The following is the missing link that explains why the Dodelson's are using articles in newspapers and internet rather than sticking to arbitration. They seem to think that they can pound the opposition into submission by a clever use of social media. However they seem to be oblivious to the reality that when you invite the whole world to "like" what you are doing - that the tide can easily turn against you and you end up creating an incredible chilul hashem. Which is what has happened since the publication of the letter of Rav Dovid Feinstein yesterday. It is time for the Dodelson's to stop playing internet games and settle down to the hard decisions to give Gital her get.
==============================
Times of Israel Gital Dodelson and her ongoing fight to convince her husband Avrohom Meir Weiss to give her a get, or Jewish decree of divorce, made international headlines this week after a widely read recent New York Post article.
Like
that of most women in her situation, the story of her struggle isn’t
one likely to attract traditional press attention. Luckily, it went
viral first on social media.
Luck has nothing to do with it, says public relations professional Shira Dicker.
Dicker, who calls herself “an innovative
social agitator,” says she planned from the start to use Facebook and
other social media platforms to gain initial public interest for
Dodelson’s situation.
One of Dicker’s clients connected her last July to Dodelson’s mother Saki,
of Lakewood, New Jersey, who informed her of her daughter’s plight.
Four-and-a-half years ago, Gital, now 25, married Weiss, the
great-grandson of leading Orthodox rabbinical authority Moshe Feinstein,
after being set up by a matchmaker.
For Dicker, Dodelson is more than just a client.
“This is a cause,” Dicker says. “I saw what
this girl was up against, and I also saw the tremendous opportunity, the
celebrity endorsement aspect,” she said, referring to the potential
impact this particular campaign could have for other agunot.
Dicker is grateful to the Dodelsons for giving her “creative license” to use cutting-edge tools in the campaign to free Gital.
Not to take sides, though I do feel one of them is correct, if the Weiss family realizes that their name and story are going to be in the media, I have advice for them, cut your losses now. I have been thru a divorce where Halacha was on my side completely, but was advised by my Rov to give into their demands and not go to beis din. I followed his advice, paid them almost $20,000 and got my get. I'll admit, it was very annoying that the other side who was on the staff of a yeshiva wouldn't follow Halacha or plain common sense, but giving in was the easiest and quickest way to have the get.
ReplyDeleteThis case is obviously more complicated, but to save the parties from more aggravation , take my advice, give your get and run. What happens if they start making protests daily at your shule, house etc, why do you need it.
I know many disagree, but I've been thru it, cut your losses now.
Are you a man or a woman?
DeleteI don't think that too many people, if any, know the WHOLE story. As it is, I was very turned off by the NY Post story and the fact that she went to the Post.
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt that both sides can pull out teams of Rabbonim supporting their claims.
However, where do we, the general populace, fit in this picture? If there would be a clear psak from a Beis Din instructing Klal Yisroel to do something specific, meila. But until then, shouldn't we be staying out of it all?
there is no beis din that both sides are willing to listen to at present
DeleteThe issue is therefore not going to get resolved without public pressure
in a divorce, no one knows the whole story, including the couple involved. each one only knows his or her story.
DeleteTo Whom it May Concern,
DeleteA number of months ago concerned 3rd parties asked me to offer my services to the Weiss Dodelson Families to serve as Binding Arbitrator for their disputes.
I offered my services, and tried to set up an arbitration format that would be agreeable to both sides.
I was unable to set up such an acceptable arbitration format, and the parties never agreed to my serving as Binding Arbitrator.
I have since then tried to step forward as a mediator.
In this effort too I never received any agreement from the parties to serve as a mediator.
This leaves their disputes as they were prior to my efforts.
While I may continue to try to mediate, I am doing so strictly on my own initiative and not at the request or with the consent of the parties.
I regret if my previous letter of Nov 7th created the mistaken impression that the parties had agreed to my role as either Binding Arbitrator or mediator.
Thank you,
Rabbi Ronnie Greenwald
_________________________
Dodelson and Epsein apparently don't want a get. They prefer to be celebrities and want to rewrite Jewish Law. It is very clear to both of them that their actions are counterproductive if their goal is to receive a get.
ReplyDeleteIt should also be pointed out that both Dodelson and Epstein have shown a complete disregard for the emotional well being off their children with their PR campaign.
