Rav Shwadron: Yeshivos are hashchasa!- the problem of institutional learning

A number of years ago, Rav Shwadron visited Monsey. My brother came to him with a problem. A video store had just opened in Monsey and it obviously was a serious threat to the spirituality of the community. When my brother told him the problem he didn't seem to be upset. My brother thought perhaps he didn't understand what a video store was - so he explained it to him. "Video stores are hashchasa - they cause spiritual destruction." Rav Shwadron replied, "Video stores are hashchasa? - yeshivos are hashchasa!"

Obviously Rav Shwadron who was a product and supporter of yeshivos didn't mean that a yeshiva is no different than a video store. However he obviously was bothered by a negative aspect of yeshivos. In this he was not alone.

Rav Hutner  seemed to have a similar concern. In a drasha in the back of the Pachad Yitzchok for Shavuos is the presentation he gave at a conference on education. To paraphrase:

 We Jews are very proud of our educational institutions. We take pride that when the European were primitive barbarians we were a cultured and educated people. However we should realize that the institutional education of yeshivos was only plan B. It was instituted by Chazal at a time when plan A wasn't working. Plan A was that fathers and the home were to provide the Jewish education. When the home environment became corrupt by secular culture and values - the children were taken from the home and educated in an isolated environment. However that doesn't change the fact that the yeshiva is plan B - and that ideally the home should do the education.

I was also told that Rav Hutner said - in Sedom there was bed that guests were invited to use. However if the guest was too short he was stretched to fit the bed and if he was too long is feet were chopped off. We have a similar process called yeshiva education - but if the child doesn't fit we don't chop off the feet - we chop off the head.

A conversation with Rav Sternbuch about the recent reports about Chareidi extremists

I met with Rav Moshe Sternbuch yesterday afternoon. In the course of discussion I asked about the newspaper reports about chareidi violence and why it wasn't being condemned. He dismissed the issue as being the result of the newspapers looking for a story. He noted that the actual number of victims has been very small - including 1 case of a girl being spat upon - and that the perpetrators were a small number of fringe elements that do not have the approval or encouragement of the chareidi community. He did not see a need for a public comment for something which is obviously wrong and for which there is no justification for blaming the community. His gabbai also mentioned that the police have arrested a number of chareidim without solid evidence in attempt to "get" the chareidim.

I was also requested to ask him about the case of frum people who go skiing and let others use their passes - something which constitutes theft. Is it permitted to daven in a minyan with them. Rav Sternbuch said that if the people don't view it as theft then they still can be counted for a minyan. He mentioned a Rabbi Akiva Eiger who said that people who shave with a razor - yet think it is permitted - can be counted in a minayn.

