I thought this had been posted before on this web site.Expect the following nonsense from ORA:1. Rav Gestetner has been possuled by the rabbanut.yes he has and that was for standing up to their forced gittin which are invalid. furthermore they never gave a reason for passuling him and who really cares - every week new allegations about corruption associated with the rabbanut gets exposed be it: chief rabbis taking money for being mesader kiddushin to false rulings to issuing fake kashrus certificates to even being mattir mazeirim.2. rav gestetner does not follow normative halocho - as defined by the BDA. Yes he does not allow corrupt lawyers as toanim in his bais din, he does not bifurcate- if the woman is in arko'oys he gives her a hasroas siruv and no get, he does not apply secular law in his bais din and follows all the rishonim against this.3. no one takes him seriously - only those who seriously respect halocho take him seriously since he stands up against all violators of halocho.4.he is despised by other NY botei din -yes by some, that is correct. he threatens their business model which is charging way in excess of the dayonim's schar betailo and points out that their rulings are invalid which is what the halocho says.5. he is chasidish, extrem satmar etc - shame on the litvaks who can't produce an honest bais din in NYC which follows halocho.6.he is a one bais din - when there is a din torah, there will be 3 dayonim present.7. he has gone against rav shmuel kamenetsky. why not when the latter has made serious halachik mistakes.8. he has disagreed with rav shmuel miller on a case recently - so what, especially as the halochoh is on his side. a guy sam was repeatedly challenged to produce the facts on this case but would not.9. he will not force a get on "mo'us olai" - neither would the rashbo and many/ most other rishonim. neither would brisker rov, chazon ish and rav elyashiv.virtually all cases today where the woman taynes mo'us olai today are not real cases of mo'us olai but more I don't get along with my hasband which is different from mo'us olai and even those who hold mo'us olai do not hold of a get in these cases e.g. friedman.10. he anti female. is it rav gestetner's fault that invariably it is the women who go to court and who violate halocho, who also make false molestation claims and refuse adequate if any father access to children and who claim moneys they are not entitled to al pi halocho at all such as alimony and/or equitable distribution? He is happily married and close to his daughter/s.11. Even rav moshe sternbuch holds that even if there is no chiyuv al pi halocho to give a get, it is cruel and bad middos not to if marriage is over, holds in the case of a woman in arko'oys, this does not apply but rather a get is depsoited in bais din and a hetter meah rabonim is obtained.Bottom line here are the main (fake)arguments against rav gestetner. I imagine most further claims will just be variations of the above points which have all been easily refuted.In fact here are the advantages of rav gestetner's bais din:1. strictly not for money, for free.2. scrupulously honest, no twisting of halochoh.3. no toanim allowed to help parties lie.4. DIN not peshoroh where the unsuspecting husband can be made liable for whatever the bais din decides to force him to give even though it has no basis in halocho.5. full explanation of ruling with all the details of how p'sak was reached.6. he has no institutions to maintain and hence is not at mercy of the tsibbur and can take a tough independent stance arrived at simply on basis of halochoh.
i would love to comment on this bitul seiruv and this article. but you stan have said it all. there is really nothing more to add. you have told it like it is.ye'tasher kochacho
1) Rabbanut - yes, which had been taken over effectively by R'Elyashiv's henchemn, and who were following his orders. Ashki Chief Rabbi Metzger - Mr Corruption - was chosen by R Elyashiv, to oppose R Ariel of Ramat Gan. When allegations against Metzger about his sexual misconduct were brought, R' Elyashiv said that even if they r true, it is still better than R Ariel (honest, Zionist, gadol).Stan, I may be in disagreement with you on some issues, but I am in agreement that there is corruption, that a lot of things are money motivated,and that kashrus, marirage, divorce are the bi money makers, but also other areas of supposed halacha.
Anyone claiming to make determinations of fact without speaking to the wife is a complete clown.It is obvious that he never spoke to Tamar. How can he determine that this isnt a case of Maus without talking to her? Rav Gestetner needs to stop inserting himself into every broken marriage. Every Rav who has spoken to BOTH Aharon and Tamar has come to the conclusion that he needs to give a GET.
Are you making this assertion based on halacha or simply as advice? On the halachic level it is clearly false.
James,How would you know which rabbonim have spoken to both Tamar and Aharon and what they have told them?
