Sanhedrin (36a) Rabba, son of Rava, says, and some say that it was Rabbi Hillel, son of Rabbi Valles, who says: From the days of Moses and until the days of Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi we do not find unparalleled greatness in Torah knowledge and unparalleled greatness in secular matters, including wealth and high political office, combined in one place, i.e., in a single individual.
The Gemara asks: But was there not such a person? Wasn’t there Joshua, who was unparalleled in both domains? The Gemara answers: During his time there was Elazar, who was Joshua’s equal in Torah knowledge. The Gemara asks: But wasn’t there Pinehas, who outlived Elazar? The Gemara answers: There were the Elders, who were equal to Pinehas in Torah knowledge.
The Gemara further objects: But wasn’t there Saul, who was unparalleled in both domains? The Gemara answers: There was Samuel, who was Saul’s equal in Torah knowledge. The Gemara asks: But didn’t Samuel die in Saul’s lifetime, leaving Saul the leading figure in both domains? The Gemara answers: We meant to say that from the days of Moses until the days of Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi there was no other single individual who reigned supreme in Torah and greatness for all the years that he was the leader of the Jewish people.
The Gemara asks: But wasn’t there David, who was both the greatest Torah authority and the most powerful temporal authority of his day? The Gemara answers: There was Ira the Yairite, who was David’s equal in Torah knowledge. The Gemara objects: But didn’t Ira the Yairite die in David’s lifetime? The Gemara answers: We meant to say that there was no other single individual who reigned supreme in Torah and greatness for all the years that he was the leader of the Jewish people.
The Gemara asks: But wasn’t there Solomon, who was unparalleled in both domains? The Gemara answers: During his day there was Shimi ben Gera, who was Solomon’s master in Torah knowledge. The Gemara objects: But didn’t Solomon kill him at the beginning of his reign (see I Kings, chapter 2)?
where does it suggest in the above Gemara that a Gadol might be a rasha?
ReplyDeleteI wrote a piece on this on my blog years ago.
ReplyDeleteThere is a logical fallacy - if a person learns a lot of Torah and practices a lot of the rituals then he must be a tzadik and righteous in everything. This is simply not true. Fans of this blog will recall the name "Tropper" and realize this.
Doeg HaEdomi was a "Gadol" according to Chazal. So was Achitophel. It simply isn't true that learning and practicing ben Adam l'Makom all day makes you a good person.
Can a rasha acquire enough Torah to become a gadol?
ReplyDeleteOnce a person is Gadol, do they still have a yetzer hara? It seems obvious they do. Can such a person receive a bribe or gift? Again, it is obvious that they can.
So they can also do evil - though if the start eating treif and desecrating shabbos, they would not be accepted by anyone who is still orthodox.
Again: there is a disconnect between Torah ritual practice and Torah ethical behaviour. Some "Gedolim" can be excellent in the former and lousy in the latter but it's the former that decides one's "tzaddik" status.
ReplyDeleteOr, a chassidic tzaddik has great ethical behaviour, but might have some strange ritual practices, eg davening mincha after maariv.
ReplyDeleteExcept usually when there's a perceived choice, it's the ethical behaviour that gets dropped first.
ReplyDeleteCan someone go to yeshiva and harbor evil traits and tendencies? the answer is obviously yes.
ReplyDeleteCan such a person "graduate" - and get a semicha? There is no reason why not, it basically a couple of exams.
If such a person becomes a successful and influential professional rabbi, depending on which stream he belongs to, he may be called a great one, and if he is exceptionally scholarly he will be caleld a gaon. It is entirely possible for narcissistic personalities to have intelligence and ability to succeed in their own fields. Often, they are born into a family with such traditions, so have little choice other than to become a rabbi.
Don't forget that certain psychiatric disorders might also help one get ahead in their studies. OCD, for example, if not too severe would ensure one learns every single page of Gemara perfectly. Narcissism means sitting in the front row and getting the attention of the Reshiva (a term I learned from Shababnikim!) to earn promotion.
ReplyDeleteFace it. The truly humble guy who sits in the back of the bes medrash because he doesn't want to draw attention to himself and who struggles to learn but gives it his best effort will never get anyone's notice or admiration.