Friday, August 9, 2019

Defense of Trump typically involves redirection and ad hominem arguments and ignoring the facts

"Greatest President Since Obama"
Who wrote your snarky headline? Are you an adult? Your juvenile headline makes you look petty. But you don't realize it since, in your mind, you cannot be wrong - regardless of the cost.
You devoted an enormous amount of time trying to highlight that others are infallible. Sadly, it got to your head and you think of yourself as infallible.
What goes around comes around!

obviously conceding that trump is a sleazy con man 


Nowhere did I make this a contest between you and President Donald Trump. Why would you even go there?

However, this is all about your reporting about the President of the United States of America. It is about you smearing him. Why do you feel that it is OK for you to engage in precisely the same type of behavior that the Chicago Beis Din behaved in during the seminary fiasco?


I concede that I am not infallible - most of what I post is not mine - how about you conceding that trump is lazy incompetent and immoral? most reports about trump have a video of him stating his lies

How is reporting on Trump's lies and incompetence smearing?????!!!! that is not smearing but simply following the  directives of the Chazon Ish




40 comments :

  1. So, why don't you tell us very clearly, cogently and succinctly:

    Prior to the 2016 election, did you insinuate several times that not accepting the election results would be terrible thing? And after the election, when the candidate that you opposed won, did you publish many headlines and articles trying to paint President Trump as an illegitimate president because you all-of-a-sudden don't like the election rules (the electoral college). Did you promote those who refused to accept the election results?

    Naturally, you won't respond by redirecting and and ad hominem arguments and ignoring the facts, right? You won't accuse anyone who challenges you by saying that President Trump is their idol, right?

    You published headlines blasting the president for accusing the Obama administration of spying on him. Well, this has been acknowledged by everyone at this point. Have you ever admitted that you erred or that you the president was correct?

    For a couple of years you kept on pushing the hoax that President Trump is working for the Russian Government and/or a Russian agent. Did you ever produce any evidence? Did you ever admit that you were wrong?

    Do you only hold the president to that standard where you accuse him of wrongdoing to make a claim without evidence, yet you allowed yourself to make claims against him without evidence?

    Did you falsely accuse the Covington high school teen Nicholas Sandmann? When it became clear that you were wrong, did you admit that you were wrong?

    I can provide links to all these. There many, many more examples.

    Let's see if you answer clearly or you will redirect, toss out ad hominem arguments and ignore the facts.

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  2. Kalonymus AnonymusAugust 8, 2019 at 3:30 PM

    Obama being a bad president doesn't make Trump a good one, and vice versa.

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  3. Trump makes a speech condemning white nationalism.
    The New York Times runs a headline saying he does and then has to take it down when the left protests that it's something positive about him. Who's gone off the rails here?

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  4. The Archivist Strikes Back

    Hasn't lost that edge.

    Who is that lurks for months and years collecting ammunition? BEWARE THE ARCHIVIST!

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  5. source saying it was taken down just because it said something good about trump

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  6. your point being that you view me as dishonest or you agree trump didn't pay his bill but since I am not a fan of his it doesn't matter

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  7. you made a lot of claims without any sources

    sounds like trump claiming "people say"

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  8. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/aug/06/new-york-times-front-page-headline-changed

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  9. sounds like trump claiming "people say"

    Is this not a redirection and a ad hominem?

    you made a lot of claims without any sources

    Kindly have the civility and the decency to state what you would like a source for. Do you deny what I say you've done? All of it? I'll be glad to quote your own website.

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  10. Huh? Kindly explain yourself.

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  11. Kalonymus AnonymusAugust 8, 2019 at 7:23 PM

    he is suggesting you are ideologically biased

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  12. Your silence is deafening.

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  13. 1) Were you correct or incorrect about this? This you ever acknowledge your mistake?

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/11/as-expected-trump-seems-to-be-walking.html

    2) Were you correct or incorrect about this? This you ever acknowledge your mistake?

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/10/trumps-candidacy-despite-being-choice.html

    3) Were you correct or incorrect about this? This you ever acknowledge your mistake?


    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/10/trumps-lies-about-rigged-election-are.html

    And there you were afterward supporting the call for "popular vote".