Rav Kook supports Argentine rabbis' measures against insincere conversions

Rav Kook(Daas Cohen Y.D. #154): [Written to the rabbis of Argentina] Even though the halacha is that those who convert for ulterior motives are valid gerim (Yevamos 24b) and this includes a man who converts for the sake of a woman and a woman who converts for the sake of a man, it appears from Tosfos (Chullin 3b) and Yevamos (24b) that this is only if the conversion involves a full commitment to keeping the mitzvos. But if the conversion is not complete –meaning without full observance of the mitzvos and also the motivation was not proper – then they are worse then regular lion‑converts that are mentioned there in a braissa. There is one opinion that these lion‑converts are genuine gerim but they are like the Kusim because according to the view that they are lion‑converts they are considered according to the halacha as total non‑Jews because there are two problems. 1) the conversion was not for the sake of Heaven 2) they don’t fully observe the mitzvos because as a minimum they worship idols through shituf as is learned from the verse “and yet they still worship their gods.” The language of Tosfos in Chullin is that they didn’t convert completely and thus it was not only idolatry that they violated. Thus in any case where the mitzvos are not observed properly and the motivation wasn’t proper – then there is no conversion at all. We see this in the language of the Rambam and Shulchan Aruch (Y.D. 248) that a person who converts for ulterior motivation, we are concerned about him until his righteousness is established. In other words if we see that he is not conducting himself properly according to the halacha and he had ulterior motivation for conversion – this is not considered complete conversion. In fact by accepting a ger who is not going to be observant, we transgress the prohibition of placing a stumbling block before the blind in any case. For if we say that the conversion is not valid even bedieved and yet we accepted them – then that causes problems for society because they are treating non‑Jews as Jews. How many snares and destructions results from that – especially concerning kiddushin, gittin and yibum. The Jewish husband will mistakenly view their son as his son and if he has a Jewish wife afterwards and he dies without other children, his wife will be mistakenly allowed to remarry without chalitza even if he has a brother. There are many other harmful cases that can result. On the other hand if they are truly gerim then bedieved they are fully obligated to keep the entire Torah. Then the beis din causes the gerim problems because they are now obligated in punishment because of all the Torah prohibitions they are violating. Prior to conversion they were not obligated and not punished for transgressing the Torah. We see this in Yevamos (47a) that we are to instruct the candidate for conversion the punishment for not keeping the mitzvos. We tell him , “you should know that before you came to convert, if you ate chelev fat there was no punishment of kares. If you transgressed Shabbos you would not be punished with stoning. However once you convert , eating chelev fat is punishable with kares and profaning Shabbos is punished with stoning. Thus we see that we are commanded about lifnei ivair (placing a stumbling block before the blind – even for non‑Jews. This is stated in Avoda Zara (6b): How do you know that you should not offer a limb from a living animal to a non‑Jew? Because the Torah says “do not place a stumbling block before the blind.” And it is a kal v’chomer concerning our case because he causes him to be have a great obligation as a Jew and he will be punished for his transgressions of the Torah. Therefore it is wonderful what you and the other holy rabbis [of Argentina] have done in making and strengthening the boundaries in Argentina where there is a great breakdown in the walls and there is a great number of gerim who are not sincere – and you have decided not to accept gerim at all. Whoever genuinely wants to attach themselves to the holy Jewish people should come to Israel where they will carefully be evaluated by the Jewish courts. Only those who are genuinely committed to converting for the sake of Heaven and will be fully observant - will be accepted…

The Ugly Chareidim & their Frightened Leaders

It is time to point out the obvious - the chareidim collectively are being viewed as vile, disgusting creatures. There are those who claim that it is because of the biased and hateful media while others say the odious behavior is obviously done by a bunch of extreme nuts in Israel. But after reading the embarrassing defense of chareidi idiots by so called moderate voices and after hearing the deafening silence of the leadership - (a press release of the Aguda & RCA is not sufficient) - there is a deeper problem which can't be blamed on others.

There has been a collective amnesia in the Chareidi world that we live in Golus. There is a further problem of Chareidi insisting on their so-called "rights" even when it severely offends everyone else. They have collectively forgotten that their main purpose is to create kiddush hashem and minimize chilul hashem. I have heard that since the Beit Shemesh activity and the fight for gender separation on public buses - there has been a significant drop in attendence at Arachim kiruv conferences. There has apparently been a drop of enrollment in schools by secular Jews who were attracted to the positive elements of religion.

The arrogance and distain that exists in religious circles literally scares not only the secular Jews but it also frightens the so called normal observant Jews. There is simply no leadership to stand up to religious coercion within the Charedei ranks. One gadol said, "Everyone knows that these activities are from the extremists so the majority are not being blamed. Everybody knows that these elements won't respond to criticism. So what is the benefit of protesting?"

The answer is simply - it is to reassure the rest of the world that the worst fears of the secular Jew about us are not true.  This fear is a tremendous chilul  hashem. It is not enough to call for the 99% of charedi to protest.

IT IS TIME FOR EVERY SINGLE LEADER TO SPEAK UP DIRECTLY. But sadly they are afraid.


Update: On my way to Boro Park for Shabbos, I was stopped in the Atlantic Avenue subway station by a goy who said he was from Trinidad. He said, "Do you know what is going on in Israel? Did you see the report from CNN? I know that you Jews treat women in a dignified fashion - but why are they forcing women to sit in the back of the bus? "

Is assisted martyrdom - desirable or is it murder?

