Nofia Vered Shem-Tov 's comment to "Descendants of Marranos (Anousim) - should they be...":
I am shocked and appalled that someone with the name "sephardi pride" would DARE insinuate that Ashkenazim aren't true Jews! and that it was let go with no reply or comment from anyone!!!
Does sephardi pride know that Avraham and Sarah were the first converts to Judaism?
Aside from that being proud of being Sephardi does not allow one to make outlandish comments or accusations that Jews aren't Jews!!!
Sephardi Pride is a bat anusah who is not being allowed to go to Mikvah because she has yet to convince any rabbi that she should be allowed to go. That she suffers emotional pain and feelings of rejection is understandable, but to call Jews Goyim is unacceptable and disgusting. With "Jews" like you who needs Goyim sephardi pride?
My own family is from Poland, and half Sephardi ()yes, there were Sephardim in Poland people!!!) and half Ashkenazi. All the Ashkenazis assimilated and the Sephardi Jews stayed religious. I decided to align myself with the Sephardi part because after hearing my case and that my father isn't Jewish a Beit Din gave me permission. But I would never go as far as to accuse my Ashkeazi relatives of being non-Jewish and not descendants of Avraham!!
The reason we have lasted as Jews for 3500 years is precisely because Judaism is NOT Christianity, we are not a faith only religion. We tell our children to be Jewish based on a hand written fact - the Torah, the five books of Moses, that has been passed down from generation to generation, since we first stood at Mt. Sinai. We don't ask our children to accept Judaism on faith, but on fact, on evidence of our dedication to keep laws that Hashem gave us over 3500 years ago.
All adult Jews were required to undergo their own conversion at Sinai, including immersion in a Mikvah. Men were also required to undergo circumcision. These are the same exact requirements we demand of converts today - that they, too, undergo the "Sinai treatment". It is understood that the Kuzars - if they even existed at all - did the same. I find it ridiculous that a fictitious group of people written about by one rabbi can all of a sudden be the so-called appointed ancestors of the Jewish people, and used by Sephardim to say Ashkenazis aren't Jews, when we have no actual evidence that Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi was actually writing about real people!!! Keep your fact and fiction straight people!!! Yehuda HaLevi was understood to be using a very large allegory for his writings.
Dear Nofia Shem Tov-
ReplyDeleteThere are many Polish Jews who trace their family's roots back to Spain. It is really fascinating to learn the history of our families.
Many Chassidish families also trace their roots to Italy and Spain. You might look for "Unbroken Chain" by Neil Rosenstein. You could get lucky and find your family in these two massive volumes of European genealogies.
"Sephardi Pride" should contact Rabbi Moshe Shammah in Brooklyn who, in my experiences has been extremely expert in resolving issues of Jewish identity.
Rabbi Seth Farber of ITIM has founded an entire agency whose sole purpose is to resolve issues of Jewish identity and to help North Americans navigate the Israeli bureaucracy with regard to issues of Jewish status.
Judaism is a religion, not a race. It does not matter who we descend from, only that we are Jewish, being born of a Jewish mother or via a conversion k'halacha.
Are you saying that you, Daniel Eidensohn, have a non-jewish father?
ReplyDeleteAnd the Ashkenazim carry the true Jewish tradition of Eretz Yisrael, whose ancient community died out and/or was expelled in the 1200s. Meanwhile, the Bavli corruption became Sephardi Judaism.
ReplyDeleteTrue Eretz Yisrael traditions continue in Ashkenaz as attested by various extra-Bavli works such as the Talmud Yerushalmi, the piyutim (which Sephardim abhor - is it just because of hefsek, or is there also an element of suppression involved?), the Minor Tractates. Elements continue to appear in certain elements of the prayers such as Magen Avot on Friday night and the alternate Retzei in Birchat Kohanim.
Much as some Sephardi Bigots like to claim there was a "national court" in Bavel that ratified the Talmud, no National Court (Sanhedrin) can exist outside of Israel, and it ceased to function in the Tannaitic period (see Graetz and elsewhere). Our tradition remained largely oral, while the Sephardim wrote everything down in codes. That may have been a weakness, as too many people prefer written, orderly texts to traditions hidden in less-edited texts and poetry.
But lack of editing doesn't automatically imply lack of authenticity. In fact, edited texts, such as the LXX or the Samaritan Torah, iron out irregularities, while original texts, such as the Masoretic Torah, have lots of irregularities.
See, we can be Ashkenazi Bigots right up there with the Sephardim.
See? We Ashkenazim can be bigotted about our traditions, too.
shoshi said...
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that you, Daniel Eidensohn, have a non-jewish father?
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this is a guest post - it has nothing at all to do with me
thanbo- the person who posted bigotry toward Ashkenazim was not a Sephardic Jew, but a Gentile who claims to descend from anusim.
ReplyDeleteShe clearly states that she is not accepted by ANY Beit Din as a Jew, therefore she is not Jewish, not a Sephardic Jew and not an Ashkenazic Jew, just an angry Gentile spouting anti Semitic venom at the Jewish people who refuse to accept her version of "Jesus was really a Jew and Christianity is really Judaism" mumble-jumble.
Bigotry is not a Jewish trait. Judaism is a religion and not a race.
thanbo...that really was a nasty post. Not sure what your point was.
ReplyDeleteIf someone did make a bigoted post, the best response is probably not to reveal other sources of bigotry. Someone else might now take your own post to legitimize some silly belief.
The writer "Sephardic Pride" is not Sephardic and does not speak for Sephardim.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that the Sephardic readers of this blog would appreciate if criticism of her comments do not unravel into Sephardic-bashing.
It has nothing to do with Sephardic bashing at all. It has to do with someone coming in from outside, wanting to belong, and because she's angry at one group of Jews, feels she now has the right to decide who's Jewish and who's not, when she's not even Jewish herself.
ReplyDeleteOn another blog she claimed I had no right to take on Sephardi tradition, when what I actually took on was Minhag HaMakom...call it Sephardic...for me the real difference was eating kitniot on Pesach, which I did before I was married and had to go to Beit Din to be able to do it again after my divorce.
The bottom line is NOT that sephardi pride is bad, she's not.
The bottom line is that she doesn't understand Judaism and the processes of Beit Din and she needs Jewish education to get past those blocks, so she won't have to proclaim in public that Ashkenazim aren't Jewish in order to vent her anger. I understand she's been discriminated against, but how is there a tikkun and how is it of any help, for her to return that discrimination?
To Jersey Girl,
ReplyDeleteI saw the photos of that amazing community in Zamosc!! So beautiful, the synagogue! And from what I understand, it was a mixed Ashkenazi Sephardic synagogue!