A wave of excitement is gripping parts of the hareidi religious world as a historic reconciliation between the hassidic dynasties of Belz and Satmar is underway.
The Admor of Belz sent a delegation of ten dayanim (rabbinic judges), headed by his personal assistant, to the graves of Satmar Admorim, Baal Ha"Divrei Yoel" and Baal Ha"Berach Moshe," at the Kiryas Yoel cemetery in New York City. [....]
Moshiach's tzeiten
ReplyDeleteSee this from the NY Times in 1981:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/03/nyregion/guard-set-for-belz-rabbi-as-hasidic-tension-grows.html
One gets the feeling that if you just changes the names to Italian-sounding one you'd have a great story about various competing Mafia factions.
ReplyDeleteI say give them both weapons and pass the popcorn..
ReplyDeleteCan someone please explain the reconciltion- it doesn't say that belz is going to stop voting in elections. Is Satmar going to soften it's stance? Seems highly unlikely. The article really doesn't say very much. I'd appreciate more info.
ReplyDeleteif Satmar would learn from the Belzer rebbe and ask forgiveness from every REBBE,ROSH HAYESHIVA,GAGOL HADOR,that they disparaged and insulted and called them names,they would have to visit every jewish cemetery in Europe,the USA,and Israel,and when asking MECHILA from the living ones,they would have to walk from block to block and from house to house in every jewish neighborhood all over the world,it would take them at least 15 years to complete the mission.
ReplyDeleteCH.S
The Arutz Sheva report is very faulty because it misses a key point that they may lack from their vantage point in Israel!
ReplyDeleteThat is, that there is no such thing as "one" Satmar today in America and beyond, there are TWO Satmar dynasties headed by two brothers, both sons of Moshe Teitelbaum (nephew and successor to Yoel Teitelbaum): Rav Aharon Teitelbaum based primarily in Kiryas Yoel-Monroe where the main Satmar burial ground is found, and by the another brother Rav Zalman Leib Teitelbaum based primarily in Williamsburg-Brooklyn. There is no known "peace" between the two brothers who are bitterly at odds with each other and they have split the over-all Satmar movement between them.
While it is true, that as the Arutz Sheva report says: "Lets thus have a look at the facts: The Belzer Rebbe as well as one of the two present Satmarer Rebbes, Rabbi Aharon Teitelbaum, are related through their wives. Are they still enemies?" -- It misses the point that Rav Aharon's brother heads the other half of the Satmar movement and its not clear which brother's part is bigger.
Supposedly Rav Zalman Leib Teitelbaum is the one more recognized by the Eidah HaChareidis that has left Rav Aharon Teitelbaum out in the cold, so perhaps it pays for him to reconcile with Belz which itself has left the Eidah Hachareidis many years ago causing the original Belz-Satmar split.
Unless Belz reconciles with the Eidah Hachareidis in Yerushalayaim and tries to rejoin it in some way, one can assume that the split between Belz and the Eidah remains and that therefore the split between Belz and that part of Satmar headed by Rav Zalman Leib Teitelbaum also remains since Zalman Leib is allied and recognized by the Eidah Hachareidis in its own leadership as next in line after his father and grandfather who were nominal heads of the Eidah themselves.
Recently, Rav Zalman leib Teitelbaum was heard and recorded criticizing the Belzer Rebbe's attempts at a less confrontational approach to secular Israel, see here on ladaat.net: מהר"י מסאטמר נגד דברי האדמו"ר מבעלזא ● להאזנה !
So it therefore cannot entirely be as Arutz Sheva thinks, they are only reporting about HALF of Satmar while the other HALF is still at war with Belz and there is still a long way to go for a full and true reconciliation.