Maharam M’Rothenberg(2:59): Question: During the massacre of the Jews in Koplinsh a man’s wife and 4 sons begged him to kill them to save them from falling into the hands of the mob. He did so and then also tried to kill himself but was prevented by others. He wants to know whether he needs to atone for killing his family? Answer: I don’t have a clear legal answer to this question. On the one hand, the gemora clearly indicates that it is permitted to take one’s own life to sanctify G‑d’s name… but to kill others it is not clear what the halachic basis is to permit such a thing… Nevertheless, it is obvious that it is permitted since we have heard about many great sages who martyred their sons and daughters [to save them from the Crusaders]. … Whoever would require atonement in these cases is slandering our pious ancestors. Since his motivation was love of his Creator and those he killed were his beloved family and they begged him to do it, …there is no basis to require atonement.

Daas Zekenim of Baalei Tosfos(Bereishis 9:4): And surely your blood of your lives will I require… - This is a prohibition against committing suicide. Bereishis Rabbah asks, “You might mistakenly think that this prohibition applies to cases such as Chananiya, Mishael and Azariah – therefore it says “ach” (and surely). That means that you might think that even in this case where people are dying to glorify G‑d’s name that one is not allowed to bring about one’s death - even if he is afraid he cannot withstand the pressure to violate the Torah. Therefore the Torah says ‘ach’ to teach that in times of pressure to violate the Torah - that it is permitted to commit suicide. Similarly concerning Shaul who committed suicide to avoid being tortured – an exception is made to allow suicide in such cases where a person doesn’t think he can withstand the torture. This analysis is used to justify killing children during times of religious persecution to make sure they are not converted...

Daas Zekenim of Baalei Tosfos (Bereishis 9:4): And surely your blood of your lives will I require However there are other authorities who prohibit suicide and killing. They say you might mistakenly think that martyrdom is only permitted in the case of Chananel Mishael and Azariah because they were already sentenced to death – therefore the verse says ‘ach’ that one can refuse compliance with demands to violate halacha and thus bring about death - even if not already sentenced to death. But in any event one can never commit suicide. One can only bring about one’s death at the hands of others for not complying with demands to violate halacha. You might mistakenly think that an exception is made in a case such as Shaul who committed suicide to avoid severe torture. Therefore the Torah says ‘ach’ to say that there is absolute no situation where suicide is permitted and in fact the Sages disapproved Shaul’s suicide. There was an incident where a rabbi killed many children during the Crusades because he was afraid that they would be forced to convert. There was another rabbi with him who was extremely angry at him for doing so and called him a murderer but the first rabbi ignored him. The second rabbi told him, that if his view not to kill the children were correct then the first rabbi would die a horrible death. And thus it was. The first rabbi was captured by the Crusaders and they flayed his skin and placed sand between his skin and his flesh. In addition the decree to convert was nullified and if the first rabbi hadn’t killed the children they would not have been pressured to convert.

Maharal:Jews are less likely to change from moral chastisement than goyim

Maharal(Netzach Yisroel 14) I have already explained with clear proofs that the soul is the dominate factor in the nature of the Jew. For example, being stiff necked is one of the bad qualities that Jews have. Practically speaking that means that Jews refuse to accept chastisement and will not listen to corrective advise. This is in fact because they are not essential materialistic. Only something which is materialistic is readily altered. Consequently Jews are very resistant to change and will not accept the advice of others. Furthermore the (Beitza 25b) states that they are the most aggressive and pushy people. That is because they have the power associated with being the defining figure that is separate and distinct from the readily altered material. In contrast the non‑Jews readily change their ways and readily accept correction. The Yerushalmi (Sanhedrin 11:5) therefore explains that Yonah did not want to go on a mission to Nineveh because he knew that this people would readily repent after hearing his chastisement. This would reflect badly on the Jews who stubbornly resisted repenting…

