Guest Post of Dr. Nachum J. Stone regarding this morning's post from Rav Shternbuch: Rav Sternbuch attacks Mizrachnikim for hating religion [Nachum Stone is a graduate of Yeshiva University and University of Maryland . He has been practicing dentistry and giving shiurim in Maale Adumim for the last 26 years.
His son got engaged to Ofra this morning.]
He asked me to add that he is not naïve or condescending
I decided to include Dr. Stone's essay in the hopes that his well written essay gives a basis of communication between the two worlds.
updated with my introductory comments
Dr. Stone your essay is well written and condescending. You paint a rather black and white picture - when shades, colors and textures would be more accurate. Your belief that charedim are not hated but only resented - apparently reflects your experience - but that is not what goes on in the world. As Elie Wiesel put it - there is no greater hatred than hatred of brothers.===============
You give absolutely no credence or even possibility that charedi hashkofa has any legitimate basis in the sources. You seem to assume as something that is obvious that chareidi gedolim are incapable of understanding simple hashkofa - which you in your greater wisdom have been trying to share with them for years. You claim that the chareidi view of Judaism is a major distortion which serves only to protect them from their responsibilities to the greater community. The possiblity of it having any legitimacy seems outrageous to you.
In sum the caricature of yiddishkeit that you ascribe to Rav Sternbuch and the chareidim perfectly mirrors their view of you and your community. But hopefully that will change.
What good comes from this discussion? Does Rav Shternbuch really believe that all RZ hate their religion, their Torah? All the great talmidei chachamim and their baalei batim hate the Faith?! All of the Briskers [ not R David and his isolationists, but the true Rambamists ] hate the Torah ?!
Who hates who here? What Talmid Chacham says of fellow Jews “Amalek” ? I pray that that quote was in error. I still havent met any yid, frum or otherwise, who hates chareidim , despite [ as proven by?] the erev pesach debate on your blog
I know many who hate charedi politics, who cringe every time MK Gafni opens his mouth, but they still NEVER express hatred for the man himself. R Shternbuch is valiantly carrying on the fight on behalf of R Sonnenfeld ,but who gains from this invective?
In Moreh Nevuchim 3:46 Rambam [ it's long , the paragraph on chatat seirim] identifies the first, most recidivistic, and deadliest, sin of am yisrael as sinat achim .
I'll attach here a link to a short essay I wrote almost 2 years ago that was posted on the Havolim blog that addresses the tension between various groups in the religious community that has since festered into today’s “declaration of war” .
http://havolim.blogspot.co.il/2011/07/dr-nachum-j-stone-guest-post-on.html
http://havolim.blogspot.co.il/2011/07/dr-nachum-j-stone-guest-post-on.html
In the course of his vort on the unique circumstances of Milchemet Midyan, K’vod Baal Achsanya, HaRav HaGaon B, asked why is it that “Frum Jews [who] hate the Chareidim for avoiding the draft.” I would like to try to explain on a few levels. Firstly, no one I have ever met hates the Chareidim for anything. A much more accurate description would be resentment.
It should be noted that all draft-dodgers are looked down-upon in Israeli society. Citizens protest if non-soldiers are hired for entertainment. Most job applications inquire of one’s military service. It’s just part of a society whose existence is so fragile.
HaRav B seems to want to include modern Chareidi draft-avoiders in Rambam’s military exemption. [This is not the place to debate that point, but it is not universally accepted that Rambam exempts ANYONE from a Milchemet Mitzvah. V’AKMAL ] I have never heard any of the yeshiva students make such a claim, but to do so would be ridiculous. Can any contemporary Talmid Yeshiva claim to “פרק מעל צוארו עול החשבונות הרבים אשר בקשו בני האדם”? These are the same Talmidim who whine when their stipends are 2 weeks late? Who think that all businesses are somehow "obligated” to give them a special discount? Who demand equal funding as army-veteran university students? Are any of them on that level?
Even if we were to grant that the Rambam Levite exemption exists, it certainly is not obligatory upon anyone to exempt himself. Imagine if these “Klei Kodesh” were in the army. Would it not change the nature of the army to a Machaneh Kadosh? How would motivation change, how would morale change? How would the self-image of these Bnei Yeshiva change? The army already has special yeshivishe units. Perhaps they are not perfect, but if they were more heavily populated, they would function better too!
