Subbotnik Jews of Ilyinka are Jews

Shalom.

I saw the post on your blog today regarding the Subbotnik Jews of Russia, and was simply astonished at its tone and content. With all due respect - and I do respect talmidei chachamim - I would like to bring to your attention the attached article from the haredi newspaper HaMevaser which appeared last month.

In it, Maran HaGaon HaRav Elyashiv Shlit"a is quoted as ruling that the Subbotnik Jews of the village of Ilyinka in southern Russia are "yehudim kasherim lechol davar". While HaRav Elyashiv's pesak relates specifically to Ilyinka, I humbly suggest that in light of this, your headline to the effect that "Subbotniks are not Jewish" warrants correction.

Michael Freund

Rabbi Triebitz - Development of Talmud

I would like to recommend - for the serious students - Rabbi Triebitz' website hashkafacircle.com. Especially of interest is his speculation on the development of the Talmud.

Conversion - Subbotniks are not Jewish

Recipients and Publicity comment to "Shavei Israel V - Proselytization as kiruv":

Russia's Chabad Chief Rabbinate Regards Subbotniks as Gentiles Requiring Giyur L'Chumra. Chabad Stance Opposes Shavei Israel's Lenient Attitude To Subbotniks That Wants Bring Them To Israel. Israeli Chief Rabbinate Caught In Middle.

The English language MISHPACHA magazine of 1.7.09 (11 Teves 5769) (Pages 12-13) presented a key article about: "Are the Subbotniks Full-Fledged Jews" that ran very much AGAINST the type of pro-Shavei Israel press-release self-congratulatory PR hype that was published in The Jewish Press, as posted above in The Jewish Press story of Friday, December 26, 2008 (Page 36): "Russia’s Subbotnik Jews Get a Rabbi":

ARE THE SUBBOTNIKS FULL-FLEDGED JEWS?

An estimated 15,000 Subbotniks living in southern Russia and Siberia wish to return to the traditions of their ancestors and emigrate to Israel. Are they, in fact, Jews? Are they eligible for aliyah under the Law of Return? These questions are currently up before both the Israeli Supreme Court and the Chief Rabbinate. [...]

Michael Freund, chairman of Shavei Yisrael organization, says that this part of the group is descended from geirei tzedek who converted in full accordance with halachah before the communist revolution. Many of them even learned in various yeshivos in Eastern Europe and were considered full-fledged Jews. Yet in recent years government clerks have labeled them with the same name as Shabbos-observing Christian group called “Subbotniks,” who are indeed non-Jews who never converted. According to Freund, no rabbinical or halachic authority negates the Judaism of the original group. [...]

Two years ago a delegation representing Israeli’s chief rabbi and president of the Chief rabbinical Court, Rav Shlomo Amar, traveled to Russia to verify the matter. Rabbi Tzion Boaron, who was sent to examine the issue, says that in the village of Illinka, the Subbotniks are indeed geirei tzedek who underwent conversion, and they should be brought to Eretz Yisrael. However, Rav Amar ruled, on being presented with extensive evidence, that the Subbotniks who live in Vysoky are not halachic Jews; they are not registered as Jews, and the answers they gave as to why they are not registered were not sufficient. They have no mikveh and when the members of the delegation asked to meet with the shochet, they gave him evasive excuses.[...]

The Chief Rabbinate adds that “there is no realistic way to single out specific families and definitively determine if they are the direct (daughter after daughter) descendants of converts.

The Rabbinate issued a halachic ruling which states that individual Subbotnikim who could prove their Judaism cannot be used to render a general ruling for the entire group. “It is known that at the end of the 1920s, a Chassidic rabbi named Chaim Liberman arrived in the village of Illinka, in the district of Voronezh, and established a slaughterhouse and the production of tzitzis. He provided kosher meat and talissos throughout Russia during the communist regime,” the beis din ruling states. “But it is understood that he came there because there was a whole community that was willing to help him and had an interest in having a certified rabbi. The rabbi engaged in activities that put his life at risk, and it is understood that he would accept any assistance that could help facilitate his work, but to use that as a proof that the people of Illinka were halachically Jewish is not conclusive. The fact that in the 1930s the villagers tried to register themselves as Jews in their Soviet passports does not alter anything halachically, and anyone who is considered to be the child of a Subbotnik mother must bring proof of Judaism or undergo a stringency conversion.”[...]

