Tuesday, February 7, 2017

Trump Administration - "our friends in the White House "- Lists 78 'Under-reported' Terror Attacks - but ominously leaves out attacks in Israel


List includes attacks – such as the Bataclan attack and San Bernardino – that were widely covered by media. No reason was given how list was compiled, and why Israel not included.

The White House on Monday published a list of terror attacks from recent years that it claims were "under-reported" by the American media, after President Trump claimed in a speech that the media was refraining from reporting on terror attacks. The list includes 78 incidents worldwide, but notably, doesn't mention even one terror attack in Israel. 

The list published by the White House included a number of terror attacks that received wide coverage and dominated the headlines in the U.S. and around the world for days, contradicting the president's claim that the media was ignoring or downplaying terror attacks. 

For example, one event appearing on the list is the November 2015 attack in Paris which led to the death of 129 people and was the most covered news story in the world at the time. The White House did not include an explanation or any evidence to support the claim that this event did not receive wide coverage in the U.S. or international media. 

Another terror attack in Paris mentioned in the report was the attack on a Kosher supermarket in the French capital in January 2015, which occurred on the same week as the attack against the French magazine Charlie Hebdo. At the time, there were indeed complaints from French Jews that the attack on the supermarket received less attention than the attack on Charlie Hebdo, but nevertheless, it was an event that received widespread coverage in the U.S. and around the world. [...]

While the list includes dozens of attacks that were carried out in countries all across the world, it doesn't mention even one such attack against Israel, a country where dozens of stabbing, car-ramming and shooting attacks have led to the deaths of Israeli citizens, policemen and soldiers in the last two years. The administration didn't clarify on Monday how the list was composed, and why it made sense to include widely-covered events like the Paris and San Bernardino attacks but leave out any reference to Israel. 

Israeli officials and supporters of Israel have been complaining for years that the international media is downplaying or minimizing terror attacks against the Jewish state. Another frequent complaint heard from Israel has been that the headlines chosen by certain international media organizations do not accurately reflect the nature of these terror attacks. 

Unlike Israel, other Middle Eastern countries were included in the list, including Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Turkey, Kuwait, Algeria and Tunisia. Some of these attacks, such as the June 2016 attack on Ataturk International Airport in Istanbul, Turkey, dominated headlines around the world when they took place, while others, that included much less casualties, did not. 
On Tuesday morning, the Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs put out a statement saying that "The White House's criticism of Western media of the 78 terrorist attacks deserves praise." The statement went on to attack the Western media for its criticism of Egypt's security services, following their failure to prevent attacks within the country. 

On Tuesday morning, the Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs put out a statement saying that "The White House's criticism of Western media of the 78 terrorist attacks deserves praise." The statement went on to attack the Western media for its criticism of Egypt's security services, following their failure to prevent attacks within the country. [...]

85 comments :

  1. Some may may not like it, but many in the U.S. feel that attacks against Jews in Eretz Yisrael are not "terrorist" attacks, but justified "resistance". I don't think the White House subscribes to this view.

    But I think the White House realizes that adding attacks against Jews in Eretz Yisrael to the list would give the President's detractors sn opening to paint him into a corner.

    So, the smart thing to do was to carefully craft the list to keep the focus squarely on the fight against Muslims who are attacking non-Jewish targets.

    This politically expedient approach by the White House helps Jews. Although terrorist attacks in Eretz Yisrael were not listed, if and when the government in Eretz Yisrael responds to terrorist attacks, it can make a statement that their response is part of President Trump's global pushback against Islamic affiliated terror.

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  2. The grieving mother of a backpacker who was stabbed to death in Australia has criticised the White House for labelling her death a "terror attack".
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-38893253

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  3. R' Daniel,

    I am a supporter of your blog in many ways. Mostly, it is the truthfulness of your reporting that takes no sides other than the truth. In particular, your steadfast stance regarding the Kamenetsky scandals have been a breath of fresh air in a world of Sheker - or at least from people whom are too scared to say the truth. Klal Yisroel has much to benefit from your Torah related truths.

    However, your never ending obsession with President Trump is a disservice to the remainder of your blog. A "Daas Torah" blog inherently should be dealing with just that. Torah related issues, that directly address topics of Torah views such as distortions of Halacha and Jewish thought may befit that label. Continued high disrespect for the sitting President, which is purely political, does not.