The original agreement between the Chazon Ish and PM Ben Gurion was intended to free-up a few hundred superior scholars to replenish the rabbinic cadre after the holocaust. Now, the Torato Umanuto exemption has become an almost mandatory burden on all who would call themselves Chareidi. They are pariahs if they don’t “choose” the exemption. So the system is abused, and the newspapers duly report the sophisticated massive fraud.
Fictitious students get government stipends to learn in largely virtual yeshivot. Perhaps the Chilul Hashem drives some of the disgust? Are
all the Chareidim being stigmatized because of the abuse of the few?
Certainly. On the other hand how many of the Talmidei Yeshivot are true
matmidim whose time can’t be sacrificed for communal defense? So the 95% who
abuse the system give all the others a bad name!
This leads us to the heart of the problem. The future Talmidei Yeshivot are indoctrinated from a young age, that they are the true defenders of Israel. Without their precious learning we would lose all our wars! It’s hard to fault the kids; the ideology is axiomatic for them. So, not only do they not serve. Not only do they not respect or thank those who serve (and die…) but they hold themselves superior. I think we’re very close to an answer to HaRav B’s question.
Another point raised was “Shevet Levi had the job of davening for Klal I’m sure they did.Unfortunately, these modern-day self-appointed Leviim have neglected that part of their job. The contemporary non-participants would rather stomp out of shule than daven for the soldiers, even the dead ones. They won’t use a siddur that includes a prayer for our soldiers [really, I’ve seen them check]. I had one guy leave the ammud as shatz one Shabbat [and then the building] when asked to say the mishbarach for the soldiers- in the middle of a war! Yes, in America, there’s more of a chance that the Chareidim will pray for the soldiers, there’s less of a chance that the youth might be tempted to be one. Yet still, those shules that do daven for the soldiers are few.
There’s a strange paradox here. On the one hand, the individual Talmid Yeshiva can’t be faulted for doing what absolutely everyone around him is doing, what he has been trained to do since birth. It would be quite radical for him to do otherwise. Indeed, the few charedim who do join the army probably are trying to get out of the charedi system anyway. On the other hand, many in the younger charedi leadership have told me that they know that what they are doing is probably wrong, definitely causing friction, and unlikely to last in the long-term.But they see themselves powerless to change anything; the “street” won’t let them. So the “street” doesn’t bear personal responsibility, but is responsible for the perpetuation of an intolerable situation that guarantees animosity.
We should also bear in mind something very important psychologically- who else doesn’t serve? The Arabs. Who else claims to hate the state and wishes for it to disappear- Simplistic? Yes. But herds think simplistically.
To close, I too, would like to quote our parsha: האחיכם יבאו
למלחמה ואתם תשבו פה?!
Another point raised was “Shevet Levi had the job of davening for Klal I’m sure they did.Unfortunately, these modern-day self-appointed Leviim have neglected that part of their job. The contemporary non-participants would rather stomp out of shule than daven for the soldiers, even the dead ones. They won’t use a siddur that includes a prayer for our soldiers [really, I’ve seen them check]. I had one guy leave the ammud as shatz one Shabbat [and then the building] when asked to say the mishbarach for the soldiers- in the middle of a war! Yes, in America, there’s more of a chance that the Chareidim will pray for the soldiers, there’s less of a chance that the youth might be tempted to be one. Yet still, those shules that do daven for the soldiers are few.
There’s a strange paradox here. On the one hand, the individual Talmid Yeshiva can’t be faulted for doing what absolutely everyone around him is doing, what he has been trained to do since birth. It would be quite radical for him to do otherwise. Indeed, the few charedim who do join the army probably are trying to get out of the charedi system anyway. On the other hand, many in the younger charedi leadership have told me that they know that what they are doing is probably wrong, definitely causing friction, and unlikely to last in the long-term.But they see themselves powerless to change anything; the “street” won’t let them. So the “street” doesn’t bear personal responsibility, but is responsible for the perpetuation of an intolerable situation that guarantees animosity.
We should also bear in mind something very important psychologically- who else doesn’t serve? The Arabs. Who else claims to hate the state and wishes for it to disappear- Simplistic? Yes. But herds think simplistically.
To close, I too, would like to quote our parsha: האחיכם יבאו
למלחמה ואתם תשבו פה?!