Shemos Rabbah(42:9): What is meant by saying that the Jews are a stiff‑necked people (Shemos 32:9)? R. Judah b. Poloyah said: They deserve to be beheaded. R. Jakim said: There are three who are inherently arrogant and overly self‑confident. The dog amongst animals, the rooster amongst birds, and the Jews amongst the nations. R. Yitzchok b. Redifa said in the name of R. Ammi: You think that this is said disparagingly, but it is really a praise. It means that a Jew will more readily be hanged then give up Judaism. R. Abin said: To this very day Israelites in the Diaspora are called the stiff‑necked people. R. Nahmani said: To prove to you that they are stiff‑necked, you should note that when G‑d was about to give them the Torah it says, On the morning of the third day, there were thunder and lightning and a thick cloud upon the mountain, and the sound of a very loud shofar (Shemos 14:16). G‑d said: ‘I will show them all My miracles, and I only hope that it will be of some purpose.’

Torah Study & Working: Payment for Torah - Rav Moshe Feinstein

Igros Moshe(Y.D. 2:116): Concerning the matter of Torah scholars who want to engage in Torah study and advance in their knowledge of Torah – both quantitatively and qualitatively – and they therefore receive payment from kollel for their livelihood. This also applies to rabbis and teachers who take pay as well as roshei yeshivos. Question: Is their taking money correct or not. Is it an act of piety not to take the money and they should rather support themselves with other jobs? Answer: There is no question that they are acting correctly. This is the ruling of the Rema (Y.D. 246:21) that even a healthy person is allowed. It is permitted for a scholar and his students to receive payments from that which is given in order to strengthen the learning of Torah – because this enables them to study Torah properly. Furthermore the Shach (Y.D. 246:20) also cites the Kesef Mishna who rules similarly - even if you wish to say that this is not the view of the Rambam – because all the scholars prior to the Rambam and afterwards turn payment from the community. And even if the halacha is like the Rambam [that payment is prohibited] it has been agreed by the gedolim in all generations that it is a necessary emergency (ais l’asos) which allows temporarily abrogating the Torah law. That is because if they are not paid they would not be able to engage in Torah study properly and then Torah would be forgotten. But now that they receive payments they are able to study and grow in Torah. This is the language of the Kesef Mishna (Hilchos Talmud Torah 3:10) at the end. This is also the view of the Maharshal….Therefore it is a clear and obvious ruling that has been accepted in all generations – whether because it is the din or because of emergency decree of ais l’asos – that it is permitted to engage in Torah study or to teach Torah to others or to be a rabbi or posek and to receive payment for it. Furthermore a person should not avoid payment even as an act of piety. I say that all those people who claim they are acting out of piety to comply with the view of the Rambam – it is the advice of the yetzer harah in order to stop learning Torah and go to work and business until at the end they will forget even the little that they already learned and they won’t even be able to have even brief fixed times for study. Therefore if the early generations with like angels and they said it is impossible to study and grow wise in Torah when engage in business and work then surely in our generation of orphans of orphans. In addition we don’t have righteous women who are willing to suffer the poverty and deprivation as in earlier generations. There is no question that there is not a single person who can brag that he can work and yet become a grow properly in Torah knowledge. Therefore do not take seriously the thought offered by the advice of the yetzer harah that it is sinful and a lack of piety to take money to learn in kollel or to be paid for being a rabbi, teacher or rosh yeshiva. This is all a strategy to depart from Torah. If there are generous men who donate for the livelihood of many Torah scholars then there will be an increase in bnei Torah and gedolim as well as poskim according to the will of G‑d. For there is nothing for G‑d in the world except the 4 amos of halacha.