Sexual molestation is absolutely prohibited according to halacha.

shoshi said... You see, as far as I understand, there is no clear case in halacha against pedophila, as long as it is directed against non-related girls. In this case, however, or in the case of incest, it is a very heavy issur. So I can not understand why rabbanim would treat this issur more lightly then shmirat shabbat, etc... shoshi said...You see, you made my point: According to halacha, it is permissible to have sexual intercourse with children as young as 10.Now you say that rape is assur. But what happens if? Does he have to pay compensation? Or will he go to jail? PS: As far as the distinction between molestation and rape is concerned: molestation is any form of sexual abuse, even touching. Rape means there was penetration. So what is the halachic stance on oral rape (forced oral sex), for example??? Or on unwanted touching?

Shoshi's question comes down to - Since there does not seem to be a prohibition under the term molestation doesn't that means it is permitted?

There simple answer is that all forms of sexual molestation are prohibited and the assertion that there is no prohibition against molestation is 100% wrong!

1) If it is homosexual it is prohibited under the prohibition of homosexual behavior 2) heterosexual relationships are only permitted in the context of marriage. 3) Sexual contact - such as hugging and kissing - is also prohibited. 4) It is prohibited to do anything which arouses sexual thoughts outside of marital relations. 6) It is prohibited t to disturb another person with unwanted sexual advances. 7) A person can be killed as a rodef in making sexual advances whose punishment is kares or death by beis din. 8) one is obligated to save a person from molestation or any type of unwanted attention 6) The destruction of person psychologically has been deemed by Rav Eliashiv and Rav Sternbuch as pikuach nefesh. 9) It is prohibited to touch another person for sexual gratification. 10) It is prohibited to look at pornography or to show it to other people. 11) Sexual fantasies are prohibited. 12) Most poskim say that seduction of a minor is considered rape - so even if they agree it is prohibited. 13) Rape of a relative is incest 14) Oral sex is prohibited as zera levatala and by the prohibition against precursors of sexual activity as well as against thoughts and contact of a sexual nature. 15) Encouraging another to have sexual fantasies is forbidden.

Most of the above are Torah prohibitions The others are at least rabbinic prohibited according to all poskim. In addition any behavior which disturbs the safety or well being of the community - it is permitted to call the police. In addition the community has the right to protect itself and administer punishment - including death and disfigurement and any and all other punishment that it deems necessary to protect itself from harm.

There is absolutely no one who says that molestation is permitted. The only valid point you seem to make is that there is no prohibition of child marriages. However I haven't noticed that any of the charges of molestation today involve child marriages within the Jewish community. I would assume that it would be quickly banned by all poskim if it occurred.

Sexual Abuse - Czech castration law

CNN reports:

The Czech Republic's practice of surgically castrating convicted sex offenders is "invasive, irreversible and mutilating" and should stop immediately, the Council of Europe's Anti-Torture Committee said in a report made public Thursday.

The central European country castrated at least 94 prisoners in the 10 years up to April 2008, when investigators from the Council of Europe, a human-rights forum, visited the Czech Republic.

The Council of Europe condemned the practice as "degrading." The procedure is being performed even on first-time, non-violent offenders, such as exhibitionists, its investigation revealed.

Prisoners have to request castration under Czech law, but many fear they will be jailed for life if they do not, the investigation found. "In practically all the cases, these patients indicated that their application was at least partially instigated by fear of long-term detention," the report said.

"Some patients claimed that the treating sexologist had explicitly told them that surgical castration was the only available option to them and that refusal would mean lifelong detention." And it warned that some "significantly" mentally retarded people had been castrated. [...]

Satmar Rebbe asks Obama to help Yemeni Jews

NEW YORK (JTA) -- A leading Satmar rabbi called on President Obama to assist the Yemeni Jewish community.