    Factually, the majority of Frum Jews voted and continue to support President Trump. The President should be aware of that on many levels. From the administration's standpoint, your negative selected news articles regarding the president under the label of "Daas Torah" might misrepresent what the majority of our camp feels about supporting him. The wisdom of what you think you, or the Klal, may benefit from this I question.

    Your dislike of President Trump should have no place on your blog. In fact, I believe that it takes away from your credibility on many other topics that we mostly agree on.

    Please reconsider.

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  4. The Donald is too busy preparing the cattle cars to move the Jews from New York to the death camps being built near the Canadian border.

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  5. This is truly an odd comment?! 1st of all, if it is true that " the majority of Frum Jews voted (for) and continue to support President Trump", differing from the national average where the majority voted against him and still do not support him, then this would suggest that Trump's personality and policies are to some extent consistent with Daat Torah! And that makes it a legitimate topic on a Daat Torah blog, for the minority of Frum Jews who dis agree.

    Furthermore, why should one be more flippant about "disrespecting" a Talmid Chochom, an ehrliche yid, but tread carefully when exposing the immorality of a prosta President?

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  6. Because Israel attacks are not under reported

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  7. Since Trump included attacks that were clearly not underreported and yet mentioned nothing about anything that happened in Israel - the omission of Israel is not an oversight, nor was it an indication that all of Israel's attacks are well reported - but was clearly done intentionally for ulterior motives.

    The most likely reason is that he is using the minimizing of Israel as a way of gaining favor with the Arab countries. In short, "our friends in the White House" are willing to abandon Israel or pressure Israel - in the name of being good friends. How can Israel complain against "our good friends". Just like Bibi was made an idiot of himself to please Trump by praising the Mexican Wall. Of course Israel will tie itself into a knot to do favors for Trump - even when they clearly are not in Israel's best interests.

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  8. You make great points. But his commitment for the truth was helpful in so many other cases as well. From Tropper,

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  9. your question has been raised and answered a number of times already. A deterioriation in the concern for truth in our society, an ego maniac making up facts and churning out poorly thought out and poorly implemented programs by executive decree etc etc. is of concern for all Jews. Especially when "our fearless leader" claims to be a great friend of Israel and yet has done nothing to show it. But instead is making demands on Israel - like Bibi's support for the Mexican Wall - which are clearly not helpful to Israel. In sum, the acts of the president are simply not politics just like they are not sports or entertainment.

    Where I come from, Torah is not something which is contained in the beis medrash. Being a good Jew involves tikun olam. It requires acting intelligently and with values regarding reality.

    The fact that the majority of frum Jews voted for him and support him - is no proof that Trump is deserving of such support. Part of being a Jew is doing what is right - even if it goes against the tide of events. Remember Avraham? The majority position is not automatically true or valid or even a good idea.

    Are you afraid that Trump might discover my blog and as a result be nasty to Jews?! Do we need to cower in our houses and not express what we think because the Master will be offended?!

    In short, your question clearly indicates you have no idea of what Jewish identity is, or what a Jew is supposed to do in this world. If you want to maintain your mistaken thinking I would suggest you find something else to read - perhaps a bit of Navi.

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  10. Joe - you never cease to amaze me. You are clearly one of the brightest people who comment on this blog and at the same time you use that intelligence to make rationalization which are truly cringe worthy.

    Yes you are right that Trump is deliberately acting in a way which is not favorable to the Jews. Despite his claim that he is a great friend of Israel, he is doing things which are undermining Israel's legitimacy. He is clearly doing it to curry favor with the Arabs and other enemies of Israel.

    In short I disagree with you that this is a clever strategy to help Israel. I think your "clever" president is actually manipulating Jews such as yourself by proclaiming himself a friend but in reality doing things which are harmful for Israel. And when Jews might protest, he will answer "trust me. I am your friend" That is called being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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  11. Neither are the ones Trump mentioned. Do you think the San Bernadino, Orlando, and Paris attacks were under reported? It was all the press talked about for days.

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  12. He didn't mention many attacks against Muslims either. If Trump was British, he'd have long been accused of anti-Semitism. (The Jewish bankers, not mentioning Jews on HMD.) Or maybe not, since Netanyahu likes him. I don't think he's trying to curry favour with "Israel's Arab enemies" either. I think he is just being Trump, the injured minority, constantly attacked by the "anti-democratic liberals".

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  13. I have heard that the list is based on one by the loony-tunes conspiracy theorist Alex Jones

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  14. I just looked up it up. Trump was talking about ISIS inspired attacks. Israel hasn't had any of those.