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/11/donald-trump-is-making-strong-case-for.html

    4) Were you correct or incorrect about this? This you ever acknowledge your mistake?

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-fbi-is-trumpland-anti-clinton.html

    Naturally, you won't respond by redirecting and and ad hominem arguments and ignoring the facts, right? You won't accuse anyone who challenges you by saying that President Trump is their idol, right?

    The only problem is, you have already done this twice on this thread where you redirected, ignored the facts and resorted to ad hominem arguments.

    It's obvious to all that you are simply infallible. You are more than welcome to make a poll about this one, if you are daring enough.

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  14. why are you making this a contest between myself and trump?

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  15. sorry you get deafened so easily

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  16. Nowhere did I make this a contest between you and President Donald Trump. Why would you even go there?

    However, this is all about your reporting about the President of the United States of America. It is about you smearing him. Why do you feel that it is OK for you to engage in precisely the same type of behavior that the Chicago Beis Din behaved in during the seminary fiasco?

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  17. The term "bulverism" could be helpful to frame comments.

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  18. Trump is perfect. His getting the job was to make sure Hillary Clinton didn't. He did that perfectly. He has brilliant moments. It very well may be that he will successfully avert war on the Korean Peninsula. He keeps the promises that matter: immigration, Supreme Court Justices, etc. He projects power.

    This is a New America with a Constitution that guarantees men can marry men!!!!!! We needed a new type of President to begin the long march back to morality. And we got him.

    G-d Bless President Donald Trump.

    This country would be worse than the moral cesspool it is had Ms. Clinton made it to the Oval Office. This place would be Sodom and Gemorra.

    So hands off the Commander-in-Chief. We love him.

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  19. Joseph Orlow says: “Trump is perfect. His getting the job was to make sure Hillary Clinton didn't. He did that perfectly. He has brilliant moments. It very well may be that he will successfully avert war on the Korean Peninsula. He keeps the promises that matter: immigration, Supreme Court Justices, etc.”
    Torah thought on the fast of the 9th of Av
    Makkoth 24b
    “Once again they were coming up to Jerusalem together, and just as they came to Mount Scopus they saw a fox emerging from the Holy of Holies. They fell a-weeping and R. Akiba seemed merry. Wherefore, said they to him, are you merry? Said he: Wherefore are you weeping? Said they to him: A place of which it was once said “When the Tabernacle is to set out, the Levites shall take it down, and when the Tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up; any outsider who encroaches shall be put to death” (Numbers 1:51) is now become the haunt of foxes, and should we not weep? Said he to them: Therefore am I merry; for it is written The Lord said to me, Get yourself a large sheet and write on it in common script For Maher-shalal-hash-baz; and call reliable witnesses, the priest Uriah and Zechariah son of Jeberechiah, to witness for Me.” (Isaiah 8:1-2), “In the eighth month of the second year of Darius, this word of the Lord came to the prophet Zechariah son of Berechiah son of Iddo” (Zachariah 1:1). Now what connection has this Uriah the priest with Zechariah? Uriah lived during the times of the first Temple, while [the other,] Zechariah lived [and prophesied] during the second Temple; but Holy-Writ linked the [later] prophecy of Zechariah with the [earlier] prophecy of Uriah, In the [earlier] prophecy [in the days] of Uriah it is written “Assuredly, because of you Zion shall be plowed as a field, And Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins, And the Temple Mount A shrine in the woods” (Micah 3:12) and “Micah the Morashtite, who prophesied in the days of King Hezekiah of Judah, said to all the people of Judah: Thus said the Lord of Hosts: Zion shall be plowed as a field, Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins And the Temple Mount a shrine in the woods. Did King Hezekiah of Judah, and all Judah, put him to death? Did he not rather fear the Lord and implore the Lord, so that the Lord renounced the punishment He had decreed against them? We are about to do great injury to ourselves! There was also a man prophesying in the name of the Lord, Uriah son of Shemaiah from Kiriath-jearim, who prophesied against this city and this land the same things as Jeremiah” (Jeremiah 26:18-20). In Zechariah it is written “Thus said the Lord of Hosts: There shall yet be old men and women in the squares of Jerusalem, each with staff in hand because of their great age. And the squares of the city shall be crowded with boys and girls playing in the squares”(Zachariah 8:4-5). Thus so long as Uriah's [threatening] prophecy had not had its fulfilment, I had misgivings lest Zechariah's prophecy might not be fulfilled; now that Uriah's prophecy has been [literally] fulfilled, it is quite certain that Zechariah's prophecy also is to find its literal fulfilment. Said they to him: Akiba, you have comforted us! Akiba, you have comforted us!”
    No. I’m not comforted by Rabbi Akiva’s words.
    “Come and see what the Lord has done, how He has wrought desolation on the earth. He puts a stop to wars throughout the earth, breaking the bow, snapping the spear, consigning wagons to the flames. Desist! Realize that I am God! I dominate the nations; I dominate the earth. The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our haven. Selah.” (Psalms 46:9-12).
    We wait for God to put a stop “to wars throughout the earth, breaking the bow, snapping the spear, consigning wagons to the flames”
    My theory is that Rabbi Akiva interprets the earth הארץ as Israel contrary to the plain meaning the world. I know, many interpret every time הארץ as referring to Israel. I like better the Sages that were weeping in Makkoth 24b. I love Trump and Netanyahu.