ReplyDeleteDaas Torah,
ReplyDeleteSome points commenting on your writings in this post and previous posts:
a) negotiations? 99% of the people in this world would consider a demand of $350,000 blackmail and extortion – there is a reason he didn’t even bring it up when they were in NJ Civil Court.
b) What is different about this divorce, then the other hundreds of cases every year where the frum Husband gives a Get? Is there something different about this divorce? The NJ Court has awarded him custody every other weekend plus 2 nights a week (almost 50%), and there is no house to fight over, no bank accounts or brokerage accounts (just some wedding money). Doesn’t Weiss’s refusal to give a Get indicate a personality disorder, and clear evidence of his controlling behavior?
c) When over 99% of non-Jews in America believe that it a moral abomination that Weiss is not giving a get – then by definition your sense of morality is warped. Hashem gave jews and non jews a natural sense of right and wrong. There is only one set of morality and ethics – and Hashem created all people with that sense – that is why we are all responsible for our actions. It is not “Western ethics” it is Hashem’s morality and ethics that he placed in our souls.
d) Even most frum jews – chareidi jews – who I hear them discussing the case agree that Weiss should just give a Get (Read VIN’s comments). Your misinterpretations of the Torah are destroying your humanity – they are destroying your morals and ethics – where a demand of $350,000 by Weiss – outright blackmail – outright extortion – you consider legitimate negotiation which needs to go to arbitration. As the Gemara says if a person is not zocheh the Torah corrupts him.
e) For this reason the Dodelson’s are afraid of arbitration – they could get stuck with a frum Jew who has a warped sense of morality and ethics. And there is no need for arbitration – an independent and unbiased NJ Civil Court judge has already ruled on custody and monetary matters – and the judge gave Weiss a very typical arrangement – one which Hundreds of other frum Husbands have found to be fair and have given a Get. There is nothing unique about Weiss’s situation that would cause him to refuse to give a Get. Weiss is not looking for fairness – he already got that from the NJ judge. Weiss is looking for a frum jew with a warped sense of morality and ethics.
f) You write that you don’t know of any sources that the Husband can’t use the Get as leverage. We don’t need sources for everything. It is part of our Mussar Hativi – natural inborn sense of morality and ethics.
g) Mechon L’Horaah a very mainstream Bais Din in the Chareidi world has sided with her. Weiss had to cynically go to R’ Gestetner who is not considered mainstream in the chareidi world. The Weiss family themselves had you asked them 7 years ago would have said that R’ Gestetner is not mainstream and that Mechon l’Horaah is the best. But now to get their results they cynically have become followers of R’ Gestetner.
AZ
AZ acccording to you we just need to take a survey of Facebook to know the halacha - no need for a yeshiva education.
DeleteWhat makes you think that every other weekend and a night per week is somehow fair or that fathers who have such an arrangement think that it is?
DeleteUsing the same logic as AZ we should permit gay marriage because the courts allow it and 99% non jews in the Northeast believe it is moral. After all isn't that the way Hashem created people and we the people should use our own sense of right and wrong. You are making your way down a very slippery slope with your warpes logic.
DeleteEven more puzzling is your assertion tat ninety nine percent of nonJews think it an abomination that a get is not given.
DeleteAZ
DeleteIf your guide to truth is the comments on VIN, we may not have much to debate. He may have a fair judgement form a judge, there may not be any assets. I don't know. The bottom line is there is a fight over 350,000 dollars between the Kotlers and the Feinsteins and I sure don't care who wins.
I do care that every jewish father who gets divorced gets visitation with his kids, and is able to maintain a healthy relationship with them. I don't understand the outcry over Agunah, and not over visitation. It breaks my heart seeing young men cut off from their children by malicious women. Worse than the women, are the rabbis who support them. Some of them seem to always be supporting women, never men. If every case you are supporting the same gender, you are beyond suspect. Mussar hativi says that withholding visitation is a crime too. Not sure about VIN comments.
If Weiss even suspects that gital is playing with visitation. If he is being harrassed when he visits. If the environment is one where he will never be able to maintain a relationship with his son because of her family's status, or power, or connections, he should protect himself. If withholding a get for a while is necessary in order to prevent losing his kid, so be it. I will admit that usually the opposite approach may insure the relationship with the child is held intact, however with different folks this may be the only way.