Daas Torah,Both. Gestetner is making rulings based on that alleged diary entry. I find that completely irresponsible. How can he possibly claim that hers is not a case of Maus without speaking to her. A BD must, al pi halacha, hear both sides before making a rulings. Puzzled,It doesnt take a leap of logic to know that Epstein did not meet with Gestetner but your point about not knowing what they told the Rabbanim is a good one. I have been making that point on this blog for months. Some people on this blog feel comfortable stating that Tamar was never mistreated by Aharon and therefore, does not have a right to a divorce. I keep saying that neither, myself, the Moderator, R' Dovid Eidensohn, or anyone else on this blog has heard why Tamar wanted a divorce. She doesnt really talk about how she made her decision.
"virtually all cases today where the woman taynes mo'us olai today are not real cases of mo'us olai but more I don't get along with my hasband which is different from mo'us olai and even those who hold mo'us olai do not hold of a get in these cases e.g. friedman."Yes a classic case of being a moredes v'teshev ad shetalbin searo
James,You say that every Beth Din that has spoken to both Aharon and Tamar agree that he must give a GET. Did you speak to the Baltimore Beth Din that heard the case, and is the only Beth Din that heard both sides? I never heard that the Baltimore Beth Din required a GET from Aharon and I heard from others that they clearly did not, although I personally never spoke to them.
The Baltimore BD has relinquished jurisdiction. (whatever that means) Are you saying that no one on the Belsky/Kaminetsky BD spoke to Aharon?
I thought the biryon James was not posting or severely reducing his posting until after YK. That was his excuse for not answering the serious violations of halocho of the BDA. Well james youare not being allowed off the hook." I will no longer post against Eddie and James until either each or both answer the following serious questions of halocho:1) They explain the serious violation of bifurcation in general of the BDA.2) Why BDA/YU don't stand up against arko'oys but support those in arko'oys3) Who gave the BDA the right to use secular law even if both parties agree because claerly any man agreeing is going to get destroyed and they have not explained this to him.4) how r herschel schachter can issue fake siruvim like on meier kin.5) is r herschel shachter paid for being head of ora's "rabbinic" directorship? if yes as i suspect, how much?"Just answer the serious violations of halocho James of the BDA, before you start pontificating about others. And don't give us your laughabler allegations about rav elyashiv not being recognized by the rabbanut without reasons, this has nothing to do with the BDA's violations. I will pin you down to answer the corruption of the BDA. You are not being let off the hook any longer james. keep your extremely chrsitian name and values off the torah agenda.
"Anyone claiming to make determinations of fact without speaking to the wife is a complete clown". The same logic would apply to someone who never spoke to the husband i.e. r kamenetsy. I thought he was a godol? James, think before you write such shtusim. there are documented facts about how tamar felt about aharon. the only clowns around are you and the ORA biryonim.
"Anyone claiming to make determinations of fact without speaking to the wife is a complete clown." The same logic also applies to the chief rabbi of the modernishe chevra r schachter who issued a siruv on meier kin without ever speaking to him let alone beiung mazmin him to bais din once let alone 3 times.when it comes to fake agunahs, the tzionim once again just throw halocho out the window because it does not conform to their feminist agenda.
R SCHECTER ALSO SIGNED ON TO R KAINETSKY'S LETTERS AND SEIRUV WITHOUT SPEAKING TO AHARON. HE SAYS THAT THE WORDS OF THE ZAKAIN ARE WITHOUT REPROACH.REMEMBER THERE IS A DROSHO THAT WE MUST GIVE RESPECT TO AN ELDERLY SAGE WHO HAS LOST IT BECAUSE THE LUCHOS AS WELL AS THE BROKEN LUCHOS BOTHE WERE KEPT IN THE ARON.BUT ALSO REMEMBER THEY GAVE RESPECT TO THE BROKEN LICHOS - BUT THEY WERE NOT TAKEN OUT TO BE READ FROM. RESPECT IS ONE THING - LETTING HIM SPEAK IS ANOTHER
@S'tanwhat exactly is your claim for calling people biryon? Wasnt it the Satmar rebbe who instructed his hassidei shoteh to stay in europe in order to be slaughtered?You allege the Tzionim throw halacha out of the window, yet the corruption of the rabbanut has been been implemented by the installed Haredi puppets such as Mr metzger and Dayan Sherman. Thus, Sherman's nullification of thousands of gerim was done without him speaking to any of them, or looking at their cases.There is a joke (well I just conceived it) that a Sephardi Gadol asked an Livishe Gadol if they had any basis for the annulment of thousands of gerim, leaving married women free to remarry without need of a get, thus creating (Haredi) mamzerim. The Litvishe replied "yes, we relied on Sholom Goren's psak".
biryon - rashi says is a porutz, these are people who wish to break halocho like the BDA and their supporters inbcluding those who go to their protests where women sing in public.What is james claim that rav gestetner is a clown eddie?the rabbanut was corrupt long before charedi puppets got installed there cf goren's infamous psak and the forced gittin, the very low kashrus standards. Stop blaming everything on the chareidim. they are far from perfect but stop revising history to suit yourself.what about the chief rabbis that take payments for being mesader kiddushin even though this is illegal. this way proceeded r metzger.