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  15. Are you proud of the 19 "rabbis" who were arrested yesterday for their tikun olam protest of our president? Of course, tikun olam includes blocking traffic and damaging property.

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  16. Is this a serious comment? It looks more like a straw man argument

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  17. Hard to really fathom what is, and what is no,t behind many attacks. Mr. Netanyahu felt confident enough to point a finger at ISIS. https://www.google.com/amp/www.jta.org/2017/01/08/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/deadly-truck-attack-on-israeli-soldiers-isis-inspired-netanyahu-says/amp?client=safari

    But your comment is valid, too, since no evidence pinpointing ISIS and connecting the dots was offered.

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  18. Straw man? If taking on the president who was democratically elected to the most powerful position can be explained by an undefined and ambiguous concept, then asking for the exact definition and rulebook is appropriate.
    If joining sides with those who justify rioting, voter fraud and trying to overthrow (through impeachment, without any laws having been broken) a president who was democratically elected is part of tikun olam, then asking for a clear definition is appropriate. If you don't support any of the above, wouldn't this concept require it be stated clearly and unconditionally in it's own post?

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  19. 1: Yes, tikkun olam can be expressed by blocking traffic. See Selma, Alabama.
    2: Once again, you have failed to indicate where there have been any allegations of actual voter fraud of more than a couple of votes here or there.
    3: Demonstrating against the president does not mean that one is "opposing the election laws of the electoral college AFTER the fact."
    4: As for the dictionary/rulebook, sefer Yeshaya would be a good place to start.

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  20. that is a straw man argument. From wikipedia

    A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"

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  21. I would suggest you learn Shabbos (75a). A Jew needs to show intelligence and good judgment in order that Judaism be properly respected.
    Focusing on how many angels fit on the head of a pin - might be rewarding theologically - but it has nothing to do with one's responsibility as a ben Torah and a frum Jew.

    The president is so blatantly wrong - ignoring it is a demonstration of either lack of intelligence or lack of concern for one's fellow man.
    There is no halachic requirement to be more respectful of an incompetent president as long as it is not a extreme minority view.

    I assume that if I had criticized Obama or "president" Clinton - you would have no problem. It is only because Trump is claiming to be a friend of Israel that that requires swallowing the garbage he is producing?

    I would agree with your claim of respecting monarchy if that was the norm in society. However it clearly isn't and there is no requirement that Jews be silenced so as not to offend the "KING"

    I think you would have a stronger case criticizing my protests against Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky.

    In short, I strongly disagree with your claim as to what Chazal would expect for a menuval, pathological liar who goes around staring into a mirror proclaim - "Look how everybody loves me and gives me so much honor with the greatest inauguration crowd, a landslide election win" etc etc. He is a dangerous man and it is time for people like you to acknowledge it instead of saying "We living in galus and we need to accept what G-d gives us." G-d placed us in a democarcy and He expects us to use wisely the rules, rights and expectations of a responsible citizen.

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  22. So it is a Jew's right, and responsibility to tell the world that he thinks that half of the people in the United States are wrong. Nice. Wait, not only are they wrong, they are immoral bumbling fools. Saying this is also not hisgarus b'umos.

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  23. The bottom line is that you refuse to provide clear answers. Yes, it is contrary to tikun olam to join forces with people who want to overturn the will of the people, especially if it is through rioting, looting, voter fraud and deception.

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  24. https://www.google.co.il/url?q=https://he.m.wikisource.org/wiki/%25D7%259E%25D7%25A9%25D7%25A0%25D7%2594_%25D7%2590%25D7%2591%25D7%2595%25D7%25AA_%25D7%2594_%25D7%2596&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjg9OHgloDSAhXCIJoKHQQiACcQFggPMAE&usg=AFQjCNE-Zn0nAzzT9zxIYUoVs4oh_DsW-g

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  25. what is this "will of the people"? Are you really claiming that the people have said that they support everything and anything that Trump does?! Are you claiming that the "will of the people" is that every American believe every lie that Trump says?! Are you really claiming that the "will of the people" is comparable to the Will of G-d?!
    What you are saying has absolutely nothing to do with what American democracy is all about. It is applicable only to appointing a king in the Biblical sense. Do you believe that Trump has the status of KING?!