As far as money, I dont know the details and i don't really care much. 350,000 seems like a considerable amount of money, but perhaps there is a smaller valid claim, or perhaps it is 350,000. It's not like they are asking for 5 million dollars. It doesn't seem to me like extortion, perhaps an exaggerated claim. A competent bais din or arbitrator should easily be able to adjust the number to the correct one.
AZ -- as I've now shown, while it may make you feel better to vent your feelings and perspectives, some of which are very legitimate, you won't get a legitimate response. For better or worse, our good friend R' Eidensohn is not capable of addressing all of your points as he must be very busy doing whatever it is that he does (certainly this close to Shabbos).
DeleteYour better bet is to break the post into individual arguments with very clear questions that should have simple enough answers and maybe DT will deign to respond to them with real responses rather than respond with snark and sarcasm.
Have a blessed Shabbos.
Extortion -- When the Dodelsons refuse to come to the table to negotiate a fear divorce stipulation, and instead, despite the Weiss families pleadings, drag the matter through a trial, with the pure intent to bankrupt them, asking for restitution is not blackmail. THe Dodelsons knew from the start that the Weisses had two Achilles heals -- integrity, theu wont go into the gutter like they will. and lack of money. They are multi millionaires, the Weisses are bnei Torah.
DeleteWhat is different about this divorce? In most divorce cases both sides understand the need to reach a settlement. In this case the Dodelson position from the get go has been seek and destroy until they can unilaterally write the script. To quote the wife from the beginning of the separation, " hes my child, you will see him when I let you."
Most frum Jews think etc. -- Immaterial. Unfortunately most frum Jews -- including Rabbonim -- think you can listen to one side's lashon hara and believe it and act on it. Every individual who read one of these social media -- aka lashon hara machine -- pieces and acted on it has been עובר countless isurei d' oraysa רחמנא ניצלן.
Dodelsons fear of arbitration -- THe Dodelsons are afraid of any independent resolution they cannot control. Period. Why do you think they never, despite four and a half years of claiming they want to go to Beis Din, sent Weiss a hazmana to come to Beis Din over the question of the Get? Because of people like you and your ilk theu believe they will poumd Weiss into the ground and get unconditional surrender.
Sources. -- Yes, in Torah you do need sources for everything.
Mechon L'horoyah -- accepted, yes. Honest, no. What they have done in this case is blatantly corrupt. They are getting away with it because they are an accepted Beis Din and everyone is afraid to hold their feet to the fire. They themselves have never even attempted to justify what they did. I read Weisses 22 pages. I brought them to a Dayan. I called Mechon. THEY HAVE NO ANSWER BUDDY.
R Gestetner -- I don't know him. But this I know. Ask the people who call him nuts Why they call him nuts -- they have no answer. its "oh everyone knows hes nuts." Can you believe this? And people are learning Chafetz Chaim? I have gone through some of his teshuvos, they are beautifully done, and the sources are all accurate -- and he provides a tremendous amount of sources.
You know that's not what AZ said, and you're obviously creating a strawman...
DeleteHe's not saying that you decide halacha based on Facebook, he's saying that we all have the chush that tells us when something is wrong, or when someone is a menuval, even if there's no halacha in Shulchan Aruch that he violates. I don't know much about the facts of this specific case, more than what's been reported in the media; but, if the facts are as AZ presented, that a civil judge decided on custody and monetary matters, and AW is just trying to use the get to extort money from her, well then that's wrong, and he's a sore loser and a jerk. (Note that I made no comment about what's required al pi halacha, as I have no idea if anything is required al pi halacha. But a guy can still be a menuval while never violating any halacha.)
Daas Torah,
DeleteI ask again - if your daughter was married to a controlling, abusive jerk who refused counseling and refused to change his ways, how would you advise your daughter?
If a civil judge decided custody and assets, and he was withholding the get because he didn't like the decision and wanted an obscene amount of money (remember, we're talking about your daughter here), would you think he's a menuval?
How would you advise your daughter?
a) He's probably not going to get this, but let a beis din decide if he deserves it or not.