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    ReplyDelete
  21. Kalonymus AnonymusAugust 11, 2019 at 4:57 PM

    thank you - a couple of random questions-
    1) Chazal say that anger is so bad, and smashing something in anger is akin to "idolatry". except , I have not seen this in the Torah. Anger as a reaction is a human trait - if we are angry towards rashaim, that is a G-d given trait.


    2) Rambam apparently says that the Bavli is binding becasue it was accepted as such. Well it was accepted by some, not all. even if it was accepted, so what? How does that make it binding? Why isn't the Yerushalmi binding? (I'm paraphrasing Rav David bar Hayim here).

    Also, the Bavli itself saying it is binding is not proof of its supremacy - nor does the claim that Rav Ashi heard a bat Kol! The question - how do we know if the Bavli is perfect? Perhaps Chazal made errors, after all, the Sanhedrin made or could make errors. They didn't have a Bat Kol to guide them, they relied on their human decision making.

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  22. Kalonymus Anonymus “thank you - a couple of random questions-“
    Thanks KA for the uptick. Torah thought for ואתחנן.
    “Meanwhile we stayed on in the valley near Beth-peor. And now, O Israel, give heed to the laws and rules that I am instructing you to observe, so that you may live to enter and occupy the land that the Lord, the God of your fathers, is giving you. You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I enjoin upon you. You saw with your own eyes what the Lord did in the matter of Baal-peor, that the Lord your God wiped out from among you every person who followed Baal-peor; while you, who held fast to the Lord your God, are all alive today.” (Deuteronomy 3:29-4:4).
    Why is the Torah giving us the location of Beth-peor? Isn’t it clear enough the location? “On the other side of the Jordan, in the land of Moab, Moses undertook to expound this Teaching. He said: (Deuteronomy 1:5).
    Sapirstien Chumash: “The location of the Israelite camp seems irrelevant in context. It is stated to the sin committed there, and to contrast the way God related to Israel’s sin with the way he relates to Moses’ sin (Mizrachi)”
    God buried Moses there, wow:
    “He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, near Beth-peor; and no one knows his burial place to this day. (Deuteronomy 34:6).
    מדרש תנאים לדברים פרק ג פסוק כט
    ונשב בגיא אמר להם מי גרם לנו שנשב בגיא מעשים רעים שעשינו בפעור: ד"א אמר משה לישראל ראו כמה ביניכם לביני שאני כמה תפלות ובקשות וכמה תחנונים עשיתי ונגזרה עלי גזרה שלא ליכנס לארץ אבל אתם הכעשתם לפניו ארבעים שנה במדבר שנ' (תה' צ"ה י') ארבעים שנה אקוט בדור ולא עוד אלא שגדולים שבכם משתחוים לפעור וימינו פשוטה לקבל אתכם ועתה ישראל הרי אתם חדשים כבר מחול לכם לשעבר:
    “Meanwhile we stayed on in the valley near Beth-peor. What caused us to stay in the valley? The wicked acts we did in the valley. Another opinion. Moses to Israel: See how much between you and me. See how much prayers and requests and how much pleadings I made. And [God] sentenced me not to enter the country Yet, you angered Him 40 years: “Forty years I was provoked by that generation; I thought, They are a senseless people; they would not know My ways.” (Psalms 95:10). And not only but big ones in you are bowing to peor and His hand is extended to accept you. And now Israel, thus you are renewed and already forgiven on the past.”
    Beautiful.

