https://www.businessinsider.com/american-jews-condemn-trump-for-saying-israel-is-your-country-2020-9
During an annual White House conference call to honor the upcoming High Holidays on Wednesday, Trump told American Jewish leaders, "we really appreciate you, we love your country also and thank you very much."
The president's apparent suggestion that Americans are Israelis is similar to previous remarks Trump has made and sparked outrage over, including when he told an audience of Jewish Americans that Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu is "your prime minister" and called Jews who are Democrats "disloyal."
So you disparage rav Shmuel on the one hand, for being too modern -reform, but at the same time you adopt the reform position that Jerusalem is Berlin, (or Washington, new York etc). Remember what the ohr sameach said about this kind of assimilation.
ReplyDeletenoone ever made such a claim
ReplyDeleteAmerican reform, steven weiss, have always been American first, and originally anti zionist.
ReplyDeleteAmerica is multi ethnic, white christians, irish Catholics, Italian, black, Hispanics, native American Indian, muslims, jews.
Tlaib and squad are only in it for Islamic /Palestinian cause. They don't care about democracy.
Wake up to the real world.
J street are the ones who are anti Israel.
If Trump had said this to the Irish-American community, the Italian-American community, the Japanese-American community or the Indian-American community, those groups would've loudly cheered and thanked him. But liberal Jews? How dare you link them to Israel!
ReplyDeleteyes, you wrote "ever hear the charge of dual loyalty?
ReplyDeleteTrump claimed Jews need to support him because of loyalty to Israel."
Trump is only speaking form his Biblical heart - he knows Jews are Israel, and this is galus. Just like other righteous kings such as Cyrus, who made us aware that we are Jews.
ReplyDeleteWhat was wrong with what Donald Trump said? We know that the Jewish prayer book contains prayers that all Jews be returned to the Land of Israel. Does any other group in America pray to leave America?
ReplyDeleteWell, many Christians pray about Jerusalem and Zion. Muslims pray towards mecca, and vote for biden.
ReplyDeletePalestinian americans wish to return to Palestine. Including the squad.
are they also Jews in your view?!
ReplyDeleteWow!
ReplyDeletewhat empathy able to identify with such a person!
One of the people in this article is abby stein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abby_Stein
ReplyDeleteShe was a he, but is now a transgender LGBTQ rabbi, from a good Hareidi family.
So this is the kind of spokesperson that represents American Jewry?
it is not liberal Jews but neo Nazis
ReplyDeleteyou miss the point - allow me to reiterate - dual loyalty is not something that can be used against Jews, because there are many ethnic groups who have loyalties elsewhere. Just recently the Armenians and Azerbaijanis were showing this, as were Turks, Russians etc. Oh, plenty of Russians, Chinese also in America.
ReplyDeleteYour point being?
ReplyDeleteYou clearly dont understand the charge of dual loyalty and neither does Trump or the Jews who agree with the letterr I posted
ReplyDeleteYou are naive and clearly ignorant of the nature of antisemitism
ReplyDeletetotally irrelevant!
ReplyDeleteI am surprise you seem totally unaware of elementary Jewish history. The defense but the Irish do it is totally irrelevant
ReplyDeleteclearly mistaken understanding
ReplyDeleteapart from the 10,000 Jews in Iran,
ReplyDeleteI think Jews everywhere else are free to move to Israel. perhaps the 1Jew in Yemen might not be, but he can go to via Bahrain if he chooses to.
I can't make a categorical statement about galus - since approx half the world's Jews live in chutz L'Aretz. In 2nd Temple time, some Jews remains in bavel, and Alexandria - so was galus over then?
totally relevant -
ReplyDeletewhy did many Hareidim, of all people, choose to vote for Trump?
Dual loyalty was when European populations were Aryan, and Jews were the only foreigners.
And why is that the only indicator of antisemitism? Why not include anti_[zionist]Israel attitudes as anti-semitism? Perhaps because they are so prominent in the left wing body politic.
Have you heard of AIPAC? Should it be dismantled because of dual loyalty? And the WZO? Rav Feldman was recently embarrased when his extremist position on the WZO was cut down by Rav Kanievsky.
ReplyDeleteThe Arabs amaericans have their own lobby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_lobby_in_the_United_States
do you know how it works?