Deleteb) The difference is that they have not gone to a beis din.
c) Do 99 percent of the world have the facts straight? And you just made that number up.
d) see c.
e) She can be afraid for whatever reason she wants, I would be too, but going to a beis din or negotiating is what civilized Jews do to resolve disputes. We don't go by the pesak of secular courts.
f)No it's not. If I deserve my day in court, and the other party refuses to give me what I deserve, It is natural to withhold something they deserve.
g) good point.
no according to him there is a moral order that we should adhere too. Yeshiva education can supplement that
DeleteSuperintendant ChalmersNovember 8, 2013 at 4:23 PM
DeleteDaas Torah,
I ask again - if your daughter was married to a controlling, abusive jerk who refused counseling and refused to change his ways, how would you advise your daughter?
If a civil judge decided custody and assets, and he was withholding the get because he didn't like the decision and wanted an obscene amount of money (remember, we're talking about your daughter here), would you think he's a menuval?
How would you advise your daughter?
===================
Don't know why you expect me to answer a "when did you stop beating your wife" type question. I don't share you conclusions about what is going on in the case and thus your question is irrelevant
If the Doddelson/ Kotler family refused to resolve the marital issues thru a Jewish dayan and instead insisted on going thru secular court, isn't this extremely hypocritical considering Lakewood/the Kotlers destroyed Rav S and his family for going to seculAr court, with Rav Sternbuch's written permission, to stop Kolko from abusing other children as he had been doing?
Delete@AZ - "warped sense of morality and ethics" - Your absurd rant demonstrates your warped ORA feminist morality and ethics, completely contrary to the Torah.
ReplyDeleteTo claim that "There is only one set of morality and ethics – and Hashem created all people with that sense" is amazing SHEKER and stupidity. According to you Titus, Muhammad, Genghis Khan, Hitler, Gloria Steinem, and there masses of followers all have the same ethics as Torah Jews have.
According to you, non-Jews should decide when Weiss must give a GET. Read this and weep, ORA feminist Torah perverters: "Do not follow the customs of the nations...I am Hashem your God who has separated you out from among the nations to be mine" Vayikra 20:23,24.
"Weiss is not looking for fairness – he already got that from the NJ judge." - So you want to rely on your beloved goyish feminist police state laws? Fine, in that case the NJ judge did not and cannot order a GET (by the US Constitution), so the case is closed, Weiss is exempt from giving any GET.
If the Doddelson/Kotler family refused to resolve the marital issues thru a dayan as opposed to secular court, then it seems to me that is extremely hypocritical seeing that the same Kotler/Lakewood family destroyed Rav S ,s parnassa and reputation by labeling him a mosser, throwing him out of A job and his kids out of their schools, for going to the secular court to stop his sons abuser,Kolko, from the destroying other children even though Rav S had a written Heter from Rave Sternbuch!!!
ReplyDeleteAwesome and truthful comment eyes leyaakov. right to the point. a get is an instrument of halacha and should be given in conjunction with a fair resolution of all marital issues according to halacha - not when a secular court judge decides a divorce case. the judge who decided may be an atheist or a biased person - but even if he is well - meaning, he is NOT deciding issues based ln halacha. Waiting to give get until issues are decided based on halacha is NOT extortion- rather it is the proper halachic approach to a get (which is a halachic instrument) -- .i .e. a get is something that a secular courts decision on marital issues has no relevance to. The dayan who decides when the get should be given is the only party that can also decide the marital issues according to halacha.
ReplyDeleteThe Weiss family sued in court for full custody. I saw the court papers. He consistently refused bet din or arbitration. Now that he lost the case, he wants legal fees and of course he now feels that a bet din or arbitrator is a better course. You lost, give your get and move on. I personally spoke to the Weiss family and told them that they are wrong.
ReplyDeleteIf what you say is true, then I would agree with you. I had understood that it was the wife who consistently refused to go to beit din. if that is not the case, and the husband was the party who refused best din or a single dayan being the arbitrator, then it does appear that he should just give the get already. I say this only tentatively as these situations are often so complex. But my general point that a get simply on the wifes demand or being expected/ pressured after a secular court decision without a halachic decision on all marital issues -- IF THERE WAS A PRIOR POSSIBILITY OF A HALACHIC PROCESS--- is not a legitimate approach.
DeleteRDE:
ReplyDeleteIf everything Dodelson is accusing Weiss of were true (and I have no idea if it is or not), would you consider the tactics she is using to be permitted? Or would you at least understand rather than her choice to use them?
