I wish to ask a question, to clarify something in this article, and if it came from R' Shternbuch or was an example by r' Travis.
He mentions the gaza war. It also mentioens The Satmar rav, who is quoted by HaRav Shternbuch.
The Rebbe m'Satmar was opposed to any Jewish statehood, the legitimacy of Kibush Haaretz, and any form of military activities by Jews, until the Moshiach. This was the 3 oaths, which became central to his ideology, hence he forbade his follwoers from even visitng the Kotel, since it was liberated by the IDF (which he considered satan's works).
Whilst the Badatz have taken care to distance themselves from the NK extremeists, who sit with neo-nazis in Iran and deny that 6 million were killed (NK cannot accept the figure of 6 million, since it was predicted before the war by Mr Theodore Herzl - NK have revised the figure to 1 Million, in line with their brothers the KKK and Ahmadinejad, as well as other neo nazis and holocaust deniers). So what is the Badatz's line on liberated territory, eg the Kotel; on the right of self defence by organised groups of Jews, ie the IDF, and security services, which are State funded, and essentially secular albeit with Kosher kitchens). Furthermore, acording to Satmar and Badatz, has the mitzva of rodef been abrogated by the 3 oaths?
"Joseph2 said...The article states that in the times of Moshiach, BTs won't be accepted. What the heck is that all about???"
Indeed it is puzzling that the article says that. And it is a chiddush to say it, because until now there had never been any major commentaries or rabbinical authorities that has excluded ACCEPTANCE of Baalei teshuva the way ACCEPTANCE of geirim will be excluded once the true Mashiach is here.
It would be useful to hear what Rav Shternbuch himself meant when he said this and if he would care to explain it.
But here is a possible answer, and that is that the "classical era" of Baalei teshuva has really ended when one could assume that an average secular or non-Orthodox Jew is the product of a Halachically Jewish mother and father. See Kiruv I - The end of kiruv as we know it! (Friday, July 18, 2008) "...the Reform movement openly accepted patrilineal descent 30 years ago (around 1978) it created a de facto schism with Halacha because until then they had a nominal official acceptance of, and paid lip-service to, albeit hypocritical, a public posture that to be Jewish meant to be born of a Jewish mother and to require "some sort of" conversion. But THAT was no longer required once they ruled for themselves that having just a Jewish father was enough to qualify one to be "Jewish"!..."
and Kiruv II - Paradigm change for outreach workers (Friday, July 18, 2008) "...the last 25 years have been different, from the 1980s until the present the numbers of Halachic non-Jewish who thought they were Jews, with most not understanding the ins and outs of the Halachic points, started to be part of all outreach programs and it could not be avoided. Anyone who reads the statistics of intermarriage knows that outside of the Orthodox world intermarriage now stands at about 90% and it is a miracle if one Jew marries another Jew, whereas 25 years ago the official intermarriage rate was "52%"..."
The point being that in today's world a secular person who calls themselves "Jewish" is in all probability (1) the child of one or tow non Jews, if not (2) already a grandchild of some non-Jews, (3) is married to a non-Jew, and (4) has Halachically non-Jewish children and even grandchildren.
So bottom line, secular Jews have assimilated and intermarried so deeply that it is THEY who have blurred the borders FOR THEMSELVES between recognizing, identifying the boundaries between being a gentile and a Jew making it almost impossible to separate the secular Jew from the gentile he/she is a child of, married to and has produced gentile children.
Many of these people are already de fact and even de jure apostates who are baptized members of Christian churches, an it is hard to conceive that with the sudden arrival of the Mashiach and they (maybe) see the errors of their ways and seek to rejoin the Jewish People, that they will get an easy pass.
So what Rav Shternbuch is saying seems to be based on the reality on the ground, that these people have already written themselves off and they will not be allowed to rejoin the Jewish people they have so thoroughly and deliberately abandoned.
In the meantime this has not happened YET and PRESENTLY the doors are still open to genuine geirei tzedek and sincere Baalei teshuva who, if they wish to rejoin Klal Yisroel and become truly Torah observant must do so post haste because the doors are beginning to be nudged shut.
When the truth will be clear to all, there will be no merit or reward for seeing it. It is popular to apply this principle to the heretic, but it also applies to the religious Jew who fights the truth in the name of religion, accepting and propagating dogma without critical thinking.
Recepients and Publicity: Thanx for taking the time to explain things to me. I can't iamgine that Hashem will let any Jew disappear like that. In fact, I've always believed that one of the miracles that will accompany the FR will be the pointing out of many who 'disappeared' and their (Jewish) descendents if any.
I wish to ask a question, to clarify something in this article, and if it came from R' Shternbuch or was an example by r' Travis.
ReplyDeleteHe mentions the gaza war. It also mentioens The Satmar rav, who is quoted by HaRav Shternbuch.