The Yated and Hamodia in America are VERY carefull to give BOTH Rav Aharon AND Rav Zalman Leib EQUAL BILLING as "The Satmar Rebbe" for fear of offending either one and either faction because neither one can claim to control or have the allegiance of the entire Satmar movement and one never knows when dealing with a Satmar chusid who he has real allegiance to. It may me to one or the other brother, to both or perhaps to none. Both Rav Aharon and Rav Zalman Leib have many followers in each other's spheres, so it complicates things.
Peace was alredy offered if belz refrains from taking money for the talmud torah...they refused...
ReplyDeleteTime will tell
Belz also takes from rabbi eckstiens chirstian freindship fund...
1) r& p...both satmar rebbis are regognized by the eidah.
ReplyDelete2) belz had a reign of terror including violence before 30 years...certanly they need מחילה. Satmar did nothing to request מחילה.
3) s shapira...where are your answers you promised to megila 2 months ago?
4) welcome back to israel R eidenson.
Tziki- I was going to continue, but then I got caught up with dealing with your R Aviner bashing and translating R Sternbuchs Teshuva about the Medina that R Eidehnsohn posted and by then the thread had died. In any case, you can get alot of info by Googling "Religious Zionism Debate" You'll get R Gil Student's essays where he deals with the SR taanos and more. You can also get a rebuttal from True Torah Jews Against Zionism. Read them both and see which you like better. Pleast note that the True Torah Jews confuse Dr Tzvi Yehuda (last name Yehuda) with R Tzvi Yehuda Kook. Otherwise they seem very polite- not that I was impressed with their argugumennts.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, I'm still waiting for answer from YOU as to why the SR had to misquote the maharal that he builds his shita on.
"belz had a reign of terror including violence before 30 years...certanly they need מחילה"
ReplyDeletePlease provide a source for this nonsense... or are you making it up as you go along?
"Satmar did nothing to request מחילה."
Other than continuing to insist that belzer chasidim are shutfim to Avoda Zara because they vote in the elections.
Shapira... I once heard r shlomo carlebach say the sqddest thing in the world is an excuse...
ReplyDeleteR eidenson... PerhaPs now that you are back in israel yOu can back copys of the eidah and dorot and see what really happened and stop letting your blog be a forum for eidah- charadie bashers...
ReplyDeleteThe reign of terror is known to anyone in jerusalem in 1981...pograms were mAde in the homes of leading eidah rabbanim.
ReplyDeleteThe gabad rav y wiess זצל told rav b horowitz of manchester-har nof of the tremendious suffering from the belzers... He felt they were killing him ...there will be no מחילה until they go to his קבר. This i heard from rav horovitz's son shlita.
I could say more...maybe later.
"Shapira... I once heard r shlomo carlebach say the sqddest thing in the world is an excuse..."
ReplyDeleteIndeed tziki- wasn't that YOUR EXCUSE two months ago that you can't answer my question on the Satmar Rav because you don't have a Vayoel Moshe? Well it's been two months already, where is it?
Have you read R Gil's stuff yet? It's free on the internet, no need to shlep to Meah Shearim!
"Tziki kedera said...
ReplyDeleteThe reign of terror is known to anyone in jerusalem in 1981"
I lived in Batei ungarin for two years and heard of no such thing. I've already learned not to trust your recollections from 40 years ago.
"...pograms were mAde in the homes of leading eidah rabbanim."
Where does it say this- also in the Eidah magazine? And Rav Kook planned the 1929 riots. We all know that!
"The gabad rav y wiess זצל told rav b horowitz of manchester-har nof of the tremendious suffering from the belzers... He felt they were killing him ...there will be no מחילה until they go to his קבר. This i heard from rav horovitz's son shlita.
I could say more...maybe later."
Please do. I'm waiting to hear about the alien abductions.
Agav ,are you makpid not to spell even a single english word right?
Look at hersel tzig circus tent for more-documents on this case...
ReplyDeleteLook at hersel tzig circus tent for more-documents on this case...
ReplyDeleteWhich Case? And what date was this posted on?
"And Rav Kook planned the 1929 riots. We all know that! "
ReplyDeleteWhat?