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  26. there is a difference between electing a president and accepting everything he does. Far fewer than half of the people in the U.S. actually believe Trump's lies. Far few than half of the people think he is doing a good job. Far fewer than half of the people think it is wrong to criticize his incompetence. My position is that of the majority of citizens. The shoe is on the other foot.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/27/politics/trump-approval-rating-quinnipiac-poll/

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/20/president-trump-honeymoon

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  27. Thank you for the mitzva of talmud Torah. Other than that, I am not sure what your point is.

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  28. Who is trying to overturn the will of the people with rioting? What planet are you living on? People are demonstrating against what they believe to be injustice. What is your problem with that? And once again, what rioting are you referring to? Repeating lies over and over again does not make then any more true. Please indicate where there have been riots to overthrow Trump since the first week of December.

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  29. A Jew's job is to be light among the nations, by setting a higher example of one's conduct. Society's new alleged norm of showing disrespect, should not permit us to join it. On the contrary, we have the opportunity to contrast ourselves.

    At the same time where respectable Poskim would warrant a Bracha Bi'sham Malchus upon the sighting of the president, it is inappropriate to use such language regarding him - regardless of his shortcomings (i.e. Menuvel, ego maniac etc.) Yes, I am consistent with this regarding all presidents, despite vehemently disagreeing with the past one on practically every topic, while I have submitted editorial letters to various news outlets as well.

    Again, debating and disagreeing however strongly is one thing. Unbecoming language in the public arena utilizing the label "Daas Torah" is inappropriate for the chosen nation.

    Regarding R' SK. I suppose you forgot my relatively lengthy Halachic submission regarding that topic where I strongly supported your stance with numerous sources of the Poskim. I would gladly resubmit it upon request.

    It appears that no headway is being made in our disagreement. Perhaps show our dialogue to Rav Shternbach for his opinion on the matter.

    I thank you for the opportunity to make my opinion public.

    (Constructive criticism: There is an undertone of anger and condescension in your responses. It is unnecessary, and I believe it curbs your credibility on other important issues - where we almost always agree upon.)

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  30. גם במדעך ...

    Even in your thoughts, so certainly in your publicly spoken works. Have you forgotten the Gemara of Bava Ben Buta with Hurodus?

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  31. The words Tikun Olam, give very bad vibes. They are used mostly by the most leftist elements of Jews.

    Also, as clever as anyone might be, nobody can really know at this point with certainty, that Trump is no good. There are clever people on the his side too. So who can be so sure of himself, and thereby take it into his own hands, on his own 'plaitzes' to publicly denigrate the president?

    So the best idea would probably be that instead of grand ideas of tikun olam, הלואי זאל מען זיך אליין מתקן זיין.

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  32. So here's is something that I agree with you about. That Joe is one of the brightest people who comment on this blog.

    So while you legitimately hold a position against his, for the sake of honesty, you would have to accept the possibility that he is right. If you don't accept that possibility, than that can only be because you are biased to feel that your opinion is best, because it's yours, and therefore preferred by you. That would certainly be a show of dishonesty.

    If you remove yourself from your bias, you can't be certain of your position, as it can be no more than a safeik.

    If you do in fact realize this, then it would be nice to see your tone and your words reflect this realization.

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  33. Here is a list. The order that you called immoral in a headline is supported by the majority. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/da6c15d1081d0a349fb3ba75b457d834bb618e887cf80990d51b5c43621d34e4.png

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  34. And therefore I must be wrong? I assume a similar majority approves of homosexuality and premarital sex as well as Christianity.

    My point was not regarding one measure. I was simply pointing out that Trump over all is not supported by the majority of Americans and most view him as a liar and ignorant of elementary issues such as what a strong/weak dollar is or what the murder rate is. The fact that they support some of what he does is not a contradiction.

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  35. Be my guest, explain away.

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  36. You publicly called the position of the majority of Americans immoral and stupid. You're continuously using very sharp language to challenge the person who half of the country elected as their president. There's absolutely no proof to say that they're suffering from buyer's remorse and would trade him in for Clinton or Sanders.

    To the average person who is not familiar with your blog (especially a gentile), you seem to be aligning yourself with those who support rioting, violence and all the other deplorable measures of the leftists. In fact, a commentator here by the moniker Yehoshua even defended the lawbreaking as tikun olam! Well, he also denied it somehow. How is the risk of offending so many Americans proper? How it is not dangerous? Especially if you aren't clear that you don't support any of the lawbreaking, violence etc? (As an imperfect comparison, what Rav Moshe paskened about Hatzala on Shabbos for everyone and why.)