The Rebbe m'Satmar was opposed to any Jewish statehood, the legitimacy of Kibush Haaretz, and any form of military activities by Jews, until the Moshiach. This was the 3 oaths, which became central to his ideology, hence he forbade his follwoers from even visitng the Kotel, since it was liberated by the IDF (which he considered satan's works).
Whilst the Badatz have taken care to distance themselves from the NK extremeists, who sit with neo-nazis in Iran and deny that 6 million were killed (NK cannot accept the figure of 6 million, since it was predicted before the war by Mr Theodore Herzl - NK have revised the figure to 1 Million, in line with their brothers the KKK and Ahmadinejad, as well as other neo nazis and holocaust deniers).
So what is the Badatz's line on liberated territory, eg the Kotel; on the right of self defence by organised groups of Jews, ie the IDF, and security services, which are State funded, and essentially secular albeit with Kosher kitchens).
Furthermore, acording to Satmar and Badatz, has the mitzva of rodef been abrogated by the 3 oaths?
R' Travis has a blog
ReplyDeletehttp://kolleltoraschayim.blogspot.com/
The article states that in the times of Moshiach, BTs won't be accepted. What the heck is that all about???
ReplyDeleteCan someone answer my question above? I'd really appreciate being enlightened.
ReplyDeleteJoseph2
"Joseph2 said...The article states that in the times of Moshiach, BTs won't be accepted. What the heck is that all about???"
ReplyDeleteIndeed it is puzzling that the article says that. And it is a chiddush to say it, because until now there had never been any major commentaries or rabbinical authorities that has excluded ACCEPTANCE of Baalei teshuva the way ACCEPTANCE of geirim will be excluded once the true Mashiach is here.
It would be useful to hear what Rav Shternbuch himself meant when he said this and if he would care to explain it.
But here is a possible answer, and that is that the "classical era" of Baalei teshuva has really ended when one could assume that an average secular or non-Orthodox Jew is the product of a Halachically Jewish mother and father. See Kiruv I - The end of kiruv as we know it! (Friday, July 18, 2008) "...the Reform movement openly accepted patrilineal descent 30 years ago (around 1978) it created a de facto schism with Halacha because until then they had a nominal official acceptance of, and paid lip-service to, albeit hypocritical, a public posture that to be Jewish meant to be born of a Jewish mother and to require "some sort of" conversion. But THAT was no longer required once they ruled for themselves that having just a Jewish father was enough to qualify one to be "Jewish"!..."
and Kiruv II - Paradigm change for outreach workers (Friday, July 18, 2008) "...the last 25 years have been different, from the 1980s until the present the numbers of Halachic non-Jewish who thought they were Jews, with most not understanding the ins and outs of the Halachic points, started to be part of all outreach programs and it could not be avoided. Anyone who reads the statistics of intermarriage knows that outside of the Orthodox world intermarriage now stands at about 90% and it is a miracle if one Jew marries another Jew, whereas 25 years ago the official intermarriage rate was "52%"..."
The point being that in today's world a secular person who calls themselves "Jewish" is in all probability (1) the child of one or tow non Jews, if not (2) already a grandchild of some non-Jews, (3) is married to a non-Jew, and (4) has Halachically non-Jewish children and even grandchildren.
So bottom line, secular Jews have assimilated and intermarried so deeply that it is THEY who have blurred the borders FOR THEMSELVES between recognizing, identifying the boundaries between being a gentile and a Jew making it almost impossible to separate the secular Jew from the gentile he/she is a child of, married to and has produced gentile children.
Many of these people are already de fact and even de jure apostates who are baptized members of Christian churches, an it is hard to conceive that with the sudden arrival of the Mashiach and they (maybe) see the errors of their ways and seek to rejoin the Jewish People, that they will get an easy pass.
So what Rav Shternbuch is saying seems to be based on the reality on the ground, that these people have already written themselves off and they will not be allowed to rejoin the Jewish people they have so thoroughly and deliberately abandoned.
In the meantime this has not happened YET and PRESENTLY the doors are still open to genuine geirei tzedek and sincere Baalei teshuva who, if they wish to rejoin Klal Yisroel and become truly Torah observant must do so post haste because the doors are beginning to be nudged shut.
When the truth will be clear to all, there will be no merit or reward for seeing it. It is popular to apply this principle to the heretic, but it also applies to the religious Jew who fights the truth in the name of religion, accepting and propagating dogma without critical thinking.
ReplyDeleteRecepients and Publicity: Thanx for taking the time to explain things to me. I can't iamgine that Hashem will let any Jew disappear like that. In fact, I've always believed that one of the miracles that will accompany the FR will be the pointing out of many who 'disappeared' and their (Jewish) descendents if any.
ReplyDelete