Falsely claiming to have ruach hakodesh is capital offence of being a false prophet

Yad Rama (Sanhedrin 93b): “The Messiah-as it is written (Yeshaya 11:2), And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge of the fear of the Lord. And shall make him of quick understanding [wa-hariho] in the fear of the Lord. … Rava said that means that Moshiach will have the ability to smell a man and determine whether he is guilty or innocent.” That means that Moshiach will understand through ruach hakodesh the truth of the matter. He will not judge based on the claims of the litigants nor will he judge based on witnesses but will simply know through ruach hakodesh who is innocent and who is guilty… The gemora states, “Bar Kosiba (Bar Kochva) ruled for two years and then told the Rabbis that he was Moshiach.   The Rabbis replied to him that it is foretold that Moshiach will judge guilt or innocence by means of smell – therefore they asked him to judge a case purely on the basis of smell to demonstrate that he was truly Moshiach. When the Rabbis saw that he was not able to judge by smell alone they killed him.” This can be explained by saying that Bar Kochva was liable to capital punishment because he was a false prophet since he claimed to be Moshiach who has ruach hakodesh which enables him to judge by smell.  Thus falsely claiming to have ruach hakodesh makes a person a false prophet.

Rav S. R. Hirsch & his contemporary incarnation - Rabbi Slifkin

Rabbi Slifkin recently published an article on the Making of Post-Haredim  which I read and said "so what?" However Thursday night I got a call from a friend who was calling 4 a.m. from Jerusaelm who had just finished reading it and he couldn't believe that any frum person could say such things. In contrast over Shabbos, a relative who is a solidly chareidi thinker and educator told me that the article very accurately described what is happening in the Chareidi world. Coincidentally I noticed the following comment Rav S. R. Hirsh regarding Avraham - which reminded me very much of Rabbi Slifkin's article. Rav Hirsch was not Chareidi and his views were viewed by Chareidi gedolim - such as the Brisker Rav - as merely expedient or useful for a particular time and place. I heard this from Rabbi Bulman who lamented Rabbi Elias' attempt to make Hirsch into a Chareidi thinker in his edition of the 19 Letters.

Rav Hirsch (Bereishis 12:1) [Regarding Avraham being ordered to leave his homeland,  birthplace  and father's house]...It is certainly not meant to be belittleing of this factor if the planting of the first Jewish germ demanded forsaking fatherland, birth-place and the paternal home. It is rather just the appreciation of these factors wherin lies the greatness of the isolation demanded here. This demand itself placed Abraham in the completest contrast to the ruling tendency of his age. Not individualism, not recognition of the worth and importance of the individual, but centralization which makes men lose their personal value, and lower them to mere subordinate workers, mere bricks for the building of the fame of a supposed representation of the community, that was the tendency of the age, which under the slogan of "let us make a name for ourselves" began building the tower of the glory of Man. This tendency begot the erroneous conception of  a majority which has sway in every direction and in every case. So that finally everything is considered the highest by the majority, ipso facto becomes considered and honored as the highest by everybody. It is true of course that the majority of every community should be the representative of all that which is truly the highest and holiest; and it is in the presumption that such is the case, that Judaism, too, values attachment to the community as being supremely important. Nevertheless at the head of Judaism the words לך לך "go for yourself" stand as being higher still; nobody may say: I am as good, as honest, as everybody else is, as is the fashion here today. Everybody is responsible to G-d for himself. If necessary, alone - with G-d - when the principle worshipped by the majority is not the true godly one. this what was demanded from Abraham as the starting point of his and his future people's mission. Our very language teaches, as we have seen, in the word ארץ and בית how strong are the bonds that attach a person both; yet stronger than the bond that attaches us to fatherland and family should the bond be that attaches us to G-d. How could we have existed, how continue to exist, if we had not, from the very beginning received from Abraham the courage to be a minority!

