow people to cause them to lose their parnasa or to publicly protest and besmirch them. The fact that Dodelson did this to two people who have no siruv against them, makes the Dodelsons reshoyim.
ReplyDeleteThe second thing that makes them reshoyim is their going to the secular shmutzy press, specifically the scandal tabloid called the New York Post, to make a chillul Hashem by bringing a Jewish dispute to the gentile media. See the tons of outright anti-semitic comments generated on that papers Dodleson article on their website targeting ALL of Orthodox Jewry.
Further to the above, they are truly lowering the accepted standards of Orthodox Jews and I think that a public denunciation is absolutely needed at this point.
DeleteInsult to injury, the post OUTRIGHT KEFIRAH!!! This was posted on Newsweek (Divorce in the Orthodox Jewish Community Can Be Brutal, Degrading and Endless):
Delete“I’m waiting for the email to say that Avrohom gave her the get,” says Shira Dicker, the publicist behind Dodelson’s Post article. “If we succeed here, we will have used a 21st century solution — Facebook, social media, the media — to combat a centuries-old law that is really in need of change.” THEY BELIEVE THAT THE TORAH IS IN NEED OF CHANGE!!! IT CAN'T GET ANY WORSE THAN THAT!!!
It is despicable and a real shanda that ArtScroll forced these two tzadikim out. And make no mistake about it, this was not voluntary as the letter purports. They were pushed out. This letter is the kind of thing that you see when a CEO resigns when given a choice to either resign or be fired the board gives him a face-saving graceful exit by allowing it to be announced as a voluntary resignation so he "can spend more time with the family". These two tzadikim in their great humility allowed ArtScroll to get away with this by agreeing to write this hallow letter.
ReplyDeleteArtScroll should be ashamed of itself.
Why are you so one sided on this issue?
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you post the latest letter from Ronnie Greenwald that he has not been accepted by both sides? And if that letter is true does the psak from Rav Dovid become void?
Why did Ronnie Greenwald write his suggestion which was accepted by the Weisses and not the Dodelsohns ? It may have not been binding arbitration, but seems like they were working with an arbitrator.
DeleteEither way, I don't see any reason AMW is a Sarvan, or Meagen, so I guess if you have any compelling argument as to why AMW is either of those, feel free to state it.
"Working with an arbitrator" can mean 100 different things. היוצא מדברי Greenwald is that there never was any 'binding arbitration.'
DeleteAs such, the conclusion of anyone with a modicum of objectivity is that the charge that 'both parties agreed to binding arbitration' is, and always was, false.
Considering how many times that message was put out in different venues (this one, Reb Dovid, SI media, etc.) makes the falsehood all the more reprehensible.
I commend Rabbi Geeenwald's integrity. He saw how the truth was getting twisted, and he acted as any responsible person would.
His actions are a Kiddush Hashem.
At this point, I don't see how there is anything else to do then give the get. The Weisses have destroyed their own credibility, they've forced themselves out of work, and they allowed Rev Dovid to drag himself into the mud. עד מתי תשתכרין
Daniel S there are a number of different possible explanations for what has happened - and I think we will have to wait a while until someone speaks up. Rabbi Greenwald statement is not a comprehensive explanation for his various statements. Hopefully he will respond to my request with a fuller explanation.
DeleteThe issue of the get is a separate issue as the question of the Weiss' credibility and why the resigned from Artscroll.
As I said more information is needed and I think it should be coming shortly.
Reb Doniel,
DeleteI agree that it may be possible to approach this from a different angle than what I've written, but, to the reader, RG's last letter is very clear.
I know that some have accused the other side of PR management, but I'm not looking forward to how Rabbi Greenwald's latest bombshell will be spun accordingly.
And yes, the issue of the get is this, and the issue of the get is that. Anything but to just give the get and conclude a marriage that died four years ago.
It is sad really. Elimelech, Machlon, and Chilyon couldn't discern the handwriting on the wall either. Like them, the Weiss group will send themselves off a cliff before admitting they're wrong.
How sad! If they really resigned on their own free will, it is their choice. But I doubt they were not put under pressure to resign. And if Artscroll put them under pressure to resign, this is one more example of the great brotherly love hareidim display towards fellow hareidim. Firing someone because of what his son or nephew does or does not do would never withstand scrutiny under a labor court in a civilized country. It is just sad to see how hareidim treat one another and what they think is OK.
