An interesting question regarding whether a person is slandering another is whether the person's intent was solely to cause harm and whether the evidence he used would lead the average person to conclude what he did. For example an old post indicated that Rabbi Herbert Bomzer's conversion are viewed as problematic by a number of rabbis. At the same time Rabbi Bomzer was defended as a very distinguished Rabbi and talmid chachom whose conversion are not problematic. Is is slander to report that some distinguished rabbis do not approve of his conversion? Is it slander to report that there are other rabbis who disagree with these rabbis and hold that Rabbi Bomzer's conversions are beyond reproach?
Monday, May 11, 2009
Is it slander to say R' Bomzer is controversial?
An interesting question regarding whether a person is slandering another is whether the person's intent was solely to cause harm and whether the evidence he used would lead the average person to conclude what he did. For example an old post indicated that Rabbi Herbert Bomzer's conversion are viewed as problematic by a number of rabbis. At the same time Rabbi Bomzer was defended as a very distinguished Rabbi and talmid chachom whose conversion are not problematic. Is is slander to report that some distinguished rabbis do not approve of his conversion? Is it slander to report that there are other rabbis who disagree with these rabbis and hold that Rabbi Bomzer's conversions are beyond reproach?
Comment feature restored
Commenting has been restored. Due to the threatened legal action I have removed certain postings. I would appreciate it if any one notices any mention of "he who is not to be mentioned" left on the blog to notify me.
Sunday, May 10, 2009
Battle over gay marriage in NY
NYTimes
Pose the question “Would you vote to make same-sex marriage legal?” within the gilded State Senate chamber, and you’ll hear a lot of hedging.
Pose the question “Would you vote to make same-sex marriage legal?” within the gilded State Senate chamber, and you’ll hear a lot of hedging.
Senator Vincent L. Leibell, a Republican who represents parts of Westchester, Putnam and Dutchess Counties, prefers civil unions to marriage. Still, he acknowledged that “society changes over time,” and said that he might not make up his mind until the last minute.
Senator James S. Alesi, a Republican from Rochester who is considered to be another potential swing vote, has issued only vague statements hinting that he is open to voting yes. But he also said, “My public opinion has not been stated yet, and it probably won’t be for a while.”
With six weeks left before the Legislature adjourns for the year, uncertainty surrounds the fate of Gov. David A. Paterson’s bill to legalize same-sex marriage, and lobbying is intensifying.
The measure is expected to easily pass the State Assembly, which approved a similar bill in 2007 and has scheduled its vote for Tuesday.
That means the fate of the legislation will most likely be decided in the closely divided 62-member State Senate.
There, proponents believe they have about two dozen of the 32 votes needed for approval, including those of 19 Democrats who have signed on as sponsors of the measure. [...]
Law & free speech on Internet -
mekubal wrote:
I am fairly clueless about Israeli law so I must ask, can cease and desist letters be sent via email in Israel?
From a similar case I personally had with a forum I posted on, there are a few things I do know about Israeli law.
1) You are not responsible for content that others post upon your blog.
2) Just because the blog has your name on it, does not mean that they can literally sue you or file a police complaint.
3) In order to bring action in Israel they must first directly link you through your IP address to the blog.
4) Israeli privacy laws forbid you internet-provider from disclosing your I/P account information(the vital and missing link) for any reason other than vital and immediate nation security.
5) If your internet provider does disclose your account information thus making you liable to said lawsuit and police complaint, they can be held liable for any damages that you accrue. In other words you can turn around and sue them.
All that being said. I think that you have in general just been scammed. Though since this is the internet I believe the proper terminology is Trolled.
============================
Daas Torah responded:
The above is nice in theory. But it obviously is not of relevance when the Blog is not anonymous, that a law suit hasn't been filed and that the main concern is intimidation. It is obvious that no legal process would support a law suit simply because a public figure's name is mentioned. Yet that is what the lawyer's email stated.
It is an indication of insecurity when a person can not tolerate any criticism and needs to present a carefully orchestrated view of himself to the world.
An alternative, though not necessarily incompatible explanation. is that he fears that an insignificant blogger can actually ruin his reputation. If Rabbi Tropper believes that I have the amazing power of making the Bedatz bend to my will and believes that I have succeeded in forcing them to become defenders of Rabbi Slikfin - then a naive young man might believe that I have the power to derail his run for glory - or at least be the source of bad luck. This absurd claim had been posted on Rabbi Tropper's blog - but it seems he must have realized how stupid it sounds and it is has been removed. But you the original from Rabbi Tropper's blog is posted below here
Abuse & Punishment
I heard another disturbing story about abuse yesterday. The person told me of a well known personality who has definitely abused children. So why wasn't anything done about it? It seems that he has been declared to no longer be a pedophile because he hasn't abused any one recently. It seems two rabbis have certified him to have stopped.
My question is 1) why wasn't it publicized when it was clear that he was a molester 2) why are there no consequences for his actions. 3) on what basis has he been certified not to be a molester. 4) it seems someone just filed a complaint with the police so he obviously hasn't stopped.
This individuals is known as a generous soul who regularly gives rides to kids and his house is frequented by neighborhood children.
When it comes to molesters the only issue of concern is stopping them. But this is a flawed process in which there is no transparency here as to the process that certifies that he has stopped. Community families are not informed that there is pedophile in their midst so that if they don't want to take the risk with their kids they are at least forewarned.