Rav S. R.Hirsch - we can't emulate great men who are portrayed as flawless

Rav S. R. Hirsch(Bereishis 12: 10 – 13):.  The Torah does not seek to portray our great men  as perfectly ideal figures; it deifies no man. It says of no one: “Here you  have the ideal; in this man the Divine assumes human form!” It does  not set before us the life of any one person as the model from which  we might learn what is good and right, what we must do and what we  must refrain from doing. When the Torah wishes to put before us a  model to emulate, it does not present a man, who is born of dust.  Rather, God presents Himself as the model, saying: “Look upon Me!  Emulate Me! Walk in My ways!” We are never to say: “This must be  good and right, because so-and-so did it.” The Torah is not an “anthology  of good deeds.” It relates events not because they are necessarily  worthy of emulation, but because they took place.    The Torah does not hide from us the faults, errors, and weaknesses  of our great men, and this is precisely what gives its stories credibility.  The knowledge given us of their faults and weaknesses does not detract  from the stature of our great men; on the contrary, it adds to their  stature and makes their life stories even more instructive. Had they  been portrayed to us as shining models of perfection, flawless and  unblemished, we would have assumed that they had been endowed  with a higher nature, not given to us to attain. Had they been portrayed  free of passions and inner conflicts, their virtues would have seemed  to us as merely the consequence of their loftier nature, not acquired  by personal merit, and certainly no model we could ever hope to  emulate.

Rav Moshe Feinstein - untrue story being circulated

Yesterday on Tzom Gedaliya (Oct 2) I was at a well known shul where a well known Rav spoke between mincha & maariv. Amongst other things he was talked about the greatness and uniqueness of Rav Moshe Feinstein.  He said the following. There is a story in the Artscroll biography describing an incident in which Rav Moshe cited a Pri Megadin during a shiur. One of those present argued that the citation was off by one simon. Rav Moshe insisted on the spot that a sefer be brought and it be determined whether he was right. When he was asked why it was so important, he replied that since he poskened from memory - if his memory wasn't perfect he could no longer posken from memory.

The Rav who was speaking added that he had heard in the name of Rav Elimelech Bluth- who was Rav Moshe's shamash for 20 years - that he had not seen Rav Moshe learn from a sefer in the last 20 years of his life. He was so busy - he had to rely on his memory in order to posken.

Tonight I was a family simcha which was attended by Rav Bluth and I asked him whether he in fact had said that he hadn't seen Rav Moshe learn from a sefer in the last 20 years of his life. He responded, "I can't say it so because it isn't true."

UPDATE:

I called the rav this morning ( Oct 4). He is truly an ish emes. He said he had heard directly from Rav Bluth that Reb Moshe hadn't looked in sefer for 20 years, I told him Rav Bluth denied it. He immediately called Rav Bluth and was told he had misunderstood him. Rav Bluth told him that Reb Moshe was not constantly looking in a sefer but was constantly writing but he did use seforim to look up issues. The rav called me back to explain his error and said he would publicly announce his error today in shul after mincha. I was astounded that the rav was so focused on emes and the effort to correct what seemed a relatively minor issue (though important to understand the derech of psak of Rav Moshe Feinstein) , he said the Chazon Ish and others said to be careful to tell the precise truth about gedolim. He thanked me for informing him of the error.

This passion for the truth that this rav demonstrated is the foundation of emunas chachomim. We presume that our sages have such a concern for truth. However if we see in otherwise - there is no mitzva to be stupid. Emunas chachomim is not a synonym for intellectual laziness and lack of concern for reality.

They are trying to make it illegal to question the results of a bad election.”

 https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/aug/09/donald-trump/trump-says-doj-is-trying-to-criminalize-asking-que/

The Aug. 1 federal indictment against Donald Trump over efforts to subvert 2020 election results said the former president "had a right, like every American, to speak publicly about the election" and make false claims. It says Trump also was entitled to challenge the results lawfully through recounts, audits or lawsuits. 

 Trump was indicted for his actions, not for questioning the election. 

Guest posts request

 Anyone can submit a guest post describing the impact of blogging and blogs on a personal or community level. I will post them to see how they are received and then will possibly include them in my selections from the 15 years of the Daas Torah Blog

Pseudonyms can be used. They need to be submitted within next two weeks

Haredi minister condemns family who cursed IDF soldier

 https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/375312

Construction and Housing Minister Yitzhak Goldknopf (United Torah Judaism) on Wednesday morning published a statement responding to footage showing a haredi family cursing female IDF soldiers on a train.

"Anyone who humiliates another person in public has no share in the World to Come," Goldknopf said, emphasizing that this refers to "any Jew, no matter who he is."

"Even IDF soldiers are included in this rule," he added. "I condemn this behavior, which does not represent the Torah-observant community."