ReplyDeleteI think the best, and possibly only, solution to this endlessly acrimonious dispute is for Avrohom Meir and Gittal to make up and get back together again as husband and wife.
ReplyDeleteYes it definitely would solve more issues than getting divorced
DeleteThis is the heart of the issue in almost all these cases. Rabbi Eidensohn's position is supported in the strongest language in several places in the Gemara, and followed by thew Jewish community throughout the centuries. It is also supported by modern social science in which study after study shows that children are far better off when their parents stay married, even in happy marriages, than if they divorce. The only exception being severely abusive marriages.
DeleteUnfortunately, it seems that some are trapped in the worst aspects of the counterculture of the 1960s and 1970s in which marriage or divorce are mere choices. And the most prominent support for the absurd contention that divorce makes no difference for children over the long run is a Wallerstein study that Wallerstein herself later acknowledged, based upon further observance of the same study group, got it exactly wrong.
Rabbi Eidensohn, I was wondering if you could elaborate on this issue and explain your comment above egarding reconciliation in a new post. That comment really should need no further elaboration as it is so evidently true, but unfortunately it does, as shown by some of the actions in these cases.
Parent, there's a palpable difference between attempting reconciliation for a distressed or failing marriage, and giving a get for a marriage that's been in the can for four years. If the latest argument is that Weiss wants reconciliation, please don't go there and even try to insult everyone's intelligence.
Delete"Yes it definitely would solve more issues than getting divorced"
DeleteAre you serious?
Two people cannot determine what their mutual rights and duties within the couple are, as the article clearly shows, and you think you can "solve" the problem by forcing them to live together?
I am happy that you are not a marriage counselor. With your attitude, you could really wreak havoc, and I suppose it would be against the deontology of therapists too...
Repost to correct typos. Sorry
DeleteThis is the heart of the issue in almost all these cases. Rabbi Eidensohn's position is supported in the strongest language in several places in the Gemara, and has been followed by the Jewish community throughout the centuries. It is also supported by modern social science in which study after study shows that children are far better off when their parents stay married, even in unhappy marriages, than if they divorce - the only exception being severely abusive marriages.
Unfortunately, it seems that some are trapped in the worst aspects of the counterculture of the 1960s and 1970s in which marriage or divorce are mere choices. And the most prominent support for the absurd contention that divorce makes no difference for children over the long run is a Wallerstein study, which Wallerstein herself later acknowledged, based upon further observance of the same study group, got it exactly wrong.
Rabbi Eidensohn, I was wondering if you could elaborate on this issue and explain your comment above egarding reconciliation in a new post. That comment really should need no further elaboration as it is so evidently true. however, given the debate about these issues, it unfortunately does.
Actually someone mentioned that they went to a marriage counsellor who said the marriage could be saved - but she wasn't interested
DeleteThe problem is that you foster abuse if you force a wife who fled to a husband while she feels he is too controlling (and/or does not contribute enough to the marriage). And this seems to be the case here. Gital Dodelson clearly stated that she felt her husband was too controlling. If this is true, even if it is only subjective, it would be abuse to force her back with him.
DeleteI think that the idea to force a woman back to a husband she does not want (and in some other threads on this blog, opinions were published stating that according to halacha she could even be forced to have sex with him, since this was her "marital duty") is in square contradiction to the fight against domestic abuse.
That's why I am so surprised at the opinions voiced and published here.
"Actually someone mentioned that they went to a marriage counsellor who said the marriage could be saved - but she wasn't interested"
DeleteI think she is right. I have seen a friend taking years and years of mariage counseling (she does not want to get divorced, like a true eshet chayil), and it did not change the abusive behavior of her husband.
I think he had enough chances to behave, he did not use them, tough luck for him.
And I think that his get refusal is one more example that shows his caracter flaws and one more reason not to go back and live with him.