ReplyDeleteWhy do right wing Americans vote for Trump, whose daughter is a Jew and her kids are Jews?
A few days ago when we discussed the Am haaretz's purproted hatred for Hachamim, you said it is like anti-semitism which is from, and only from Torah being given on Sinai! In any case, 70% of American Jews vote Democrat, and yet the Democrats still hate Jews and Israel!
your conjecture is nonsense
ReplyDeleteSo what?
ReplyDeleteNope!
ReplyDeleteElementary Jewish history is that when Jews cozy up to the political leadership bad things happen. Exactly what was the point of this call anyhow?
ReplyDeleteJoseph Orlow “Elementary Jewish history is that when Jews cozy up to the political leadership bad things happen.” Yes that happened in ancient Egypt. Adam Smith writes of its immense wealth. God arranged that Potiphar, Pharaoh’s chief steward, buys Joseph. Steward = .manage or look after (another's property).
ReplyDelete“And Abram said, Lord God, what will you give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house ובן משק ביתי הוא is this Eliezer of Damascus?” (Genesis 15:2).
“And they came near to the steward of Joseph,s house אל האיש אשר על בית יוסף, and they talked with him at the door of the house,” (Genesis 43:19).
Wow Joseph became the steward of the house of Potiphar who was the steward of Pharaoh!
“And Joseph was brought down ויוסף הורד to Egypt, and Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh’s his chief steward סריס פרעה שר הטבחים, an Egyptian איש מצרי bought him from the hand of מיד Ishmaelites who had brought him down there הורדהו שמה. The Lord was with Joseph, and he was a successful man; and he stayed in the house of his Egyptian master. And when his master saw that the Lord was with him and that the Lord lent success to everything he undertook, he took a liking to Joseph. He made him his personal attendant and put him in charge of his household ויפקדהו על ביתו, placing in his hands all that he owned וכל יש לו נתן בידו. And from the time that the Egyptian put him in charge of his household ויהי מאז הפקיד אתו בביתו and of all that he owned ועל כל אשר יש לו, the Lord blessed his house for Joseph’s sake, so that the blessing of the Lord was upon everything that he owned, in the house and in the field ובשדה. He left all that he had in Joseph’s hand ביד יוסף and, with him there, he paid attention to nothing ולא ידע אתו מאומה save the food that he ate כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל. Now ויהי Joseph was well built יפה תאר and handsome ויפה מראה.” (Genesis 39:1-6)
Right, bravo, Joseph Orlow, history does show bad happens when Jews cozy up to political leadership. Joseph seemed to welcome cozying up to the political leadership, even in Pharaoh’s dungeon. “And the keeper of the prison committed to Joseph’s hand ויתן שר בית הסהר ביד יוסף all the prisoners who were in that prison את כל האסירים אשר בבית הסהר, and he was the one to carry out everything that was done there ואת כל אשר עשים שם הוא היה עשה.” (Genesis 39:22). The bad started to happened in Egypt only when Joseph died: “Now there arose a new king arose over Egypt ויקם מלך חדש על מצרים who did not know Joseph. And he said to his people, Look הנה, the Israelite people are too many רב and too mighty ועצום for us ממנו.” (Exodus 1:8-9).
So why do you advocate allegiance to trump and republican party?!
ReplyDeleteThe reason so many frum Jews voted for Trump
ReplyDelete1) Unqualified political and moral support for Israel
2) Because, as vile a person as Trump is, he was the last bulwark against the Woke Folk who would, as a class, be a great threat to Jewish life.
at least I have a conjecture, your non-conjecture is nonsense.
ReplyDeleteDo you think you are the go to authority on anti-semitism?
Any case study you give (which you have as yet failed to) will be subject to a counter example.
We had anti-semitism in UK, head of the Labour party, but through public outrage he was deposed, like Haman.
According to your logic, nobody should have voted against Labour but only to appease the beast. And this was how the Gedolim in Europe viewed it, and of course they failed, despite the fact that in their own self defined world, they had the hotline to Hashem.
“Textbook anti-Semitism” No. Back to the parsha וישב
ReplyDelete“And it came to pass ויהי about three months after כמשלש חדשים, Judah was told ויגד ליהודה, Your daughter-in-law Tamar has played the harlot זנתה תמר כלתך; behold וגם, she is with child by harlotry. And Judah said ויאמר יהודה Bring her out הוציאוה, and let her be burned ותשרף.” (Genesis 38:24).