    And most of what he's done so far is supported. Not his comments, but the people he appointed and very real policies that he advanced. The opposite is true about the policies of the leftists, which is why they have lost over 1,000 legislative seats over the past 6 years.

    Why not at least make an extra effort to be clear that you don't support any of the lawbreaking, violence etc?

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  37. A fool will remain a fool.

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  38. I have never proposed violence what about that don't you understand?

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  39. I understand that. However the average gentile who will be shown this blog will not understand that, as you never renounced it in a post.

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  40. This poll has him at a halfway approval rating. It also has him as more trusted than the media! Obviously the media is really not trusted, and rightfully so. Theecps.com

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  41. you keep insisting that rioting is so widespread that one automatically associates being against Trump and supporting rioting.
    However rioting is not widespread so there is no automatic association as you are claiming.

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  42. Don't be so down on yourself; you still have time to get educated.

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  43. דֶּרֶךְ אֱוִיל, יָשָׁר בְּעֵינָיו; וְשֹׁמֵעַ לְעֵצָה חָכָם

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  44. רָאִיתָ--אִישׁ, חָכָם בְּעֵינָיו: תִּקְוָה לִכְסִיל מִמֶּנּוּ

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  45. Do you really equate civil disobedience with rioting? If you were there back in Montgomery, I could just imagine you, with your righteous outrage: "Mrs. Parks, you are a law-breaking citizen! You are holding up traffic! Just go to the back of the bus!"
    Protesting a law that has been ruled unconstitutional by basically every judge who has heard a case about it; a law that was callous, cruel, and discriminatory; is indeed tikkun olam.

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  46. LOL
    Did you accidentally use the wrong moniker?

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  47. Ahh, so burning a limousine is justified to you and dunces like you.
    Beating people who you disagree with is justified and righteous for you and dunces like you. And there was a lot more beating and destruction, from Oakland and Berkley, all the way to NYC and plenty of places in between.

    If you disagree with a law - that 53% of Americans support, and will eventually be ruled correct by the Supreme Court - then you have a right to force all arriving travelers to be stuck in JFK? You have a right to bully Uber for providing, you know, transportation for their customers?

    You and I have nothing in common. But if you would see me, would you try to attack me because of it? If so, you don't belong in this society; you belong in a dictatorship that will keep you in line with matched brute force.

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  48. a limonsine - and that is representative of the demonstrations?! Beating people up - this was 1) a common feature of protest 2) an uncommon feature 3) It happened sometimes but was not part of the demonstration and in no characterized the demonstrations against Trump and it occurred with pro- Trump people also against the demonstrators.

    Honesty - your attacks against people who support Trump are bizarre and totally uncharacteristic of your comments on other topics. Why?

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  49. I don't think I have anything to add to what the moderator responded to this incomprehensible comment.

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  50. How come many people had the "plaitzes" to denigrate the previous President? including the PM of Israel

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  51. I don't know which planet you're speaking about.

    There was lots and lots of violence, bullying of passersby, destruction and more. Do you justify the Berkley riot? Is only a riot of the proportion of the LA riots considered significant enough? Yes, it was representative of the protest movement. 15% of them admitted that they felt that violent expressions of rage was acceptable. I have yet to see any serious condemnations of violence from the organizers and supporters. Even you refuse to condemn it! (All you were willing to say is that you don't advocate it. No condemnation anywhere similar that you have for the President.)

    Pro Trump people? This has been proven false already!

    Do you think that 1,000 instances of violence is insignificant? It's acceptable? When like-minded people fighting for the same cause refuse to condemn it, it clearly says that they think it's acceptable, or don't think it's all that bad. It's an aveira l'shmah.

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  52. Could you please stop this nonsense about Progressive and I being the same person? The moderator has already written that this is not the case. That being said, this belief of yours is as based in reality as many others, so I guess it fits.

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  53. The moderator has not written that you are different people. But this lie is par for the course for you....

    Interesting how you both post close in time, while it is still Shabbos in the US, but just finished in Israel; how you both tag team to defend eachothther; both tag team to attack others, in the same exact style; both continuously upvote each other.

    Go ahead, explain and deny away...