It is frightening how much pressure the Dodelson/Kotler faction is able to exert. Imagine Rav Dovid Feinstein signs a letter that Ronnie Grenwald knew he was signing and then Ronnie Greenwald retracts?! iMAGINE HOW HE MUST HAVE BEEN TERRORIZED. It iss the same terror tactics that were used to force Artscroll to ask for the resignation of two of it's dearest employees. It is the same terror tactics that chased away Rav Bender after his mediation was inclining to the weiss's. And it is these same people that portray Avrohom Meir as controlling!? I wonder what Rabbonim were asked to be matir the Dodelsons to go to the secular press and they are complaining that Avrohom Meir went to erkaos without permission-which of course isnt true as open documents will testify to. The olam hatorah should demand an explanation for the frightenoing mafia like tactics that are being used here. Imagine hijacking Artscroll and going to it's patrons to get two relatives fired!? Is this Torah?
ReplyDeleteMay Hashem help us
Truth
It is truly frightening how much this blog contributed to this major chillul Hashem. 1. By allowing so many lies against the Doldeson to be printed. And 2. By constantly bashing the Gedolim of our generation. 3. And of course by egging on the Weiss family not to give a get.
DeleteI'm sure the blog owner is proud of himself.
Now The Outside World Is Finding Out What Lakewood Is all About One Big Mafia
ReplyDeleteI am surprised and dismayed at the lack of sensitivity to b'nos yisroel displayed here. Also the loshon hara being spoken here against both sides is disheartening. I am not sure how anyone can explain how Rav Weiss can say that both sides agreed to binding arbitration, when the arbitrator himself says it was not agreed to. I will give the Rav the benefit of the doubt that there was a misunderstanding. Bottom line is that they have been apart for 4 years and the husband should give the Get already. His relatives are being implicated because they are in a position to influence the delivery of the Get.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to this blog, where the status of women has not changed in 4000 years. Just like Rivka Imainu was married off in exchange for some gifts at age 3, so too must we act. The Rambam says women are not allowed to leave their houses, well that must mean it is appropriate hashgafa for women today (unless of course they're working so they can give $$ to their husbands). If the ex-husband insisted on picking his wife's obgyn, well this is HIS RIGHT!! (We don't know if this is true or not, of course, but the comments here are illuminating.)
DeleteThe story made Newsweek btw http://www.newsweek.com/divorce-orthodox-jewish-community-can-be-brutal-degrading-and-endless-3082
ReplyDeleteSick. Dodleson's bringing this terrible acrimonious dispute to the attention of the gentile Orthodox-hating (as witnessed by the ALL Orthodox-bashing comments on the gentile press' websites) media is a terrible terrible chillul Hashem.)
DeleteIf he now gives a get because of this pressure, that get will be possul. Her kids would be mamzeirim. Not that any man in his right mind would ever think of marrying her after all these shennanigans - even with all the Dodelson gelt. What has dear, poor, poor Gital gained?
ReplyDeleteExactly correct. Any Get at this point will be under duress and a Get Me'usa. Thus Gital's future children will be mamzeirim and any future "marriage" will be adultery.
Deletehttps://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=519524668144114&set=a.480394572057124.1073741827.480356772060904&type=1&relevant_count=1
ReplyDeleteWhat about saki's business? Not fair game?
ReplyDeleteSeeing all the anti Dodelson comments, I am kind of surprised, as the last letter from Ronnie Greenwald kind of shows that the Wiesses were (at best) manipulating what he said. At worst they were outright liars!
ReplyDeleteActually that is not what the letter shows. Hope to have a letter of clarification from Rabbi Greenwald today or tomorrow.
Deleteactually it is . . .and you're still waiting for further clarification from RG (which won't be forthcoming) and a clarification of the Weiss position (also nowhere to be seen). I have no problem with you advocating for the Weisses - that is your prerogative but at least be open about it - you have a reputation for being an ish emes - this is not the tie to squander a shem tov by representing yourself as non-partisan.
Deleteshmuel simenowitz
BTW - the courts can never be divested of its jurisdiction as the ultimate parent of the child as per its mandate and public policy and would not be required to sign off on any arrangement of which it did not feel was in the best interests of the child. I remember a judge telling a fighting couple "go outside and try to work it out - who said I'm giving either of you custody"?
shmuel simenowitz
Stop the madness and stop fighting with each other ALL of you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Second Bais HaMikdosh was destroyed because of Sinas Chinam ("causeless hatred), and the third Bais HaMikdosh will only be rebuilt by Ahavas Chinom ("selfless love")! You are ALL making yourselves into a laughingstock in full view of the world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To the Weisses and Dodelsons STOP IT and tell your warring kids who are fighting each other to grow up and stop acting like BABIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a disgrace.
ReplyDelete