1) i have a small amount of pride in having realized that this is carefully crafted spin almost from the beginning. from the pictures of the two people (she is facing the camera thereby making a connection with the reader, he is looking down as if he has something to hide, she has just the right tinge of sadness in her eyes, her clothes are conservative but fashionable, he is clearly uncomfortable in his photo), to very minor details in the way the article is crafted (for example the failure to mention her family connections giving the impression of a small little lamb going against the religious establishment plus avoiding any connection to kolko), the whole thing is PR exercise well done.
ReplyDelete2) you, rav, should understand that with all your links and discussions, you're helping her. that is SEO.
3) IMO the question of "what do you tell a women who is being refused a get, what comfort do you offer, what recourse do you think she has" is perfectly fair one if it is taken out of the context of this specific case. you have a very conservative approach to this issue. i am not taking a stand regarding your approach. you've been arguing with other, like rav berger, for a long time on these points. i am asking what you would tell someone who has been in and out of beit din for years. this is in no way a "have you stopped beating your wife" question.
@Ben Waxman what do with a real aguna - is another issue altogether and detracts from the present thread which involved cutting through the pr haze which the Dodelson's have created. If you or someone else wants to write a guest post about dealing with real agunas I would be glad to consider posting it.
DeleteIf this is not "real agunah" issue, why are you posting about it? Who cares about the marital dispute of one Jewish couple?
DeleteCan't speak for Rabbi Eidensohn, but one reason to post about it is because Weiss and his extended family are being publicly and wrongfully tarred and feathered in this specific case.
DeleteA further set of points that I believe Rabbi Eidensohn has been trying to make is that the idea that a woman is automatically entitled to an unconditional get in all circumstances and that coercion (even with public pressure, and not physical force) is always appropriate is completely wrong. First, it is wrongful and harmful to all concerned to leave a marriage without the gravest case. Second, if a woman insists on doing so, she should eventually receive a get, but ONLY after other issues are resolved in a reasonable manner, not before.
Third, it is wrong not to give a get for no reason at all (after all issues have been reasonably resolved), but even so, coercion (absent a beis din ruling that the woman had cause to leave) by any means including public pressure generally invalidates any resulting get.
@Joseph regarding Rav Sternbuch's teshuva 4:301 which states that the husband should not withold a get out of spite - that is irrelevant here because he is not withholding the get out of spite. And even if it were n because of spite the pressure being put on him would make it a get me'usa.
ReplyDelete"You should be aware that we are obligated to fight against her going to secular courts and we prevent her from remarrying if she does and if the get is given under these circumstances there is a suspicion that it was coerced (me'usa). Nevertheless in a case where she claims she can't stand him (ma'us alei) and there is no reason to believe they can be reconciled and the man is simply being cruel to her and is being spiteful by not to giving her a divorce - then even though it is prohibited for us to exert any force- G-d forbid! - nevertheless it is correct to notify the husband that the view of many of the gedolim (e.g., Rambam, Ravad, Behag, Rashbam, Rashi etc) is that he is sinning and they would encourage him to give her a get. Because even these poskim are concerned about creating [an invalid get] which would leave her as a married woman even bedieved - so G-d forbid that we should use any type of coercion. Regarding the issue of tormenting her and leaving her an aguna - it is correct for him to be concerned for her claim that she finds him revolting (ma'os alei) and it is prohibited for him to leave her as an aguna - even if she is not correct. But we are not to coerce him G-d forbid with any type of coercion that would possibly bring about a get me'usa. Rather [once we have informed him that it is wrong for him to withold the get] he needs to come the the realization himself that he must conduct himself like a descendant of Avraham and the verse says that the ways of Torah are ways of pleasantness and all its paths are peace and that he will find happiness with someone else.
All of this we need to explain to the husband. That leaving her as an aguna is a transgression of a severe sin of onas devarim - not to torment his wife. That refusing to divorce her serves no purpose except to get revenge against her. He doesn't want to live with her and he shouldn't think her life is worthless and he should be fully aware that in Heaven there is judgment and there is a Judge. He should also be informed that to many of the early gedolim it is correct even to force him to divorce. Unfortunately there are many beis dins that when they see that the husband doesn't want to divorce his wife they simply remain silent. But that is not acceptable. They must inform him that he is unjustifiably tormenting her and this is not correct. This of course is assuming that the beis din is convinced that there is no hope for reconciliation...."
http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/03/rav-sternbuchmoredes-went-to-civil.html
DeleteRav Eidenson
Delete1) can you help your readers and me understand who it was , Weiss or Dodleson, that consistently refused a halachic beit din arbitration process before the secular court rendered its decision?