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  54. All I'm saying is that this is not the mitzva that Rabbi Eidenson says it is. Other than that the discussion is very broad in scope. It's a political discussion for pundits, or people sitting in the mikva with some time to kill. But not a mitzva. Nor are we instructed to do any tikun olam things other than what The Torah clearly tells us to do. The word tikun olam is commonly used by non frum Jews who justify their position by claiming that there is another set of rules for us besides The Torah. A more general good, they claim in blasphemy. They give it a name tikun olam and then no hashkafos need to be Torah based, because this isn't simple Torah, it's tikun olam. It's the broad-mindedness of the lawless and wicked. Today tikun olam calls for making mitzvos out of divrei reshus, and tomorrow to allow lgbt rights for darkay noam purposes of tikun olam. That's why Hashem gave us The Torah, in order for us to have the divine set of rules for our guidance in life, not just our boich sevaras.

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  55. Disqus indicates that they are different people

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  56. This is from the Moreh part 3, chap. 27: "ותורת האמת, אשר כבר ביארנו שהיא אחת לא יותר, והיא תורת משה רבנו, באה להועילנו שתי השלמויות גם יחד, כלומר -
    תיקון מצבי בני אדם זה עם זה בסילוק העושק ובהתנהגות במידות הטובות הנעלות, כדי שיתאפשר קיום אנשי המדינה ותמידותם בסדר אחיד, כדי שישיג כל אחד מהם את שלמותו הראשונה,
    ותיקון הדעות ומתן השקפות נכונות שבהן 17 תושג השלמות האחרונות."

    "The true Law, which as we said is one, and beside which there is no other Law, viz., the Law of our teacher Moses, has for its purpose to give us the twofold perfection. It aims first at the establishment of good mutual relations among men by removing injustice and creating the noblest feelings. In this way the people in every land are enabled to stay and continue in one condition, and every one can acquire his first perfection."

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  57. Different people, or different devices and accounts?

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  58. Where do we find direction given to us based on this idea alone without it being grounded in halachos? As far as I know, all direction is based on the fulfillment of mitzvos as taught in Shulchan Aruch etc, and syagim for those, and the tikun comes out of that and only that.

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  59. See this story, which explains how the level of support in polls on this issue is largely dependent on how the question is framed.

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/10/14552472/trump-polling-immigration-crackdown

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  60. So he is telling us some of the benefit of following the Torah. But he doesn't say that there is any other guidance besides the Torah. You can't make up things that you think will create tikun olam because that is the exact opposite of what The Rambam is saying. He is saying that by following The Torah the good will come. But the tikun olam people are saying the the good comes by following the ideas of mortals without The Torah, and they call it Torah. That is completely convoluted.

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  61. As I said before, get a life.

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  62. tikun olam means society is progressing and improving. It doesn't mean to maximize the number of mitzvos you do without regard to the consequences. Being frum at the expense of society is not tikun olam

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  63. No, not, sweetheart. It is you who appears as the angry wild man who is ranting and shouting. Good luck.

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  64. I will let the other readers decide. Enjoy your conspiracy theories.

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  65. Being frum is never at the expense of society. The Torah is perfect. The imperfection comes when people distort The Torah. That's called a chossid Shoteh, because he doesn't correctly follow the halacha. Maximizing kiyum HaTorah is the only thing that we should be doing. We don't have 2 doctrines, only 1, and it's The Torah. It is complete in every way and not missing anything.

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  66. Progressive, thank you for upvoting my comment. Just sit by and watch the sparks fly.

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  67. Maximizing kiyum haTorah witout regard to impact on society is not the only thing we should be doing

    If you can more schar reviewing only one gemora is that all that matters?!

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  68. The Torah regards impact on society. The Torah is perfect and takes care of everything. We just have to follow The Torah. We don't have a higher lever of morality that The Torah. Toras Hashem temima, meshivas nafesh, machkimas pessi, yesharim, mesamchae laiv, bara, me'iras ainayim, tehora, omedes lo'ad. You seem to not realize that. You think that keeping The Torah will still leave us lacking goodness and morality.

    Your second statement ending in '?!' is not understood by me. Who was discussing learning only one gemora? Please clarify what you mean to say.

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  69. Where does Torah regard impact on society? The Sages in each generation need to be concerned with the impact based on yashrus or tikun olam. The idea of rabbinic laws and the idea of uprooting Torah laws requires human input.
    Simply observing the mitvos is often not optimal for the well being of society. The metarules of Tikun Olam, spirit of the law and Yashrus are required.