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  23. Kalonymus AnonymusAugust 11, 2019 at 7:31 PM

    What is "
    simply following the directives of the Chazon Ish"?What did the CI say?


    Trump is deranged , tweeting a conspiracy theory implicating Clinton in the alleged assassination of Jeffrey Epstein!

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  24. https://daattorah.blogspot.com/2014/06/chazon-ish-lashon-harah-about-gedolim.html

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  25. wow trump the adulterer gonif and compulsive liar is your role model of morality?!

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  26. Kalonymus AnonymusAugust 11, 2019 at 10:52 PM

    Thank you. Did the Chofetz Chaim disagree with him?

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  27. Kalonymus AnonymusAugust 11, 2019 at 10:55 PM

    Where does the gonif come from? Source?

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  28. https://abcnews.go.com/US/donald-trump-charity-money-pay-legal-bills-promote/story?id=55892887

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  29. the issue of anger is a dispute of Ramban and Rambam concerning why Moshe was punished for hitting the rock
    the issue of acceptance is the Kesef Mishna 2nd chapter Mamrim and see Chazon Ish rejection of that view

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  30. Kalonymus AnonymusAugust 12, 2019 at 12:24 PM

    Flimsy evidence

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  31. Kalonymus AnonymusAugust 12, 2019 at 1:58 PM

    G-d shows "anger", so we are supposed to follow His divine middot.

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  32. Daf hayomi T’mura 14b
    “And if he had found [someone] could he have written the letter? Did not R. Abba the son of R. Hiyya b. Abba report in the name of R. Johanan: Those who write the traditional teachings כתבי הלכות [are punished] [V. R. Gershom.] like those who burn the Torah [For it is forbidden to retain oral traditions which have been committed to writing, since they belong to the Oral Law (Rashi). Another explanation of Rashi: These writings are not saved on Sabbath in case of fire.], and he who learns from them [the writings] receives no reward. And R. Judah b. Nahman the Meturgeman of Resh Lakish gave the following [as exposition]: The verse says: “And the Lord said to Moses: Write down כתב לךthese commandments את הדברים האלה, for in accordance with these commandments כי על פי הדברים האלה I make ברתי a covenant ברית with you and with Israel” (Exodus 34:27). For after the tenor of these words את הדברים האלה, thus teaching you that matters received as oral traditions you are not permitted to recite from writing and that written things [Biblical passages] you are not permitted to recite from memory [Tosaf. asks how then do we recite psalms, and answers that we are only particular as regards the Pentateuch. Furthermore the restriction only applies when we are desirous of acting on behalf of others.]. And the Tanna of the School of R. Ishmael taught: Scripture says, Write down כתב לך, implying that these אלה words you may write but you may not write traditional laws! [How therefore could R. Dimi have written down the oral tradition with reference to drink-offerings?]”
    Beautiful.
    שמות פרק לד פסוק כז
    וַיֹּאמֶר יְקֹוָק אֶל מֹשֶׁה כְּתָב לְךָ אֶת הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵלֶּה כִּי עַל פִּי הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵלֶּה כָּרַתִּי אִתְּךָ בְּרִית וְאֶת יִשְׂרָאֵל
    בעל הטורים שמות פרק לד פסוק כז
    כי על פי הדברים האלה כרתי אתך ברית. אלו דברים שבעל פה (גיטין ס ב)
    Sotah 60b
    “R. Johanan. on the other hand, said that the greater part was transmitted orally and only the smaller part is contained in the written law, as it says, כי על פי הדברים האלה. But what does he make of the words, Though I write for him the major portion of my law? This is a rhetorical question: Should I have written for him the major portion of my law? [Even now] is it not accounted a strange thing for him? And what does the other make of the words, כי על פי הדברים האלה? That implies that they are difficult to master [As if they had not been written down.].”
    I notice in ואתחנן we have the 10 Commandments and the first paragraph of שמע ישראל. These are Torah laws we want non-Jews to see and follow: “Observe them faithfully, for that will be proof of your wisdom and discernment to other peoples, who on hearing of all these laws will say, Surely, that great nation is a wise and discerning people.” (Deuteronomy 4:6). Non-Jews are not supposed to follow Oral Laws which is the greater part of what Moses transmitted to us, according to R. Johanan.