At a fund-raiser for Torah study last week, Rabbi Aron Teitelbaum, the head of the Chasidic sect in Kiryas Joel, N.Y., made reference to the recent difficulties of the Yemeni Jews, according to Yeshiva World News. In recent months the community has experienced the murder of one of its prominent members, as well as an increase in verbal and physical abuse that escalated during Israel's military operation in Gaza.

Teitelbaum reminded the gathering of the impotence of American Jews to rescue Hungarian Jews during World War II, and he was quoted as saying that the Yemeni Jews' predicament differed because "today we can save them and we must do so."The Satmar leader not only beseeched Obama, in his talk and in aletter, and American Jews to get involved, but made the request toBritish Jewry as well. His reasoning was that immigration restrictionsare a little tighter in the United States following the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

Teitelbaum did not mention Israel, where 50,000 Yemeni Jews immigrated in 1949 and 1950 as part of Operation Magic Carpet. Critics accuse the Satmar community of dissuading the remaining Yemeni Jews, whose population hovers just above 300, from moving to Israel.

Rav Sternbuch - Change - Yes, you can

R' Tropper - is he good for the Jews?

While we have had some discussions about the validity of R' Tropper's approach, we have not really focused on the consequences.

R' Tropper is using geirus as a tool in kiruv. When he finds that a baal teshuva is stuck because he is married to a non-Jew he switches hats and works to have the non-Jew become a Jew. Thus he reasons it is a win win situation. The Jew becomes fully observant and his wife becomes Jewish. Their children now will add to the Jewish population instead of destroying it. The only down side, he reasons, is that the age old practice of not proselytizing needs to be bent a bit. Any problems with this he reasons are made up for by requiring the convert to adopt an Orthodox life style. Seem like a nice neat package. Why should anyone be upset with it.

Let us list the reasons.

1) He has removed the age old stigma to intermarriage. There is absolutely no consequences of intermarriage. If you ever want to legitimate it he is standing there with open arms. Of course since not all Jews want to be Orthodox - therefore he contributes to the intermarriage rate by allowing everyone to chose a non-Jewish partner without the slightest guilt or consequence. Consequences unknown. But we can reasonably assume that more Jews will intermarry with R' Tropper looking the other way - then will return to Judaism with a converted bride.

2) Let's assume that not everyone that R' Tropper converts will stay frum. Because he has such high standards and is makpid on kabbalos mitzvos - all of his converts will definitely become Jews. However the statistics from the past tell us that at least half will back slide. They will then become irreligious Jews. If he wasn't so meticulous then when the convert goes back they were never Jewish in the first place. If he wasn't so meticulous then the back sliding converts will be genuine non-Jews.

3) The consequences of having converts who are genuine Jews and were married in a genuine marriage - but who give up observance is very simple - mamzerim. Rav Moshe solved the mamzerus problem from the Reform and Conservative by saying their marriages were non valid. Similarly their converts are not valid. Not so R'Tropper's converts. However everyone of R' Tropper's converts is a potential producer of mamzerim.

4) An additional consequences in back sliding will be on the communities and families.

This is similar to the statement about Sedom. They had horrible laws - which weren't enforced until an honest judge Lot came along. It is specifically because he is makpid on keeping the laws that he is causing problems.

In sum. For R' Tropper to come along and introduce a change in the dynamic of the Jewish community he needs to show that what he is doing is beneficial. It is not enough to say that when he converts people they were frum. Rav Chaim Ozer had such a view and then 20 years later radically altered it to say that a decent beis din should not do conversions. Similarly Rav Moshe Feinstein knew all the hetirim but personally had nothing to do with geirus. What are the two, five and ten years statistics on Rabbi Troppers' converts. What is their impact on marriage and children?

Update on EJF and Aguiar - RaP

THE REAL SCANDAL: Revenge against Gumar Aguiar and covering their backs for having sanctioned the taking of tens of millions of dollars from Guma Aguiar for years is why the ten rabbis signed this letter when they realized that Guma had dumped them/EJF to get a conversion for his wife from arch-rival Rabbi Bomzer.

Ever since poster Roni/Tropper has joined the discussions on this blog with his bloodthirsty and vitriolic attacks against anyone who dares to question Tropper/EJF he has unrelentingly made Rabbi Bomzer the source of all evil because he has performed lenient conversions.