Stan - If you claim Goren's psak was wrong, then what does that say about the haredim who adopted it, and applied the same method wholesale? If it was done, then it's illegal. You telling me that Hareidim observe financial laws scrupulously? If you talk about Portuzim breaking halacha, then you have very slight problem. Most of your european Gedolim, who I cannot name here, were breaking halacha, and could have saved lives, but rewrite halacha in order to fulfill their own idiotic ideologies, which you have adopted. Thus they refused visas to Israel, which were offered, for example by Z. Warhaftig. Only Mir accepted them, and survived. And howabout the NK from your Eda enclave, who are mechalel shabbes when they protest in public with PLo/Hamas, Ahmadinejad et al?I cannot comment on what Chaim wrote about gestetner, since I never heard of him before.
Eddie,Your bringing in the holocaust is irrelevant to here and provocative Haredi-bashing as well. Your allegations are unreferenced and inaccurate. Who ever heard of Rabbis refusing visas during the holocaust? See Thy Brother's Blood -- The Orthodox Jewish response during the Holocaust, The Unheeded Cry -- the gripping story of Rabbi Weissmandl, the valiant Holocaust leader who battled both Allied indifference and Nazi hatred, and others at http://www.artscroll.com/Categories/hol.html . Also see Hidden in Thunder, a scholarly work by Esther Farbstein and published by Feldheim which shows how little was known and believed at the time by anybody and how it was all related to.
db - if it is irrelevant, then why are u writing a megilla about it? It seems you are simply not in the know, since visas were refused by the Rabbis you might consider "gedolim". In fact one such rabbi first condemned his flock to death, then went back (he managed to flee to america). Others just let their flock be slaughtered whilst they managed to escape - often with the help of zionists or secularists.Weissmandel, project Europe etc, is nonsense. The British and Americans would not give 10,000 trucks to Germany, to save Jews.
Eddie, I provided a documented reliable alternative to your out-of-context slanderous allegations for which you've provided no sources.
"out-of-context slanderous allegations"No db, the source you can find this in is Theological + Halachic reflections on the Holcaust, ed. Rosenberg & Heuman. The article I refer to was written by Louis Bernstein. He quotes a book " Refugee and Remnant: rescue Efforts during the Holocaust - by Zerach Warhaftig. Warhaftig had youth Aliyah certificates that were refused by leading Roshei Yeshiva.And there are other independent sources which are witness to these crimes .
I have an open question relating to Halacha, and oral Law.Is the entire oral law, halacha etc now written on paper? Or are there still some areas which are b'al pe, whether actual hilchot or principles of application, interpretation, judgment etc?
Just look at hoe Eddie and James will do anything to discuss every issue under the sun except the topic at hand, namely the corrupt dayonnim and botei din especially in the US and issuing of fake siruvim. I have already stated unequivocally that anyone who violates the halocho is wrong. If you want me to repeat, I repeat it. Now please stick to the topic at hand and explain the corruption of the BDA, ORA and r herschel schachter, that is all.
The Baltimore bais din allegedly gave up juristiction because Tamar was lo tzias dina and refused to listen to its rulings.Who gave the kangaroo court that followed juristiction over this matter or for that matter over Aharon?If he wishes the matter to be heard at Rav Gestetner's bais din then Tamar will have to go there whether she likes it or not.
Eddie will discuss any topic under the sun (even important ones) instead of answering the topic at hand:" I will no longer post against Eddie and James until either each or both answer the following serious questions of halocho:1) They explain the serious violation of bifurcation in general of the BDA.2) Why BDA/YU don't stand up against arko'oys but support those in arko'oys3) Who gave the BDA the right to use secular law even if both parties agree because claerly any man agreeing is going to get destroyed and they have not explained this to him.4) how r herschel schachter can issue fake siruvim like on meier kin.5) is r herschel shachter paid for being head of ora's "rabbinic" directorship? if yes as i suspect, how much?"
Daniel -- how does one make a copy of this Scribd text?
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