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  33. I don't intend to get involved in the discussion here. I just wanted to note some sources that indicate that emulating Hashem does not necessarily apply to all of His Middos; particularly, judgment and anger.

    Rabbi Yitzchak Hutner, "Pachad Yitzchak", Shavuos, 44:8 in the name of the Maharal (Nesivis Olam, Nesiv Gemillus Chassadim, 1)
    פחד יצחק, שבועות, מאמר מד, אות ח
    דבריו של מהר"ל שהשריש בנו, כי אותה המצוה של "והלכת בדרכיו", "הוה דומה לו", "מה הוא אף אתה", לא מצאנוה כי אם בקו החסד, כגון "מה הוא רחום אף אתה רחום, מה הוא חנון אף אתה חנון" וכדומה, אבל מעולם לא מצינו מצוה זו של ההתדמות לו בקו המשפט, כי היכי דנימא "מה הוא שופט רשעים, אף אתה תהא שופט רשעים".

    Rabbi Moshe David Vali (Talmid Chaver of the Ramchal) in Sefer "Mishneh Le'melech" (Va'eschanan, p. 75)
    http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=51277&st=&pgnum=75&hilite=
    ועם זה יתורץ קושיא אחת שיש בענין ההנהגה, שמצינו שהקב"ה צוה לישראל לעשות חסד תמיד כדי לילך בדרכיו, מה הוא חנון אף אתה חנון, מה הוא רחום אף אתה רחום, וכן מצינו כמה יש להתרחק מל הכעס, וכל הכועס כאילו עובד ע"ז, ובכל זה יש להקשות, והלא הקב"ה עושה דין, והלא גם הוא כעס כמה פעמים, וכעסו הניח רושם גדול, ואם כן נראה שגם הבריות כשכועסים ועושים דין נמצא שהולכים בדרכיו יתברך. אלא במה שהקדמנו הכל מתישב יפה, שהרי הקב"ה כשהוא כועס ועושה דין אינו לנקמה ולמדה רעה ח"ו, כי לא ענה מלבו ויגה בני איש, אלא הדין עצמו שעושה הוא לתכלית חסד, כי הוא כועס כנגד הרע לסלקו מן העולם לפי שהוא מונע את החסד כפירושם ז"ל בספר הזהר על פסוק "וא-ל זועם בכל יום", ונמצא שכעסו ודינו הוא לתכלית חסד ולתכלית תיקון, מה שאין כן כעס הבריות והדין שלהם שהוא לנקמה ולמדה רעה שבהם.

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  34. Kalonymus AnonymusAugust 12, 2019 at 7:17 PM

    Thank you, chaver

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  35. No. I am the role model of morality. I and other moral people have a tool. It's call democracy. Within the limitations of that system, the democratic process, we made a move forward. We did not win the game. We did, however, make progress.

    Tearing down Donald Trump will have ramifications. It could lead to a Democrat occupying the White House. That would be bad in a tactical sense of reversing the moral trend we've started, and intrinsically, because the progressive Democrstic agenda involves promoting abortion and homosexuality.

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  36. you follow trump's propaganda that democrats are being led by their most extreme members

    Just like his nonsense that democrats hate Israel

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  37. Just don't blame me if and when the Democrats take over and cut off military spending to the Jews in Eretz Yisrael.

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  38. didn't realize how important you are - why would i blame you?!

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  39. It's an expression..."just don't blame me" is equivalent to "I told you so", but in advance, rather than in retrospect.

    So, yes, it is a kind of hubris to say it, but not quite in the sense of feeling important, but more out of self-righteous regret.

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