בראשית פרשת וישב פרק לח פסוק כד
וַיְהִי כְּמִשְׁלֹשׁ חֳדָשִׁים וַיֻּגַּד לִיהוּדָה לֵאמֹר זָנְתָה תָּמָר כַּלָּתֶךָ וְגַם הִנֵּה הָרָה לִזְנוּנִים וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוּדָה הוֹצִיאוּהָ וְתִשָּׂרֵף:
בעל הטורים בראשית פרשת וישב פרק לח פסוק כד
הוציאוה ותשרף. פירש רש"י לפי שבתו של שם היתה ובת כהן שזינתה בשריפה. והקשה הרמב"ן דמה שכתוב בת כהן שזינתה בשריפה היינו ארוסה או נשואה אבל שומרת יבם גם כהנת אינה אלא בלאו. וכי תימא מפני שהיה יבום בבני נח ואזהרתן זו היא מיתתן (סנהדרין נח ב) הא מוכח בסנהדרין (נח א) שאין יבמה נוהג בבני נח כלל. ועוד קשה דכל מיתה האמורה בבני נח אינה אלא סייף (שם נו א). ועוד מה שאמר צדקה ממני כל שכן שהיה לה להתחייב. ופירש הוא בשביל שהיה קצין ומושל בארץ והכלה אשר תזנה עליו אינה נידונית כמשפט שאר נשים הזונות, אך כמבזה את המלכות. ועל כן אמר הוציאוה ותשרף כי באו לפניו לעשות לה כל אשר יצוה, והוא חייב אותה למעלת המלכות. ועל דרך הפשט שהיה המשפט שהאשה אשר תזנה תחת אישה שמוסרים אותה לבעלה והוא דן אותה לחיים או למות כרצונו. והנה תמר היתה מיועדת לשלה בנו והיא להם כאשת איש בנימוסיהם. ורבינו יהודא החסיד פירש לא דנה אותה יהודה לשריפה אלא שישרפו לה רושם בין פניה לסימן שהיא זונה וכאשר ידע יהודה שהיה ממנו ולא היתה זונה לא עשו לה שום דבר. עוד מקשים על מה שאמר יהודה הוציאוה ותשרף והלא יהודה מלך היה ומלך לא דן ולא דנין אותו (שם יח א). ועוד בדיני נפשות מתחילין מן הצד (שם לב א). ועוד האיך היה דן על כלתו. ומתרצים שיצחק ויעקב ויהודה דנוה (שמו"ר ל יט עיין שם) והתחילו ביהודה מן הצד. ובמדרש יש ששם בעצמו דנה (תנ"י וישב ז). ואי אפשר להיות כשתדקדק בחשבון שנות דור ודור תמצא שמת כבר. ומה שאמר בע"ז (לו ב) פנוי הבא על הפנויה בית דינו של שם גזרו משום מעשה דתמר, לא שהיה קיים אלא כל בית דינו אחריו נקרא על שמו:
According to the Baal Haturim in those days the courts let the lawful husband rule as he wishes if the wife commits adultery. With Joseph out of the way Judah was the king. Hertz Chumash p. 147: “24.let her be burnt. Judah, as head of the family, has power of life and death; cf. “[But anyone with whom you find your gods he shall not live לא יחיה! In the presence of our kinsmen, point out what I have of yours and take it.” Jacob knew not ולא ידע יעקב כי that Rachel had stolen them.”] (Genesis 31:32)”
My theory. Where Judah was king, in Israel, at that time, adultery was deemed a capital crime among the gentiles. Jacob felt impossible that someone of his camps stole Laban’s idols. Easy to say for Jacob he shall not live לא יחיה! Easy for Judah to say “Bring her out הוציאוה, and let her be burned ותשרף.” The wicked wife of Potiphar claimed against Joseph---another topic. Whew the truth came. Tamar did not commit adultery. In my SCOTUS docket 20-6525 I seek the truth to come out, that I did no wrong, follow KA, Joseph Orlow, DT ? Trump and his supporters (me) seek the truth to come out that he did no wrong.
It is a simple issue - Trump lost the election - HE IS THE LOSER!
ReplyDelete