In addition there is absolutely no issue of punishment or even payment for the damage that they have done. One person told me he has been paying $400/ month for six years for a teenager who was destroyed by a molester. There was no suggestion that the molester needed to pay. In the many decrees of the Gaon and Rishonim there is clearly a process of not only punishment but also of placating the victim - what happened to these factors? I am in the process of finding out the answers.
Blog - Comments & Internet Explorer errors
Due to the threatened legal action I have removed certain postings. At the present the comments are disabled - but that will be changed in the near future. I would appreciate it if any one notices any mention of "he who is not to be mentioned" left on the blog to notify me.
Comments relating to this issue will not be posted on this blog - though obviously I will read them.
There also seems to be a new problem with the use of Internet Explorer. It apparently is the result of my use of scribd text windows. So either use Firefox, Chrome or click on the links in the post to read the document.
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RaP's Farewell PostI am truly sorry that you were bullied into silence. I hate bullies and bullying. It is not a cultured, let alone a Jewish, attribute.
Two quick questions for Rabbi Dr. Eidensohn/da'as torah:
Did you consult with a competent lawyer or lawyers in Israel familiar with this area of law, relating to the alleged "libel", on a blog yet, regarding your rights and defenses in the face of the alleged threatening Email you received?
I am positive that there must be those who would defend you, probably even pro bono (for free). It can still be done!
Hopefully you have retained digital copies of all the posts you deleted for your own files if further clarification needs to be made and for your own legal protection!
I assume that you have no further interest in receiving and posting my additional posts and comments on this blog from this point on.
As you know I have shared your main concerns and I have spent well over a year researching and debating the issues of the problems at hand, and this probably means that I will no longer participate in your blog.
I have no regrets so please do not feel bad for me, and I am happy to have served as a catalyst in unmasking and showing the world the true colors of those who have bullied you, and by association Rav Shternbuch and the BADATS, into silence, for who will yet have to answer in ways that they will not be able to intimidate into silence.
Kol tuv!
May 11, 2009 2:15 PM
In the US, there is freedom of speech and blogs fall under "freedom of the press, first amendment".
In the US, what this attorney tried to do to you would be considered a SLAPP (Strategic law suit against public policy) in order to silence your First Amendment right of Free Speech.
In the US, an attorney could be disbarred for filing a SLAPP and reprimanded for even threatening it.
Furthermore in many US states, you could sue someone who files a SLAPP suit against you and collect damages. (Anti SLAPP States).
If you have no right of freedom of speech in Israel, then you may as well just pack up and forget blogging because now, anyone can control every word you write just by threatening you with a lawsuit.
In the US, there are certain conditions that have to be met for libel:
1. first of all "the person who is not to be mentioned" is a wealthy and well known celebrity so the burden of proof of libel would be virtually impossible to meet. It is unheard of to get a libel judgment against a famous person because he has to prove absolute malice in your intentions. You can look at "rags" such as the National Enquirer and see that this is true.
2. There has to be no other reason for your post except that you wish to malign the person. This is impossible to prove true in this case since you are trying to understand halachic implications of many issues.
3. what you write has to be untrue and it has to be proven that you KNEW it was untrue. This is also not the case since it is quite obvious that you believe everything you write.
4. opinion - most of what is posted on this blog is opinion and not being presented as fact and therefore cannot be libel. This is why anonymous comments cannot be libelous. Nor can you be held accountable for anonymous comments.
5. no actual injury. The person who does not want to be mentioned in a blog has not suffered any financial or other provable injury.
6. Fair comment on a matter of public interest. Obviously the future of the Jewish religion is of importance to both you and the posters of comments.
7. Religious privilege - it is normal for a Rabbi such as yourself to issue religious opinions and rulings on a topic. To attempt to restrain your right of Free Speech, by threatening a SLAPP suit, in the US would also be restraining your Right to Freedom of Religion. In the US, this is a serious crime and punished as such. What if Rabbis could never say "such and such is not kosher?" That is restraint of Freedom of Religion.
I would recommend that you get in touch with Orthomom a wonderful blogger who was sued for libel. She prevailed and I am pretty sure that her attorney was free.
The threat of a SLAPP suit against your blog is indicative of the level of control that these missionaries have on the Orthodox Jewish world.
Daas Torah seemed to be a beacon of hope in what appears to be a lost battle. Now, that this blog is completely under the control of Evangelicals who are restraining MY rights of Free Speech, why even bother to fight?
I live in the US, in fact in the same state and county as the "person who does not want to be mentioned" on a blog.
Perhaps, I am the right person to file the anti SLAPP suit against the "person who does not want to be mentioned", because it is MY First Amendment Right of Free Speech is being restrained.
Furthermore, if you want to somehow host this discussion from my IP address (or something like that), I would love to be sued for libel for blogging about the "person who does not want to be mentioned".
I have a friendly relationship with some of the writers from the local newspapers and also in Brooklyn, where I used to write for a Jewish paper. My goal would be to get the name of the person who does not want to be mentioned in a blog in as many Jewish and secular newspapers as possible.
Most journalists welcome a SLAPP suit because it is lots of free publicity for their publication and cause and in the end, they usually get to collect a few thousand dollars in an anti SLAPP suit on top of it.
I would really LOVE to be sued in a SLAPP by "the person who does not want to be mentioned in a blog". Then I could publicize and bring this cancerous issue among the Jewish people to light.
Maybe I should just start a blog for the sole purpose of discussing "the person who does not want to be mentioned in a blog" and his goal of destroying Judaism with his billions of dollars of oil money and his puppet quasi Rabbis.
If this is a topic that posters are interested in, I will do it.