2) i am unclear when according to some rishonim its is okay to pressure for a get or physically force one. please clarify if and when it is ever okay -- as the Rambam says we hit him until he says he wants to give it
Regarding 1 - I don't have time to go through the documents and summarize. Look at the Weiss family documents posted on they blog
DeleteRegarding 2
Shulchan Aruch E. H. 154 describes the cases where physical force can be used.
Shulchan Aruch E.H. 77 describes the case of ma'os alei and what if any pressure can be applied. Rambam allows physcial force but that view is rejected as detailed fully in Oztar haPoskim
Rabbi Eidensohn,
DeleteThank you for FINALLY responding. Rav Sternbuch's teshuvah is actually 100% APPLICABLE because he is holding the get out of spite, what do you call $350,000? I know that you previously referenced this as lawyer fees and something he is "entitled to" (your words, not mine). And no, the pressure on him didn't need to be, only because he is holding out for $350,000 which you again call a non-ransom and if he would just back off his ridiculous claims for #350,000, accept what the court in NJ decided, and back off his ferocious and vicious attitude, then he would give the get b'menucha, sheket, and shalva, and it would not be a get me'usah according to anyone.
You do realize how ridiculous your argument is, right? : how can we halachically allow a man to give a get in a pressure situation that is completely self-inflicted and call that "kosher"? That would be a get me'usah! Thank you genius, we all know that, but you can't make that claim if the pressure is self-inflicted because of demands you instituted. So yes, Rav Sternbuch is telling this person to stop being a rasha standing on his sick principles and give the get.
Lastly, as to the update from Hagaon Rav Dovid Feinstein shlit"a, no one was calling him a liar as you suggested before, but IMHO I don't understand his letter and the significance of it. Absolutely he is a me'again because of a $350,000 claim! So since the Gaon Rav Dovid doesn't mention it, perhaps he is unaware of it and hence makes his letter and point hard to comprehend.
This person speaks respectfully when it comes to Gedolim, but if you do look at that free gital link cited above, it is clear that the Dodelson's are saying that is not true. So, no one here is saying lie, but it is possible that Rav Dovid shlit"a was (deliberately) misinformed.
And also, the Weiss's do post an e-mail from RG that says he is not the arbitrator, so be aware, RDE, there are some legitimate questions towards what is being put out in the name of the Gaon Rav Dovid and RDF Jr., without using words like "liar" chas vashalom which you and your brother throw around. We are all outsiders and do not know what was accepted but there is a clear "he said she said" going on here and you have stated your siding with the Feinsteins/Weiss. Fine, so you're biased, but all the rest of us see without the back and forth about the documents and the arbitration is a self-inflicted situation of a man refusing to give a get and demanding $350,000 and yes Rav Sternbuch's teshuvah is applicable. The fact that RG is in bed with Artscroll makes it hard to hear the other side would accept him anyways, but that's just a suspicion.
he's the one who went public when he went to civil court.as for visitation rights he has the law behind him and both should abide with it.
ReplyDeleteNathan,
DeleteSince she left the house without a solid reason (even if you believe her story). It is reasonable of him to demand more custody than in other cases. He may have tried to get custody and failed because the court do not follow the Jewish law and now he is trying to legitimately gain more custody of his child. In fact, he is obliged to do so. He is responsible to the CHNUCH of his child.
She refused to let him see the child. What was he supposed to do? Physically grab the child back? She forced him into court.
DeleteShira Dicker is the wife of Ari L. Goldman, author of "My Search For God at Harvard".
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ari_L._Goldman
She used to teach at JTS' high school. It was in the "about" section of an article she wrote earlier this year or last year, I can't remember about what. If you google "shira dicker jts" their faculty page for their High school (prozdor) program pops up first, but her name is no longer there.
Stop the madness and stop fighting with each other ALL of you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Second Bais HaMikdosh was destroyed because of Sinas Chinam ("causeless hatred), and the third Bais HaMikdosh will only be rebuilt by Ahavas Chinom ("selfless love")! You are ALL making yourselves into a laughingstock in full view of the world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To the Weisses and Dodelsons STOP IT and tell your warring kids who are fighting each other to grow up and stop acting like BABIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a disgrace.
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