Regardless if one agrees with either the Rabbi Tropper's or Rabbi Bomzer's prescription for doing conversions, from the outset this letter of censure against Rabbi Bomzer was presented as a fait accompli without either Rabbi Bomzer being asked to give his side of the story or any other context except that which poster Roni/Tropper and the words in the letter signed by the ten rabbis, that includes Rabbi Tropper's signature on it, to the left. [remainder of post as comment on this post here ]

Abuse - Parents didn't report uncle

Nana reports: YNET

אתמול האריך בית משפט השלום בירושלים את מעצרו של הדוד, תושב מאה שערים, החשוד כי ביצע מעשים מגונים ומעשי סדום באחייניו. היום הוארך גם מעצרם של ההורים, החשודים כי לא דיווחו על ההתעללות שנמשכה שש שנים. האב סיפר בחקירתו: "התייעצתי עם רב, והוא אמר לי לא להסגיר את אחי

Save the Jews of Yemen

[DT: I would like to see some official haskomas regarding this organization]

Jersey Girl wrote:

There has been a continuous Jewish community in Yemen since the times of the First Temple, more than 2500 years ago, but today the survival of that community is in grave danger. Last December, Rabbi Masha Al-Nahiri, 30, was brutally murdered shot to death, leaving his wife and nine children. A few days later, the home of Masha Yahia was firebombed as well as having a grenade thrown at it. They were home at the time he and his wife and children had to flee for refuge, suddenly homeless. I was personally in his home for a Shabbat as he lives between the two Jewish communities in a remote area. President Ali Abdullah Saleh of Yemen, who has always treated the Jews as respected Yemenite citizens, announced that he could no longer guarantee the protection of the Jewish community.

The Yemen Times reported that President Saleh had given his directive to protect the Jews and move them to safe places in the district of Sana’a, but those directives have evaporated and there is no longer a promise of government protection. This is due to the tribal nature of a land that has stood still in time! [...]

The people there are now in fear for their lives Al-Anisi added that Yemeni Jews are afraid of the threats they receive from extremists who are protected by sheiks. "A well-known man protected by Kahlan bin Mujahed Abu Shawareb intimidates Jews in Amran,” he said. “He threatens them and he hasn’t been arrested so far despite the President's directives to arrest all those who harm Yemeni Jews. There is something going on in secret which we don’t understand in this respect!"

At this time we are begging for your help we need money desperately to resettle everyone anywhere that they will desire to go. Please make your tax deductible charitable donations out to the Yemenite Jewish Federation of America. The money is needed for shelter, food, clothing, and medical care. Anyone who desires more information on how to help may contact Ruven Schwartz at walter.schwartz@ccsicandy.com.

The checks can be personally given to Rabbi Sabri at K4 Pizza in Far Rockaway opposite kosher world. Rabbi Sabri he is the son of the Rabbi still in Yemen!

Please mail checks as well to:
Bet Midrash Shalom Teman
2915 Bayswater Ave
Far Rockaway, New York 11691

They can also be me mailed
Ruven Schwartz
1135 Dickens Street
Far Rockaway N.Y. 11691

Guma Aguiar - $500,000 to March of Living

Cloud Computing Journal

JERUSALEM, February 3 /PRNewswire/ -- The International March of the Living today announced one of the largest private donations in the organization's 21-year history, a $500,000 gift from Guma and Jamie Aguiar. The 2009 March of the Living at Auschwitz, the largest of Nazi Germany's concentration camps, will be held on April 21st, marking the 70th year since the Third Reich launched the Second World War.

Only one week earlier, Mr. Aguiar stirred international headlines through an historic $8 million donation to the aliyah (immigration to Israel) organization, Nefesh B'Nefesh, instantly establishing him as one of the Jewish World's leading philanthropists. [...[

Aguiar, founder of Leor Energy in 2003, was lauded worldwide for his stunning success in identifying one of the largest North American natural gas deposits discovered in decades. "Mr. Aguiar has a prophetic sense of vision and purpose, demonstrated precisely at a time when philanthropy is facing serious challenges," said Dr. David Machlis, Vice Chair of the International MO