She caught him in the act, immediately filed for a divorce with the
Rabbinate, but the man refused to grant her a "get". On Tuesday, 10
years after the case was opened, the Rabbinical Court sent the man to
prison – until he gives in.
The court ruled that
the two must divorce, and ordered the man to grant his wife a "get".
Despite his refusal, for years the judges failed to use their authority
to impose sanctions on him in order to receive his consent for a
divorce.
The husband, on his part, tried to extort different kinds of
concessions from his wife before he agreed to a divorce, including
benefits in child visitation arrangements and giving up on damages he
had been ordered to pay.
But even after his requests were granted, the man refused to give his wife a divorce.
Jailed?? More proof why religion needs to be taken out of Israeli politics. Unless a "Jewish Taliban" is the real goal here.
ReplyDeleteDo you approve of jail in all situation except for religious torment - if so why?
DeleteI don't believe that failure to give a get is a jail worthy. Should that law apply to all or just religious Jews
DeleteWould such a get be halachically acceptable? I've read some opinions on this blog which suggest no.
ReplyDeleteif you have been reading this blog you will have learned that there are in fact times where force is permitted. The problem we have mainly been dealing with is maos alei in which a wife says my husband disgusts me. There are basically three categories. 1 the wife simply wants out or she wants to marry someone else but has no serious claims about her husband 2 she find him disgusting but he isn't doing anything wrong and thus she is a moredes 3 the husband is doing something seriously wrong such as beating her, hacs halachich prohibitions et
ReplyDeleteThe Chareidi rabbonim consider the jailing of husbands by the rabbinite of the state to be halachicly invalid and it to be a get m'eusa.
DeleteThe P'sak din bei Rav Gestetener explicitly stated that "maus alai" is NEVER a reason to force a get...
DeleteTherefore, it seems that not all Rabbonim agree on your three categories...
It is important to note that determinations of which category to place a woman must be undertaken by halachic experts who are careful to here the facts from both sides.
DeleteNo one is capable of making that determination on the basis of a blog post, diary entry, testimony of a father alone, etc.
Likewise no one is able to disqualify such a determination by hearsay. Who have you talked with?
DeleteI am making a general comment.
DeleteAs for its application to the Friedman case, are you suggesting that we must assume Rav Gestetner spoke to Tamar unless we have evidence to the contrary? I think that is absurd. Stan spoke with the Rav and he admitted that he didnt speak to her.
Rav Gestetner does not believe that halacha in the shulchan Aruch applies to him.
"The Chareidi rabbonim consider the jailing of husbands by the rabbinite of the state to be halachicly invalid and it to be a get m'eusa."
ReplyDeletedepends on situation. There are situation where halacha prescribes force. Please provide citations that say that jail always produces a get me'usa
"depends on situation."
DeleteI'm glad you acknowledge that, at least, some of the rabbinite jailing of men that produces a Get renders it a Get Meusa.
That fact means one cannot trust a Get that came about via a jailing in Israel.
I didn't say. According to what Justice Elon wrote jail is not used in the case of ma'os alei. If you have evidence to the contrary please present it.
DeleteJudge Elon claims that if the husband insists on Shalom Bayis and the wife still demands a Get, there will be no jailing?
DeleteWhen does Judge Elon say jail IS used?
http://daattorah.blogspot.co.il/2012/05/judge-m-elon-prison-to-force-get.html
DeleteIf it was occuring prior to marriage, and she protests within 30 days of knowing there would be a tsad to call it a mekach to'ous if he won't give a get according to reb moshe but you would need to ask a godol and there are very few left.
ReplyDeletethere is a tsad of sakonos nefoshos due to transmission of AIDS. rav elyashiv is missing!
If she didn't know about it before marriage then it could be a mekach to'ous when she did discover it. If she left him at that point the marriage may be invalid.
DeleteI believe Rav Moshe has a teshuva in the Igros Moshe about a husband who turned out to be a homosexual and whether that constitutes a mekach taous.
Deletehow can that be a Mekach taous? The man is buying the woman not the other way around.
DeleteThe P'sak din bei Rav Gestetener explicitly stated that "maus alai" is NEVER a reason to force a get...
ReplyDeleteTherefore, it seems that not all Rabbonim agree on your three categories..
===================
please read some of the many posts. Telling a husband that you think it is a good idea - is clearly pressure but that is not the force the disqualifies a get. There are also the charchakos of Rabbeinu Tam or indirect pressure. Please stop making pronouncement when you haven't botherer to study the most elementary material on this topic
RDE:
ReplyDeleteBig news broke in America today:
Boy Scouts Sexual Molestation Scandal
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/19/us/boy-scout-documents-reveal-decades-of-sexual-abuse.html?pagewanted=all
thanks just posted it
DeleteIf it is necessary to put people in jail (or apply physical force) to obtain a divorce, something is wrong with the system and the system should be reviewed...
ReplyDeleteIf the only way to have a society function is to have punishment for misbehaving - there is something wrong with the system and the system should be reviewed
ReplyDeletethis case makes it very obvious that the system is wrong:
ReplyDelete- it requires the consent of the husband to allow the abandoned wife to remarry
- the system is ready to put the husband in jail in order to obtain a coerced consent, i.e. a consent that is no consent.
So why not do away with the explicit consent in the shape of a get and just declare that certain acts (like cheating on the wife, being violent, emotionally cruel to the wife, not providing for the family) constitute an implicit consent of divorce (if the wife demands it), because if he wanted to stay married, he would not do it?
this way, the husband would not need to go to jail - which is undue harshness for refusal to sign a document - and the abandonned wife could still remarry...