    Bava Metzia (30b): Jerusalem was only destroyed because they insisted on following the letter of the law and they didn’t attend to the spirit of the law.

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  70. So here we go again. It's an old dispute between us. You consider yourself on the league of rishonim to decide what the spirit of the law is. (Except for when when I disagree with you on something you always ask for a source, because I'm not in the league to argue with rishonim, and therefore apparently also not with you) I say that chazal is Torah and the words of the rishonim are Torah, so they can determine the spirit of the law, but not you or me without a source. because we are simple folks full of biases, unlike the rishonim who were pure and holy with prishus from worldly biases.

    The ideas you present about tikun olam without grounding in good Torah sources, is used primarily by non frum Jews.

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  71. Harry you don't know what you are talking about - see my latest post. You are so steeped in the incorrect understanding of tikun olam that you can't understand that it in fact is a major issue from frum Jews.

    http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2017/02/torah-to-be-observed-with-guidance-of.html

    No = you don't need to be Chazal or a rishon to understand that concerns with yashrus, tikun olam and the spirit of the law is something all of us need to be concerned with. What worked well in the time of Rashi might not work in our time. What works well with your family is not necessarily going to work for my family.

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  72. The underlying principals need to be sourced. The application depends on the circumstance as you say.

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  73. The Rambam is telling us that if we are "truly" following the Torah it will result in "the establishment of good mutual relations among men by removing injustice (עושק) and creating the noblest feelings". It means we ned to be sensitive to injustice and want to see it removed. We cannot stand by and see refugees discriminated against on the basis of their ethnic or religious background and support those who discriminate against them.

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  74. The issue of immigrants is complex. We all agree that it is terrible for innocent people to be treated unjustly. But unfortunately we are all treated unjustly all of the time. For example, when I am in the airport checking in to an international flight, I assure you that I don't have any explosives and that I don't have any intention to harm anyone. But yet, I am humiliated as though I was criminal. I am made to empty out all of my pockets, publicly remove my hat, jacket shoes and belt , and sometimes be frisked. For old people this gets even more difficult and humiliating. Additionally the costs of all of that security is passed on to me. Additionally this costs me time. Why? Because sadly there are bad people out there and the people at the security in the airport have no way of knowing who's who, so innocent people pay the price. Does that mean that the security people have no compassion? No.

    This is just a single example. I can give many many such examples.

    There is unfortunately a reality that The Koran advocates for Jihad and many Muslims practice it. It's unfortunate that innocent people pay the price, but it's not out of lack of compassion. So the question is not a moral question, but a practical one, in terms of what the best approach would be to balance this dilemma.

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  75. Yes there is a need to protect society
    Nobody has said otherwise
    But Trumps Ill conceived poorly coordinated plan actually makes Americans less safe

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  76. I won't argue that, because I don't know the answer. But I see that it is a major debate in the country, so I don't think you can give an absolute statement either.

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  77. The EO was conceived in a total abnormal fashion, without proper input from the intelligence agencies, the DHS, or the DOD. It is targeting a "problem" that has not existed until now (immigrants from those countries committing terror attacks in the U.S.), and in doing so is exacerbating a real problem that we do have (homegrown citizens becoming radicalized). Almost anyone with any sense who has weighed in on this one has said that it is counter-productive in terms of security. And that is even setting aside the issue of the cruelty and callousness with which it was implemented. I would suggest reading the article linked to here, written by a security hawk.
    https://lawfareblog.com/malevolence-tempered-incompetence-trumps-horrifying-executive-order-refugees-and-visas

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  78. My filter doesn't allow me to see that article. However, although I don't know if one could say this with certainty, I don't discount the validity of your assertion. If so, then this will constitute a mistake on the part of The President. But he isn't disqualified because of it. He will learn on the job. Again, I think he wants and is trying to get it right. It's a balance. Someone who's nature veers always to caution, often takes too little action. Trump perhaps sometimes takes too much action, or too hastily. Everyone needs to tweak their act.

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  79. It is worth reading, try to get a hold of it.
    If not for the fact that Trump has repeatedly stated that he does not need to consult with others because he has a very good brain, then it would be possible that he would "learn on the job."

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  80. He is learning. He said yesterday that he is approaching the embassy move with care. I think his next executive orders will be more well prepared and organized.

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  81. And today Trump's ambassador to the U.N. directly contradicted what he said yesterday about the two-state solution, and his press secretary contradicted what he said about Flynn's dismissal, etc. etc.

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